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English Clubs Liverpool Football Club - The Kop Talks 2011, Official :Henderson SIGNED!!!

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rushmode
post May 19 2011, 01:05 PM

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To play in Europe be it Europa or EUFA is not meaningless at all. Its a trophy of europe competition. The players looks do disinterested because you know, Uncle Hodgson is the manager and the club was not doing really well either during that time. Only downside of Europa is the away games.. some place are really too far. If people thinks its not important then fair play.

EUFA feels like have a lot more prestige because before Rafa came, CL is just a competition we go to, got eliminated on group stage then relegated to EUFA cup. That time, the furthers we reach in CL is the knockout stage I think.

"We belong in CL" - saidly, no we dont.. not for 2012 season. next season when Kenny is in full gear with new signings.. crushing everyone in domestic competitions then we can say we belong in CL. Just my 2 cents
chenwfng
post May 19 2011, 01:32 PM

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Different people different opinions but my opinion is that Europa League is a must for us. You can develop the youngsters by playing them in the competition, if you win the competition, you get extra money to strengthened the club. So what is useless about the competition? I think every competition is just as important as any other.
VoiVod
post May 19 2011, 01:36 PM

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QUOTE(rushmode @ May 19 2011, 01:05 PM)
To play in Europe be it Europa or EUFA is not meaningless at all. Its a trophy of europe competition. The players looks do disinterested because you know, Uncle Hodgson is the manager and the club was not doing really well either during that time.
*
sorry to barge in, but Liverpool was knocked out off Europa at Anfield by Braga on March 17th, 11 days after beating Man United 3-1 at Anfield in the EPL.
It was well into KD's reign.
So to say that the club was not doing well at that time is also not accurate.
Duke Red
post May 19 2011, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(VoiVod @ May 19 2011, 01:36 PM)
sorry to barge in, but Liverpool was knocked out off Europa at Anfield by Braga on March 17th, 11 days after beating Man United 3-1 at Anfield in the EPL.
It was well into KD's reign.

So to say that the club was not doing well at that time is also not accurate.
*
I'm confused. He said that the club wasn't doing well during Hodgson's reign.

QUOTE
The players looks do disinterested because you know, Uncle Hodgson is the manager and the club was not doing really well either during that time. 
Mmm how's that relevant to what you're saying? You are referring to King Kenny's reign and not Hodgsons lest I'm mistaken.
VoiVod
post May 19 2011, 02:29 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ May 19 2011, 02:12 PM)
I'm confused. He said that the club wasn't doing well during Hodgson's reign.
Mmm how's that relevant to what you're saying? You are referring to King Kenny's reign and not Hodgsons lest I'm mistaken.
*
I quoted both sentences.
"To play in Europe be it Europa or EUFA is not meaningless at all. Its a trophy of europe competition. The players looks do disinterested because you know, Uncle Hodgson is the manager and the club was not doing really well either during that time."

He said that the players looked disinterested in the Europa because of Hodgson and the club wasn't doing well.

blehhh may be rushmode meant something else, but I just wanted to clarify the timeline icon_rolleyes.gif
mr_nobigdeal
post May 19 2011, 02:30 PM

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if we not qualify for Europa, at least we can concentrate on Premier League or UCL place next season.

by qualifying for Europa next season, the team will be burden by the schedule match mostly on away games.

on other side, which i agree on some of you here suggested that we can use Europa for youngster to gain experience.

Spurs either 5th or 6th place will automatically qualified for Europa.

My priority will be winning Premier League next season before SG and Carra hang their boot on the wall!


Duke Red
post May 19 2011, 02:32 PM

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QUOTE(rushmode @ May 19 2011, 01:05 PM)
To play in Europe be it Europa or EUFA is not meaningless at all. Its a trophy of europe competition. The players looks do disinterested because you know, Uncle Hodgson is the manager and the club was not doing really well either during that time. Only downside of Europa is the away games.. some place are really too far. If people thinks its not important then fair play.


I don't know if distance is a valid excuse. I guess we can agree that you get more Eastern European teams from countries like Hungary, Bulgaria, Serbia and like but relative to England, it's not that different from having to travel to Scandanavia to face Basel, F.C Copenhagen, FC Malmo and like. I mean you need to consider that Champions League teams also have to travel all the way to Russia to face the likes of Zenit St. Petersburg or CSKA Moscow. In the end, both are European competitions and travel is limited to the region. If anything, I think it's the frequency of travel. How many games does it take to win the Europa League anyway? 20? 21?

QUOTE(rushmode @ May 19 2011, 01:05 PM)
EUFA feels like have a lot more prestige because before Rafa came, CL is just a competition we go to, got eliminated on group stage then relegated to EUFA cup. That time, the furthers we reach in CL is the knockout stage I think.


Dude I'm only saying this because you mentioned it twice. You mean UEFA right? Anyway, interest in the Champions League isn't just rising amongst Liverpool fans lah. The appeal is world wide. I don't think it's anymore prestigous now and back in the days we won it 4 times. The name of the competition may have changed over time but that fact remains that it is still Europe's premiere club competition.

Like you I do cherish victories even if they don't come in top competitions. Success is relative and for a team who has finished outside the top 4 so often in the past 2 decades, winning the Europa League to me is an achievement. We need to accept that whilst we are gearing towards recovering our former glory, we aren't there just yet and while we may think we're Champions League material, our league form doesn't really reflect it. It's all relative. You can't expect Birmingham not to be happy to win their first competition since 1963 because it was only the League Cup.

QUOTE(rushmode @ May 19 2011, 01:05 PM)
"We belong in CL" - saidly, no we dont.. not for 2012 season. next season when Kenny is in full gear with new signings.. crushing everyone in domestic competitions then we can say we belong in CL. Just my 2 cents
*
Is right. If we did belong, we'd have qualified for it. Fact of the matter is that we weren't good enough over 38 games. I don't want us to sound like sore losers claiming it's where we belong when our league form tells us otherwise.

Rotuham
post May 19 2011, 02:48 PM

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The thing is fans wouldnt wanna travel to see youngsters and second string players.Its is ok if its a home game but not away.

I am hoping for us to win this weekend as well as tottenham to win so we still miss out on europa.

Our revenue wouldnt hurt much,our fanbase is global.

And i m not taking the shit excuse that it was under roy our team played bad.

U are wearing the liverpool shirt and that alone should be the motivation to give your best.

On top of that they are being paid huge wages.So no excuses for the dire performances except players themselves.
madmoz
post May 19 2011, 02:54 PM

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You are wrong. The hardcore away fans travel not to see players, not to support players even. They travel to support Liverpool FC.

What other reason would make one travel thousands of miles away from home, spend nights in cheap motels, sit in near freezing temperatures (in eastern european games) or on piss smelling terraces (almost everywhere else doh.gif) and face possibly the threat of violence against away fans?

This post has been edited by madmoz: May 19 2011, 02:57 PM
Rotuham
post May 19 2011, 03:00 PM

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QUOTE(madmoz @ May 19 2011, 02:54 PM)
You are wrong. The hardcore away fans travel not to see players, not to support players even. They travel to support Liverpool FC.

What other reason would make one travel thousands of miles away from home, spend nights in cheap motels, sit in near freezing temperatures (in eastern european games) or on piss smelling terraces (almost everywhere else doh.gif) and face possibly the threat of violence against away fans?
*
U have already given more reason for that.The welfare of fans is also important.
cherroy
post May 19 2011, 03:00 PM

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QUOTE(aressandro10 @ May 19 2011, 11:46 AM)
which is very sad... sooner or later, the biggest clubs will find no reason anymore even to even play in the local leagues and will break out to create a league of their own....
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QUOTE(aressandro10 @ May 19 2011, 11:57 AM)
i mean the once proposed breakaway European Super league by G14... UEFA manage to stop it then....but once the gap between mega-clubs and the others grew bigger and bigger, it will be harder to resist...
*
If not mistaken,
that's where or reason, the CL was born to prevent this happening.


Added on May 19, 2011, 3:01 pmFor Europa, I preferred the previous UEFA cup format.


This post has been edited by cherroy: May 19 2011, 03:01 PM
madmoz
post May 19 2011, 03:03 PM

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QUOTE(Rotuham @ May 19 2011, 03:00 PM)
U have already given more reason for that.The welfare of fans is also important.
*
You are being obtuse. This argument has nothing to do with fan welfare. You travel to far off parts of europe too for the champions league. You stay in cheap hotels even when you travel to watch games in the champions league.

This post has been edited by madmoz: May 19 2011, 03:04 PM
rushmode
post May 19 2011, 03:13 PM

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QUOTE(Rotuham @ May 18 2011, 11:25 PM)
Well thats your opinion then.Still doesnt change the fact that i think it is a useless competition and all the time i end up disappointed.
Whats worse is the players dont give a damn about playing in it.U can see the disinterested look on gerrard,reina,torres face when we played.
We belong in CL not europa. shakehead.gif
I am a fan but im not ready to call myself a fanatic.
*
oh my.. it looks like ive been misunderstood. my bad for not quoting.. anyway, i never think any competition is useless. my post is a reply to the post above. players looks disinterested because that time the mood is not fully recovered yet, kenny still finding the right tactics since Suarez is not eligible.. etc.. etc... that is all. i bet if we still in Europa now the story might be different.


QUOTE(love.beginner @ May 19 2011, 10:32 AM)
im partially agree with rotuham though, europa cup certainly lost its spark compare when it was still uefa cup. im not sure why, maybe cause CL have been promoted heavily, indirectly leading europa cup as a "loser" cup. how many of us watch porto vs braga in europa cup final anyway, im not even bothered to know who wins the cup.
*
And the UEFA cup is a reply to this. what i mean "before Rafa" is not "before" from the beginning of time.. im well aware of our 4 European cups. i just mean the 90's up till Ged. EUFA cup feels like it have more spark compare to Europa cup because it was our bread and butter.. the competition we have a chance to win. while CL during at the time was too hard for us to progress beyond knockout stages. Now since we already experienced consistent run of CL under Rafa, we no longer put high values on Europa. this is what i mean by that..

im damn proud when we won it in 2001. so winning Europa is still winning a major trophy.
Duke Red
post May 19 2011, 03:16 PM

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QUOTE(Rotuham @ May 19 2011, 02:48 PM)
The thing is fans wouldnt wanna travel to see youngsters and second string players.Its is ok if its a home game but not away.

I am hoping for us to win this weekend as well as tottenham to win so we still miss out on europa.

Our revenue wouldnt hurt much,our fanbase is global.

And i m not taking the shit excuse that it was under roy our team played bad.

U are wearing the liverpool shirt and that alone should be the motivation to give your best.

On top of that they are being paid huge wages.So no excuses for the dire performances except players themselves.
*
Whether or not it's merely an excuse to you, all evidence points towards it being true. Yes, as a professional, you should give your level best no matter what but being human, it's conceivable to believe that players play better when they're happy. Jamie Carragher is a legend and plays his heart out for us, yet he couldn't even find a way into the England setup ahead of Ledley King, Matthew Upsona and Michael Dawson.

Why the team didn't perform under Roy isn't just attributed to state of mind. His tactics were piss poor. The team already lacked motivation during Rafa's last year and it continued under Hodgson. Only after Dalglish was appointed that it picked up. Players like anyone else, require motivation. Hell as employees, we're paid to perform at our peak in the office and yet we have off days. Like us, players aren't machines.

Our revenue wouldn't hurt? Some money is better than no money and like I said earlier, winning the Europa League will amount to half what we'll get if we finish where we are in the league now. That's a fair sum. This is excluding revenue from ticket sales and TV rights. We do have a huge global fanbase which is exactly why we should capitalise on it by playing as many games as possible on TV. What? Are we going to rely on merchandise sales alone?

Read an article and here are the three main revenue streams for any football club.

QUOTE
There are currently three main revenue streams through football; match-day income, commercial deals and broadcasting deals.
http://www.footballfancast.com/2011/04/foo...revenues-add-up
During the group stages, prices for Europa tickets are what? Let's average it out at $25 pounds. Let's also only focus on home games and say we hit an average of about 80% capacity. This isn't taking into account that ticket prices grow as we progress into the group stage and so does turnout. Being conservative, that's 35,000 people mulitplied by $25 pounds which comes up to $875,000 pounds in revenue each game.

Here is an interesting discussion on .tv that you may have come across since you frequent the site.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


I can't vefiry the source of the figures but as you can see from the replies, no on is contesting them. About 40% of our total broadcast revenue from last season came from the Europa League. Not substantial? Won't hurt much? I beg to differ.

While the Europa League may not be everyone's cup of tea, it makes good business sense to be in it, and judging from the numbers above, a lot of people still stay up to watch us play, me included.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: May 19 2011, 03:19 PM
rushmode
post May 19 2011, 03:48 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ May 19 2011, 03:16 PM)
Whether or not it's merely an excuse to you, all evidence points towards it being true. Yes, as a professional, you should give your level best no matter what but being human, it's conceivable to believe that players play better when they're happy. Jamie Carragher is a legend and plays his heart out for us, yet he couldn't even find a way into the England setup ahead of Ledley King, Matthew Upsona and Michael Dawson.

Why the team didn't perform under Roy isn't just attributed to state of mind. His tactics were piss poor. The team already lacked motivation during Rafa's last year and it continued under Hodgson. Only after Dalglish was appointed that it picked up. Players like anyone else, require motivation. Hell as employees, we're paid to perform at our peak in the office and yet we have off days. Like us, players aren't machines.

Our revenue wouldn't hurt? Some money is better than no money and like I said earlier, winning the Europa League will amount to half what we'll get if we finish where we are in the league now. That's a fair sum. This is excluding revenue from ticket sales and TV rights. We do have a huge global fanbase which is exactly why we should capitalise on it by playing as many games as possible on TV. What? Are we going to rely on merchandise sales alone?

Read an article and here are the three main revenue streams for any football club.
During the group stages, prices for Europa tickets are what? Let's average it out at $25 pounds. Let's also only focus on home games and say we hit an average of about 80% capacity. This isn't taking into account that ticket prices grow as we progress into the group stage and so does turnout. Being conservative, that's 35,000 people mulitplied by $25 pounds which comes up to $875,000 pounds in revenue each game.

Here is an interesting discussion on .tv that you may have come across since you frequent the site.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


I can't vefiry the source of the figures but as you can see from the replies, no on is contesting them. About 40% of our total broadcast revenue from last season came from the Europa League. Not substantial? Won't hurt much? I beg to differ.

While the Europa League may not be everyone's cup of tea, it makes good business sense to be in it, and judging from the numbers above, a lot of people still stay up to watch us play, me included.
*
the figures shows how far other big club left us behind. like u said, missing out on euro comp will cut those broadcasting revenue down. thank god FSG replaced G&H and clear most of the debt.. otherwise who knows whats going to happen if those two clown still own the club. it also shows how desperate we need a bigger stadium. mancs and gooners earned more than twice as much..

This post has been edited by rushmode: May 19 2011, 03:48 PM
Rotuham
post May 19 2011, 04:18 PM

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Facts and figure aside,whatever lost can be compensated by entering cl following season which is more than double than europa league.

So i rather we focus on top 4 finish and depending on the players brought in we challenge for the league.

I am not too worried about revenue coz liverpool tour in asia will bring in money and i applaud this management for the progressive thinking.

the previous management under d*** parry were clowns.

Also our ambassador(like) is Lebron james who i think is currently the most popular player in NBA.

he's promoting us and this might bring in a new set of fans for liverpool from US.

We might also be scaling new heights by attracting basketball fans.I would call this a masterstroke in terms of marketing.

A couple of superstar signings like aguero or honda(asian market as announced by standard chart) will see our revenue rise nearer to likes of

real madrid and mu.

So goodluck to europa pursuit,as i think FSG have quite a deep pocket and are not beggars like Hicks and gilette.

http://www.firstregime.com/liverpool-fc-me...minority-owner/

PS:These are my own opinions and i typed it all even before i searched for the article above. icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by Rotuham: May 19 2011, 04:20 PM
Duke Red
post May 19 2011, 05:29 PM

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The stuff you mentioned about Lebron, the Asian tour will all contribute to our commercial revenue, one of the top three income streams. Revenue streams are not mutually exclusive. We still need to consider broadcast revenue and match day income, and both depend on how many games you play in a season. The more the better. Commercially speaking also, teams are able to get more funding from sponsors if they are in Europe.

Qualifying for the Champions League should indeed be our goal next season but it is no guarantee. If we forgo the Europa League and hope to qualify for the CPL and fail to do so, we'll have missed out on a fairly large sum so do we risk it? Playing in the Europa League also doesn't mean you field a bunch of youth players. We have competition at almost all positions. Flanagan, Degen, Kelly and Johnson at right back. Skrtel, Agger, Carra, Kyrgiakos and Wilson at centre back. Aurelio, Konchesky (he's still in our books), Insua and Robinson at left back. Gerrard, Shelvey, Spearing, Lucas, Mereiles and Poulsen in the middle of the park. Kuyt, Maxi, Cole and Jovanovic out wide. Carroll, Suarez, and N'Gog up front and I've not included players on the brink of playing in the first team. My point is that barring injury, we do have players good enough for the first team sitting on the bench. When I say "good enough", it's relative to the teammates they are competing with.

Even if we fielded a lineup consisting of Jones, Flanagan, Aurelio, Kyrgiakos, Agger, Shelvey, Spearing, Mereiles, Jovanovic, Cole and say Carroll, it isn't exactly a team of kids. Almost all our internationals at some level. If you ask me it will be good to give them a run in the side.

So yeah, sure the CPL is more lucrative but what I'm getting at is that playing in the Europa League doesn't mean we won't qualify for it with the squad we have.
TSsolstice818
post May 19 2011, 05:34 PM

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QUOTE(VoiVod @ May 19 2011, 01:36 PM)
sorry to barge in, but Liverpool was knocked out off Europa at Anfield by Braga on March 17th, 11 days after beating Man United 3-1 at Anfield in the EPL.
It was well into KD's reign.
So to say that the club was not doing well at that time is also not accurate.
*
I think you got the whole point wrong there.

Firstly, when rushmode was referring to being " disinterested" in Europa League, it's more point to the spirit of the team as a whole under Roy's reign.

Yes, we were knocked out by Braga after KD took control but the spirit and morale of the team was actually better than the time of Roy's reign where we keep beating teams and proceeding to the next stage. However, you pointed out that the club was actually doing well or okay that particular time after beating manutd 3-1. I think that's a little incorrect given the run we were in.

The last 5 matches up until the Braga gameS:

Wigan H 1 1 (DRAW)
Sparta P A 0 0 (DRAW)
Sparta P H 1 0 (WIN)
West Ham A 3 1 (LOSE)
Man United H 3 1 (WIN)

Braga 1st leg, we lose 0-1 on away.
The 2nd leg,we draw the game 0-0 at home.

Given the run we are in, we lose 2 games, drew 3 games and won ONLY 2 games in 7 matches... I have no idea how that is considered a decent run, let alone a great one. Beating manutd 3-1 might be a good result but one match alone cant represent what kind of form the team was in. You just forget that in previous match, we lose 3-1 to a team fighting for relegation. Morale was higher than in Roy's reign but form was terribly bad.

This post has been edited by solstice818: May 19 2011, 05:34 PM
skeleton202
post May 19 2011, 05:35 PM

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QUOTE(chenwfng @ May 19 2011, 01:32 PM)
Different people different opinions but my opinion is that Europa League is a must for us. You can develop the youngsters by playing them in the competition, if you win the competition, you get extra money to strengthened the club. So what is useless about the competition? I think every competition is just as important as any other.
*
the only prob is we hardly use a full young team during the match,, tats the prob cz we still usin at least 7-8 senior player n others on young gun.. in then end the senior gettin tired n only few youngster r improved hmm.gif
TSsolstice818
post May 19 2011, 05:38 PM

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QUOTE(skeleton202 @ May 19 2011, 05:35 PM)
the only prob is we hardly use a full young team during the match,, tats the prob cz we still usin at least 7-8 senior player n others on young gun.. in then end the senior gettin tired n only few youngster r improved  hmm.gif
*
As far as I recollect from my memories, we have young guns like Spearing, Pacheco, N'Gog, Kelly all playing in the EL matches. Then we have some fringe players like Poulsen , Cole, Jova getting matches under their belt, gaining match fitness. So i cant see any bad in that, actually.

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