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> Genneva Malaysia ?, ponzi scheme ?

Empathy
post Apr 8 2011, 05:04 AM


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Last week , a friend of mind went to this company suppose to invest in gold called Genneva Malaysia located near Jalan Kuchai Lama . The company call for 2 percent profit per month and that would make about 24 percent divident per year . My friend invest a few thousand ringgit but I'm really sceptical about this company . How the company can afford to pay such a high divident ? How do I know I'm getting the real gold bar ? Could this be another ponzi scheme ? hmm.gif


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zephyr07
post Apr 8 2011, 06:06 AM


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Good thinking TS.

When your gut is telling you something is too good to be true- it is truly is!

What you can do is get the company registration/ license number and email Bank Negara for verification.


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drewn123
post Apr 8 2011, 06:11 AM


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2% per month but the term is 6months...

And yes, you will receive the gold at hand....



This is wat i heard from my friend, kind of interested though~
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b00n
post Apr 8 2011, 07:50 PM


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Have you done a search yet?
I google and found this:
http://chiefofficers.net/888333888/cms/ind...s_estet_sdn_bhd
QUOTE
Bank Negara Malaysia Investigates Genneva Sdn Bhd and Etika Emas Estet Sdn Bhd
EdAssist 01 Wednesday 22 July 2009

The official BNM release is here: http://www.bnm.gov.my/index.php?ch=8&pg=14&ac=1874

Which was after they came out in the paper in July 15th.
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...5&sec=starprobe
QUOTE
Wednesday July 15, 2009

Genneva sells gold and is not a ponzi scheme, says firm


Thus if you want to know the credibality, pls contact BNMTELELINK as suggested in the first article

This post has been edited by b00n: Apr 8 2011, 07:52 PM
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wodenus
post Apr 9 2011, 11:01 AM


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QUOTE(Empathy @ Apr 8 2011, 05:04 AM)
Last week , a friend of mind went to this company suppose to invest in gold called Genneva Malaysia located near Jalan Kuchai Lama . The company call for 2 percent profit per month and that would make about 24 percent divident per year . My friend invest a few thousand ringgit but I'm really sceptical about this company . How the company can afford to pay such a high divident ? How do I know I'm getting the real gold bar ? Could this be another ponzi scheme ?  hmm.gif
.
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If the company can afford to do this safely.. all the banks would have no customers smile.gif

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500Kmission
post Apr 9 2011, 11:51 AM


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so which is truth? interest per year is 12% or 24%? when will you receive the gold? why do the company need to take a long period to have a gold?
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Empathy
post Apr 9 2011, 02:15 PM


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QUOTE(500Kmission @ Apr 9 2011, 11:51 AM)
so which is truth? interest per year is 12% or 24%? when will you receive the gold? why do the company need to take a long period to have a gold?
*
Current divident is 2 percent per month . You will get the gold bar once you sign up as investor . Minimum investment is 50 gram gold bar . But I'm skeptical about the gold bar being 99 percent pure or fake ?

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500Kmission
post Apr 9 2011, 02:25 PM


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QUOTE(Empathy @ Apr 9 2011, 02:15 PM)
Current divident is 2 percent per month . You will get the gold bar once you sign up as investor . Minimum investment is 50 gram gold bar . But I'm skeptical about the gold bar being 99 percent pure or fake ?

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According to u stated before, your friend have invested it, then your friend shd have the gold already, right? why dont u ask your friend take the gold to check?
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foofoosasa
post Apr 9 2011, 03:18 PM


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QUOTE(wodenus @ Apr 9 2011, 11:01 AM)
If the company can afford to do this safely.. all the banks would have no customers smile.gif
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Totally agree, the reason why they borrow money from bank is because bank most probably unwilling to lend money to them.
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Empathy
post Apr 9 2011, 04:59 PM


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QUOTE(500Kmission @ Apr 9 2011, 02:25 PM)
According to u stated before, your friend have invested it, then your friend shd have the gold already, right? why dont u ask your friend take the gold to check?
*
My friend is very confident that the gold bars he received is pure . But I'm still skeptical but I don't want to hurt his feeling asking him to check his gold bars for me . I really don't know why my friend invested more than RM 40 k in this company . I just went with him last week when he went there to invest . I'm interested to invest too ...but logically I say that the high divident rate is simply not possible to sustain in the long run ... but I could be wrong . hmm.gif

Maybe I could check with Bank Negara ...

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nendo_2008
post Apr 9 2011, 05:07 PM


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interesting scheme...can i know how much is the price per unit?
i think ur friend bought from here http://www.samudra-gv.com/index.html

This post has been edited by nendo_2008: Apr 9 2011, 05:16 PM
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Molotov Cocktail
post Apr 9 2011, 05:13 PM


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QUOTE(b00n @ Apr 8 2011, 07:50 PM)
Have you done a search yet?
I google and found this:
http://chiefofficers.net/888333888/cms/ind...s_estet_sdn_bhd

The official BNM release is here: http://www.bnm.gov.my/index.php?ch=8&pg=14&ac=1874

Which was after they came out in the paper in July 15th.
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...5&sec=starprobe
Thus if you want to know the credibality, pls contact BNMTELELINK as suggested in the first article
*
lol, don't you read this post, or u have selective sight
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deodorant
post Apr 9 2011, 06:27 PM


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QUOTE(foofoosasa @ Apr 9 2011, 03:18 PM)
Totally agree, the reason why they borrow money from bank is because bank most probably unwilling to lend money to them.

huh? they borrow from bank because bank unwilling to lend? this sentence no compute lah brother.
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Empathy
post Apr 10 2011, 03:09 AM


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QUOTE(nendo_2008 @ Apr 9 2011, 05:07 PM)
interesting scheme...can i know how much is the price per unit?
i think ur friend bought from here http://www.samudra-gv.com/index.html
*
minimum investment is 50 gram gold bar which is around rm 8,500 at the current gold price ...

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Added on April 10, 2011, 3:10 am
QUOTE(b00n @ Apr 8 2011, 07:50 PM)
Have you done a search yet?
I google and found this:
http://chiefofficers.net/888333888/cms/ind...s_estet_sdn_bhd

The official BNM release is here: http://www.bnm.gov.my/index.php?ch=8&pg=14&ac=1874

Which was after they came out in the paper in July 15th.
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...5&sec=starprobe
Thus if you want to know the credibality, pls contact BNMTELELINK as suggested in the first article
*
Thank You so much for the info ...


.


This post has been edited by Empathy: Apr 10 2011, 03:10 AM
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kuekwee
post Apr 12 2011, 12:46 AM


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2% pm with total 12% or period of 6 month i think is bullshit. i do not think there is such good deal out there. If it so true i can just borrow personal loan at 9-10% per anum. Nett i gain 12% per anum buy just investing into this investment.

imo, i think is another big scam.
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500Kmission
post Apr 12 2011, 01:03 AM


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QUOTE(Empathy @ Apr 10 2011, 03:09 AM)
minimum investment is 50 gram gold bar which is around rm 8,500 at the current gold price ...

.


Added on April 10, 2011, 3:10 am
Thank You so much for the info ...
.
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empathy,

If you have find the answer from the bank negara, pls let us know the information.

thank you
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pubmut
post Apr 12 2011, 11:25 AM


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Here's something I dug out. Read the ensuing commentaries - it's fun, vulgar and enlightening - something you'd get out of reading tabloids!

GMSB under the microscope

All I can surmise is that GMSB buys raw gold in bulk, produces them bars and sells them at below market spot prices. The commentaries will give you some info on the mechanics of trading.

Hope this helps.
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wodenus
post Apr 12 2011, 12:52 PM


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Just wait for it to collapse... smile.gif

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MNet
post Apr 12 2011, 01:32 PM


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QUOTE(kuekwee @ Apr 12 2011, 12:46 AM)
2% pm with total 12% or period of 6 month i think is bullshit. i do not think there is such good deal out there.  If it so true i can just borrow personal loan at 9-10% per anum. Nett i gain 12% per anum buy just investing into this investment.

imo, i think is another big scam.
*
yes i doin it now

take personal loan to invest
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500Kmission
post Apr 12 2011, 05:40 PM


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QUOTE(MNet @ Apr 12 2011, 01:32 PM)
yes i doin it now

take personal loan to invest
*
say the truth. are u really borrow the personal loan to invest genneva gold? If yes, pls give us the following answer,
1. what is the rate that u borrow?
2. how much you invest?
3. what is the process for this investment?
4. have u check the gold is real or not?
5. did the gold at current price really worth the price that u invest?


Added on April 12, 2011, 6:55 pm
QUOTE(pubmut @ Apr 12 2011, 11:25 AM)
Here's something I dug out. Read the ensuing commentaries - it's fun, vulgar and enlightening - something you'd get out of reading tabloids!

GMSB under the microscope

All I can surmise is that GMSB buys raw gold in bulk, produces them bars and sells them at below market spot prices. The commentaries will give you some info on the mechanics of trading.

Hope this helps.
*
which side do you believe or agree with?

This post has been edited by 500Kmission: Apr 12 2011, 06:55 PM
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vincent75
post Apr 19 2011, 08:51 PM


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Most of your answers are stated in the link below:

Genneva malaysia

Hope it helps..
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stanleyhwk
post Apr 20 2011, 07:59 AM


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One of the top scams in Malaysia is gold investment. Details provided by BNM.

The companies in this gold scam that went bust are Bestino and Public Gold ( not in anyway related to Public Bank ). Many police reports have been lodged against these two and BEstino directors are now being charged in court.

Some investors luckily are still left with the gold bars but some unlucky ones did not get any during the exchange period where money was paid but the gold bar needed few days to process. So when the companies gone bust their monies also gone with the wind and no gold bars as well.

If really interested to invest do not throw all the eggs into 1 basket or get multiple personal loans to invest in it. Too risky. bNM and SC can also anytime freeze their bank accounts and hence you will not be able to receive any dividend.

Just be careful.
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nandayryu
post Apr 20 2011, 08:07 AM


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We could be extra careful in order to choose the path of life,provided that we've enough information and clarification has been made,but never throw any words that slanders something with no fact proven/given,that could be another cases why most malaysians are afraid to startup an extra income when these rumours takes place.
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evilspeculator
post Apr 25 2011, 01:47 PM


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Invested in Genneva gold last week. Bought 2 gold wafer 50g each, and 2% returns every month for 6 months. I am holding the physical gold now.
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T630
post Apr 25 2011, 03:52 PM


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frankly, i've made 25% returns from gold trading investment since last june while the gold bar is in my possession all the time... its matter of calculated risk involved in any investment... due diligence must be done! nod.gif
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PatEagle
post Apr 26 2011, 05:17 AM


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QUOTE(vincent75 @ Apr 19 2011, 08:51 PM)
Most of your answers are stated in the link below:

Genneva malaysia

Hope it helps..
*
Hi Vincent, thanks for sharing this.

No matter what people say or write with a lot of well-meaning apprehension and caution, Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd is still operating and in fact, growing from strength to strength.

How I see Genneva Gold Investment... In a nutshell, it is actually a saving plan similar to placing your savings in Fixed Deposit. Whether the price of gold goes up or down, your capital is protected 100% with 1.5% return every month (for a tenure of 6 months); compared to FD which gives you only 2.85% PER YEAR.

There is a special promotion going on now. Read more at Genneva Gold Savings Plan.

Cheers!

Pat Lu
Hopefully retired.
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prophetjul
post Apr 26 2011, 08:00 AM


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One question: How can a product pay interest and be Syriah compliant?

Maybe the muslims can answer this?


QUOTE
Invest in Genneva Gold Bullion. Through Genneva’s unique wealth sharing platform, you are not only the owner of the gold bullion in hand, you make 1.5% cash return every month for 6 months under Genneva’s Syariah compliant product plan.

It is similar to placing your savings in Fixed Deposit. Whether the price of gold goes up or down, your capital is protected 100% with 1.5% return every month (for a tenure of 6 months); compared to FD which gives you only 2.85% PER YEAR.

In addition, at the end of each tenure (6 months) you can return the Gold Bullion (buy-back guarantee) at the same price you bought the gold at. This means a 100% capital protection.


http://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/about/
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hivemy
post Apr 26 2011, 04:09 PM


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Was just introduced to this today.

Searching for the details and found only this far.

Can someone who has joined this recently give some comment?


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evilspeculator
post Apr 26 2011, 04:36 PM


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I have a few gold wafers in my hand now. Hearsay Genneva buy gold in bulk at price around RM140/gram. Thats why they can give us the 2% interest for 6 months. And also maybe they use our money to invest in other business as well.
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hivemy
post Apr 26 2011, 09:03 PM


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how long have u joined?

based on my understanding, contract is 6 months. what are the odds of changes of contract after 6 months? very skeptical... 18% profit a year sounds too good to be true.

This post has been edited by hivemy: Apr 26 2011, 09:07 PM
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penangmee
post Apr 26 2011, 11:41 PM


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QUOTE(evilspeculator @ Apr 26 2011, 04:36 PM)
I have a few gold wafers in my hand now. Hearsay Genneva buy gold in bulk at price around RM140/gram. Thats why they can give us the 2% interest for 6 months. And also maybe they use our money to invest in other business as well.
*
Why pay u 2 % per month ? Why not just sell to market and use it to invest in the other business. Save the 2% per month. Extra profit for self.
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PatEagle
post Apr 27 2011, 04:23 AM


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QUOTE(hivemy @ Apr 26 2011, 04:09 PM)
Was just introduced to this today.

Searching for the details and found only this far.

Can someone who has joined this recently give some comment?
*

Hi hivemy,

For an introduction, please read my open letter and follow the links within at http://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/2011/03/0...-my-gold-goose/

Then, read Genneva Gold Savings Plan at http://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/about/

Since yesterday, I've been participating at the Topic: Buying Gold As Investment V2, 2011 Gold Rush From Oil Hype and answered other questions at http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=41882307 -- scroll up the page to view more of my postings there.

Hope this helps. Cheers!


Added on April 27, 2011, 4:54 am
QUOTE(hivemy @ Apr 26 2011, 09:03 PM)
how long have u joined?

based on my understanding, contract is 6 months. what are the odds of changes of contract after 6 months? very skeptical... 18% profit a year sounds too good to be true.
*

I only joined in January this year though I knew about Genneva Gold through my uncle who started off more than 2 years ago, and have been reaping huge benefits that has served as his retirement monies, while at the same time preserving his own money in the form of the Gold Bullion which he keeps in his safe possession.

Similar to you, I was most skeptical till two of my friends, who are even more skeptical than I, bought 2KG of gold last December. The company has had a colourful and eventful history due to laws of this country and threat to the foundation of the banking industry. Then, on 15 December 2010, Genneva Malaysia launched its Syariah platform... the rest is history.

I'll be happy to meet you at Genneva's office to show you around and to answer any questions you may have. Just buy me coffee. biggrin.gif

Here's the address: Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd, 52A-1 Jalan Kuchai Maju 6, Off Jalan Kuchai Lama, 58200 Kuala Lumpur.

Cheers!

This post has been edited by PatEagle: Apr 27 2011, 08:10 PM
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PatEagle
post Apr 27 2011, 08:11 PM


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BTW, for those who want to calculate the potential returns per month on your investment in Genneva Gold Bullion,
check out the Genneva Malaysia - My Gold Goose Calculator at http://rayma.com.my/GennevaGold/Calc.html

For the current price of Genneva Gold - see bottom right hand corner at http://www.goldbeam.org.my/

Have fun! Cheers!
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evilspeculator
post Apr 28 2011, 12:21 PM


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I am getting my 2% cheque monthly. 2% monthly maybe its their business model. The gold wafer they are selling maybe need less workmanship thats why can get extra profit. I don't know for sure what is their business model, but if i am scam in this 6 months, i will update ya all.
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PatEagle
post Apr 29 2011, 04:21 AM


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QUOTE(evilspeculator @ Apr 28 2011, 12:21 PM)
I am getting my 2% cheque monthly. 2% monthly maybe its their business model. The gold wafer they are selling maybe need less workmanship thats why can get extra profit. I don't know for sure what is their business model, but if i am scam in this 6 months, i will update ya all.
*

Same here. I'm happy with my returns every month. Better than investing in the volatile stock market. thumbup.gif

I think the root issue of the matter why people are afraid to invest in Genneva Gold is because of in-the-box thinking:

1. No other investment instruments offer such a high return every month as seen at http://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/about/ -- People Stuck in Old Economy Mindsets (i.e. old conservative ways of making money).

2. “I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money”. — Mark Twain

3. “I do not want to feel stupid. I do not want to be called strange and weird… I listen to a few people that everybody else listens to. Then, if I am wrong I don’t feel stupid because everybody else made the same mistake.” Watch video at http://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/2011/04/1...-dont-buy-gold/ tongue.gif
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prophetjul
post Apr 29 2011, 07:41 AM


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Since its related to Gold, for those who are interested in this scheme, better read this thread as well before making yer decision.

Again, Caveat Emptor!

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1771874/+300
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b00n
post Apr 29 2011, 10:10 PM


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Court hearing is on 22nd apr (final), so anyone got any infor on that?
http://www.bnm.gov.my/microsites/fraudalert/0301_status.htm
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PatEagle
post Apr 30 2011, 04:59 AM


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QUOTE(b00n @ Apr 29 2011, 10:10 PM)
Court hearing is on 22nd apr (final), so anyone got any infor on that?
http://www.bnm.gov.my/microsites/fraudalert/0301_status.htm
*

Oppps, replied you at http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1771874/+320# - it would be more relevant here as it's related to the specific topic of discussion. Don't know how to move it here, so excuse me if I repost my entire reply here...

Believe it or not, I heard that the prosecutors couldn't find witnesses to charge the defendants for money-laundering. Look out for the next hearing date. All are invited to attend.

Meantime, please note that Genneva Sdn Bhd and Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd are two separate entities.

The directors of Genneva Sdn Bhd were under suspicion of conducting illegal deposit taking activities in breach of Banking and Financial Institutions Act 1989 (BAFIA) and Section 4(1) of Anti-Money Laundering and Anti-Terrorism Financing Act 2001 (AMLATFA) and were subsequently charged. However, all pleaded NOT GUILTY and claimed trial as seen at http://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/2011/04/1...ectors-charged/

Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd has fulfilled all Bank Negara’s requirements as a scheduled Institution under Section 21(1) of the Banking and Financial Institution Act, 1989 (BAFIA); and classified under First Schedule of Anti-Money Laundering and Anti-Terrorism Financing Act, 2001(AMLA) as a “Reporting Institution”.

In addition, GMSB's gold products are Syariah compliant; policy governed by the Syariah Committee.

Just reread the following articles at Genneva Directors Charged
The Star article, Thursday March 17, 2011: Trio claim trial to charge of illegal deposit-taking
QUOTE
On Oct 14 last year, the three men were charged with 707 counts of money laundering involving RM550mil.

The Star, Friday October 15, 2010: Four hit with 796 charges
QUOTE
The directors of Genneva Sdn Bhd – Ng Poh Weng, 60, face 263 charges involving RM185mil while Marcus Yee Yuen Seng, 58, faces 234 charges amounting to RM153mil and Chin Wai Leong, 34, face 210 charges involving RM212mil.

Former director Liew Chee Wah, 56, faces 89 charges involving RM31mil.

The four men had allegedly issued and cashed 364 cheques from illegal proceeds at a bank in Jalan Ampang between July 20, 2007, and Dec 6 last year.

And under Geneva Sdn Bhd, 21 July 2009 at http://www.bnm.gov.my/microsites/fraudalert/0301_status.htm
QUOTE
The raids on these companies were conducted at their premises in Kuala Lumpur following information received from members of the public. Relevant assets and documents of the company were seized for the purpose of investigation.

With 707 counts of money laundering and 796 charges...
1. Don't you find it odd the prosecutors can't find witnesses since they have all the relevant documents?
2. Where are the witnesses, the members of the public who complained? Could they be competitors?
hmm.gif


Added on April 30, 2011, 4:43 amBTW, I had the pleasure of meeting Genneva Founding Member Dato' Ng Poh Weng on many occasions. Someone who is most unassuming, humble and helpful. I respect him very much.

FYI, Dato' Ng was ex-Poh Kong co-founder with more than 50 years of knowledge and experience in the gold industry; started in the gold industry with family who owns a gold factory equipped with manufacturing, retailing and refining gold... hence my confidence in investing in Genneva Gold and would recommend it to everyone based on my first-hand experience dealing with Dato Ng and his dedicated and committed management team.
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flight
post Apr 30 2011, 07:12 AM


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QUOTE(PatEagle @ Apr 30 2011, 04:59 AM)
Oppps, replied you at http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1771874/+320# - it would be more relevant here as it's related to the specific topic of discussion. Don't know how to move it here, so excuse me if I repost my entire reply here...

Believe it or not, I heard that the prosecutors couldn't find witnesses to charge the defendants for money-laundering. Look out for the next hearing date. All are invited to attend.

Meantime, please note that Genneva Sdn Bhd and Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd are two separate entities.

The directors of Genneva Sdn Bhd were under suspicion of conducting illegal deposit taking activities in breach of Banking and Financial Institutions Act 1989 (BAFIA) and Section 4(1) of Anti-Money Laundering and Anti-Terrorism Financing Act 2001 (AMLATFA) and were subsequently charged. However, all pleaded NOT GUILTY and claimed trial as seen at http://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/2011/04/1...ectors-charged/

Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd has fulfilled all Bank Negara’s requirements as a scheduled Institution under Section 21(1) of the Banking and Financial Institution Act, 1989 (BAFIA); and classified under First Schedule of Anti-Money Laundering and Anti-Terrorism Financing Act, 2001(AMLA) as a “Reporting Institution”.

In addition, GMSB's gold products are Syariah compliant; policy governed by the Syariah Committee.

Just reread the following articles at Genneva Directors Charged
The Star article, Thursday March 17, 2011: Trio claim trial to charge of illegal deposit-taking

The Star, Friday October 15, 2010: Four hit with 796 charges

And under Geneva Sdn Bhd, 21 July 2009 at http://www.bnm.gov.my/microsites/fraudalert/0301_status.htm

With 707 counts of money laundering and 796 charges...
1.  Don't you find it odd the prosecutors can't find witnesses since they have all the relevant documents?
2.  Where are the witnesses, the members of the public who complained? Could they be competitors?
hmm.gif


Added on April 30, 2011, 4:43 amBTW, I had the pleasure of meeting Genneva Founding Member Dato' Ng Poh Weng on many occasions. Someone who is most unassuming, humble and helpful. I respect him very much.

FYI, Dato' Ng was ex-Poh Kong co-founder with more than 50 years of knowledge and experience in the gold industry; started in the gold industry with family who owns a gold factory equipped with manufacturing, retailing and refining gold... hence my confidence in investing in Genneva Gold and would recommend it to everyone based on my first-hand experience dealing with Dato Ng and his dedicated and committed management team.
*
ur going to lose all ur money...


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post May 1 2011, 12:21 PM


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QUOTE(PatEagle @ Apr 30 2011, 04:59 AM)
Oppps, replied you at http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1771874/+320# - it would be more relevant here as it's related to the specific topic of discussion. Don't know how to move it here, so excuse me if I repost my entire reply here...

Believe it or not, I heard that the prosecutors couldn't find witnesses to charge the defendants for money-laundering. Look out for the next hearing date. All are invited to attend.

Meantime, please note that Genneva Sdn Bhd and Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd are two separate entities.

The directors of Genneva Sdn Bhd were under suspicion of conducting illegal deposit taking activities in breach of Banking and Financial Institutions Act 1989 (BAFIA) and Section 4(1) of Anti-Money Laundering and Anti-Terrorism Financing Act 2001 (AMLATFA) and were subsequently charged. However, all pleaded NOT GUILTY and claimed trial as seen at http://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/2011/04/1...ectors-charged/

Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd has fulfilled all Bank Negara’s requirements as a scheduled Institution under Section 21(1) of the Banking and Financial Institution Act, 1989 (BAFIA); and classified under First Schedule of Anti-Money Laundering and Anti-Terrorism Financing Act, 2001(AMLA) as a “Reporting Institution”.

In addition, GMSB's gold products are Syariah compliant; policy governed by the Syariah Committee.

Just reread the following articles at Genneva Directors Charged
The Star article, Thursday March 17, 2011: Trio claim trial to charge of illegal deposit-taking

The Star, Friday October 15, 2010: Four hit with 796 charges

And under Geneva Sdn Bhd, 21 July 2009 at http://www.bnm.gov.my/microsites/fraudalert/0301_status.htm

With 707 counts of money laundering and 796 charges...
1.  Don't you find it odd the prosecutors can't find witnesses since they have all the relevant documents?
2.  Where are the witnesses, the members of the public who complained? Could they be competitors?
hmm.gif


Added on April 30, 2011, 4:43 amBTW, I had the pleasure of meeting Genneva Founding Member Dato' Ng Poh Weng on many occasions. Someone who is most unassuming, humble and helpful. I respect him very much.

FYI, Dato' Ng was ex-Poh Kong co-founder with more than 50 years of knowledge and experience in the gold industry; started in the gold industry with family who owns a gold factory equipped with manufacturing, retailing and refining gold... hence my confidence in investing in Genneva Gold and would recommend it to everyone based on my first-hand experience dealing with Dato Ng and his dedicated and committed management team.
*
I will be more than happy to invest if he can tell me how he intends to make the 18% that he promises everyone, and why he does not just get a loan from a bank.

This post has been edited by wodenus: May 1 2011, 01:47 PM
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post May 3 2011, 11:39 AM


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QUOTE(500Kmission @ Apr 9 2011, 02:25 PM)
According to u stated before, your friend have invested it, then your friend shd have the gold already, right? why dont u ask your friend take the gold to check?
*
Some goldsmiths when they check the purity of the gold, they need to scratch the gold..

According to my friend who is the consultant, if the gold is scratched, they will not want to buy back the gold..
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post May 3 2011, 11:52 AM


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QUOTE(wodenus @ May 1 2011, 12:21 PM)
I will be more than happy to invest if he can tell me how he intends to make the 18% that he promises everyone, and why he does not just get a loan from a bank.
*

Good question. The answer, Genneva's gold price is about 25% higher than price of gold quoted in the international market.

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PatEagle
post May 3 2011, 12:03 PM


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QUOTE(smartinvestor01 @ May 3 2011, 11:39 AM)
Some goldsmiths when they check the purity of the gold, they need to scratch the gold..

According to my friend who is the consultant, if the gold is scratched, they will not want to buy back the gold..
*

Scratching the surface would not help determine the purity of gold. biggrin.gif
Of course no one would buy or buy back gold bullion that is deeply scratched.
There are scientific non-destructive testing methods. One goes to a chemist, an assayer, as I've done. See http://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/2011/04/1...ood-to-be-true/

This post has been edited by PatEagle: May 3 2011, 12:07 PM
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post May 3 2011, 05:16 PM


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QUOTE(PatEagle @ May 3 2011, 11:52 AM)
Good question. The answer, Genneva's gold price is about 25% higher than price of gold quoted in the international market.
*
...Not a bad business. Selling 25% higher, and give back 18% to investor. Profit 7%.
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post May 3 2011, 05:58 PM


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QUOTE(edyek @ May 3 2011, 05:16 PM)
...Not a bad business. Selling 25% higher, and give back 18% to investor. Profit 7%.
*

Precisely. biggrin.gif

Genneva’s gold price is about 5% difference compared to goldsmith shops, e.g. Poh Kong and Tomei. Goldsmith shops don’t give the same assured returns every month, so may as well buy Genneva Gold... lots of retirees are in it... and so am I, hopefully can claim to be 'retired' soon. tongue.gif

BTW, besides being an investor, you can also be a Consultant to sell Genneva Gold. As a consultant, you earn 0.5% of your clients' purchase price (commission paid every month too), AND for as long as they continue to renew their contract every 6 months. Pretty good as a second source of income or as a main source income. You reap what you sow. Simple as that. smile.gif

Cheers and have a pleasant evening.


Added on May 3, 2011, 6:01 pmBTW, I like your signature. The same applies to gold. biggrin.gif
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Here, share my favourite quotes. Truth be told...
1. “GOLD is still the ultimate store of wealth. It’s the world’s only true money.” — Mark Nestmann

2. "Gold and economic freedom are inseparable." — Alan Greenspan

3. "The desire of gold is not for gold. It is for the means of freedom and benefit." — Ralph Waldo Emerson

4. "Civilized countries generally adopt gold or silver or both as money." — Alfred Marshall

This post has been edited by PatEagle: May 3 2011, 06:06 PM
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post May 4 2011, 10:29 AM


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QUOTE(edyek @ May 3 2011, 05:16 PM)
...Not a bad business. Selling 25% higher, and give back 18% to investor. Profit 7%.
*
But every 6 months the investor has the option to sell back the gold bar to Genneva at the actual price they paid . Example : if you pay RM 9000 for a 50 gram gold bar , you can sell back the 50 gram gold bar at the same price to Genneva 6 months later . So i cannot see how Genneva can generate profit to pay the investor 18 percent per year . hmm.gif

.
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post May 4 2011, 12:03 PM


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QUOTE(Empathy @ May 4 2011, 10:29 AM)
But every 6 months the investor has the option to sell back the gold bar to Genneva at the actual price they paid . Example : if you pay RM 9000 for a 50 gram gold bar , you can sell back the 50 gram gold bar at the same price to Genneva 6 months later . So i cannot see how Genneva can generate profit to pay the investor 18 percent per year .  hmm.gif

.
*
They will make profit if the price of gold goes up. They can easily convince people because Gold price is steadily climbing. Thus they buy back old gold and sell it at a higher price.

This will only work when Gold price is on the up trend. I think no one did ask the question of the opposite; i.e. if Gold price drops. What happens then?
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PatEagle
post May 4 2011, 01:16 PM


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QUOTE(b00n @ May 4 2011, 12:03 PM)
They will make profit if the price of gold goes up. They can easily convince people because Gold price is steadily climbing. Thus they buy back old gold and sell it at a higher price.

This will only work when Gold price is on the up trend. I think no one did ask the question of the opposite; i.e. if Gold price drops. What happens then?
*

Good questions Empathy and b00n smile.gif
Below is the explanation...
QUOTE
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 8:03 PM
Subject: Long term sustainability of Genneva's Gold biz

Please see attached spreadsheet which provides you in-depth analysis of the business model of Genneva Syariah Gold compliant product.

Do note that although mathematically, it would seem that Genneva is giving its investors 24% per annum, but we need to understand that there are few factors to remember.

1. Genneva pays us 2% every month over 6 months tenure, but use our cash up-front for their business. Its cash flow, and they will hedge our cash with gold inventory, which they can sell on the next month (hopefully at higher price, which makes them even more profits; clearly shown in the spreadsheet).

2. Tenure is for 6 months only, and investors need to do re-balancing, which makes the company another round of profits.

3. A certain percentage of investors will surrender their gold & redeem for their original invested amounts. This gold (inventory) will be sold once again to new investors for another round of profit. Company makes even more profit when gold price goes up.

The attach spreadsheet even shows that the company continues to make positive cash flow even when the price of Gold drops. The scenario in the spreadsheet assumes price of gold drops by 16% from 173 to 145 over several months.

Do note that most analyst and experts including those from reputable banks like Public, CIMB and Maybank estimates that Gold price will rise by 20%-25% this year. And we know that gold was up by 25% last year (2010). So, we have to ask ourselves if Gold will drop by 16%...

Lastly, do remember that all the time, the precious 999 pure gold bar is in our hands & possession. And we can always sell it in the open market. Even if Genneva is not around. So our investment is always protected. Its just that we’ll stop receiving the wonderful 2% per month!   :-)

Let me know if you have any other questions. I’ll answer wherever I can. Alternatively, we can also meet representatives of the company in KL.

Contents © Copyright: My Gold Goose Group.

Serious investors and consultant-wannabes are most welcomed to view the spreadsheet by making an appointment to meet us at Genneva's office or nearby cafe on any working day within office hours...

I've a life too, besides answering questions and concerns related to Genneva Gold. laugh.gif

This post has been edited by PatEagle: May 12 2011, 03:28 AM
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Lycan
post May 12 2011, 11:27 AM


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The most prominent person in Msia also endose this investment .. Get real mad.gif mad.gif .. He once run our country rclxub.gif shocking.gif


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QUOTE(hivemy @ Apr 26 2011, 05:09 PM)
Was just introduced to this today.

Searching for the details and found only this far.

Can someone who has joined this recently give some comment?
*

Added on May 12, 2011, 11:29 amSo far the directors are still operating . Seem they are above the law shakehead.gif


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QUOTE(stanleyhwk @ Apr 20 2011, 08:59 AM)
One of the top scams in Malaysia is gold investment. Details provided by BNM.

The companies in this gold scam that went bust are Bestino and Public Gold ( not in anyway related to Public Bank ). Many police reports have been lodged against these two and BEstino directors are now being charged in court.

Some investors luckily are still left with the gold bars but some unlucky ones did not get any during the exchange period where money was paid but the gold bar needed few days to process. So when the companies gone bust their monies also gone with the wind and no gold bars as well.

If really interested to invest do not throw all the eggs into 1 basket or get multiple personal loans to invest in it. Too risky. bNM and SC can also anytime freeze their bank accounts and hence you will not be able to receive any dividend.

Just be careful.
*

Added on May 12, 2011, 11:34 amthe person who will lost all thier money is the latecommer who join the purchase just before the co collapse

QUOTE(flight @ Apr 30 2011, 08:12 AM)
ur going to lose all ur money...
*

Added on May 12, 2011, 11:38 amwhen they start the co the use branded such UOB or PAMP bar to give to thier investor . Latter they will change to thier own bar . Now the issue is the purity of those bar.

If u trade those unknown Gold bar to a goldsmiths , u tend to lost some value frm range 25 % to 30% frm market value

QUOTE(pubmut @ Apr 12 2011, 12:25 PM)
Here's something I dug out. Read the ensuing commentaries - it's fun, vulgar and enlightening - something you'd get out of reading tabloids!

GMSB under the microscope

All I can surmise is that GMSB buys raw gold in bulk, produces them bars and sells them at below market spot prices. The commentaries will give you some info on the mechanics of trading.

Hope this helps.
*

Added on May 12, 2011, 11:41 amfor bar the safest way to check is to cut the bar in half . also unknown bar normally will lost value between 25 % to 30 % of market price when traded sad.gif

QUOTE(smartinvestor01 @ May 3 2011, 12:39 PM)
Some goldsmiths when they check the purity of the gold, they need to scratch the gold..

According to my friend who is the consultant, if the gold is scratched, they will not want to buy back the gold..
*
This post has been edited by Lycan: May 12 2011, 11:41 AM
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post May 12 2011, 05:02 PM


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QUOTE(PatEagle @ May 4 2011, 01:16 PM)
Good questions Empathy and b00n  smile.gif
Below is the explanation...

Serious investors and consultant-wannabes are most welcomed to view the spreadsheet by making an appointment to meet us at Genneva's office or nearby cafe on any working day within office hours...

I've a life too, besides answering questions and concerns related to Genneva Gold.  laugh.gif
*
i could not see the spreadsheets.. could you pls help?
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PatEagle
post May 17 2011, 09:31 PM


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» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Exactly. Listen to Tun M's Keynote Addtress at the Genneva Syariah Official Opening:

► Part 2 of 3 (A): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM8phkrEP_M

► Part 2 of 3 (B): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc8qT1EHXoA

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

"Under suspicion" does not mean guilty. In order not to reinvent the wheel, read my reply at http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=41968170

Cheers!

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Mike Teh
post May 18 2011, 04:40 PM


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QUOTE(evilspeculator @ Apr 25 2011, 01:47 PM)
Invested in Genneva gold last week. Bought 2 gold wafer 50g each, and 2% returns every month for 6 months. I am holding the physical gold now.
*
5 points to consider seriously abt this scheme "-

1. The directors are charged by Bank Negara in court and the case is still pending.

2. You are buying gold at jack-up price. Price of 99.999 pure gold quoted by Maybank and Public Bank is about RM150/gram but Genneva sells to you at RM182/gram.

3. You will break even if the scheme can sustain about 15 months period because you will receive 1.5% x 15 = 22.5% return to offset the 20-25% higher price you pay.

4. How can the business model be sustainable? The company sell to you and buy-back at same price at end of 6 months period. And the company has to fork out 1.5% x 6 = 9% hibah + introducer commission + upline overriding + administration and company operation cost + etc expenses. I don't know how the company can sustain other than to use the payment by the later customers for the earlier customers. What if more people wish to redeem at the same time? Will the company has cash flow to meet the redemption? What will happen if cash flow is not enough to meet redemption? The whole scheme will collapsed.

5. Its true that you hold the gold bullion as security but the gold bullion is sold at jack-up price. What you hold is not worth the value you pay? As at 10 May 2011, Genneva quoted price of RM182/gram for 999.9 gold while Maybank only quotes RM148.39 for similar grade, a 22% price difference. If the company closes shop tomorrow, the price of RM182,000/kg that I pay for Genneva gold will only be worth RM148,390 based on Maybank quoted selling price (prevalent market price + service charge). In all, I pay RM182,000 but get back only RM148,390, a loss of RM33,610 if the company close shop before maturity period. And the total hibah of 1.5% x 6 = 9% (or RM16,380) does not measure up to the risk of loss that I have to bear.


Added on May 18, 2011, 4:50 pm
QUOTE(kuekwee @ Apr 12 2011, 12:46 AM)
2% pm with total 12% or period of 6 month i think is bullshit. i do not think there is such good deal out there.  If it so true i can just borrow personal loan at 9-10% per anum. Nett i gain 12% per anum buy just investing into this investment.

imo, i think is another big scam.
*
How can the company sustain the payment for hibah, meet redemption, pay company operation expenses when the buying and selling price is the same in 6 months? Sound much like a Ponzi Scheme, those early birds will catch the worms and later ones will get burnt. Imagine the company pay to investor 1.5%/month, introducer 0.5%/month, upline 0.3%/month. Total 2.3%/month or 27.6%/year. Assuming operation/marketing cost at 1% per month or 12% per year and staff salary at 0.5% per year or 6% a year, Genneva will have to make 27.6% + 12% + 6% = 45.6% just to break even.

Possible or not, you analyse yourself.

Assuming the gold you hold as security is genuine 99.999% purity, if the company go bust, the price of RM182,000 you pay for 1 kg will only be worth RM182,000 - 25% = RM136,500 in the open market.

Is 1.5% a month return worth the risk, you judge yourself.


Added on May 18, 2011, 5:04 pm
QUOTE(Empathy @ May 4 2011, 10:29 AM)
But every 6 months the investor has the option to sell back the gold bar to Genneva at the actual price they paid . Example : if you pay RM 9000 for a 50 gram gold bar , you can sell back the 50 gram gold bar at the same price to Genneva 6 months later . So i cannot see how Genneva can generate profit to pay the investor 18 percent per year .  hmm.gif

.
*
If no investor cash out, Genneva will make 7%. What if you are cashing out and Genneva needs to pay you back your buying price and you already make and keep the return? How will Genneva come up with the 18% yearly return and not forgetting, they also have to incur operation cost and expenses in runnng the company and paying their staff's salary.


Added on May 18, 2011, 5:21 pm
QUOTE(PatEagle @ Apr 26 2011, 05:17 AM)
Hi Vincent, thanks for sharing this.

No matter what people say or write with a lot of well-meaning apprehension and caution, Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd is still operating and in fact, growing from strength to strength.

How I see Genneva Gold Investment... In a nutshell, it is actually a saving plan similar to placing your savings in Fixed Deposit. Whether the price of gold goes up or down, your capital is protected 100% with 1.5% return every month (for a tenure of 6 months); compared to FD which gives you only 2.85% PER YEAR.

There is a special promotion going on now. Read more at Genneva Gold Savings Plan.

Cheers!

Pat Lu
Hopefully retired.
*
Pat Lu is happy because when you buy 1kg of Genneva gold from him at RM182,000, he promises you 1.5% x 6 months = 9 % return or RM16,380 for 6 months and he will also receive 3% or RM5,460 for the 6 months period. If he is a senior consultant (upline), he will receive an additional 0.3% x 6 months = 1.8% or RM3,276. If you renew after 6 months, he will continue to receive the amount.

Imagine Genevva sell gold at RM182,000/kg and has 5 ton or 5,000 kg of gold outstanding in circulation waiting for redemption with total selling price of RM910,000,000 (RM910 million) but with premium value of 20% or RM182,000,000 (RM182 million). If the Directors decide to close down business, they will get to keep the premium that you pay of RM182 million while you keep the gold that actually worth only RM728,000,000 (RM728 million).

Bear in mind that Genevva has paid-up capital of only RM1 million.

So there is no risk to Pat Lu when he try to convince you to buy but the risk is on the investor is tremendous if the company face cash flow problem. Only the Consultant will be laughing all the way to the bank and the Directors can retire wealthily with RM182 million in anywhere in the world.



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post May 19 2011, 08:53 AM


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QUOTE(Mike Teh @ May 18 2011, 04:40 PM)
5 points to consider seriously abt this scheme "-

1. The directors are charged by Bank Negara in court and the case is still pending.

2. You are buying gold at jack-up price. Price of 99.999 pure gold quoted by Maybank and Public Bank is about RM150/gram but Genneva sells to you at RM182/gram.

3. You will break even if the scheme can sustain about 15 months period because you will receive 1.5% x 15 = 22.5% return to offset the 20-25% higher price you pay.

4. How can the business model be sustainable? The company sell to you and buy-back at same price at end of 6 months period. And the company has to fork out 1.5% x 6 = 9% hibah + introducer commission + upline overriding + administration and company operation cost + etc expenses. I don't know how the company can sustain other than to use the payment by the later customers for the earlier customers. What if more people wish to redeem at the same time? Will the company has cash flow to meet the redemption? What will happen if cash flow is not enough to meet redemption? The whole scheme will collapsed.

5. Its true that you hold the gold bullion as security but the gold bullion is sold at jack-up price.  What you hold is not worth the value you pay? As at 10 May 2011, Genneva quoted price of RM182/gram for 999.9 gold while Maybank only quotes RM148.39 for similar grade, a 22% price difference. If the company closes shop tomorrow, the price of RM182,000/kg that I pay for Genneva gold will only be worth RM148,390 based on Maybank quoted selling price (prevalent market price + service charge). In all, I pay RM182,000 but get back only RM148,390, a loss of RM33,610 if the company close shop before maturity period. And the total hibah of 1.5% x 6 = 9% (or RM16,380) does not measure up to the risk of loss that I have to bear.


Added on May 18, 2011, 4:50 pm
How can the company sustain the payment for hibah, meet redemption, pay company operation expenses when the buying and selling price is the same in 6 months? Sound much like a Ponzi Scheme, those early birds will catch the worms and later ones will get burnt. Imagine the company pay to investor 1.5%/month, introducer 0.5%/month, upline 0.3%/month. Total 2.3%/month or 27.6%/year. Assuming operation/marketing cost at 1% per month or 12% per year and staff salary at 0.5% per year or 6% a year, Genneva will have to make 27.6% + 12% + 6% = 45.6% just to break even.

Possible or not, you analyse yourself.

Assuming the gold you hold as security is genuine 99.999% purity, if the company go bust, the price of RM182,000 you pay for 1 kg will only be worth RM182,000 - 25% = RM136,500 in the open market.

Is 1.5% a month return worth the risk, you judge yourself.


Added on May 18, 2011, 5:04 pm

If no investor cash out, Genneva will make 7%. What if you are cashing out and Genneva needs to pay you back your buying price and you already make and keep the return? How will Genneva come up with the 18% yearly return and not forgetting, they also have to incur operation cost and expenses in runnng the company and paying their staff's salary.


Added on May 18, 2011, 5:21 pm
Pat Lu is happy because when you buy 1kg of Genneva gold from him at RM182,000, he promises you 1.5% x 6 months = 9 % return or RM16,380 for 6 months and he will also receive 3% or RM5,460 for the 6 months period. If he is a senior consultant (upline), he will receive an additional 0.3% x 6 months = 1.8% or RM3,276. If you renew after 6 months, he will continue to receive the amount.

Imagine Genevva sell gold at RM182,000/kg and has 5 ton or 5,000 kg of gold outstanding in circulation waiting for redemption with total selling price of RM910,000,000 (RM910 million) but with premium value of 20% or RM182,000,000 (RM182 million). If the Directors decide to close down business, they will get to keep the premium that you pay of RM182 million while you keep the gold that actually worth only RM728,000,000 (RM728 million).

Bear in mind that Genevva has paid-up capital of only RM1 million.

So there is no risk to Pat Lu when he try to convince you to buy but the risk is on the investor is tremendous if the company face cash flow problem. Only the Consultant will be laughing all the way to the bank and the Directors can retire wealthily with RM182 million in anywhere in the world.
*
Is right.......Good wrtiteup......many are blinded by the 1.5% p month even tho they KNOW they(the buyers) are in fact
paying themselves through the 25% PREMIUM loaded at the initial sell price!
whistling.gif

A fool and his money are soon parted .... nod.gif
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iWill
post May 19 2011, 05:08 PM


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QUOTE(Mike Teh @ May 18 2011, 04:40 PM)
5 points to consider seriously abt this scheme "-

1. The directors are charged by Bank Negara in court and the case is still pending.

2. You are buying gold at jack-up price. Price of 99.999 pure gold quoted by Maybank and Public Bank is about RM150/gram but Genneva sells to you at RM182/gram.

3. You will break even if the scheme can sustain about 15 months period because you will receive 1.5% x 15 = 22.5% return to offset the 20-25% higher price you pay.

4. How can the business model be sustainable? The company sell to you and buy-back at same price at end of 6 months period. And the company has to fork out 1.5% x 6 = 9% hibah + introducer commission + upline overriding + administration and company operation cost + etc expenses. I don't know how the company can sustain other than to use the payment by the later customers for the earlier customers. What if more people wish to redeem at the same time? Will the company has cash flow to meet the redemption? What will happen if cash flow is not enough to meet redemption? The whole scheme will collapsed.

5. Its true that you hold the gold bullion as security but the gold bullion is sold at jack-up price.  What you hold is not worth the value you pay? As at 10 May 2011, Genneva quoted price of RM182/gram for 999.9 gold while Maybank only quotes RM148.39 for similar grade, a 22% price difference. If the company closes shop tomorrow, the price of RM182,000/kg that I pay for Genneva gold will only be worth RM148,390 based on Maybank quoted selling price (prevalent market price + service charge). In all, I pay RM182,000 but get back only RM148,390, a loss of RM33,610 if the company close shop before maturity period. And the total hibah of 1.5% x 6 = 9% (or RM16,380) does not measure up to the risk of loss that I have to bear.


Added on May 18, 2011, 4:50 pm
How can the company sustain the payment for hibah, meet redemption, pay company operation expenses when the buying and selling price is the same in 6 months? Sound much like a Ponzi Scheme, those early birds will catch the worms and later ones will get burnt. Imagine the company pay to investor 1.5%/month, introducer 0.5%/month, upline 0.3%/month. Total 2.3%/month or 27.6%/year. Assuming operation/marketing cost at 1% per month or 12% per year and staff salary at 0.5% per year or 6% a year, Genneva will have to make 27.6% + 12% + 6% = 45.6% just to break even.

Possible or not, you analyse yourself.

Assuming the gold you hold as security is genuine 99.999% purity, if the company go bust, the price of RM182,000 you pay for 1 kg will only be worth RM182,000 - 25% = RM136,500 in the open market.

Is 1.5% a month return worth the risk, you judge yourself.


Added on May 18, 2011, 5:04 pm

If no investor cash out, Genneva will make 7%. What if you are cashing out and Genneva needs to pay you back your buying price and you already make and keep the return? How will Genneva come up with the 18% yearly return and not forgetting, they also have to incur operation cost and expenses in runnng the company and paying their staff's salary.


Added on May 18, 2011, 5:21 pm
Pat Lu is happy because when you buy 1kg of Genneva gold from him at RM182,000, he promises you 1.5% x 6 months = 9 % return or RM16,380 for 6 months and he will also receive 3% or RM5,460 for the 6 months period. If he is a senior consultant (upline), he will receive an additional 0.3% x 6 months = 1.8% or RM3,276. If you renew after 6 months, he will continue to receive the amount.

Imagine Genevva sell gold at RM182,000/kg and has 5 ton or 5,000 kg of gold outstanding in circulation waiting for redemption with total selling price of RM910,000,000 (RM910 million) but with premium value of 20% or RM182,000,000 (RM182 million). If the Directors decide to close down business, they will get to keep the premium that you pay of RM182 million while you keep the gold that actually worth only RM728,000,000 (RM728 million).

Bear in mind that Genevva has paid-up capital of only RM1 million.

So there is no risk to Pat Lu when he try to convince you to buy but the risk is on the investor is tremendous if the company face cash flow problem. Only the Consultant will be laughing all the way to the bank and the Directors can retire wealthily with RM182 million in anywhere in the world.
*
I like the analysis. The company capitalizes on greed. Busted! biggrin.gif
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PatEagle
post May 20 2011, 06:44 AM


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QUOTE(Mike Teh @ May 18 2011, 04:40 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Hi Mike Teh,

Same here. I thought it was too good to be true two and half years ago when my uncle first told me about it and I kept warning him (exactly as you're doing here in this forum) at every CNY and every occasion we meet to encourage him to pull out before it's too late. I thought he was being naive and 'greedy.' I hope he never gets to read this comment. tongue.gif

However, I changed my mind late Jan this year after taking time to do indepth study into the company and the business model as more relatives and friends bought into Genneva Gold Savings Plan.

In a nutshell, Genneva Malaysia is NOT an investment house, it's a goldsmith shop with a difference, with a new business model. As we all know, no other goldsmiths share their profit as Genneva does. Genneva don't just sell gold and stop there. They have an innovative business model, the first of it's kind in the world (Made in Malaysia) and replicated in Singapore, Philippines, China and Hongkong. Genneva’s vision is to become Asia’s Largest and Fastest Growing One-Stop Gold Trading Corporation with a mission to provide investors with the safest and most convenient platform for gold trading that guarantee a legal, stable and reliable income through saving in gold.

To cut the long story short, so happened Genneva International Marketing Director Philip Lim gave a Genneva Gold Talk: Saving Efficiently with Gold last night. Topics include introduction to gold and money, Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd and saving efficiently with Genneva Gold. Unfortunately I ran out of space on my little camera for the Q&A session. However, you can watch a couple at Genneva Gold Talk YouTube Playlist

Before we continue this discussion, lets be fair and make informed decisions. Please watch the videos first, then come back here to share your views.

If you want to cut to the chase, watch Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvu5pYNmUnE and Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUXGXkv3odc

Cheers and have a pleasant weekend. cool2.gif
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prophetjul
post May 20 2011, 11:22 PM


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Genneva sharing profit...issit?

Genneva sells gold to the buyers at 25% above spot gold prices.
Yes, thats 25% above spot gold prices.
Whos sharing with who? biggrin.gif

Sure its blue ocean.......for.....Genneva.....

Essentially, YOU are paying yourselves the 9% interest that you are so attracted to.....

Then theres the buyback option

a) you can sell back to Genneva at original purchase price
b) Or you can keep the gold

first of all, they say GOLDS GOING UPPPPP , so why sell? Of course most will keep the gold.

Next if you keep the gold, who the heck are you going to sell the gold to? whistling.gif

If you have chosen to keep, you cant sell it back to Genneva.
SO the other option maybe to sell back to jewelers.
Know how much of your flesh the jewelers are going to cut?
25 to 35% nod.gif

So essentially, if you chose to sell it to Genneva, you have paid yourself 9% and paid Genneva 16% making the 25%.
Thanks for sharing! rclxms.gif

If you keep the gold, when you sell to jewelers, you get slaughtered 25% off your gold.........

Basically Genneva is a go between to buy the gold at spot price and sell it at 25% to the buyers and
call the interest 'sharing'..... rclxms.gif ......very ingenious.......must admit

NOWWWWW.....this is the thing....IF gold prices tanks, and EVERYone wanna sellback..........ahem......

Genneva only Rm1 mil paid up Caveat Emptor


Added on May 20, 2011, 11:34 pm
QUOTE
Uncle bought 3 years ago 80,000 per kg.....


Datuk offered 120,000 per kg while gold is worth 153,000 per kg

Who cheat who? hmm.gif

i buy bullion at 2460 per oz. i sell the gold at 4603 at todays spot prices.
Why Datuk only offer me 150,000? whistling.gif

Whos making more?

Who cheat who har? sweat.gif



This post has been edited by prophetjul: May 20 2011, 11:34 PM
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PatEagle
post May 25 2011, 04:04 AM


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QUOTE(prophetjul @ May 20 2011, 11:22 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

You didn't get it. So Genneva Malaysia marks up by 25% above spot gold prices.
Jewellers such as Poh Kong and Tomei marks up by 20% from spot price, not including workmanship.
Only 5% difference yet Genneva gold merchant shares profit and it's a win-win for all.
Does the rest of the goldsmith merchants share profit? No.

Genneva having a new business model does not make it wrong or illegal. In fact, Genneva Malaysia provides the safest and most convenient platform for gold trading that guarantee a legal, stable and reliable income through saving in gold. It's a SAVINGS PLAN. Not "investing in gold" per se. Gold, secure in the buyers' possession, is merely a collateral. Get it?

Go watch the videos again:
Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvu5pYNmUnE and Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUXGXkv3odc

May as well watch Part 5 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIbf1v456rY
and Part 6 too - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDqhTSe08C4

Take your time to do your homework, while the thousands of Genneva customers not only here in Malaysia but also in China, Hongkong, Philippines and Singapore, who did their homework, are enjoying their monthly returns based on Syariah principles. Read more at http://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/welcome/

This is what Genneva Gold 50g looks like
user posted image

Jongkong Emas Pelaburan Terbaik?
Mingguan Malaysia, Ahad 19 Disember 2010: Read the full article at
http://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/2011/05/1...aburan-terbaik/

Cheers!

This post has been edited by PatEagle: May 25 2011, 04:55 AM
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prophetjul
post May 25 2011, 07:42 AM


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QUOTE(PatEagle @ May 25 2011, 04:04 AM)
[/spoiler]
You didn't get it. So Genneva Malaysia marks up by 25% above spot gold prices.
Jewellers such as Poh Kong and Tomei marks up by 20% from spot price, not including workmanship.
Only 5% difference yet Genneva gold merchant shares profit and it's a win-win for all.
Does the rest of the goldsmith merchants share profit? No.

Genneva having a new business model does not make it wrong or illegal. In fact, Genneva Malaysia provides the safest and most convenient platform for gold trading that guarantee a legal, stable and reliable income through saving in gold. It's a SAVINGS PLAN. Not "investing in gold" per se. Gold, secure in the buyers' possession, is merely a collateral. Get it?

Go watch the videos again:
Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvu5pYNmUnE and Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUXGXkv3odc

May as well watch Part 5 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIbf1v456rY
and Part 6 too - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDqhTSe08C4

Take your time to do your homework, while the thousands of Genneva customers not only here in Malaysia but also in China, Hongkong, Philippines and Singapore, who did their homework, are enjoying their monthly returns based on Syariah principles. Read more at http://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/welcome/

This is what Genneva Gold 50g looks like
user posted image

Jongkong Emas Pelaburan Terbaik?
Mingguan Malaysia, Ahad 19 Disember 2010: Read the full article at
http://mygoldgoose.wordpress.com/2011/05/1...aburan-terbaik/

Cheers!
*
methinks its YOU guys who are selling Genneva who dont get IT......

i can buy a similar bar minted by Genneva at SPOT.....why in the world should i pay for
25% ABOVE SPOT?
You are selling BARS NOT jewellery. Bars are not minted coins. Coins control a numis premium.
Why in the world are you comparing with jewellers? Thats the trick that Genneva is using.


You go to Perth mint to buy a gold BAR. Its quoted at SPOT GOLD prices, NOT 25% ABOVE SPOT! nod.gif

i am not blinded by your sales figures of blinded customers.
Madoff sold $40b........so what? Customers were happy for a while till the bubble popped......

SO YES, essentially those who buy Genneva BARS, are paying themselves the 9% interest
that they are SO attracted to..... nod.gif

From YOUR Genneva Video whistling.gif

QUOTE
Uncle bought 3 years ago 80,000 per kg.....



Datuk offered 120,000 per kg while gold is worth 153,000 per kg

Who cheat who? rclxms.gif

i buy bullion at Rm2460 per oz. i sell the gold at Rm4603 at todays spot prices.
Why Datuk only offer me 150,000?

Whos making more?

Who cheat who har?

This post has been edited by prophetjul: May 25 2011, 07:45 AM
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wankongyew
post May 25 2011, 11:11 AM


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QUOTE(PatEagle @ May 25 2011, 04:04 AM)
[/spoiler]

Genneva having a new business model does not make it wrong or illegal. In fact, Genneva Malaysia provides the safest and most convenient platform for gold trading that guarantee a legal, stable and reliable income through saving in gold. It's a SAVINGS PLAN. Not "investing in gold" per se. Gold, secure in the buyers' possession, is merely a collateral. Get it?
That's a pretty dangerous thing to say. This effectively means that you give money to Genneva and they give you gold as collateral. They then take that money and invest it somewhere, and from their investment returns, they pay the agreed upon dividend back to you. The problems are that:

1. The value of the collateral they offer is less than the amount of money you invest.
2. They do not disclose how they invest that money that is capable of generating returns in excess of 18% per annum.
3. The money you pay is not held in a trust account separate from Genneva's own money.

It is quite evident that they do not in fact invest the money they get in the conventional way to generate sustainable income. Instead, they use the money they get to buy yet more gold and expand their business. Like any other pyramid scheme, their business plan will prosper only so long as they continue to keep expanding. I guess it's pretty cool that they've managed to expand their pyramid scheme outside of Malaysia but it is still at heart a pyramid scheme.

All this is not meant to convince PatEagle who is after all part of the system and obviously earns a substantial income from Genneva and whose interest is clearly to ensure that as many people sign up for the scheme as possible. It is merely meant to dissuade other people from joining in. Because PatEagle has a financial stake in this, he will never get tired of touting the scheme's benefits. While people like me who have nothing to gain will eventually get tired and bored of replying. The only hope for the good guys is that a continual stream of people will pop into this thread to periodically refute PatEagle's claims and prevent third parties from thinking that since PatEagle's claims are going unchallenged, they must be true.

Note: this is the first time I've posted in this thread.
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Empathy
post May 25 2011, 05:14 PM


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QUOTE(prophetjul @ May 25 2011, 07:42 AM)
From YOUR Genneva Video   whistling.gif


Who cheat who?   rclxms.gif


Whos making more?

Who cheat who har?
*
It's OK if you don't agree . It's OK if you want to criticize . BUT please stop with your sarcastic remarks . The Finance and Business forum is for us to learn and share new things . The discussions should be done in a mature and civilized manner. This is not the Kopitiam forum where sarcasm and making fun of other ppl seem to be the norm.


.

This post has been edited by Empathy: May 25 2011, 06:07 PM
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post May 25 2011, 06:24 PM


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QUOTE(PatEagle @ May 20 2011, 06:44 AM)
Hi Mike Teh,

Same here. I thought it was too good to be true two and half years ago when my uncle first told me about it and I kept warning him (exactly as you're doing here in this forum) at every CNY and every occasion we meet to encourage him to pull out before it's too late. I thought he was being naive and 'greedy.' I hope he never gets to read this comment. tongue.gif

However, I changed my mind late Jan this year after taking time to do indepth study into the company and the business model as more relatives and friends bought into [cool.gifGenneva Gold Savings Plan
.

In a nutshell, Genneva Malaysia is NOT an investment house, it's a goldsmith shop with a difference, with a new business model. As we all know, no other goldsmiths share their profit as Genneva does. Genneva don't just sell gold and stop there. They have an innovative business model, the first of it's kind in the world (Made in Malaysia) and replicated in Singapore, Philippines, China and Hongkong. Genneva’s vision is to become Asia’s Largest and Fastest Growing One-Stop Gold Trading Corporation with a mission to provide investors with the safest and most convenient platform for gold trading that guarantee a legal, stable and reliable income through saving in gold.

To cut the long story short, so happened Genneva International Marketing Director Philip Lim gave a Genneva Gold Talk: Saving Efficiently with Gold last night. Topics include introduction to gold and money, Genneva Malaysia Sdn Bhd and saving efficiently with Genneva Gold. Unfortunately I ran out of space on my little camera for the Q&A session. However, you can watch a couple at Genneva Gold Talk YouTube Playlist[/B]

Before we continue this discussion, lets be fair and make informed decisions. Please watch the videos first, then come back here to share your views.

If you want to cut to the chase, watch Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvu5pYNmUnE and Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUXGXkv3odc

Cheers and have a pleasant weekend.  cool2.gif
*
'PatLu' why don't you provide more numbers like Mike Teh instead of videos which I don't think the majority will watch. Maybe foreign investors figure from Singapore, Philippines, China and Hongkong and etc. What I see is that you keep promoting the mygoosegold scheme everywhere ( track back your previous posts wouldn't be hard ), isn't that abit suspicious ? And I feel yr argument isn't that strong I don't think you providing something useful. WHY DON'T YOU PROVIDE YOUR 'IN-DEPTH STUDY' and share with us ?


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prophetjul
post May 25 2011, 09:27 PM


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QUOTE(Empathy @ May 25 2011, 05:14 PM)
It's OK if you don't agree . It's OK if you want to criticize . BUT please stop with your sarcastic remarks . The Finance and Business forum is for us to learn and share new things . The discussions should be done in a mature and civilized manner. This is not the Kopitiam forum where sarcasm and making fun of other ppl seem to be the norm.
.
*
Maybe you ought to view the vids first huh?

Maybe you like to see unsuspecting people cheated out of their gold......

He says

QUOTE
i dont know who cheat who


Whos cheating who?

i dont like confidence tricksters..... vmad.gif


And who says sarcasm cannot be part of a discussion?

Especially to answer a sarcastic trickster? nod.gif

Go watch the vids before you jump your trollies

Oh and you dont have to read what i wrote....its trash anyway.... rolleyes.gif


QUOTE
Condemnation without investigation is the highest form of ignorance. -A. Einstein


This post has been edited by prophetjul: May 25 2011, 10:01 PM
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