Where is your location?

the assumed renovation cost is way too low

wheres the cost of your kitchen equipments?

I think there are some calculations & figures that you need to reconsider. There's a somewhat similar case with yours, more info here: http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1808674

In my opinion, I think you overestimated your:
1) Potential rent income from those 3 stalls.

In my opinion, I think you underestimated your:
1) Utilities bills (Water & electricity)
2) Repair & maintenance cost
3) Tables & chairs (you sure it's only RM100 & RM20 respectively?)
4) Ceiling fans (I've installed 2ft wide KDK wall mounted fans for RM300++ each)
5) Renovation (Even if your friend don't charge you workmanship fees, the material cost would definitely go way beyond RM5k)

Setting it up is one issue, managing it is another big issue to consider too.

Thanks for your comment, I appreciate that.

- The potential rent, maybe I'd lower down, since if the shop is still new established, people might not feel satisfied with the price. Right point here... Maybe I'd assume it's RM600 per stall...here, some stall goes to RM800 some even goes to RM1,100 (not kitchen). Anyway, let me draft it lower.

- Bills: I assume this because the company that my mum's working with, spend RM200+ in electricity (with air-cond), and water, I assume it's more than RM50...I don't know thinking like this is correct or not, so please correct me.

- Repair & maintenance cost: I've no ideas actually.

- Tables: Small tables around RM80 to 90 each, big tables around RM120 each.

- Chairs: RM21 each, plastic chairs. I believe if I buy more the tauke will less. He's my friend's dad.

- Ceiling fans: Seriously????? I just asked my mum while posting this...she's currently working in a shop selling electrical appliances, she told me that a KDK ceiling fan goes around RM14x, KDK brand. If lousier brand, around RM110.

- Renovation: Guess so, I really don't know where the price goes, need to redraft.

Thank you a lot 

Err.....correct me if I'm wrong, but usually the item itself may cost RM100++ but the installation (minor hacking, drilling, wiring & cabling etc) MAY add up another hundred or so depending on how much work is involved.

Also, I need some confirmation on this. If I'm not mistaken, there's a practice of not charging rent for several months as an incentive to attract hawkers into your coffee shop.

So make sure you don't spend all your savings into the start-up. Keep sufficient back up money for unexpected costs so that you can survive the infant stage.

Not charging rents for several months? Means I have to assume almost no cash inflows for the first few months...omg...

Rent only, RENT ONLY! The RM3k part, not the RM7k part that you're talking about.....so don't omg yet >_<

O...Haha...I see I see...

Hmm, but what I think is like this.

If the shop is located at an ideal location, the owner doesn't have to make such offer to attract people. Here mostly when you want to rent a shop which is located at a strategic location, you need to pay few months of rents (usually 3) in advance, or, at least an amount of deposit.

You almost scare me 

Where is your location? It sound good that if the business owner can have few months free rent 

Hi TS, good work as you start to think since young.
Let me point out some more cost:

You can ask 1 or 2 or 3 months of free rental due to renovation period from the shop owner.

Hi TS, good work as you start to think since young.
Let me point out some more cost:

1.. Chiller + freezer bout 1.5k each(2nd hand)
2. Sign board- bout 2-3k
3. License from local authority
4. Shutter
5. Tiles for kitchen parts
6. Those stainless steel stall cost 1-2k (again 2nd hand)
7. Lighting and fan
8. Don think utility bill will be so cheap
9. Working capital-- buying cigarettes, canned drink and etc

Renovation depends on how big is your shop. Rm5k definitely too less as you need tiles and partition.

Old already, can't think too much. Update you when I thought of something.
Anyway, good job and keep it up. Dare to dream!

  If you plan to spend 50K (an assumed figure) be sure to spare another 20K for contigencies. What I have always experienced is, the money flows away real fast during the renovations. You might need to do this after that or that again after this. Tiling and rental deposits are the two most highest expenditure. You mentioned a kitchen and that means the kitchen has to be tiled up at least 5 feet high plus the floor (minimum, some municipality wants the shole shop). You will also need contigencies because everything in the shop is running daily, unlike a home. Chillers and freezers are are running 24/7 and the older your fridge is the higher the electricity bill. Water and electricity runs on commercial rate and not the same as the rates at your home so the bill is averagedly 1K a month and some running as high as 2K for a single shoplot. Water is averagely RM300 to RM500 depending on how you control your stalls.

As for stainless steel stalls, try to select those without dents as old and dented stalls looks very ugly and put off!   As for workers wise, you can actually get the stalls to subsidise by giving bowls, plates collection and washing. You assign your worker to do it and you charge the stalls an extra RM8 a day (market price here in KL). So you save one workers wage. Don't worry, a 'kopitiam' like yours are not that hard to manage, being that size. Only problem is, USUALLY , it is always easy to plan and think (it's OK, I can work 12 hours a day) but when the times come, it will become so routinely boring that almost all want to give up. Like waking up at dawn and opening the cafe, boil water, clean the tables etc.etc. If you have the will, I am sure you will succeed and I am sure situation in Miri is not that hectic like KL/PJ.

Good Luck

... And now I'm searching for opportunity for myself to work in a coffee shop to learn how to make those drinks, and also some food and beverage management.

Better you go work in a coffee shop for at least 6 mths. Then, only plan to start one yourself.

whr is ur location in miri? good luck to ur business 

Hi everyone,

Here would need advice from all of you, especially those who have experience. Starting a coffee shop business has been my dream for many years. I've done some minor research too during this and last year. Here I would sketch out my "plan" and some of the element inside can be ridiculous or not logic maybe, so please kindly point out. And you might need to "fill in the blank" for me. 

Well, before I go into the startup cost, I'd just draft my monthly cash flow. Well, I draft everything with the worst conditions (Highest cost, lowest sales that I might get).

My plan is to sell drinks by myself, and having 3 stalls and one kitchen rent away.

Monthly Cash Inflow:
Rent received for 3 stalls and 1 kitchen, RM750, RM700, RM700 and RM900 respectively, total = RM3,050

1. Is this a realistic stall rental rate for RM25/day, especially for a new coffeeshop with unproven traffic?

2. Are you renting corner shoplots to accomodate 3 stalls because intermediate lot hardly can accommodate 3 stalls without feeling too cramp ?

Assume that I will sell 250 units (This is a worse figure) of drinks (can be canned, boxed or those "hand made" drinks), average profit = RM1 (I just take the brief average, since we earn more in hand made drinks than canned and boxed drinks), Daily profit = RM300, assume my coffee shop operate for 28 days per month = RM7,000 profit.

3. You won't earn RM1 for Canned and Packet Drinks, the most RM0.50 ~ RM0.60/can. A Cartoon of 100% or Coke (best selling can drinks) are easily RM24 and you could probably selling at RM1.80~RM2.0 each depending on your local market rate. But not to forget the cost of ice, straws, washing the cups, etc?

4. If you operate from 6am ~ 3pm, you are dealing with 2 meals, Breakfast and Lunch that total up the peak hours of 4 hours only. To sell 250 drinks in 4 hours, that is 62.5 pax per hour. If each table having 4 pax, you need 16 tables to accommodate this amount of customers. Does your shop
has that much space for such table size to support the volume that you estimated?

5. How about normal weekdays that has lower traffic or weekend that has lesser traffic for office area? The best way to confirm this is to do a human traffic count on daily basis for at least 1 week to have a more accurate data for your calculation. A more practical figure would be around 100 drinks/day for the start.

Total monthly cash inflow = approx RM10,000

6. Did you calculated the amount of reserves you need to standby before your coffeeshop is establised with a regular customer base, probably at least 6 months? You should be calculating your cost and expenses first to determine how much sales you need to make to cover, not the other way around.



Monthly Cash Outflow:
Rent paid = RM3,500 per month (I did a simple research by mouth, asking the rent for several places which are attached with offices, colleges, banks, pasar and shops which many people will drop by often. RM3,000 per month is an average, as some are just paying RM2,500 per month and some are spending around RM4,000)

Is this corner or intermediate lot? Given a choice, always go for Corner lot that provide more extra space, more opening for better airflow and attract better attention. Success rate of coffeeshop on corner lot is also much higher. If your plan is on intermidiate lot, I think you should at least double your risk of failure and survival cost.

2 employees, for serving drinks and wash cups, cleaning and etc: RM600 per month per person = RM1,200 per month

Does it sounds realistic for 2 employees to take order, serving drinks and washing cups to handles 250 drinks in 4 hours? Who is preparing the drinks, coffee and tea? Normally this require an experience coffee maker that could be costing more than RM1,000 a month.


1 cashier (my mum) = RM1,500 per month (0f course I will treat my mum better than this, maybe)

Your mum will work 7 days a week, 30 days a month? Poor mum

Misc bills (electric, water, gas, telephone??) = Estimated RM500?? (that's a lot actually)

Electricity bill alone will cost you RM500. Water could be at least $200, Gas could be another RM100 and Tel maybe another RM50, so total is RM750. How about offering WIFI service? That will add another RM100.

Misc expenses (fixing things, or just in case anything happen, auditing??? is this necessary?) = RM500 +/-

Where is your cost of buying misc items like ice, straws, plastic packets, washing powder, dish washing liquid, sugar, milk, etc... Don't underestimate these expense, this is what is going to eat your profit away.

Total monthly cash outflow = approx RM7,000

From your calculation, it looks more than RM8k.

Monthly net cash flow = RM3,000 (of course I will make sure it's something better than this if I really jump into this ship)

From your calculation, the monthly cash flow seems very tight and probably in red for the first few months.

The net cash flow is basically from what my eyes have observed and what I've heard. Now I need a lot of advice for the startup cost.
3 months of rent in advance: RM10,500
1st month of expenses: approx RM4,000

Why 1st month expenses only? You are too optimistic that your coffeeshop will be overflow with customers right from Day 1. Standby at least 3 months of expense is more realistic, 6 months would be safer and 12 months is ideal.

Tables: 20 tables (got extras), one for RM100 = RM2,000
Chairs: 120 chairs (got extras), one for RM20 = RM2,400

How big is your coffeeshop to take 20 tables and 120 chairs? Is such size shoplot rental as cheap as your estimated?

Cups & Spoons for drinks: Make it simple, RM1,000
Extra fans (I imagine the ceiling fans that install in the outlet): 4 units x RM150 = RM600

4 fans are way too few, check out how many fans most coffeeshop has.

Renovation (This still depends on the condition when I get the outlet, it might need a lot of renovation or might not): Estimated RM5,000 (get this figure from one of my tuition teachers whose son is now operating a air-conditioned cafe)

Unless you rented a shoplot that already done renovation for coffeeshop, otherwise it is never possible to get everything done for RM5k. There are requirement to have 5' Tiles at customer sitting area and tiles to roof at kitchen and drink making area for your license. How about Ventilation, Sink filtration, Water Filtration, big rubbish container, signboards, lightings, etc.. Get prepared to standby at least RM20k~RM30k just for renovation is more realistic

Total for now is around RM25,000...I know I miss out a lot of things which I don't know. First thing...Hmm...I don't state it above because I don't know the price.


You missed out almost everything need to make your drinks. Fridge will cost easily RM1.5k~RM2k each? Water Boiler? Bread Oven? Washing basin, ? Kettle, Pots and Utensil to make drinks, etc.. All these could cost you more than RM5k easily.

How about the stocking items like can drinks, beers, ciggi, coffee, tea, candies, tibbits, etc.. on your opening? This could cost you easily RM3k~RM5k depending the amount of beers and ciggi you stocking up.


The stainless steel "stall" where the hawkers put their food to display, and place for them to store their food and dishes, those stoves and so on. Can anyone tell me the estimated price?

The one in your picture could be easily RM2k~$RM3k, get used one could be slightly cheaper.

Another thing is the registration. Seriously, I still don't know the process. Hope anyone can give me a link to a guide and so on. But if I'm not mistaken, to register as a sole trader, RM80 is needed. Correct me if I'm wrong.

And what's the minimum age to get into a sole trader business? (FYI, I'm just 19  )

This is the simplest process of everything. You need to be 18 years old to be a Sdn Bhd Director, I believe Sole Proprietor should be the same. Even if not, you can register with your mum name.

And I believe there are other things (A lot) that I need to know before getting into the business. I still got years of time before I get into it. So it's better for me to know some of the things now.  Like this that I need to beware when renting away stalls and so on...

Sorry if I'm raising some stupid questions here, because I'm still in the process of learning 

Thank you everyone 

Thanks for your comment, I appreciate that.

- The potential rent, maybe I'd lower down, since if the shop is still new established, people might not feel satisfied with the price. Right point here... Maybe I'd assume it's RM600 per stall...here, some stall goes to RM800 some even goes to RM1,100 (not kitchen). Anyway, let me draft it lower.

If I am you and to assure better chance of success, I would personally identify the popular food stalls and offer them free rental for at least 3 months. In Miri, you will probably need at least Kolo Mee, Laksa & Chicken Rice in your coffeeshop for the minimum.

- Bills: I assume this because the company that my mum's working with, spend RM200+ in electricity (with air-cond), and water, I assume it's more than RM50...I don't know thinking like this is correct or not, so please correct me.

Unless electricity rate is half of West Malaysia, otherwise a coffee shop with two 2-door fridges and fans will cost at least RM500. If fully aircon, it will cost easily RM2k~RM5k depending on area size and if it is enclosed.

- Repair & maintenance cost: I've no ideas actually.

- Tables: Small tables around RM80 to 90 each, big tables around RM120 each.

- Chairs: RM21 each, plastic chairs. I believe if I buy more the tauke will less. He's my friend's dad.

- Ceiling fans: Seriously????? I just asked my mum while posting this...she's currently working in a shop selling electrical appliances, she told me that a KDK ceiling fan goes around RM14x, KDK brand. If lousier brand, around RM110.

No need installation, wiring and hacking?

- Renovation: Guess so, I really don't know where the price goes, need to redraft.

Thank you a lot 

Haha...any extra meaning behind??? 

I opened a restaurant from scratch before, so I roughly know the cost and experience in running food business. Just to share some questions for your consideration.

Have your planned out how to get the right stalls that sell popular food to rent at your new coffeeshop? Some new coffeeshop even offer free rental for several months to popular food stalls to attract them moving there and some offering cheaper drinks to attract the crowd.

You must always remember that in your coffeeshop business, the customers come because of the food unless you have some specialty drinks that taste better than everywhere else that make everyone comes for your drinks only. If not, the food stall renting at your coffeeshop is your success and failure factor. Of course, location, human traffic volume, type of customers, etc.. is important too.

Have you also consider your and your mum lifestyles after opening this coffeeshop? You or your mum will be totally tied down by the coffeeshop and basically there is little life after that. You won't break even before the first year, so this is going to be at least a few years commitment business. From your calculation, if it could only return RM3k profit, you are better off study well and going into employment with a nice MNC with all the perks. Don't be surprise that most average coffeeshop that operate 2 meals are actually earning around that.

If you still think this is the right business for you and viable venture, then you should start by working or helping out at coffee shops. This will give you the insight of running the business before pouring all your money to drain later.

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Added on April 7, 2011, 3:08 amSome more comments for you to ponder on
How about ventilation, lightings, wiring and socket point? CCTV & Alarm System? Beers and Ciggi are high value items.

'2 employees, for serving drinks and wash cups, cleaning and etc: RM600 per month per person = RM1,200 per month'

You realize minimum wage is RM1050 now, and not RM 600? Half day work only?

The large costs, as far as rent, location, installation etc...have already been discussed but any coffee shop but those costs will basically be different for everyone. A coffee shop in NYC is different from a coffee shop in Malaysia, Australia, or Japan.

At a minimum, though, you will have to pay for Wifi, a commercial water boiler, coffee beans, cups etc...and a way to market and promote yourself as being different from everyone else.

Maybe you feature local musicians, or have amazing coffee flavors, great music, reliable free Wifi, comfortable furniture etc...I wish you good luck though because I'm sick of Starbucks!