Hi everyone,

Here would need advice from all of you, especially those who have experience. Starting a coffee shop business has been my dream for many years. I've done some minor research too during this and last year. Here I would sketch out my "plan" and some of the element inside can be ridiculous or not logic maybe, so please kindly point out. And you might need to "fill in the blank" for me.

Well, before I go into the startup cost, I'd just draft my monthly cash flow. Well, I draft everything with the worst conditions (Highest cost, lowest sales that I might get).

My plan is to sell drinks by myself, and having 3 stalls and one kitchen rent away.

Monthly Cash Inflow:
Rent received for 3 stalls and 1 kitchen, RM750, RM700, RM700 and RM900 respectively, total = RM3,050
Assume that I will sell 250 units (This is a worse figure) of drinks (can be canned, boxed or those "hand made" drinks), average profit = RM1 (I just take the brief average, since we earn more in hand made drinks than canned and boxed drinks), Daily profit = RM300, assume my coffee shop operate for 28 days per month = RM7,000 profit.

Total monthly cash inflow = approx RM10,000

Monthly Cash Outflow:
Rent paid = RM3,500 per month (I did a simple research by mouth, asking the rent for several places which are attached with offices, colleges, banks, pasar and shops which many people will drop by often. RM3,000 per month is an average, as some are just paying RM2,500 per month and some are spending around RM4,000)
2 employees, for serving drinks and wash cups, cleaning and etc: RM600 per month per person = RM1,200 per month
1 cashier (my mum) = RM1,500 per month (0f course I will treat my mum better than this, maybe)
Misc bills (electric, water, gas, telephone??) = Estimated RM500?? (that's a lot actually)
Misc expenses (fixing things, or just in case anything happen, auditing??? is this necessary?) = RM500 +/-

Total monthly cash outflow = approx RM7,000

Monthly net cash flow = RM3,000 (of course I will make sure it's something better than this if I really jump into this ship)

The net cash flow is basically from what my eyes have observed and what I've heard. Now I need a lot of advice for the startup cost.
3 months of rent in advance: RM10,500
1st month of expenses: approx RM4,000
Tables: 20 tables (got extras), one for RM100 = RM2,000
Chairs: 120 chairs (got extras), one for RM20 = RM2,400
Cups & Spoons for drinks: Make it simple, RM1,000
Extra fans (I imagine the ceiling fans that install in the outlet): 4 units x RM150 = RM600
Renovation (This still depends on the condition when I get the outlet, it might need a lot of renovation or might not): Estimated RM5,000 (get this figure from one of my tuition teachers whose son is now operating a air-conditioned cafe)

Total for now is around RM25,000...I know I miss out a lot of things which I don't know. First thing...Hmm...I don't state it above because I don't know the price.


The stainless steel "stall" where the hawkers put their food to display, and place for them to store their food and dishes, those stoves and so on. Can anyone tell me the estimated price?

Another thing is the registration. Seriously, I still don't know the process. Hope anyone can give me a link to a guide and so on. But if I'm not mistaken, to register as a sole trader, RM80 is needed. Correct me if I'm wrong.

And what's the minimum age to get into a sole trader business? (FYI, I'm just 19 )

And I believe there are other things (A lot) that I need to know before getting into the business. I still got years of time before I get into it. So it's better for me to know some of the things now. Like this that I need to beware when renting away stalls and so on...

Sorry if I'm raising some stupid questions here, because I'm still in the process of learning

Thank you everyone

Where is your location?

I'm from Miri, Sarawak.

the assumed renovation cost is way too low

wheres the cost of your kitchen equipments?

Ya, the renovation cost is low, it can be higher, but I can make it low (Got people whom I know that can do for me with little price, unless he leave Malaysia when I want to run a business =.=")

The kitchen equipment? Do you mean by the thing shown in the photo? Or those plates and etc...Hmm, for here, the people/hawkers who want to take the stall (by renting) will need to prepare their own plates, spoons, forks and so on. The only things I need to prepare is the facility. And I don't know how much does that cost.

I think there are some calculations & figures that you need to reconsider. There's a somewhat similar case with yours, more info here: http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1808674

In my opinion, I think you overestimated your:
1) Potential rent income from those 3 stalls (Even in KL area, the rent is slightly lesser than RM700. I think Miri would be lesser no?).

In my opinion, I think you underestimated your:
1) Utilities bills (Water & electricity - you'll be needing a lot of water for washing & keeping your place clean)
2) Repair & maintenance cost (Even small repairs cost several hundred ringgits already, not to mention equipment repairs)
3) Tables & chairs (you sure it's only RM100 & RM20 respectively? Ikea's selling simple plastic stools for RM13 already)
4) Ceiling fans (I've installed 2ft wide KDK wall mounted fans for RM300++ each)
5) Renovation (Even if your friend don't charge you workmanship fees, the material cost would definitely go way beyond RM5k)

Kitchen equipments may be your boilers, water filters, kitchen countertops, sink & faucets, air ventilation, cabinets etc?

Setting it up is one issue, managing it is another big issue to consider too.

This post has been edited by NightHeart: Mar 30 2011, 09:31 PM

Thanks for your comment, I appreciate that.

- The potential rent, maybe I'd lower down, since if the shop is still new established, people might not feel satisfied with the price. Right point here... Maybe I'd assume it's RM600 per stall...here, some stall goes to RM800 some even goes to RM1,100 (not kitchen). Anyway, let me draft it lower.

- Bills: I assume this because the company that my mum's working with, spend RM200+ in electricity (with air-cond), and water, I assume it's more than RM50...I don't know thinking like this is correct or not, so please correct me.

- Repair & maintenance cost: I've no ideas actually.

- Tables: Small tables around RM80 to 90 each, big tables around RM120 each.

- Chairs: RM21 each, plastic chairs. I believe if I buy more the tauke will less. He's my friend's dad.

- Ceiling fans: Seriously????? I just asked my mum while posting this...she's currently working in a shop selling electrical appliances, she told me that a KDK ceiling fan goes around RM14x, KDK brand. If lousier brand, around RM110.

- Renovation: Guess so, I really don't know where the price goes, need to redraft.

Thank you a lot

Err.....correct me if I'm wrong, but usually the item itself may cost RM100++ but the installation (minor hacking, drilling, wiring & cabling etc) MAY add up another hundred or so depending on how much work is involved.

Also, I need some confirmation on this. If I'm not mistaken, there's a practice of not charging rent for several months as an incentive to attract hawkers into your coffee shop.

So make sure you don't spend all your savings into the start-up. Keep sufficient back up money for unexpected costs so that you can survive the infant stage.

Installation maybe I assume another RM200 to RM300? I believe I can find cheap one because my mum works at the electrical appliance shop, she and even I know some contractor...Umm...

Not charging rents for several months? Means I have to assume almost no cash inflows for the first few months...omg...

Rent only, RENT ONLY! The RM3k part, not the RM7k part that you're talking about.....so don't omg yet >_<

O...Haha...I see I see...

Hmm, but what I think is like this.

If the shop is located at an ideal location, the owner doesn't have to make such offer to attract people. Here mostly when you want to rent a shop which is located at a strategic location, you need to pay few months of rents (usually 3) in advance, or, at least an amount of deposit.

You almost scare me

Where is your location? It sound good that if the business owner can have few months free rent

You can ask 1 or 2 or 3 months of free rental due to renovation period from the shop owner.

Hi TS, good work as you start to think since young.
Let me point out some more cost:

1.. Chiller + freezer bout 1.5k each(2nd hand)
2. Sign board- bout 2-3k
3. License from local authority
4. Shutter
5. Tiles for kitchen parts
6. Those stainless steel stall cost 1-2k (again 2nd hand)
7. Lighting and fan
8. Don think utility bill will be so cheap
9. Working capital-- buying cigarettes, canned drink and etc

Renovation depends on how big is your shop. Rm5k definitely too less as you need tiles and partition.

Old already, can't think too much. Update you when I thought of something.
Anyway, good job and keep it up. Dare to dream!

I believe making good plans is the first step to succeed. Often we say, if you fail to plan, you're planning to fail, and it's absolutely true.

Dreams make people have "goals", of course not those ridiculous dreams. And to make the dreams come true, we need action plans, and the first step I do is doing some research, by net and by mouth, then draft out a plan. It gives me a picture.

Anyway, it's still too young for me to start, but it isn't too young for me to dream and think. I'm still taking my bachelor, just first year first sem...

Hmm, out of topic for a while...

I always see people posting "TS".

What does "TS" means?

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Added on April 6, 2011, 8:24 amThanks for the advice. Hehe

Wow...Nicely written comments.

1 & 2, I'm still finding a chance to meet with a woman (my mum's friend, also my friend's mum) who ever runs a coffee shop business but after she had a cancer (Correct medication has taken, she's now resting at home, no worries) she stopped it. Here, I see a lot of fridges and sign boards have the logo of some companies, eg: Coca Cola, Milo. According to my mum, and my relatives, those sign boards and fridges are sponsored by the companies. I don't know whether this is true but I believe it, the problem is just how to get sponsored and whether they'll sponsor you 100%, or just part of the cost. Still waiting the chance to meet the woman.

3, Do you mean the licence from the government/city council???

4, Shutter comes together with the shop, this is what I can confirm

5, This depends on my luck also, some shops come tiled. However, I think I should consider it as a cost first. Thanks and thank also for people who have mentioned this above

6, I've done some oral research and yeah, can buy 2nd hand's stainless steel stalls. And I think, not only RM1~2k?? I'd assume they will cost me around RM3k to maybe RM5k, still need to ask the woman mentioned above

7, I don't really worry about this, since my mum works in an electrical appliance shop for more than 20 years already, and I'm quite familiar with these stuff (because everyday see them ). Anyway, after seeing the replies here, and walking around, I assume these will cost me RM1k or more.

8, Haha...I think they can cost me more, but the figure I posted above, is an estimation, based on my mum's office bills...I questioned the accountant about the amount of electricity, water bills the company used per month

9, 100 times thank you for mentioning this. When I was making this post, I was thinking that what I'd missed out. I felt that I missed something, and yeah that's it. The cost for initial stock!!! Another R5k here I guess.

Yea, I underestimate the renovation, sorry for being ignorant. I think It'll cost at least RM10k here...

Again thanks for those advices and replies!!!

This post has been edited by jeenhao: Apr 6 2011, 08:24 AM

If you plan to spend 50K (an assumed figure) be sure to spare another 20K for contigencies. What I have always experienced is, the money flows away real fast during the renovations. You might need to do this after that or that again after this. Tiling and rental deposits are the two most highest expenditure. You mentioned a kitchen and that means the kitchen has to be tiled up at least 5 feet high plus the floor (minimum, some municipality wants the shole shop). You will also need contigencies because everything in the shop is running daily, unlike a home. Chillers and freezers are are running 24/7 and the older your fridge is the higher the electricity bill. Water and electricity runs on commercial rate and not the same as the rates at your home so the bill is averagedly 1K a month and some running as high as 2K for a single shoplot. Water is averagely RM300 to RM500 depending on how you control your stalls.

As for stainless steel stalls, try to select those without dents as old and dented stalls looks very ugly and put off! As for workers wise, you can actually get the stalls to subsidise by giving bowls, plates collection and washing. You assign your worker to do it and you charge the stalls an extra RM8 a day (market price here in KL). So you save one workers wage. Don't worry, a 'kopitiam' like yours are not that hard to manage, being that size. Only problem is, USUALLY , it is always easy to plan and think (it's OK, I can work 12 hours a day) but when the times come, it will become so routinely boring that almost all want to give up. Like waking up at dawn and opening the cafe, boil water, clean the tables etc.etc. If you have the will, I am sure you will succeed and I am sure situation in Miri is not that hectic like KL/PJ.

Good Luck

Thanks for your advice.

Hmm...I'd just run a coffee shop business that operates from 6am to around 2pm to 3pm. I get used of waking up early in 6am even if my class is in the noon...so if I want to run the business, I just need to get up half or one hour earlier, which is not a problem for me.

The bills amount I actually get it from the company which my mum works for, and of course I did top up the number a bit. Not sure about what will be going on when business starts. Things always do not go as smooth as we plan.

Operating a coffee shop in Miri isn't that hard, I mean daily basis life. Wake up early, open, do your work then go home. As my mum says she only wants to take money, well, cashier will be her. LOL. And now I'm searching for opportunity for myself to work in a coffee shop to learn how to make those drinks, and also some food and beverage management.

Better you go work in a coffee shop for at least 6 mths. Then, only plan to start one yourself.

Don't worry, I'm still 19

I got a lot of 6 months. Hehe...

whr is ur location in miri? good luck to ur business

Haha...any extra meaning behind???