Just to add on, personally I do not do searches anymore as they are not nearly as useful. High court auction normally clears everything and those with caveats, I noticed nowadays all POS actually puts it down in writing under endorsements. Given the number of auctions I go to, it is quite a significant savings. And if you know the auctioneer well, just call and ask them if they noticed anything in their land search. They need to do a search just before an auction.

1. I remembered you are happy to register despite me advising not to, to prevent others kacau-ing. But now you are afraid of artificial bidders? why should they do that? If they end up taking the properties, then they had to pay for it.

The condition is as is where is, correct. But most POS nowadays for high court actually reads that the bank will absorb most of the outstandings, inclusive of utilities (this was the case 1 year plus ago). I won't go into the very detail of the law, but if you have a good lawyer, there is a limit to what you need to pay to the management if there is outstandings and the POS clearly states that the bank will not pay for it.

There is no S&P in auction. It is called a memorandum of contract. You cannot move in straight away even though you are the beneficial owner. You are not the registered owner as the registered owner is still in the borrower's name. The bank has been assigned the rights to auction off the property but as the succesful bidder you are not given the same rights. If you choose to break and enter, you will do so at your own risks.

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Added on April 16, 2012, 12:25 amThe power vested in both high court and land office are similar though most prefers to go through high court. I guess perhaps for some locations without a high court, the bank may choose land office over high court.

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Added on April 16, 2012, 12:34 am1. Auctioneer cannot withdraw an auction. They need to apply to court to withdraw the auction.

2. The bank would not have caveat. They have charges. The property is charged to the bank. The bank need to remove their own caveat just before they want to charge the property. Without the caveat removal, they cannot charge the property.

3. They can be more than 1 caveats. But "priority" will be given to the caveatable interests and the earliest caveats. Whoever puts in first will have more interests than the next person. Bank will never have caveats unless it is in the midst of charging the property. Banks have charges.

This post has been edited by michaellee: Apr 16 2012, 12:34 AM

Hi, thank you for your support. Just one point to note, as with all my other advices, this is not the season to build up debts. If you asked me 3 years ago, I believe the challenge would be to see who has the highest debt (ie, will make more money). In a cloudy environment like the one we are facing right now, it is good to make sure you have enough savings to see you through at least 6 months of bank repayments. Cheers!

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Added on April 17, 2012, 8:09 amIt is not the bank job to check if someone has avoided income tax. In fact, if any, your friendly local banker will offer you advices on how to get loan if you have evaded or under declare your income.

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Added on April 17, 2012, 8:11 amI don't do searches anymore though I do not recommend this to new investors. The reason for me is simple. Caveat can be remove, but it does take time, so be prepared to pay 100% but having said that if you have paid for it 100% then to get refinancing, then your interests are not tax deductible. But you do need to look out for government caveats and normally agents who wish to do my business will warn me enough without having me to go do a search.

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Added on April 17, 2012, 8:12 amThe only factor in delaying a high court auction is the auctioning bank and their failure to give proper and relevant documents on time. All others are standard and should be done quite quickly by your lawyer.

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Added on April 17, 2012, 8:36 amThe bank holds the title and a copy of the FACILITIES AGREEMENT. SPA has nothing to do with the bank. In the facilities agreement which you have signed (obviously favouring banks), if you default, the bank has a right to increase interests. And ultimately in some cases, these interests compound and makes it impossible for some to pay. Once the property goes into NPL, then the bank will need to apply to court via their solicitors (not necessary the lawyer that prepared the facilities agreement) to auction off the property. Only the court can grant the bank the right to auction and also only the court can call off an auction. No one else can.

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Added on April 17, 2012, 8:42 amThank you all for your kind remarks.

When bank negara places LTV of 70% it means that there is something really wrong with our property market and hence the need for a cooldown. My personal believe has always been that there will be a need for some correction as the property market is no longer serving the mass market. The majority of the salary earners cannot afford a simple roof over their heads. Hence the need for the government to come up with some radical policies. For most of us who has not witness the 97 crisis, should speak to someone who had invested prior to that crisis and get a feel of what had happened. What is happening now seemed to be mimical to what has happened then. In summary, my advice is not too be too "greedy" and overcommit in such market. I do know the ways to play around but yet for all the loans I have signed up last year and this year are all in the 70% (and more recently 60% for company loans). Alternatively, you can move to commercial properties for higher margins.

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Added on April 17, 2012, 8:45 amFor the current market, the best properties worth bidding are not those that are 30% below market value. Try to get those which are around 10% below market value as they offer no competition and you actually get something cheap. For those 30% ones, you attract the whole china into the auctioning room and with emotion very often it is pushed above market value. I have given up on hot properties except those in 7 figures as there are ways to make money as long as there are santa clauses. And yes I do believe they exist.

This post has been edited by michaellee: Apr 17 2012, 08:45 AM

Government caveat is a different ball game and only the government can remove the caveat. Having paid cash like I mentioned above would not mean you are already the registered owner. You need the property to be transferred to your name before you can rightfully and legally move in.

Yes. You will get the balance back. But bear in mind, there are a lot of expenses incurred in auctioning off a property so please do not be too optimistic.

I do not really comment about politics as lowyat has some really tight assed people who loves to discuss politics as if they are Najib's personal aide. So will be refraining political talks for the moment. Cheers!

Hahaha, I am not that afraid of big brothers la. Semua boleh diselesaikan. It is the herd mentality (especially those working in singapore) forumers that are beyond discussions. Everything about Malaysia is bad. Everything about BN is bad. Everything about Singapore is good. Everything about PAP is good. Personally, my believes are simple. My one (two if you consider state assemblies a different thing) vote will go to whoever I feel at CURRENT situation best serve my interests. I can be a greedy businessman, but I look after myself first.

If you look at DAP's Penang, is that the model we want? What about PAS's Kelantan and Kedah? Would you be happy under that system? And PKR's Selangor? What about BN's Malaysia? If you asked me seriously, malaysia's fundamental political system is very flawed as legislators and executioners and enforcers are all bundled into one. If you have good separation, it will be good for all. Having said that, though politics play a role in property prices, I believe our current situation, it is more of a global effects and government policies of a free system that would have the greatest impact on properties.

To be honest, it is OPTIONAL for us to share our experiences. And OPTIONAL for us to share with those that we wish to share it with. The way you have asked me both in private message and on open forum is as if I owe my living to you and unfortunately that's not the case. Especially even after giving you GOOD advices, you questioned as if you must know the reasons behind even though we have decided to stop sharing. Remember, it is OPTIONAL for us to share not compulsory and I am pretty sure I have provided enough lead for people to google and read up further to decide. You, on the other hand, refuses to read up and learn. Cheers.

Sad to say in Malaysia in the last 1 year or so has been practising the same procedures which I think has more good than bad. In the ever challenging auction landscape, rules are ever changing. Personally I would have went for registration at 9am. I think in the POS it does mention that you need to register before 9.30am. Just need to read it again, i supposed. Auction starting time is dependable on the registrar. And the amount of auctions for that day. Auction is said to start at 10.30am. It will start anytime from 10.30 onwards. Unfortunately you live by their rules. I have seen a lot of time wasting. But unfortunately there is nothing much you can do. I will check in at 9am and go for a quick meeting and back before 10.30 to save time. I had to wait a bit after 12pm the longest so far.

This practise of increasing the reserve price has been happening since 1 year ago when they sort of reform the entire country's high court auction system. POS seemed to be standardised and if you read carefully, it says that if there are more than 2 bidders, they will raise the reserve price. Do blame the auction snakes who had been out there trying to outsmart the system. Unfortunately for genuine bidders, it will prove to be a hassle. One final word of advice, do learn to play by their rules. Otherwise your only other option is NOT to bid at all. Cheers and good luck.

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Added on April 20, 2012, 11:13 pmNot too sure on that, perhaps someone else can help. My stories are all from personal experiences. Cheers.

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Added on April 20, 2012, 11:14 pmFor the first story, it is impossible and I don't think the court registrar would want to risk his or her job by increasing the price if there is ONLY ONE bidder. However, if there are more than one bidder, then it is stated quite clearly in the POS, that the court has the power to increase the first bidding price.

This post has been edited by michaellee: Apr 20 2012, 11:14 PM

Not true for high court cases. Unfortunately some would actually blacklist the bidders if they refuse to bid at the increased price. I know it had been done before and seriously there is nothing you can do about it. Afterall, if you want to go auction, then you have to follow the high court rules.

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Added on April 22, 2012, 12:53 amThey can set the increment level they want and there is really nothing you can do about it. In fact that system does weed out the non-serious bidder, sad to say.

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Added on April 22, 2012, 12:55 amDeposits will not be forfeited but unfortunately for some high courts, they will ban you and blacklist you for a duration of time. If it is a single bidder then that person would have won the auction at the reserve price and would need to pay the balance within the 120 days stipulated time.

I find it interesting that up until now, there are still some people who cannot tell the differences between high court/land office auction and LACA. There are two entirely different types of auctions and have different rights to the bidders.

This post has been edited by michaellee: Apr 22 2012, 12:55 AM

LACA is a different ball game and the reason is because the rights to bidder is definitely not as strong as those given in high court. Some banks for LACA even offered 5% downpayment.

It wasn't the norm some 1 year ago. It became a norm when the snakes are plying their businesses like nobody's business. These measures are supposed to be there to protect genuine bidders and to prevent hanky panky. AFAIK, the POS has spoken quite clearly about it.

Yeah it is under the National Land Code, but you can be certain that sometimes NLC is not being followed. I had once went to an auction where there were more than 200 bidders and increasing as there is a Maybank branch beside the land office, so people were asking their relatives to go to the bank and buy bank drafts (so that they can share the presents santa clause has brought) until ADO came out and said the auction is off due to irregularities. He does have the power to do so given and his reasons were that he was afraid there may be a riot later. There is also this other land office case where the auction was called off after registration close which was against NLC given that there were no irregularities and plenty of genuine bidders. A few gungho people wanted to challenge the ADO with police called in by many "strongly connected" individuals and press. But yet land office rules. Would anyone actually troubled themselves to sue the land office?

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Added on April 22, 2012, 7:23 pmNot true. You can always give a certified copy of your IC to your agent and let them register. I don't know who you can complain if the high court dares to reject your agent. Fact is, they don't even know if it was your agent that inserted the bank draft. Normally for high court, you need to deposit your things into a box.

This post has been edited by michaellee: Apr 22 2012, 07:23 PM

To be honest, if you have not given your bank draft to your agent then I supposed the bailiff is right in rejecting. If it was an auction I am going for, and there is someone who is late, I would raise my objections as well. But I supposed with this experience, in future you will be more aware of timing issues. Good luck.

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Added on April 23, 2012, 10:45 amThere is a couple of time, when I realised that there is no subsale in that region and I die die want to have the location, I am happy to pay a slightly above market premium in auction. The beauty of auction if you are a snaky person, is you can reap a lot of benefits post auction.

This post has been edited by michaellee: Apr 23 2012, 10:45 AM

In fact post auction is where the actions are. When do you move in? When do you renovate? When do you chase the inhabitants out? How do you chase the inhabitants? Who are the people you use for your work done? Etc. I have a few advantages as I have a team which had been doing all these for me. Like the bankers who would approve the loan quickly so that the lawyer who would make sure my loans are drawn on time, then having the necessary people to make the appropriate police reports, breaking into the house via a various numbers of means (tailored to individual inhabitant), to schedule workmen to work. These are the exciting part of auction. To share my latest experience. I bought this run down house from auction in the second week of April at RM230k. Managed to convince one of my tenants to take the place at RM3,500 per month with the condition I can settle them in before the end of this month with the rental to start in May. Managed to get bank loan in third week of April with lawyers preparing drawing down this week. Work began last thursday with nearly 15 workmen and will be done by today. Furnitures will come in wednesday, electrical fridge, tv, washing machines on thursday. Tenant will move in friday. All in all precise clockwork. It can be done if you have the experiences and the team which has been following you. My workers have been with me for more than 8 years.

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Added on April 23, 2012, 3:16 pmAs per my above post, the biggest advantage with auction is that I could use the property straight away. Of course this is if you know how to do the right things and pull the right lever. The thing is, if you have known me in real life, I bet 50% of your purchases will be from auctions, with the occasional "don't mind the above market price premium" paid. I could probably get back some of these premiums from the 120 days draw down period.

This post has been edited by michaellee: Apr 23 2012, 03:16 PM

Honestly, i have yet to used the legal methods of getting the inhabitants out. Perhaps I have been lucky. One thing I always do is to pay the inhabitant a visit prior to the auction and explain my situation to them. And tell them that I am a better "winning bid" compared with others as at least I am more compassionate and willing to negotiate when they need to go. Once I even offered to pay for the lorry to bring their stuffs to the new place.

You bought and kena litigation?

There are plenty of fake datuks around.

Not true la. These people are out to make money. If you contact them, they will give you info on the auction which they can either claim commission from you or from the bank or some even worse, claiming from both. I don't think it will reduce the property price as most people nowadays are not that dumb. They would do their homework and ask around before selling their house.

What your in law said is reasonable. A place filled with auction usually means people with poor credit credibility have bought. Either you have confidence that the place will be bought by people with good credit and will build up the place, otherwise the auction will be a perpetual problem.

Sorry I should add on, I hope your place will turn for the better.

This post has been edited by michaellee: Apr 26 2012, 12:50 PM