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 Degree in Mathematics, How to start

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RyukA
post Mar 1 2011, 08:13 AM

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QUOTE(bgeh @ Mar 1 2011, 07:26 AM)
zeeyang: I suggest you do not pick a degree in pure math beforehand. Most universities offer general degrees in mathematics, and you can easily choose to specialise in your later years. In fact I'd say that most degrees in pure mathematics give you an option of transferring to a general degree in mathematics or even applied ones.

kasutdidi: I'm doing a maths degree (postgrad), and many of my friends from undergrad have gone on, or are going into: Investment Banking and Finance, Actuary (yes, you don't need to be an actuarial science student to be one), Engineering in Industry, IT, etc, etc, so it's not exactly a degree that locks you into becoming a lecturer alone. You actually usually have more options than a student doing a 'popular' degree.

Would Further Mathematics help? Definitely, but you'll be redoing a lot of the same material in a different way. Undergrad-level maths is a bit different from what we're usually used to in school and in A-levels, in the sense that it emphasizes on rigour and proofs.

As for unis, most IPTAs would be good, NUS and NTU are pretty good too for the regional ones. For the UK (well, England), usually Imperial, Warwick, Oxford and Cambridge's maths programmes are the highly regarded ones, but I'd say that I've met people from Nottingham, Bristol, Liverpool and York and they're pretty good too. The Welsh universities are also quite good.
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A slight correction to the AS part:

Going into, and coming out is a totally different story.
But with sufficient knowledge, a liking in Statistics and strong interest Mathematical Finance,
makes things easier, except alot of reading/research must be done to get hold of the ways these models are
applied within Business context.

RyukA
post Mar 1 2011, 11:42 PM

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QUOTE(bgeh @ Mar 1 2011, 11:26 PM)
Well that generally applies to all the different subjects I've listed above (engineering comes to mind too), that there will be a transition period and that the transition will involve a learning process. But the tradeoff is that you get a lot more flexibility than the specialised degree would get you.
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That would depend on the proposed course structure which differs from each school.
Of course, flexibility trades off exposure as well.
Having courses taught by engineering practitioners and learning by self-study
can give very different outcomes.
But of course, the rate of input for each person is distinct as well, which may explain why someone would see certain option more beneficial than others, while
the complement case is possible as well.

RyukA
post Mar 2 2011, 08:14 PM

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QUOTE(bgeh @ Mar 2 2011, 08:34 AM)
I'd be inclined to disagree there, as general Mathematics courses allow a lot of flexibility to choose courses within the degree. A degree in Mathematics, without having done any statistical courses wouldn't get you close to being an actuary at all, and employers would easily filter those candidates out, but the option remains for those who are interested in general Mathematics but are thinking of becoming an actuary to take up statistics-related courses to see if they're really up for it, or whether they're better off doing other pursuits.

As for the engineering bit, I'd disagree, because what tends to happen is that the trainees are usually trained up for the job while doing it. They might lack the relevant knowledge, but it usually isn't hard for them to master the mathematics behind them, which speeds up the process considerably, and they get hands on experience all the time while working, so the skills gap usually isn't as big as thought after a year or so.

I'm just advertising this little known fact, because I think plenty of people don't take up the mathematics degree option thinking it closes down on many possible career paths, when in fact, with some work it expands horizons quite a bit.
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Rather than going to weird ends where disagreeing on something I didn't even agreed upon.
Let me get my facts right:

1) A mathematic degree has its own uniqueness, as we know no matter which field one is to emerge into, mathematic is an esseintial tool to make things work

2) My analogy is simply direct:
A specialist degree is best taught by the specialist itself.
The depth of coverage is distinct from each school, whether they would touch into more conceptual details, depend on the course structures.

3) depending on local economy demands, and sustainability, it is a fact that certain degree is not so well promoted than others in a society. people react to incentive, and with asymmetrical information provided, choices are distorted. It is nothing to do with right or wrong, but the fact what specific field the economy is focussing on, will be the movement of choices.

4) As we know, in a career both Practical experience, technical skills and knowledge is equally important. I wouldnt argue to rank these factors by priority in general. but for each distinct job/career, the proportion of these factors varies accordingly. Similarly saying, there is a difference between academic-oriented jobs and practical-oriented jobs.

5) I am in no way discouraging juniors to take on mathematic or general degrees, but to imply that, "If you want to be a specialist,
do consider taking a specialist degree than a general degree" as it gives u the relevant exposure, training and knowledge to work in that particular
specialized field.
e.g. A mathematic degree holder can always do a masters in Engineering to become a qualified engineer. but think again for those that HAD decided to become an engineer, since u decided to become an engineer, why not take a 4yrs engineering degree program instead?

6) to be clear, my argument is centred on comparative advantage which explains with this scienario, relevant exposure A may be preferred than B. But in no way to imply A will always be better than B for each case. To acknowledge each field of study is unique, and the way everyone make decision is unique as well.

RyukA
post Mar 22 2011, 02:49 PM

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QUOTE(zeeyang @ Mar 22 2011, 12:35 AM)
I have great interest in maths - not only because maths is crucial for problem solving, but the the logical sequence of mathematics, precision of calculation and the behavior of numbers attract me more than anything else that I know of. This may sounds far-fetched, but if I am to be involved in any research during Masters or PhD, I would rather be doing some research in mathematics compared to anything else.

However, I must say, having grown up in a typical Asian family, I am successfully brain-washed to think that only a professional degree is considered as a 'good' degree. Eg. Law, doctor, engineer etc. Heck, when I try to think about my interest after SPM, I only singled out profession that involves mathematics such as engineers, actuarial science, maths lecturer etc.

I am doing my Pre-U now and soon the time to choose my pathways will come. A degree in mathematics or engineering? I would still need confidence and assurance should I ever consider to pick up a mathematics degree. Assurance as in the form of job prospects and how well a mathematics degree prepares the graduates for their future.
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Lol. there is no assurance in a Mathematical pathway. Unless going and spending the rest of your life Teaching, writing books, or researching. math alone cant bring you far.
Even if you look closely at Nobel awards, there's no award in mathematics, because math alone is not useful, but if you want to prove its ability, you will have to prove and explain how such theorem contributes to
realistic/real-life application, which explains why Mathematicians can win awards in Economics, Sciences, Astronomy, Finance etc.

Having said that, you will probably like to look at math, a different way. It will be more like a tool to use, than a field of study.
Of course in a Math degree, you learn things in Fundamental theorems, proof, and arguments. Having learnt these root of thoughts, this is what help u understand
the mathematical nature of many sciences, economics, dimensions.

It is nearly ab impossible task to single-out careers without Math in it. We use math so often that we sometimes dont realise whether such analysis/idea fall within the mathematical boundary.
It is just the weightage of math that counts in different career fields.

Like how I said many times before, its more on Which type of math do you like, than whether do you like math.
But of course everyone approaches a matter with different thoughts & methods, it will be highly reasonable for everyone to like different type of math.
hence, there's no assurance, the assurance is your own ability to utilise what u learn in Uni.
RyukA
post Mar 24 2011, 07:29 AM

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QUOTE(bgeh @ Mar 23 2011, 08:41 AM)
There's the Fields Medal, and what pretty much everyone agrees right now is the best theoretical physicist alive today has one, but not a Nobel Prize (but I digress, because Nobel Prizes do not imply usefulness):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Witten

zeeyang: Chase your dreams. You'd be much happier you did, even without a certain career pathway at the end of your degree. I'm not 100% certain whether I'm going on to do a PhD, but I know I've got a lot of job choices in the 'real world'.

Send me a PM if you've got other questions.
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No one nor I, am implying that Mathematics by itself is totally useless. but to address the fact that Mathematic as a tool, is best utilized when working with another discipline. Nor am I gonna emphasis or do any research regarding what type of award mathmaticians can win, I am highlighting a social fact that there are fields where there's a high concentration of Mathematical element in it, but most of us did not realise its application, and how it relates to Math.

I believe the very big difference between a Math degree and a science,economics, finance, accounting degree is the distinction between theoretical and practical approach.

Speaking from experience,
I have seen how math students comment about the lack of Math in Accounting related subjects, which I highlighted to them "theories of Set, Sample Space,progressions" is basically what that works behind
the logic to do Consolidations, elimination and the nature of Dual Balance.

In terms of teaching as well,
within the actuarial framework, the approach of lecturers from Mathematical backgrounds, those with industrial-exposure and those who are statisticians, although all provide teachings regarding the same actuarial
mathematics, but their approach can greatly differ. Some may do more "proving" in class, some tells you to stick to the formula and learn elements of the formula how it relates to practicality, some always
adapt a root principal and build things up from there. Of course in particular, they are not ranked in anyway, but to understand there's pros and con's in each method.

Having privately consulted by few juniors re: AS itself, I am kinda worried the understanding of Math to youngsters nowadays (particular those that just completed SPM,STPM), it had became too arithmetic based.
Many times, one often self-induce that I am good in counting, good with numbers, fast with numbers, hence I am good in Math. My primary concern is students should diversify their understanding towards mathematics. And realise how Math is equally applied practically in a variety of studies. I am in no way trying to disprove the theoretical approach of Mathematics, I am just trying to remind future students do keep an open mind in choosing courses, there's a variety of courses that need people with good mathematical skills, at the same time, one have to be sure what he/she wants to achieve with a Math degree and whether this pathway can provide you your expectation, according to individual interest.

Nothing oversensitive, just for them to keep an open-mind.

 

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