Are property prices going to drop? V2

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Financial Are property prices going to drop? V2, The heated debate continues

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Bobby C	Jun 10 2011, 10:11 AM Return to original view \| Post #41
On my way Senior Member 663 posts Joined: Oct 2008	QUOTE(REfreako @ Jun 9 2011, 10:56 AM) Average salary 2k or whatever that is much lower. Regardless of you are a fresh grad or primary school level. No need to go n look for good boss, your salary is the reflection of how important you are in the market or to the society. If you are capable and able to grab what the future needs and short of. (THE GOOD BOSS WILL COME TO LOOK FOR YOU AND APPRAISE YOUR SALARY APPROPRIATELY) If you are a just an average joe or store keeper that carry out routine job then don't complain, the limit of your level is only there either you upgrade yourself or lag behind the race. The world is like that if everybody also high income there will be no rich and poor differences. If that's the case developer sell 100 unit of ideal house that 1000 people with high income fit for the house price tag, who will get it? Stop being ignorant there are alot of rich people in malaysia, I got friends earning 6 figure a year and that's normal. Our age just early 30. Guess you miss the point. Whether rich or not so rich, everyone deserve basic human rights ie clean water, secure flats, clean corridor, working lifts, road without potholes, drain v proper cover, good public transport w/o wasting 3-4hrs on the road etc. Problem is even the rich also suffer from similar issues. Hello, we are paying 4-5 figures income taxes to those sitting at the high chair. 20 yrs down the road, we will be giving away one medium cost condo to the gomen. Of course everyone whether rich or not so rich got the right to ask where our money gone? >30 yrs they have been sucking crude oil, 5-10 yrs down the road oil field drying out, we will start to import crude oil. 1.4 mil civil servants and their family to feed. 50% of gomen revenue from crude oil. Everyone with sane mind should have started asking many yrs ago where the money gone before too late. Still want to let them continue to plunder? We got hundreds and some over a mil investments in this country that we call home. We are asking how can billion ringgit leakages allow to happen every yr? Whether our money will become banana notes in the near future when oil fields drying out? If so better sell all the properties before too late. As value of money getting smaller each day, earning 6 figures no big deal really. As said before, my close buddy SPM graduate businessman acquiring lands/properties like every 3 mths. People remain low profile and not making big fuss in the net. Value yourself in terms of salary? Tat's cheap human mindset.
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Bobby C	Jun 10 2011, 06:18 PM Return to original view \| Post #42
On my way Senior Member 663 posts Joined: Oct 2008	Yup, student market should be quite save with the amount of new colleagues built and expanding in the country. Additional 4 mil population by 2020? Probably more foreigners expected to take over the country, coupler with low cost budget carriers. Low cost expats and student market should be safest. Forget about KLCC type of high end market, well unless extreme small one some may still afford. Yup, property cheaper than regional so what. Unless you are regional business men traveling all around every wk/mth. Else what for, no income generation like Florida holiday homes? Err, new MRT? Foreign expats come here to take MRT? What they need is a high value businesses and industries so they can afford to pay high value rent like what Spore is offering. The MRT will be a plus to for them to beat 10 mil population stuck in the jam.
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Bobby C	Jun 13 2011, 01:24 PM Return to original view \| Post #43
On my way Senior Member 663 posts Joined: Oct 2008	QUOTE(sunzi69 @ Jun 11 2011, 02:57 AM) it's me again, 25 year old fresh grad who's complaining can't afford to buy property... well, to conclude a bit.. basically, there are 2 camps arguing in this forum ..those who ady in the boat, n another was people like me..can't afford to buy... Those ady in the boat( Developers, Bankers, Valuers, houseowners, Investors, Speculators) (play monopoly b4? u guys are as if those just bought the "little green n red" house earlier and setting high prices, and worst still, the 100 u earned last time is different with what we earned 100 this time...we are those "late comers" who came into the show n realized that " OMG.. it's freaking expensive...with the poor salary $200 collected every round, we keep on paying rental n taxes, yes ,of coz, we will broke soon, just admit it, this is the design of capitalism, n we have to admit it, it doesn't fair to late comers) I do notice 1 forumer mentioned that "Demand is there" ..no worries...but do you understand the principle of economy is that "inverse relationship between demand and price"? now all properties incl condo ady Sky high price - even though u willing to sell, young ppl willing to buy (but bank may not approve with relatively so low salary...) and pls don't blame the graduates that earning so little..it's not our fault... I see many hardworking and talented graduates are performing exceptionally outstanding in academic and co-curriculum but as i said, u good in studies may not indicate good in "earning $$$".... there's no direct relationship.... what i could say our economy is distorted n sucks.... we have many high quality of graduates but with well trained, they can become somebody..believe me... I use "Finance services" in economy as an example to give us a better picture... Current M'sia job market:- For example, take a finance major grad- who learned simply everything from A to Z in finance, how to hedge ,by what products (SWAP, forwards, futures) or how to price it? To apply Enterprise Risk Management to manage interest rate risk, liquidity risk, forex risk...To explain Basel III capital requirement ..Capital Market Master Plan..Ratio analysis..Bond Valuation..n etc) wow- U.S and UK syllabus... great!!! I believe my UK syllabus is exactly same as what Singaporean learning as well ..but the difference is they got very good internship exposure n can landed on a very good first job...We Malaysia finance graduates most of the time doing the following:- Banking jobs "generally" available in Job market of Malaysia - In Generally- promoting credit card, personal loan, credit processing, credit recovery, balance transfer , etc....... (Why our salary so low?? Simply, Bolehland can't attract FDI to produce high quality jobs who paid high salary) take http://www.efinancialcareers.sg/ as example (as at 11/6/2011 1.36am) 1) to sort "jobs in Singapore" > results show Showing 1-30 of 1104 jobs 2) to sort "jobs in Malaysia" > results show Showing 1-28 of 28 jobs (lol - pity us...SG had 39 times more than us ) (i pity myself too, perhaps i'm a loser why i'm not 1 of it that working in Raffles place in SG too...hehe) Have a look MALAYSIA JOB MARKET (derived from Jobstreet.com.my - Banking and finance jobs) [SIZE=7]SINGAPORE JOB MARKET (derived from efinancialcareer- Banking and finance jobs)[ My point of view... Singapore HDB (good quality houses, and can't compare at all with Malaysia low cost flat(some called it slum, and i admit), it respects the dignity and basic necessity for people who serve for the country) Singapore Private dwellings- it caters for investors or speculators like some of you reading in this thread...if u got money, buy la..., no 1 will object) Malaysia- whoever who invest in stock market also knew... we ady lost FDI support long long time ago...now whose money to support the market at the level of 1500 ??? u tot our economy is really that good?? (YOUR ALL or OUR ALL own EPF money la, or our future generation MONEY) aiyar.. I 25 years old.. i also know la..b4 general election come.. wow..stock market good..property market good..strong currency ...visionary future greater KL plan....100 mega storey... simple economics theory, 3 pillars to boost the economy.. 1) Export (b4 1997 crisis strategy- 4 little tiger ah....hehe...die soon la..totally lose out to Indonesia, China, Vietnam, Bangladesh, we ady stuck in middle income trap economy) 2) Private Consumption (last few years strategy la- c our household debt now, look layman beside u, every month after pay instalment, how much they leave??) 3) Government Spending (Last shot la- copy Dr.M strategy, Petronas Twin Towers, KLIA, now we have 100 Stories Tower, MRT project, Iskandar, Greater KL) Last time also got what MSC ah, CyberJaya ah, sigh...we always very "visionary" but in terms of execution ...sucks... so...to attract pool of talents?? on what grounds?? 1) higher inflation 2) low salary 3) high property price 4)high crime rate 5)high traffic congestion rate 6)highly career prospect?? perhaps i think 1)nasi lemak 2)rojak 3)kajang satay 4)roti canai are the factors who could attract the talents back....ahahahaha Singapore- Higher property price value can be justified (limited land,the value they created in their job, efficiency, strict law and regulation that do not tolerate corruption, friendly business environment, safety,etc) Malaysia - on what grounds we property so expensive??? - limited land ar???? - our economy is so "good"??? - very high demand??? (many expats wanna come here to live, work n play???) so..Minister n people.. dun always use the stupid reason to make comparison to compare la.... our oil and gas is still the cheapest in the region ( see Singapore how much, hey, we producing oil n gas,ok?) our property prices are still very low in the region ( hey...ppl earning SGD ok ? ppl got HDB ok? u want all young ppl what ? staying in slum? or everyday travel from Seremban to KL ??) what i only knew.. not only our property prices in distorted our economy surely will burst soon..yeah n we all Malaysian n future generation paid for it... Come on la people( pls be considerate to the young ones, dun suka suka u guys still got option,> low cost flat, in fact, i been thru tat as well, everyday have to reach home earlier to fight for the car park, if too late, stuck ur car behind ppl car, then w/o ur handbreak, morning, let ppl move ur car freely up n down n pray earnestly not rolling down the slopes) at 1am when u need to sleep after a heavy work, pray those "black ppl" not getting drunk n having party n open disco, in fact, i ady make telephone call to report to Police many times, u know, how efficient is our public services, reach within 30 mins, tegur a bit, they stop the loud music a while, then continue again, if u go to argue with the "black ppl", they will belasah you...malicious damage to ur car" ... n hope do not bring back ur gf or if u happen to have a daughter, be afraid of sexual harrassment, rape, stalker or whatever u called it... drug addicits are common to c ...stolen cars ..motorcycle...n etc ) sigh ....Malaysia..... (Note- and i'm talking on a overview of macro picture n pls dun tell me how one individual is by all his efforts earning how much n how much...n telling me it's my fault that i earned less than RM10k a month, come on , just admit it ,it's a matter of fact our economy is almost stretch to the end ady and we all eyeing on the ETP....but ETP is just a vision , in terms of execution, many political factors discounted inside la) For young talent like you who major in finance, the only advise that can think of is Sg, HK & China. It's a pity looking at wats available in the local market. No point wasting your precious time follow the local 'rat race' chasing small little kosong pie. Sg, HK & China are financial hubs and many MNCs set up their HQs there. What is My? Hub of tongkat, BS, cakap kosong, politicking, racist fanatics, BN/PR blah blah all tons of rubbish. Wat you need is to build up a good resume ie joining well established company, even salary could be lower but reputation and relevant experience count in the end. Sky is the limit for those in finance/accounting in Sg, HK & China. It is mind bogging to hear the remunerations of those in finance and banking sector. Those early 30+ achieve 5 figures is nothing unless you are taking abt multiple 5 figures. Friend of mine a CFO mentioned for those high flyers, their track record was very important. When you are freshies, people will look at consistency of your education achievements up to secondary. When you have experience, work experience counts. Tat's incl the companies that you joint, relevant job scope/experience etc. Thereafter, after achieving some good track record overseas, then consider returning, pending whether Idris Jala is correct whether country will bankrupt by 2019, Ibrahim Ali and bunch of BS still around etc. In My, to make real money, only alternative is business/right investments. Rich under employment, probably top 1-3% in the co plus restriction of NEP tons of BS restrict your growth. Things diff in SG, HK and China. A lot of us, yup we may start early in monopoly game, but many are stuck in sunset industries, red ocean industries etc. Tat's why many resort to property investments as passive income. If only we can turn back time and join the blue ocean industries, oh well. Freshies should be very care what industry they are joining, even what books to study in uni. Study wrong books, opps, like many others with great results but salary not amazing. Again, study and work is different. Like friend of mine the SPM graduated businessman, looking at the way he negotiates, understanding of the market supply/demand, knowing how to work within the laws, rules, restriction and getting things approved, can even put a a PHD to shame. Our generation X those in IT, telecom, account doing better than docs, engineers and lawyers. Don't know abt generation Y. Another thing, don't believe too much those ETP, AP whatever. How are you so sure they will boost future property price? Let them prove first. Already enough white elephants and cock happening during the Legendary Old Man era, same pattern happening today. First of all, they are not sincere enough. Talk about ETP but you have Edu Minister than screw our education, cow head/bull head party going around, IA taking nonsense in main media etc allows to go around. You dare put faith in these bunch of BS to achieve 2020? Ok, enough s@@t for the day. May all the BS be with the politicians and their cronies. Added on June 13, 2011, 1:33 pm QUOTE(sampool @ Jun 12 2011, 12:49 PM) i m sure sg and hk gomen is well prepare for the next crash... more then my... as my still in feel good mode... Of course they are more than well prepared. Just check the schedule of mega development plans of Sg IRs/MRTs, HK Kai Tak redevelopment, all happen during time of uncertainly and crisis. Getting best price for mega projects and create employment to local people. 1 stone = 2 birds. Tat's to show how smart the gomen cp to My distorted brain dumbo. Development plans only prior to GE. Cakap kosong, money gone. This post has been edited by Bobby C: Jun 13 2011, 02:39 PM
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Bobby C	Jun 14 2011, 01:34 PM Return to original view \| Post #44
On my way Senior Member 663 posts Joined: Oct 2008	QUOTE(vanillasky91 @ Jun 14 2011, 07:47 AM) As a M'sian (33 yr old engineer) who has been working in UK for 10 years after graduated from the Uni, I am not sure when I will return to M'sia. I read a lots about the M'sia negative news online such as high rate of crime, high cost of living, unfair system to non-bumi etc. But here is different, low crime rate, employee right is highly respected, fair system to everyone regardless your colour etc. I work hard and get rewarded (overtime) and highly respected by Directors and colleagues. In the Western society, they look after employees including foreigners who work hard and contribute to the society. I am not too sure if this the same in M'sia? I always think I will go back as my parents and friends are there but in the meantime I worry I will regret if I go back too soon. I am kind of stuggle because I miss friends and family but at the same time I want to be succussful and achieve something for myself. Any senior/uncle advice will help me to clear my mind, thanks. I was away for also 10yrs in Oz and Sg. Again, before thinking of coming back, better be prepared mentally and accept tat's My's standard way of living, see no evil hear no evil say no evil, tat's have been going on for 53 yrs. Ask yourself what's your reason of returning, whether willing to make a big sacrifice and no regrets end of the day. Why not take a long holiday and experience for yourself daily living and whether you can accept tat. About job opportunities/salary, each industry is different. You have to do your own research. I got a cut when returned, managed to get the same in 3 yrs and now getting nearly double as what I got when in overseas. No big deal really just making a living but can be considered above average for the industry. End of the day is not how much you earn, it is how much you save and invest. Siok sendiri talk Current situation everyone can still happy go lucky tidak apa attitude, who cares. But serious think the next generation will not be so luck unless there is a major restructuring in the administration. We have a bunch of reckless idiots manage country funds, non of them responsible for their action. The remaining population remain mum as if nothing happen. Unlike Sg every penny counts. Seriously how long can it last? Oil is depleting fast, understand we will be importing in 5-8 yrs time. Some say less than 5 but nobody knows. Natural gas all the while everyone think we have abundant. Just last wk they said they will import electricity from Sg because insufficient of gas to the power stations, oil platform shutdown for maintenance blah blah. Think all BS, shut a oil platform can cause scarcity of gas in the entire country? A lot of things we commoners wouldn't know what actually happen behind the scene. 50% gomen revenue from O&G. Guesstimate each civil servant pay $2000 x 13 mth x 1.4 million = easily RM 36.4 billion just for civil service pay and not incl. those under pension fund. Most of us return for the family. Think it is good to prepare for alternative exit plans for the sake of family esp if you have kids; what next in 10-20 yrs down the road. While we are still here, just do what we can and hantam the idiots tat rape/abuse the nation for a small tiny hope tat our children can still call this place home. Tat's all. Anyway, just few yrs your senior and pls lah not yet uncle stage This post has been edited by Bobby C: Jun 14 2011, 01:44 PM
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Bobby C	Jun 16 2011, 01:11 PM Return to original view \| Post #45
On my way Senior Member 663 posts Joined: Oct 2008	Yup, Malaysia is a nice place to stay putting aside local politics. But can it stay the same 10-20 yrs down the road? All we know is things are deteriorating in terms of security, corruption index, racial policies, polarization, education, job opportunities etc etc. Think every single individual that born and breed here is responsible to ensure future of the next generation is secure in the land. 53 yrs is certainly too long for any party to stay in power in this planet earth. It is like firm endorsement for the same leaders and their sons/daughters to rule this land like a family business. Two party system is the way to go to have check and balance. Nobody is clean but at least corruption cases can certainly be reduced. We don't want to see the next generations working as cheap labors overseas like Indos and Filipinos. Signs are already there as so many of our family members and friends are working overseas and many have migrated and more to come. Influx of cheap foreign labors legal and illegal taking over this land. There are way to many Marcos and Suhartos in this country. Up to rakyat whether they want to see beyond their myopic view or continue tidak apa attitude. Do you want your properties devalue when all hell break lose? It will be too late. This is a fine blessed country. Used to travel quite often across the Causeway. Noticed significant change of landscape from Woodland high tech semi con factories to vast green palm oil plantations. Similar flying from dry desert Middle East across barren India continent and arrived on a green fertile land. Other countries they need to continue develop new technologies, businesses, factories so they can survive. Over here the natural, sun, rain and fertile soil is working for us. Why until todate many still struggling for survival? Something seriously no right. It is disheartening to see this country wasted away each day. Condemn the politicians and not the country, that's the root of all problems and everyone should shoot the bull eye till the regime collapse. That's consider contribution to the next generations and motherland. This post has been edited by Bobby C: Jun 16 2011, 01:30 PM
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Bobby C	Jun 16 2011, 01:42 PM Return to original view \| Post #46
On my way Senior Member 663 posts Joined: Oct 2008	Malaysians are talented people, Tony Pua, Farish Noor, Azmi Sharom, Ambiga etc etc. These people shall be in the ministerial level be it Finance, Education, Law. But there is another group of talent in the production industry. Almost fall out from the chair. Have a good laugh. http://www.youtube.com/user/nasilemak2020#p/u
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Bobby C	Jun 17 2011, 03:37 PM Return to original view \| Post #47
On my way Senior Member 663 posts Joined: Oct 2008	Prior to 2008, you can safely say it is a norm in KV new properties upon completion and handing over you gain ~10-20% luck >30% capital appreciation. Starting from mid 2008 till now, price hike is seriously unbelievable. A lot of us even friend of mine who bought one corner in SS2 within 1.5yrs asking for nearly x2. One asset outside KV we acquired early last yr now market price hike 70%. Are we happy? Sort of. But we are worry at the same time. This is not a norm, something never seen before in our short 10 yrs experience in property. Hope not like 1997 nobody ever imagine KLSE can go below 300. Of course property if go down 15-20% consider big deal, KLSE will probably crash below 900 and unemployment sky rocketed. Just keep fingers cross we are wrong.
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Bobby C	Jun 17 2011, 04:30 PM Return to original view \| Post #48
On my way Senior Member 663 posts Joined: Oct 2008	Seriously it is a no-brainer for those enter since late 2009 and make money. No need to shout, don't think you are smart, just pure luck. Those entered at the bottom of the valley right after early/mid 2009, those I called champions. Still remember one rich guy told me, now is the time, now or never, once a life time opportunities, tat was during mid 2009. Me too conservative looking at other opportunities missing the boats. No regrets, it's yours it's yours. Some time gain, thankful if don't lose. You can use FD as benchmark if for own stay. But if for rental, should use BLR. Capital appreciation is a bonus. I can roughly read sulifeisgreat mind, I understand what type of tea he is drinking. You need to be in his shoe else like chicken talking to duck. Those who loss money in property many outside KV. Still remember 10yrs ago (time flies like yesterday) when we bought our first, first banker asked, 'where'? KV, no problem. Penang, you tell me which part. Other places, need approval not so simple case by case basis you can try. When big mncs dumping money, we small fries no worries. When every ah soh, ah kow, tom d* and hairy start dumping money, we are worry. This post has been edited by Bobby C**: Jun 17 2011, 04:38 PM
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Bobby C	Jun 24 2011, 01:53 PM Return to original view \| Post #49
On my way Senior Member 663 posts Joined: Oct 2008	QUOTE(lch78 @ Jun 23 2011, 02:05 PM) Singapore has HDB, which citizens/PR can purchase a HDB flat as long as you got married without need to pay downpayment and the installment can be paid direct through CPF money. In other words, citizens/PR only need to find a spouse and they get to own a home without utilizing personal funds. Just to share some experience v Sg HDB flats. I used to stay in 4 types of HDBs before, from 2-star (2 bdrm) to 4-star (3+1 bdrm). Talking abt Sg HDBs, it is world most successful housing concept built by a gomen for the people. If My can emulate half of tat considered remarkable achievement. 1. Cleanliness. Every month they wash the corridor/staircase v high pressure water jet. 2. Cheap. Monthly maintenance fee to town council like <S$60 a 3 bdrm flat incl rubbish disposal, lift maintenance, cleaning/repair etc. 3. Well maintained. 6 yrs never experience lifts failure, got caught, walked up the stairs etc. 4. Well controlled pricing. Many restrictions. Only married couple, single above 35 etc. If rent out have to lock out 1 room etc. Yearly appreciation pending on area but averagely on par slight above bank interest rate. When price increase, gomen build more new ones so overall price diluted. Good for new home owners, not really good for investment. Certainly very hard for speculation. Restriction, rule and regulation also causing many Sporeans upon graduation, went registered for marriage not for love but for hdb then tak jadi sold off hdb and split ... (In My, you get council officers, exco member driving BM & MB sapu all low cost medium cost flats, rakyat kaki dalam mulut ) 5. CFP (EPF) can withdraw every mth to finance hdb. Fixed amount must be maintained as medical and retiring fund. 6. We only paid like <S$1000 per mth for 30yrs, mostly utilizing EPF money, hardly folk out cash. Cash amount payable per mth less than monthly rental. Even down payment if not mistaken using EPF. Too bad, I not married tat time couldnt keep so false to sell when sibling upgrade. In front of Tampines shopping malls/MRT, S$270k 'only', tat was nearly 10 yrs ago. Now heard still less than S$400k... like S$370k, another one can confirm? 7. You can borrow money from gomen with very low interest, sometimes lower than banks. You see how successful money spinning within the Sg gomen? CPF(gomen) --> HDB(gomen) --> Bank(gomen) --> You --> CPF(gomen). In MY, You --> Gomen --> Cronies --> Gone 8. Bomb shelter store room. If kena attack, many reserves with M16/sub-machine gun, snipers with high power super guns will be playing hide and seek from the store rooms, coming out shooting from nowhere. 9. ... blah-blah tons of good stories. In fact no need to stay in condo cause condition similar to MY condo except no swimming pool. Don't talke abt MY gomen housing lah. For private apartments even the carparks they also cannot plan but housing ministry can approve wor, park at road side everyday kena saman day/nite, break in/stolen blah blah. 2 types of thieves here, one legal, one illegal. How can tahan such idiots? MY residents still the best can tahen for 53 yrs. You ask for it, you da best This post has been edited by Bobby C: Jun 24 2011, 05:29 PM
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Bobby C	Jun 27 2011, 07:26 PM Return to original view \| Post #50
On my way Senior Member 663 posts Joined: Oct 2008	QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 27 2011, 05:53 PM) I don't understand on this part. If new launched properties is priced at 500k, how can subsale can be cheaper than 500K? If subsale can cheaper than 500k, then there will be a lot of people not interested to buy property again. If new launched properties is priced at 500k, then adjacent similar properties even previous worth 350k, seller will tell the buyer, they only want to sell with 500k. It is true my dear, new launched price is ridiculous, easily double or more than double price of sub-sale (3yr old price). Tat's why a lot of existing owners like us not worry of bubble or no bubble. Buyers for new launched buying at >$500 psf whereas we bought at $250 psf merely few yrs ago even now sub sale selling at $450 psf cheaper than new launch people will still go for new launched. Indirectly pull up the price of sub-sale. Smarter ones will go for sub-sale at good locations but there are only handful, majority blind followers want new new new but complaining expensive at the same time. People in the country too pamper lah, everything wanted to new, new house, new car, new i-pod, new wife blah blah. 2nd hand traders like us no worries of bubble or no bubble. Added on June 27, 2011, 7:42 pm QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Jun 27 2011, 03:29 PM) The only prices which are ridiculous are the prices of the new launches. Prime areas have been growing steadily for the past 10 years. Who asked u to buy new launches? I have always said this and im gonna say it again. FOCUS ON SUBSALE PROPERTIES NOT NEW LAUNCHES. Buying a property in the right area will get you excellent capital appreciation. So dont be foolish and claim that to avoid paying banks interest so u gonna rent. You will always be renting and u wont have anything at the end of the day. The only person that benefits will be the landlord. Trust me. Bear in mind that bank valuation for sub sale usually below sub-sale selling price. Buyers need to fork out additional cash as compare with buying from new launch, 90% or more under bank loan. So new launch ---> long term pain Sub sale ---> short term pain This post has been edited by Bobby C: Jun 27 2011, 07:42 PM
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