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 Qatar to host World Cup 2022, Is this a Joke?

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Duke Red
post Dec 3 2010, 11:01 AM

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This stinks of corruption. Putin didn't even bother to show up did he? I think Russia's apppointment will go down easier. I mean they have a professional league and have qualified for the World Cup numerous times. They have churned out several World Class players beginning with the legendary Lev Yashin. The downside is that travelling will be chore for fans especially during the knockout stages. The distance between Moscow and St. Petersburgh for example is 435 miles! I'm pretty sure they'll increase the number of flights between venues during that time but at what price I wonder? Thought that Spain and Portugal would have been a good choice.

Speaking about price, how much do you reckon it will cost a fan to live in Qatar for the duration of the World Cup? Russia has a huge landmass but Qatar is the direct opposite, comprising of only 1 city, Doha. They have half the population of Wales ffs. Can you imagine the traffic? They don't exactly have a rich football history either. There are huge social economic factors to consider. The fans contribute greatly to the vibrant colours at atmosphere at the World Cup, the pretty lasses in particular. So what now? No more pretty women in skimpy attire especially in that bloody heat? What about gay players or fans? What about Jewish fans? Heaven forbid (quite literally eh?) that Israel should qualify. Where does one get a cold beer to combat the sweltering heat? There aren't any pubs around and you'll have to be pretty darn rich to get into one of those exclusive hotel lounges. Speaking about the heat, it goes up to 50 bloody degrees now and in 12 years time, who knows how high temperatures will soar in light of global warming? Air-conditioned stadiums? Sure, how many Earth Hours will we need to make up for this? More negatives than positives if you ask me. Sepp Blatter and FIFA are a joke.
Duke Red
post Dec 3 2010, 11:36 AM

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QUOTE(carloz28 @ Dec 3 2010, 11:18 AM)
12 yrs from now it's difficult to predict what will the actual costs is. A return ticket with Qatar Airways now roughly cost RM5K so if you take in current economic considerations in Qatar with inflation rates for the past 2 yrs were whopping 13% and 15%, it will cost you a bomb to watch a game in Doha in 2022.
A decent meal cost like RM30 here but expect that to soar 10 fold in year 2022.


Football is nothing without it's fans. Many noted how empty the stadiums were especially during the group stages of the last tournament in South Africa. Giants like Argentina, Brazil, and Spain don't exactly have the richest fans. I'd hate to imagine how little support African teams will receive. Qatar will no doubt take this opportunity to market itself to the rest of the world so I reckon we can expect to see expensive suits sitting in VIP boxes, in place of screaming fans with painted faces dancing in the stands?

QUOTE(carloz28 @ Dec 3 2010, 11:18 AM)
In summer time (May to Sep) the heat can soar up to 50-60 deg and this could prove to be too hot to handle for fans. Open air stadiums will be a killer i gerenti unless they build all indoor stadiums with massive air conditioning.


Well if they could build an indoor ski slope in Saudi, who knows what more oil money can buy in 12 years? Reckon indoor stadiums with climate control will be out of the question? Teams will flip coins to determine the temperature eh. Can't imagine Scandanavian countries doing very well in that heat. Like I said earlier, it can soar up to 60 degrees now but with the polar ice caps melting at an alarming rate and global warming a serious issue, what will temperatures be like then? I'm guessing we can easily expect an increase of 5 degrees celcius.

QUOTE(carloz28 @ Dec 3 2010, 11:18 AM)
Transportation wise, there's no LRT or subway available at the moment and i expect KARWA to put a plan in place very soon. There's only one road that leads to various satetile cities like Al-Khor and Mesaieed so they will need to have some proper road planning soon.


This is one thing that I believe will be rectified. Infrastructure will be improved to accomodate the population influx. It still doesn't address the cultural issues though. Israel? Women? Booze? I mean come on. Qatar has only just recognised a woman's right to drive ffs.

Duke Red
post Dec 3 2010, 11:47 AM

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QUOTE(volrath @ Dec 3 2010, 11:17 AM)
well, 12 years is a long way to go..

at first i thought S.Africa was a joke too...

they sure can pull it off lah.. decisions like these arent forged, they sure analyzed kao kao already.

i jz like to see new places, getting to know cultures n all throughout WC...am not rich to travel for WC.
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With South Africa, issues were largely related to infrastructure. With funding these problems can be rectified. Building more roads, having more hotels, looking into world class facilities for stadiums, this is all fixable. They erected 5 new stadiums, upgrading 5 existing ones which came up to US $1 billion.

The difference with Qatar if you forget the demographic and climate factors I mentioned is culture. You can't spend money to ensure they have a more liberal view on women by then. You can't spend to ensure they don't descriminate against Jews. Will any amount of money guarantee that booze will be permitted in the streets? Culture and religion in that region has done it's best to withstand the change that time brings. I am not confident that hosting the World Cup will suddenly mean this process will be sped up. The atmosphere at the World Cup contributes a great deal to the whole tournament. What kind of tournament would it be if everyone were wrapped up, not permitted in public viewing places without family, not permitted to hug the opposite sex when celebrating a goal and not allowed to drink when rejoicing?

Duke Red
post Dec 3 2010, 12:11 PM

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QUOTE(carloz28 @ Dec 3 2010, 12:04 PM)
Culture..you are having a laugh.


This denotes that I've just said something absurd. Don't see how as I've just agreed with everything you've said below.

QUOTE(carloz28 @ Dec 3 2010, 12:04 PM)
Do you know a Qatari does not mingle with people apart from their own kind for the fear of "lowering down their social status in the community"?

Do you know a bachelor are prohobited from entering a public shopping mall on Fridays as Fridays are declared FAMILY day?

Not to mention all women have to dress like Togukawa-Edo Shinobi whenever they appear in public places?

FFS, they hired Indians, Bangla and Paks , foreign workers to cheer for own athetles in Asian games!

I respect the religion but these are the barriers that needs to be overcome if they want to start thinking about hosting an international event.
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I've not been there but I did bother to read up a little. This is exactly why I doubt if it will be a 'successful' tournament. Religion and culture aren't things you can just change with money.
Duke Red
post Dec 3 2010, 12:25 PM

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QUOTE(aressandro10 @ Dec 3 2010, 12:04 PM)
despite the obvious difficulties, i am sure the challenge will be less compared to South Africa. We can see a sneak preview in January when Doha hosting the Asia Cup.
Whats good about countries with infrastructure problems is these events will give the resource and political will to solve it.


The Asia Cup will be a yardstick but not an accurate one. It will test the extent to which they've set up their infrastructure but Asian culture is still a little more subdued in comparison with the South Americans or Europeans.

QUOTE(aressandro10 @ Dec 3 2010, 12:04 PM)
1) Traffic problems are expected but not really unsolvable 12 years from now. Greece and Beijing had it much tougher and can be used as a case study
2) Skimpy pretty lasses will be missed. But with different culture, they have a chance to be creative about giving a vibrant colour atmosphere at the world cup. It is definitely not a deal breaker.
3) i am pretty sure Islamic culture issues are the earliest questions asked and tackled by the bidding committee. A jewish team ban would be a no no from the start. i never heard of openly gay world cup players before but i am sure they and and the jewish players can expect a professional hospitality like anyone else. But dont hope for gay entertainment establishment though.
4) i think drinking holes will be much more available during the actual competition compared to now, but then again, why not try to adapt to local method of dealing with the heat. The longest you will do it is only for a month for the rest of your life.
5) During their bidding presentation, they mentioned they will use a zero carbon emission method to cool the stadiums. Solar panels galore.
the best thing about the world cup is the world wide diversity of its participants. So why not extend it to the host and organization as well. Dont expect a typical south american style world cup every time. Open ourselves to different culture as well..
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1) From what I understand, the roads are the primary modes of transportation now. I'm sure they will have better access by building multi-storey highways or by having better transit systems by then. Still, given it's size and the possibility of tens of thousands of fans flying in, it could get pretty congested.
2) Not a deal breaker, just a deterrent. What if laws are broken? What will be the repercussions then? Might have an adverse effect on the host nation.
3) What will the rest of the citizens or Islamic nations think about Qatar putting aside one of the oldest conflicts in history just for this one tournament?
4) Easy for someone who doesn't drink but when you consider that beer and food are very much big components of having a good time, especially over a month, it's hard to just put it aside. Westerners consume alcohol almost on a daily basis.
5) Kudos.

"Open ourselves to different cultures". Fairplay but it's hard when that culture is such a closed one with so many restrictions. Do you openly invite a person into your house and then tell him he can't go to your bedroom, walk around your living room on his own, take off his coat, etc? It's a double edged sword. Even if they do give in, how will other Islamic nations look upon them? How will their own citizens?


Added on December 3, 2010, 12:34 pm
QUOTE(pyroboy1911 @ Dec 3 2010, 12:21 PM)
i think u're confused between Qatar and Saudi Arabia, u dont have to be wrapped up in Qatar, nor are u forbidden to hug in public (PDA is another different issue). Unlike Saudi, non-local women can even wear tight fitting shirts and jeans around, though not encouraged but certainly not punishable. Plus going out with family is not frowned upon as well. Besides, FIFA's policy is to bring football to different cultures around the world, not finding cultures that suit the typical western football.  Drinking is another issue i guess, but like i said, we are bringing football to different parts of the world to different cultures, not changing cultures of different people to suit "stereotypical" english version of football. And i'm pretty sure drinkings will be allowed to some extend, maybe there's a "alcohol" and "non-alcohol" section? And about the Jew thing, that's a political problem. the issue with Israel is the same even if the WC is held in Malaysia. I think many here fear the Arabic culture, but my point is, it's the main purpose of FIFA innit, to expose the world to different cultures and religions. If every venue is required to do what the typical English do for football, might as well hold it in England every single time.


You paint a different picture from carlozz. Well I haven't been there so I'll avoid making assumptions then and stick to what little I know. I agree with the whole exposing football to different cultures bit. The issue however is that it should be reciprocated. I can only be open to someone who is willing to be open to me. Will Qatar be prepared to accept a culture totally different from theirs if only for a month? We are not talking about one nation visiting another here, we are talking about the rest of the world. Drinking isn't just an English culture anymore. It is largely a European one. Hooliganism for example is more prevelant in Italy these days than it is in England. There are many many cultural issues to consider and I'm just wondering if it will be one way or there will be a compromise, and if it's the latter, what other Islamic nations will think of it?



This post has been edited by Duke Red: Dec 3 2010, 12:34 PM
Duke Red
post Dec 3 2010, 02:02 PM

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Another issue to ponder. What do you guys make of the heresay that Qatar bought votes just like they were alleged to have done back when they won the bid to host the 2006 Asian Games? Malaysia was pretty unhappy claiming that it was a ridiculous decision that was influenced by their economic wealth. I mean FIFA was hit with a bribery scandal earlier this year. (http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/worldcup/story/world-cup-bid-day-marred-in-controversy). There is also allegations of vote trading between Spain/Portugal and Qatari representatives as both World Cup hosts were awarded on the same day.

This all isn't conclusive but with FIFA's recent history of selling votes, one cannot completely rule it out.
Duke Red
post Dec 3 2010, 04:22 PM

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QUOTE(Envoy @ Dec 3 2010, 03:49 PM)
it wouldnt be fair if USA got it since they just host WC at 1994
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Well you have to weigh them up against those they were up against. Australia, South Korea, Japan and Qatar were the other contenders. We all know the reservations some, myself included have against Qatar. Korea and Japan were also recent hosts of the World Cup. Would have been a first for Australia. Not being privy to the proposals each country had to offer, I can only comment based on what general information I have. I thought that Australia would have been a good choice. They qualified for this year's tournament and although they don't have a popular league, they have players plying their trade abroad, mainly in England. What else? Nice weather, nice people, nice scenery, nice places of interests. Having hosted the Commonwealth Games before, we know they have infrastructure. Oh yeah, and it's cheaper and geographically better set up.

I don't know about fair. I think consideration should be given to which country has the best potential to pull off the world's biggest tournament?
Duke Red
post Dec 3 2010, 08:51 PM

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QUOTE(jam_lennon @ Dec 3 2010, 04:40 PM)
y Qatar is a joke? they have the monies, they have the budget unlike m'sia
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Might I suggest you read the reasons given earlier by several posters, myself included?

This applies to anyone of the "why a joke, u think FIFA buta pick wan ah?" persuasion. Instead of stating the obvious ie FIFA has picked Qatar for a reason, why not try discounting several of the negative points posted earlier? If you are going to facepalm someone, at least state your reasons why?
Duke Red
post Dec 4 2010, 09:05 AM

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QUOTE(mhyug @ Dec 4 2010, 08:43 AM)
in the countless, senseless 22 pages of reply, by far the best post laugh.gif
How do you figure that? Points I raised were not valid?

Yes most of us will still be watching the World Cup naturally. Most here either can't afford (as in my case) or won't bother to fly all the way there. Several socioeconomic roadblocks were brought up earlier so mind telling me how they were senseless? Perhaps you have an answer? The best replies I've seen suggest that all these problems will rectify themselves in 12 years. Not a well thought out assumption, but a possibility nonetheless. I'm guessing everything we read in the media now is senseless to you as well given how the media is responding in shock? I actually applaud the idea of having solar panels harness the extreme sun there to keep temperatures in stadiums below 27 degrees. If this is however, their main selling point, then there are other countries that can do this without any investment at all. They want to promote themselves as a cultural destination (http://articles.cnn.com/2010-05-14/world/qatar.world.cup.solar.cooling_1_stadiums-solar-power-photovoltaic-panels?_s=PM:WORLD)? All good just so long as they are ready to accept that fact that they will be exposed to a multitude of cultures very different from theirs. I hope that from a religious standpoint, this will be possible.

Well I read what's been written and aside from socioeconomic factors, you have demographic ones, not to mention hints of vote buying, something that happened during the bid for the 2006 Asian Games no? Is it conclusive that they bought votes this time? Of course not but even in common law, there is Precedent. FIFA themselves had been involved in a bribery scandal a mere 6 months earlier.

Will any conversation here change anything? Of course not but the purpose of there being a forum, is for discussion and since the rest of the footballing world is talking about it, I'm guessing it's a pretty hot topic. I'm surprised that so few find this a good discussion topic.


Added on December 4, 2010, 9:12 am
QUOTE(IcyDarling @ Dec 4 2010, 09:01 AM)
so no Israelite football fan ? Only citizen from country that qualify is eligable to watch?
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I know this is something some feel may be rectified. It's probably an issue no one sees fit to address at the moment seeing as Israel have not qualified for the World Cup before. The conflict between them and Muslim nations have gone on for a long time. They aren't even recognised as a country. It remains to be seen if Israel will even take part in the qualification rounds. Just came across this article :-

http://in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-43838520091110

Interesting. Qatar will allow Israel, a nation is does not recognise to take part if they qualify. On one hand, it could be a positive thing. I mean sports has bridged cultural divides before but we're talking about one of the oldest conflicts in the world here. How will the citizens of Qatar take this? How will the rest of the Muslim nations? Will there be safety and security threats for the team?

Alcohol will also be readily available in "fan zones". I'm guessing this means that there will be designated areas within Doha for fans to drink? Good move. I don't think drinking is allowed in stadiums these days, not at the stands anyway.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Dec 4 2010, 09:12 AM
Duke Red
post Dec 5 2010, 02:01 PM

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The heat and humidity will definitely be an issue for players and fans but if you think about it, African and South American players have to play in temperature 10-15 degrees below what they are accustomed to. Same goes for Scandanavian countries when they play is South America or Asia. At one point Rio was the hottest city on earth at 40 degrees celcius. The climate has always been a factor.

Another challenge has popped into mind. Out of Qatar's population, only some 200,000 are Qatari. Most are foreign workers and I'm guessing it's because Qataris are of "high society" and don't perform manual work. With the huge influx of fans, where are all the bus or cab drivers, construction workers, cleaners etc going to come from? More foreign imports? It will be like being in a can of sardines there.
Duke Red
post Dec 6 2010, 12:01 PM

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QUOTE(carloz28 @ Dec 5 2010, 07:15 PM)
The allegations that FIFA committee took bribes from Qatar has started to surface...True or not , we dunno yet but i wouldnt be surprised if it happens..
QUOTE(SGSuser @ Dec 5 2010, 07:16 PM)
well, the spreading football around the world thing by sepp, imho, is just another ploy to cover up the massive corruption inside fifa...england quit fifa b4(long long time ago lah) and that is being brought up again now..not sure if it is a wise suggestion though  hmm.gif
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With FIFA's history of corruption allegations, it really won't be a surprise. I'm personally pro bringing football to new nations but I like looking at an employee's CV, I think you need the proper credentials. Between themselves, Holland and Belgium already have world class facilities and stadiums. Holland have a rich history in the World Cup despite not winning one and have churned out legendary players like Johan Cryuff, Ruud Gullit and Marco Van Basten. Visiting fans will settle in easy as they are a popular tourist destination. The point I'm trying to make isn't that Qatar is a bad choice by itself, it is just a boggling choice given the other candidates.

QUOTE(aressandro10 @ Dec 5 2010, 08:59 PM)
in my opinion, in 12 years time, Qatar will hold as good world cup as it ever been hosted... all this issues brought up by sceptics will turn out as much ado about nothing... South Africa 2010 organization commitee knows all about that from their exerience..

the real issues is the relevance of bidding proses... where the best overall bid doesnt mean anything because someone else need the world cup  more than they do..

i think, for both football developed countries and football developing countries can have an equally realistic chance to hold the world cup, rotation of the world cup must be done according to countries critetia..

1) for football first world countries where the best technical bid will be judged solely on pure merit.

2) for new frontiers counties- candidates must present why they need the world cup more and how much the world cup will accelerate development in that region. In the same time they must prepare a tchnical bid with concrete plans how to overcome their shortcomings...

until the best technical bif by an european country and the best technical bid from the rest of the world is not separated, both will feel sense of injustice by their own reasons...
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With the money they have at their disposal, I've no doubt that there will be world class facilities up by the time 2022 comes around. Money however doesn't address the cultural divide and I'm interested to see what compromise will be struck. Who knows? Maybe fans will stay home, preferring instead to watch it on telly?

I agree that it should be judged on merit which is why I find Russia and more so Qatar to be doubvious choices. Who knows? I may be wrong but we've to wait a decade to see how it pans out. I personally think that countries shouldn't be picked based on purely on their financial clout but also footballing legacy. I understand Africa's selection as teams like Cameroon, Senegal and South Africa are regulars now. Cameroon even beat Argentina and England on their debut. Don't know what Qatar has done in that aspect.
Duke Red
post Dec 7 2010, 09:58 AM

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QUOTE(aressandro10 @ Dec 6 2010, 01:42 PM)
If the bid were judged purely on merit or world cup legacy it will not be fair to all of the other countries also. And the world cup will turn around a small circle of about the same countries. If you are a member of the association, you'd like to think you have a chance to do something like any other members do and not restricted to elite members only.

Aspiration of the region also must be taken highly in the consideration. Middle eastern people has high passion in football as the rest of the world do. So it would mean a great deal to them to host the world cup too. But the problem is, the only countries there who have any sort of world cup legacy are Iran and Saudi Arabia. but for obvious reasons, these countries would never bid to host the world cup. The only chance for the region to have a taste of it is for liberal countries like UAE or Qatar to bid for them.
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I agree with giving new nations a chance. It's just that I think onne should prove they are capable during the bidding process or else it's just words on a screen. Well maybe the questions I posed earlier were answered by the committee. Thus far, nations have proven themselves by having established leagues and doing well in their own continent before bring named hosts, up until now that is.


Added on December 7, 2010, 5:30 pmFormer German midfielder Stefan Effenberg feels the same apparently (http://www.timeslive.co.za/sport/soccer/article802131.ece/Qatars-World-Cup-credentials-savaged).

I cited concerns earlier over how the citizens of Qatar will take to their nations pledge to be more open to diverse cultures during the World Cup. If this article is anything to go by, these concerns have already begun to materialise. One wonders if it will change in 12 years time.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


I brought up the topic of Qatar needing to bring in even more foreign workers to cope and this itself brings a whole other set of problems.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


It was going to surface sooner or later wasn't it? Some feel it's right to bring religion into this now.
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2010/12/06/128677.html

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Dec 7 2010, 05:53 PM
Duke Red
post Dec 9 2010, 11:14 AM

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Written with just a touch of sarcasm.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Duke Red
post Dec 10 2010, 09:52 AM

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QUOTE(pyroboy1911 @ Dec 9 2010, 05:54 PM)
Haha funny article biggrin.gif

BTW, does anyone remember the reaction when South Africa was named WC10 host? i mean, after the voting what is the public reaction like? issues such as poor country, money could be better spend than "build stadium", high crime rates etc, were they mentioned?

I cant recall reading any of those articles back then, heck i dont even remember when are they voted. so need someone to enlighten me tongue.gif Coz wanna compare the reaction then, and the reaction to Qatar now. is it as controversial? and the extend of South Africa's committee to turn those criticism into a succesful WC, and compare it to maybe how Qatar can surprise as well hmm.gif
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Don't recall any major controversies, certainly not on this scale. It terms of money being put to better use, hosting the World Cup does cost a fair bit but you'll also have a never ending stream of sponsors lining up at your door step wanting to be involved in the biggest event on the planet. Bear in mind that as a sponsor, you don't just get exposure during the tournament but also in qualifying games and campaigns leading up to them. FIFA themselves dump in a pretty sizeable amount. I'm not sure what the final figure is but South Africa 2010 was expected to bring in $2.2 billion pounds in revenue. FIFA themselves dumped in excess of $600 million pound in funding. Yes it does take a lot of money to host a tournament of this magnitude but it's like some Chinese wedding dinners, you stand to make it back with some profit. In the case of the World Cup, it's a lot of profit. Don't also forget that industries like tourism will flourish after so there are long term benefits as well. Another big contributing factor was the use of a short term policy by FIFA which states that the World Cup hosts should be rotated amongst football confederations. At the time, 5 African nations put in their bid with South Africa finishing top followed by Morocco.

I don't know how Qatar plans to make a profit given that they've pledged US$ 50 billion to upgrade their infrastructure. It clearly isn't about profit.

The reaction to Qatar 2022 is indeed negative. Do a quick google search and you'll see what I mean. No point on going into details again. Scroll back a couple of pages and you'll see valid points have been raised.

QUOTE(Belphegor @ Dec 10 2010, 01:15 AM)
Qatar purposed to move WC to January. Now there's mix feelings. I would like to see WC host in Asia again but since you already knew your country will be heat up during that particular time, why bother to take part to host WC? Qatar has alot of things to do to make this event a success.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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I'm not sure how possible this is. It's going to be a big ask. It would mean every major league in the world rescheduling. Not only will it affect league games, what about transfer windows? Clubs usually do a great deal of shopping after the World Cup and this will mean transfer windows being extended.
Duke Red
post Dec 12 2010, 03:29 PM

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Well the big leagues play during that time anyway. Also one must consider that training camps and friendly matches will intensify just before the tournament during mid-season which means that bigger sides in particular, will be affected.

Whatever it is, no one expected an F1 night race was possible so let's see what they pull out from under their sleeve.

 

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