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English Clubs Liverpool Football Club - The Kop Talks 2010, Woy out, King back... :)

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Duke Red
post Nov 29 2010, 12:30 PM

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Gutted by the result but I'm proud of the lads and the team. We weren't overrun as I expected us to be and I figure it's because we played higher up the pitch. Lennon was a handful for Konchesky but to be honest, his pace would trouble any defender. It was an exciting match overall and I'm glad we weren't passive at least. Testament to this, Lennon's goal was a result of us pushing forward for the winner. Even when Defoe scored his offside goal, it was the result of a quick counterattack and we didn't have bodies back as we were going forward. Our indecisiveness in front of goal did us in. Both Mereiles and Lucas did better than I thought in the middle of the park. Carra must have been fuming after being forced off only for us to conceed. You know he'd stay on the pitch if it were super humanly possible.

Looks like we won't be going far in the FA Cup again.
Duke Red
post Nov 30 2010, 12:11 PM

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QUOTE(madmoz @ Nov 29 2010, 05:13 PM)
I dislike the 'sign more players' line of thought, but for once I'd like to demand (not that it does much good laugh.gif) that should Woy be kept on as our manager, a giant battering ram kind of striker be bought in January. Torres does not seem to be happy at all being the target man, so perhaps having him play as the 'small guy' in a partnership would be best for all parties. He was in fact the withdrawn striker at Athletico Madrid wasn't he?

The two banks of four that is Woy's favoured tactic does work... Redknapp uses virtually the same system to much success anyways. I do think we have 'sufficient' players to make a workable solution... keep yesterday's central midfield pairing, shunt Gerrard out wide (and hopefully make him stay there). A genuine winger on the other flank would be nice, but Joe Cole if fit and in form will probably pass muster. We have a HUGE amount of squad players capable of filling in there anyways, and i won't mind sacrificing a few babel cough cough for the said striker.

An attacking leftback would be nice too, but should not be a priority methinks as January IS a terrible period to bargain hunt. Is Insua coming back?

Seriously, seeing Crouch win header after header (which is probably due more to Carragher and Skrtel being wimps in the air) and having Defoe, Modric and co latch onto his knockdowns make me go green with envy. Since we're gonna hoof it anyways, let us hoof it in style. Fullbacks for width, Lucas+Meireles to keep things tight in the middle with Cole, Gerrard and Torres feeding on knockdowns from our giant battering ram seems one dimensional but potent enough imho.

Added on November 29, 2010, 5:15 pmAnd oh yeah, a PR manager or a 'shut ye gob' contractual clause added on for RH.
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I agree with everything you've said. We've looked one dimensional for much of the season and we need a big bloke up front if we're going to hoof it.

QUOTE(easypeasy @ Nov 29 2010, 08:31 PM)
A question popped into my head; are we ready for the life after Gerrard?
It's a question I think every Liverpool fan has pondered upon at some point, especially after his "I'm going to Chelsea, no I'm not" routine. I genuinely believe that we are. We've beaten the likes of Chelsea and Man Utd in his absence. When Gerrard is in the team, every player feels compelled or is instructed to pass the ball to him, hence the saying, "Stop Gerrard, and you stop Liverpool". I think his presence limits the talents of those around him. Anyone remember the blinder Igor Biscan played against Bayer Leverkusen in his absence, when our big Croat was thrust into his favoured position in midfield? Poor bloke had to take in tonnes of abuse because Houllier thought he bought a centreback. We look to Gerrard as our matchwinner when the chips are down in it's obvious why. He's single handedly brought us back from the brink of defeat on numerous occasions with his hard running and super strikes. He is however 30 years old now and it doesn't look like he'll fulfill his appetite for success at Anfield. It's time for the rest to step up and I genuinely believe they will.

Duke Red
post Nov 30 2010, 02:36 PM

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QUOTE(sahathai @ Nov 30 2010, 01:06 PM)
the difference between a great player and a regular player is consistency.. maybe not for every game but for most of the time. Regular player can have his brilliant moment at time but failed to maintain the form week in week out.

and with Gerrard, the gap between him and the others is massive.. like a grown up in a schoolboy group. As it has been hard enough to cope with the departure of Alonso, it'll be even harder to loose Gerrard. Can't blame him for outshining the others when they should be the one to step away from his shadow..
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The problem is we've become so reliant upon him. He is essentially Mr. Liverpool and everything at the club revolves around him. Even when he doesn't play well, his mere presence masks it for long periods. In the eyes of many, he can do no wrong. When he plays for England, it's a whole different ball game as he is surrounded by other stars. Is it even a mystery that he cannot reproduce his club form at an international level? He is no longer "the man" and thus sees less of the ball and with players who have their own reputations, around him, he is treated like part of the team and as such, he has to play his part. He isn't the, as Martin Tyler put it, "One Man Task Force", he is at Liverpool.

I disagree that it is a choice for the rest to be outshone by him. I completely agree with everything that Hfi has said in his post. The rest of the team plays really well in his absence. Just look back to the Man Utd and Chelsea games I was referring to. A more recent example will be the game against Spurs which we really should have wrapped up in the first half. Lucas and Mereiles both had really good games as they were given more freedom to impose themselves on the game. Again, I feel that both are restrained to certain roles to accomodate Gerrard. In two games this season, Mereiles had to play right winger but this was however also because Kuyt was out injured.

Like it or not, we will have to start getting used to life after Gerrard and I honestly don't think it's such a bad thing. I would rather the team plays well instead of just one player.
Duke Red
post Nov 30 2010, 03:02 PM

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QUOTE(rushmode @ Nov 30 2010, 02:39 PM)
yeah, gerrard is not getting younger and his prime has passed him. however he is still needed in an open game where his bursts running and quick thinking is useful for attacking. in a game where the opponent choose to sit deep and get a draw is not very suitable now since they always have this mentality of 'stop gerrard and torres at any cost' so the usual tactics of pass gerrard/torres the ball failed miserably almost all the time.

even though its ugly and i hate it, i agree we need to find a good target man to accompany torres upront if we choose to hoof the ball. hey, as long as it works... wink.gif
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Keeping Gerrard is a big plus of course but as vreis has suggested, his role has to be limited so the rest have the opportunity to shine. Not everything should go through Gerrard anymore because the rest have shown that they can be counted upon. Mereiles is showing the form that has made him a regular in his national side and Lucas is fast becoming the player he was at Gremio.

On the signings of both Poulsen and Konchesky, I think many fans were doubtful even before they played their first game. Both have had distinctively average careers and we can see why. They didn't improve the squad if you ask me. If we had kept Insua, we could have bought Van Der Vaart for what we paid for both of them. I think Jay Spearing could displace Poulsen.
Duke Red
post Nov 30 2010, 03:53 PM

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QUOTE(hfi @ Nov 30 2010, 03:21 PM)
Im probably clutching straws here but it must be comforting for someone like Lucas to have mid pairing who can speak his native language. Midfield pairing is perhaps one of the hardest pairing to develop in football because you are covering a lot of space and their ability to work in unison is key to how a team will function on the pitch. The way both Lucas and Mereiles move in sync with one another and the trust and respect shown between themselves i feel is fundamental to a good CM pairing. I really hope the pairing of Lucas and Mereiles is given a good run of playing time to develop before Roy decides his favourite pairing.
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Explains why our defending has been shambolic at times this season. No one understands Carra.
Duke Red
post Nov 30 2010, 04:43 PM

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One thing that makes me proud to be a Liverpool supporter is that the passion is sometimes transposed into action. Came across this bunch of fans who have formed their own club. Unlike MyRAWK however, they watch their games at mamaks but I've been told that their primary gathering point is at Spoons in Kota Damansara. Like MyRAWK, they also organised football and futsal matches for those who are interested. For more info you can check out their facebook site. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33733580324. Fills me with immense pride when I come across folks like these who show so much support.
Duke Red
post Dec 2 2010, 02:53 PM

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QUOTE(xMika @ Dec 1 2010, 05:19 PM)
Uhhh ~ Buy a new centre back ? How bout Agger and Krygiakos ? Cant they replace Jamie ? Rotate the 3 of them as our centre back ..
Kyrgiakos is hardly one for the future being only a couple of years younger than Carra. I've no idea why Hodgson doesn't fancy Agger. It's probably because he isn't your typical old fashion centreback who is built like a tank and turns like one as well. They are kind of redundant these days with there being less typical English centreforwards. Of the centrebacks I've seen play to date, I don't think any are good enough at this stage of their careers to play week in, and out against Europe's best bar Daniel Agger. Skrtel is erratic and his lack of pace results in too many silly fouls in dangerous areas. Carra peaked for about 3 seasons and approaching his mid 30's, his form will gradually go downhill. Ayala didn't impress me in the game's that he's played in. Haven't seen Kelly play at centreback so I can't comment. Haven't seen Wilson either but he's one for the future and may or may not develop into a first team player. We can't sit on our laurels and wait before looking for a replacement. Our defending has been shambolic this season and although some of this can be attributed to Mascherano leaving, I think it has also to do with the lack of quality we have in this department. I must conceed however that there are other areas that need strengthening more urgently like leftback.

QUOTE(madmoz @ Dec 1 2010, 09:45 PM)
Also, I have a certain line of thought/theory on youngsters. Notice how most get a chance in the 1st team, have a great debut but after a run of good games fade away? I don't think it is merely down to being tired, but more to being 'found out'. With tv coverage etc, every single move you make and your preferences will be analysed by everyone. And they learn to deal with you eventually. It is how you adapt to this that really defines how good a player you will become.

For example, Insua. Great debut and a couple of good months. Then everyone realised that he was slow to turn, and has the acceleration of a Myvi. He's now being loaned out, and as far as i know he's not doing too well either.

Same goes for players like Aaron Lennon and Wright Phillips (although this fella sure isn't young anymore!). Good breakthru season, then found out to be one footed and as such turned into lemons overnight.

Bale is one footed too iinm, and just mark my words... his star will fade soon enough, unless of course he learns to cope.
I completely agree. It's fine if you are just that good and no one can stop you even if you are a one-trick-pony but most aren't. I'd liken Bale to Riise who was extremely right-footed as well. Scored some good goals like that belter against Man Utd and the good finish against Everton, but struggled after as opponents started to push him onto his weaker foot.
Duke Red
post Dec 3 2010, 11:18 AM

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QUOTE(madmoz @ Dec 3 2010, 10:19 AM)
Well, last night did show that despite having the talent, some of our younger players aren't quite ready.

Some of them would have been murdered in the EPL based on what we saw last night, so will the clamor for "Out with the old, youths in now!" from us fans please stop.
Oath. I've been saying since last season that even Ayala who was touted to be the most promising of our youngsters doesn't look ready for first team action. Of the other youngsters I've seen, Kelly looks the most promising. I doubt Jay Spearing will improve much as he's already 22 which is about the time you should be breaking into the first team. Well unless you're Stephen Warnock who only graduated at 24.
Duke Red
post Dec 7 2010, 10:16 AM

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QUOTE(leftist @ Dec 7 2010, 07:09 AM)

Added on December 7, 2010, 7:30 amuser posted image

they dont say best fan in the world for nothing! rclxms.gif  notworthy.gif
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Nice touch that. I still vividly remember the warm welcome fans gave Houllier after he came back from heart surgery. Good that some have not forgotten he once won us 5 cups in 1 season. The infamous "Mickey Mouse treble", so says them mancs. Was a pulsating UEFA Cup final as well. If you didn't watch the game and only read the papers you'd have thought it went to penalties. 5-4 after extra time. In the last decade we've been part of the greatest European finals. Who let the reds out? Hou... Hou... Houllier. Sadly his one dimensional football made us predictable and easy to defend against. Was time to part ways.

One man team? I never agreed with that and once again the team has shown that we are ready for life after Gerrard. We were unfortunate not to have got a point at least from White Heart l
Lane but were rewarded for our endeavor and positive approach this time round.
Duke Red
post Dec 7 2010, 02:49 PM

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QUOTE(sahathai @ Dec 7 2010, 01:52 PM)
LOL.. here it come again 'we played better without Gerrard and Torres' statement? despite the scoreline, I must say it was a very low standard of football, both team gave away the possession way too cheaply, meanwhile, the away team are forced to start with at least three of their youth players. the winner is just the one that made less mistake. SO if that was our 'better' performance then maybe I need to start lowering my expectation... I still can't understand this 'one man team' philosophy.. just because we have one player who constantly plays better than others, does it mean that we need to get rid of him so that everyone will look equally matched? no one should be better than everyone? if yes than maybe we should start offloading our best players this January and get more of Lucas, Kuyt and co. and perhaps we can then challenge for the tittle..
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I take it you disagree that with Gerrard in the side, players feel compelled to give him the ball as much as possible, hence the saying, "stop Gerrard, you stop Liverpool"?

You miss the point when you suggest selling our stars. Every team has at least one standout performer. It is important however that the said performer remains part of the team and not be the team. It is but mere coincidence that the likes of Lucas and Mereiles have stepped up in his absence? No sane person would suggest willingly selling Gerrard but it's good to know we are capable of good football without him. Gerrard has bailed us out almost single handedly on numerous occassions but if it's mutually exclusive, I'd much rather the whole team do well than Gerrard alone.

There is no smoke without fire and I can see why people claim that we are a one man team. The way the press builds up Gerrard's importance leads readers to believe he alone determines our results on the pitch. Is it natural to let your most talented player see much of the ball? Of course but not to the extent we become predictable. Teams have tried crowding Gerrard out by putting to defenders on him and too often it looked like we had no plan B. Do Chelsea play through Lampard as much? Does Arsenal rely on Fabregas as much? Do the mancs rely on any one player? Fact of the matter is that Gerrard isnt exactly surrounded by mediocre teammates. I think that Mereiles and Lucas (ver. 2010) can match up to any other midfield pairing in the Premiership. I for one enjoy seeing the whole team sharing the ball more.
Duke Red
post Dec 9 2010, 10:52 AM

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Written with just a touch of sarcasm.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
Duke Red
post Dec 9 2010, 11:14 AM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Dec 9 2010, 10:52 AM)
Written with just a touch of sarcasm.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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Darn, wrong thread.
Duke Red
post Dec 9 2010, 03:37 PM

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Suarez eh? I have the same feeling I had when Houllier first announced his intention to sign Diouf. Good, honest player he doesn't seem to be. I don't like.
Duke Red
post Dec 9 2010, 03:49 PM

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QUOTE(aressandro10 @ Dec 9 2010, 03:43 PM)
He would score a lot more than Diouf for sure....
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That's true. Makes me wonder how Diouf got his "serial killer" monicker.
Duke Red
post Dec 10 2010, 10:02 AM

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QUOTE(madmoz @ Dec 10 2010, 01:54 AM)
We must make it clear to everyone that hooliganism had nothing to do with the Hillsborough disaster. Many, and I really mean many have made the mistake of associating the two - including a British minister and have had to apologise.

Part of the problem stems from the fact that measures were indeed taken to combat hooliganism more effectively (as opposed to fencing people in pens) after the events of Hillsborough. Also, people tend to lump Heysel and Hillsborough together as Liverpool supporters were involved (but in very different ways). Both disasters could and would have probably been averted had the measures taken post Hillsborough were in place.

Hooliganism still exists, sadly. But the ways to combat it have also evolved.

Most of the larger English stadiums (as far as I know anyways) are all seaters nowadays. Capacity is much smaller than in the days prior to Hillsborough. Stewards keep a watchful eye on everyone (poor buggers have to turn their backs at the game and watch the crowd!). In many stadiums, you are told to "Sit down!" if you stand up too long. Refuse and they'll escort you out. From the stadium control booth, big brother can actually zoom into any seat and read out the seat number!!!

Many of the larger stadiums have rail direct access and is surrounded by pubs etc. The moment you step off the train, they are camera's everywhere!!! Even in the pubs. All of this is linked to the stadium control center. Try anything funny and big brother alerts the police.

IMHO, despite hooliganism being perceived as a British problem (probably no thanks to EUFA ban post Heysel), actual hooliganism is much more prevalent in mainland Europe nowadays. The Brits, imho have faced up to the problem and taken measures to address it, whereas some of their European counterparts refuse to even acknowledge the problem.

JFT 96.
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I agree. Hillsborough had absolutely NOTHING to do with hooliganism. It was bad, bad planning as fans were crammed into the Leppings End of the stadium despite having a larger fan base, resulting in there being a huge crush. Common sense right? Well not to one Chief Superintendant Duckenfield.

Aside from the measures you've mentioned, they also don't serve alcohol in the stands anymore much to my dismay when I was there. It's for the greater good though.
Duke Red
post Dec 10 2010, 10:19 AM

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Yesterday began as any work day did. I strolled into the office looking forward to today which by the way, is a day off for me smile.gif Colleague walks over and goes, "oi, want to go attend a coaching clinic or not? Steve McMahon and Phil Brown are conducting it". "Let's go" was my immediate response. Off I went to Gardens International School. Found myself waiting under the slight drizzle rehearsing conversational topics. When the pair of them eventually arrived some 20 minutes later, they were immediately mobbed by kids of mixed heritages. International school mah. The football pitch was pristine and they had 3 other smaller pitches in support. "Phaw", when I was in school we only had 1 pitch and we used what i was told was cow grass. Anyway, I sat patiently watching them put the young uns through their paces. One of the routines was a 5 (or was it 6?) aside with Brown and McMahon each captaining a side. I must say that the quality of football impressed my colleague and I. Took some vids but found my own commentary too amateurish and annoying.Thought I'd spare your ears. These kids were good! Anyway, full time came along and that's when my colleague and I took these photos smile.gif

On the issue of youth players, I spoke with the organiser (can't remember the name of the company) and he told me that along with Steve McMahon and Phil Brown, his other ambassadors were Jason McAteer, Paul Parker and one other former player I can't remember. He's also in talks with Thomas Vermaelen. They go around Singapore and Malaysia looking for young prodigees via training clinics like the one I attended. They have direct links to clubs like Hull (explains why Brown is an ambassador), Portsmouth, and a number of other English clubs. They spot these kids, send videos over and if a club sees potential, they contact the said kid's parents and ask them to monitor their progress over a stipulated time. Consistent video footage is a must so the club can see if the kid is developing not just in his ability but also physically as well. The sad thing it, Robb (the organiser) had told me that Malaysians in particular (bear in mind I was in an International school at the time) had a tendancy to FFK especially if it rained. Come one man! I lived to play in the rain the last time. Which kid doesn't like rolling around in the mud?!?!? Anyway, it isn't a surprise therefore that we don't have notable talent coming through if this is any gauge of disciplinary and commitment levels.


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Duke Red
post Dec 10 2010, 11:38 AM

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QUOTE(rushmode @ Dec 10 2010, 11:26 AM)
btw duke, you could have bring another kit for macca to sign.. the yellow is is... tongue.gif
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Yeah I know but I had Phil Neal's signature on it. My aim is to fill it up with a couple of signatures and them have it framed.
Duke Red
post Dec 10 2010, 02:31 PM

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Unfortunately I can't upload vids. Have to upload them elsewhere and I'm not sure how to ler
Duke Red
post Dec 12 2010, 03:25 PM

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Kudos to Newcastle. Just the kind of start Pardew needed. Certainly no sour grapes from me, bar the fact that we were undone by two of our Scouse brethren.
Duke Red
post Dec 16 2010, 10:40 AM

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QUOTE(carloz28 @ Dec 16 2010, 10:29 AM)
The point I'm alluding to is, if Liverpool wants to be feared in Europe and achieve greater heights, we need to squash teams like FC Utrehct and Steaua Bucharest. (No disrespect to the opposition)

Eventhough we play second stringers, that doesnt mean Woy can afford a draw (at home???), i mean we should always aim to get 3 points at every game and not contented with a draw.  And if im honest, i hate to think that "oh a draw is a good result, because we don't have Torres Reina or Gerrard in the game, it's a damn good result!"

If Liverpool wanna become champions, they need to start thinking like a winner. This is winner's mentality, always seek to kill the opponents and improve on the next game even after thrashing the opponent 4-0 and 5-0!

Not Woy! "Oh an away draw is a fair result, i'm proud of the lads, i can go home now and guzzle a few pints to celebrate that golden point!"
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I agree with you. We should not be content with home draws against Europe's next tier. I agree at the same time that expectations should be managed but Hodgson's managerial capabilities are severely limited and the team should be playing better than they are. His forte seems at this point, to be providing comic relief. Here's another boo boo.

QUOTE
Hodgson’s defence just doesn’t add up

In light of the criticism that was inevitably levelled at beleaguered Liverpool manager Roy Hodgson during the live interactive show on LFCtv the previous evening, Mr Hodgson was yesterday asked about the guarded defence of his credentials offered up by John W Henry and Tom Werner. His response included the following observation:

“The only team with better results than us over the past five or six games is Arsenal or Manchester United. If you take the last five or six games we are right up there in terms of results. They (the owners) used the same terms as I would. If you ask me whether results this season over the 17 games we have played are acceptable and is that what you expected when you came to Liverpool Football Club, then I’d say ‘no it’s unacceptable and I expected much better.”

Obviously these statistics must be held to scrutiny as Roy is using them to justify his position and (supposed) progression in recent weeks. Looking at the records of each Premier League club over their last six matches throws up the following points accumulations:

1. Manchester United 14pts
2. Arsenal 12pts
3. Manchester City 12pts
4. Tottenham Hotspur 12pts
5. Bolton Wanderers 11pts
6. Stoke City 11pts
7. Sunderland 9pts
8. Blackpool 9pts
9. Blackburn Rovers 9pts
10. Aston Villa / Liverpool 7pts

So over the previous six games far from only Man United and Arsenal having a superior record to Liverpool Football Club, almost half the clubs in the Premier League exceeded their points total. In the interests of fairness it must be pointed out that Hodgson stated “last five or six games” so the same exercise should be undertaken over a five game period. During this period the list looks scarcely better for Roy:

1. Manchester United 11pts
2. Manchester City 11pts
3. Tottenham Hotspur 11pts
4. Bolton Wanderers 10pts
5. Arsenal 9pts
6. Sunderland 8pts
7. Blackpool 8pts
8. Stoke City 8pts
9. Liverpool / WBA / Blackburn / Birmingham / Wolves 7pts

So over their previous five matches eight sides have amassed a greater points total than the men from Anfield, whereas only seven sides have fared worse. I do not intend to append any conclusions or agenda to this piece, merely to point out the anomalies in Roy Hodgson’s statement. A statement which was included on the official Liverpool Football Club website, without any corrections. The comments were also part of the pre-match press conference for the Utrecht match tomorrow evening and as such were picked upon by millions, including no doubt the men who hold the key to Mr Hodgson’s future, Messrs Henry and Werner.
Incidentally, where has Mr. Positivity gone? As I've said repeatedly along with some other posters, there is being positive and there's being deluded.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Dec 16 2010, 10:41 AM
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