Dear all,

I have been reading this section for quite a while and I believe there's a few experienced people in the investment banking scene.

I have just graduated and is searching for a career. My dream is to join a bulge bracket (BB) investment bank (IB) in the future, perhaps either in Singapore or Hong Kong. (preferably Corporate Finance (CF) or Investment Banking division)

Thus, I am asking a few questions in relation to which career path to take right now.

1. There are a few feasible opportunities:
A) Local IB
B) Local Big 4 CF advisory
C) SG Big 4 Auditing

2. What is the difference between IB and big 4 CF?

3. Which are the Tier 1 IBs in Malaysia?

p.s. I do not wish to go through rotations as I'm quite certain that I'm interested in CF.

Thanks in advance and I really appreciate any positive input.

-deleted-

This post has been edited by bucharestophere: Jan 6 2011, 12:10 PM

I graduated from an Australian University (Bachelors).

I also did an internship at a Msian IB.

This post has been edited by confused*88*: Dec 22 2010, 05:15 PM

@confused88
i think its best you state out your major? you could be majoring in IT, which has little relevance to finance / accounting

I graduated with a Accounting/Banking & Finance double major.

I have almost the same aim as you.
Will be hoping you could get useful advise as I will be tapping them too.
Good luck to both of us.

2. An investment bank can include raising capital in their deals as they have a license to do so. Big 4 doesn't have that; usually taking on smaller clients which the banks do not want and only provide advisory services.

3. The major local anchor banks investment banking arm include CIMB, Maybank, RHB and AmBank. CIMB tops the list in the league tables. Foreign banks do not have much of an investment banking presence here, mostly limited to research or stockbroking.

U had an internship, and yet u don't know what is going on? Doubt u'll get far. I'm in it, but wouldn't offer any advise. Having an internship without knowing what's the next plan already revealed what a failure u r

Do you consider CFA ?

I doubt that you're certain about ur interest in CF.
If ur so certain u won't even ask those question above.
U've an intern and ur so determined, yet u dun know who's the Tier1 players? No.1 attitude requirement for CF is being resourceful and dun ask stupid question until u've research all avenues. I wouldn't be so harsh, if u didn't boast about ur determination in CF.

2. All of the 3 options u've stated will only give u 5% chance of getting into BB IB in SG or HK (note: i din't say 0%). The higher chance way is to get Masters from world top 5 university, such as Harvard, University of Chicago, etc etc (do ur research, i dun hav the time).

For ur Q2, do ur own research. Google it and search thru 10 pages at least.

Lastly, by CF itself is very vauge, as CF work in local IB, foriegn IB and Big4is very diff. Go figure. Hence, again, i doubt ur determination.

and also, for huge MNC, they have their own CFs. U wan to get in? Yea, maybe those small time ones, where the deals don't get into their hand. And that time, TS's dream of getting huge bonuses will be tarnished.

@gloomberg
arent you new towards the working force itself? From other threads I think you jsut started working right? (well at least in IB).

No doubt TS didnt do much research etc on the field he/she is trying to enter but, well, no reason to act arrogantly / cocky right? I believe this is a thread seeking advice / guidance, not a bashing one.

Most ppl in IB seem to act that way but not sure why.

Chartered Financial Analyst?

Yes, I think Topace111 was asking confused*88* to consider getting the CFA designation.

confused*88*, if you graduated from a big brand university in Australia, then try applying to the IBs in Singapore first. If you can't, then try CIMB or Maybank Investment Bank.

Hi confused*88*,

Refer to your statement "...did an internship at the IB deparment of a big local IB". So the "local" should means in Australia as I assume. So I'm just wondering why don't the "local" IB comfirm you as a permenant staff once you completed your internship if you are performing well? Even so, you still can look for other IB in Australia instead of coming back to Malaysia to look for CF job?

Nowadays even the experienced one not easy to look for CF jobs in Singapore before the election (Singapore). Of course if TS did a lot of corporate exercises during his internship in the "big local IB" of which could brush up his CV a little bit nicer, who knows he got a chance to get an interview from SG's IBs? Anyway, i think TS should apply CF job from IBs in KL to gain more experience and exposure first.

BTW, getting CFA is not a pre-requisite to work in CF though it would be an advantage. Instead passing SC licensing exam is a must for those who plan to work in CF from IBs as a long term career.

Yeah I've signed up for the June 2011 examinations already.

Thanks for the advice.

From my experience, I'd say I'm quite certain about that but I'm sure there's more for me to find out in the field. So I didn't say I'm 100% sure.

I'm not planning to do a Masters right now, but that is a viable plan in the future.

I will find out more about the things that u've noted. Thanks.



Thanks for the reply.

FYI, I graduated from Monash. I'd say its not too reputable but its OK.

I have already applied for the graduate positions but I'm not expecting much from it. Hence, I'm seeking advice as to which career is a better step stone to a BB IB.

I dont want to be rotated but if thats the best step stone I might consider that path. Any advice on that?


I did intern at a MY IB. I'm already back in MY but I didn't want to go through rotations so I'm still considering other options.


Of the three that I've listed, which experience is more creditable if I were to apply for BB IB in the future?

Thanks a lot for your reply.

Don’t be misguided by the forum for real. Ignore posts from the interval of 7am to 2am (+1) - Generally. Opportunity cost for IB-ers to post at this forum is just too high - Generally.
For BB/Tier-1 Corporate Finance, forget about the qualifications needed besides your Degree. Leverage on the internship. Your best cut to being an Analyst in CF is probably from internship/job placement in the campus, unless you’re some private banker’s client’s - children. If you fail this stage, go to Plan B or Plan C, or Plan D.
Plan B entails a reputable B-school. As you are aware of, you probably will be in your late 20s to early 30s. Getting an MBA will open doors to interviews at campus.
Plan C covers Big 4 CF. Generally the experience is quite similar except for capital market experiences and size of the deals in the pipeline.
Plan D involves being a specialist in your industry. This master of trade is demanded by the IBs.
Either Plan A,B, C, D, or E….CF requires you to be ‘smoky’. In the sense, never answer “I Don’t Know” and smoke all the way, of course with substance.

Wats sc licensing may I ask?

First of all, what is ur motivation behind getting into an IB? Money? Glory? Just make sure u have what it takes, i.e. relentless stamina, working late till 4-5am(when there's project, and this is frequent for big IB), adept to analyzing business, living in solitude, tough mentally and physically, great communication and client servicing skills, pro in excel, and one thing u realize when u're in it, unrealistic business valuation (cuz it all depends on ur client's satisfaction to get the deal done).

@kelvin_tan, lol, im new, but i ask around. and look around. there maybe claim that they are an IBer albeit they're not, but it's really up to u guys to judge what is plausible or not.

I've met many freshies, but a lot of them are super stuck up although they knew nothing. literally nothing. nil. well, if this is the attitude when they meet their clients, keep it up. Yea, glorified job, but there's a price to pay for it. In the end of the day, what matters most is not just your technical skills, but also your ability to maintain good relationship with clients (so that they continue doing business with u?), although many people didn't know that their clients can be next to them when they least expect it.

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Added on November 24, 2010, 9:56 pmModule 12 & 19, go check the website la...

This post has been edited by gloomberg: Nov 24 2010, 09:56 PM

Monash is a good enough university. No harm trying to apply though. From time to time, try to furnish your resume/CV to make it more attractive to HRs.

As long as you get a chance to work in an IB, it's okay if you get rotated between departments. The most important thing is being able to show to your future bosses your interest and capability in CF. Networking is very important in this case.

Good luck.

Read from your reply and know you did intern at MY, but you said you don't know which IBs are the top tier in MY? Not going to mention which are the top tier IBs in MY since someone could have mentioned in the previous thread, so you have to stop whinning and go verify those information or google search.

Btw, IMHO it would be recommended to go for CF division of IBs, of course it would be best if you can join the best local IB.

I got another question is that since you have gone through your internship in a local IB, you should have come to know someone from another IB or work in the same industry? It could be indeed easier for you to get a CF job via connection and reference.

Share you my experience that I did an internship in a local IB before. I was attached to the CF division. I was confirmed by the bank once the internship completed, though I left the bank and join an application engineer firm later. Four years later I bored with the engineer job and finished the CFA study, I back to work in CF via through peer reference. As I still keep in touch with my ex-CF colleagues, and a lot of them are promoted to be AM, AVP or even VP and they are spread all over different IBs or commercial sector (CF is a "small" world), and with their reference I only went through for 1st interview to show face and get the job offers.

This post has been edited by kinwing: Nov 25 2010, 12:01 AM

Some good advice there. Thanks.

Anyway I'm fresh from uni, so I'm still in my early 20s. =)

I guess I'll try plan B in the future after getting a few years experience.

Mind explaining more about plan A? I've applied for BB but I'm not putting much hope on it.

Is MY Tier 1 IB experience better than Big 4 CF or the other way round? Which is more credible for BB IB?

I'm really interested in the area and I enjoyed my internship very much. I like the challenges put upon me and I find value in that. Well, the money really is a plus for more motivation in this case, I wouldn't deny that.

I'm sure I'm capable of performing at this area and I also realise that I have to polish my communication skills but that can be trained as I get more experience.


Yeah I've applied for graduate positions but the competition is really intense. It's good if I'm able to land it but I wouldn't be sad if I couldn't.

I'm afraid to be rotated into the commercial banking side of the business. LOL. I have a basic understanding of their hiring practice so I think I'll go for the alternative route. That's if I decided to join them down the road.

Anyway, from ur advice, u reckon local IB is better than Big 4 CF experience? Thanks.

U reckon local IB is better than Big 4 CF experience?

Maybe we're talking about different company here or maybe they have changed their system. Before this I heard it's possible for a fresh graduate to join as an executive but I think they've changed their policies. Fresh graduates must now go through the MT program and be rotated. That's from what I understood. Correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.

Harsh?
Wait till they really do CF, and they'll know wat is harsh

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Added on November 25, 2010, 6:57 amMy fren is complaining his juniors always complain of always given menial task, but wen given more important tasks, they dun do it properly and won't put in the hours. resulting in the seniors put in even mre hours than he have to initially.
juniors, especially those very determined ones, are very big headed, They are so determined about the word CF, but yet doesnt know the real day to day work. and when they dun seem to do what they are expecting(or imagining), they lose interest.


This post has been edited by Aloong: Nov 25 2010, 06:57 AM

Bro, where do you sign up for this program ?

Google.

This post has been edited by VR9099: Apr 30 2011, 12:49 AM

the sarcasm is strong in this thread, in general!

There is google search instead of whining around to wait others to spoon feed. Even normal jobs, not to mention the work in the CF field, require staffs to take the initiative to take the effort to learn. While people are working, it is not always qualification, but attitude in work to gain the relevant experience is more important.

Thank you.
I asked because I do not want to get it wrong.
I checked in www.cfainstitute.org but it seems like its not for local.
And I can't find a malaysian 1 except for the www.cfamalaysia.org which will also redirect me to the 1st website.

Anyway, if u don't want or can't answer me, or if it's too hard for you to help, then don't say anything.
Why bother to answer so sarcasticly?
You gain or lost anything if I'm spoonfed?

I got an interview for corporate finance with a local IB, I heard that there will be an essay and a something like financial statement analysis test, anyone here has this experience before? Normally what sort of essay questions they will ask, and the financial statement analysis is like?? any example as I couldn't find from internet.

OT:
Which IB specifically?

I registered at www.cfainstitute.org. I'm not 100% certain but I don't think you can register through any other way. You can register for the exam and choose the venue that you prefer, they have exams all over the world.

For Level 1, there's June and December exams. Registration and exam fee is around US$1000 and it gets more expensive closer to exam dates.

Cheers.

Alliance Invest

The good thing about Plan B is it allows you to self-assess your ability before splurging considerable amount of money for B-School enrollment. This is via GMAT program. FYI, avg GMAT score for Harvard (Top-B School) is 730 in 2009. Tier 1 IB mostly recruits from Top B-school, hence if you cant get an enrollment, drop the dream. Passion sometimes need to be assessed with ability before the reality struck hard.

The problem with Plan A is competition. This is the stage where IBs recruit interns/analyst. This is simply through their graduate's program advertised globally or campus recruitment (for top tiers Degree). Again, if you are the typical Joes on the street, this is the most possible option with a degree.

My take is any Tier 1 IB guys can do Big 4 CF job but not vice versa. The exposure and responsibilities are very different. If you have a choice, it would be a clear cut in my opinion. Unfortunately, I dont think Tier 1 IB will hire someone in the early 20s especially in the front office. If I were a client, I wont be convinced looking at a young chap pitching or doing investment valuation at my mega project. Big 4 may be a better bet, and I believe they hire young blood.

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Added on November 25, 2010, 9:32 pmCorporate Finance entails lots of legal document reading, pitching and writing vignettes. Therefore, what's the best way to assess than to ask the interviewees to write an essay, which I opined to be a case study essay.

Know your financial statements. Double accounting treatment and ratios. Google up the most common ratios and why they are used. For eg. EV/EBITDA. Why EV and why EBITDA? If you are interviewing for a specialist sector, know the sector hard. Airlines will be looking at RPK, RASK, CASK. Power generation looking at EV/KWh and etc. Remember CF guys are Jack of all trades, master of none! Back-of-the-envolope DCF, comparable multiples, transaction multiples for the start. Good Luck!

This post has been edited by keelim: Nov 25 2010, 09:42 PM

legal stuff... tons of them @,@... which is why corporate lawyer like andre & kadir or wong & partners (under baker and mckenzie) are earning tons of money (but of course they work their a$$ off too). Technical skills can be trained, cuz there's a limit to what a person can do, unless u get into a very quant finance field, i.e. derivatives, fixed income analysis (and it's not just maths and statistical modelling, it's way beyond that).

But what i think is that if we get into a CF of a small IB, we wouldn't necessarily learn a lot, especially if ur leader is a lousy one, and continuously failing to secure any deals. In the banking industry however, take heed that CF people are often labelled as a very serious bunch of people. Sleep late, wake up early. But bonus is beyond ur wildest imagination, but well, u're gonna risk threatening ur life being there, especially at CIMB. And actually, the life of being an equity analyst is quite similar, u reach office at 7am, go back 12am, lots of coffee, ur colleagues are ur family, etc. depends what u seek for in life.

Who does no one consider debt capital market? It's an equally challenging field, maybe not as CF, but the exposure is quite huge, and gonna expand even more with islamic finance. Getting straight into CF would bring u no benefit, cuz it's better if u have experience in certain areas of expertise, for say property&construction, power generation, agriculture, etc etc. then u have sth to bring to the table if u have a great business sense in valuation of a certain project. Best of all, if u have overseas projects, and if u have a blackberry that connects to ur office email, i wish u good luck.

CF?
didnt expect they're hiring. i tot they went into hibernation

Vengeance_Mad,

I quite like the quote from dreamer101:"If you cannot stand the heat, please stay away from the kitchen". So we are here trying to wake you up by giving you some hints how would the real IB world be but you take it too personally to think we are bashing you.

If your have never come through some harsh critics from bosses like "Why you are here? You should go home and sleep and give me your salary since your work is suck like a primary student's work, as I'm checking your work till like I'm doing your job!?". Or have you ever been thrown to the face with your draft and being screamed at "I don't want to see this rubbish, get out from my sight!" and have no idea of this kind of hardship, then be happy, as we sarcastism is a small fried.

BTW, you are on the way of getting the CFA registration by bumbing into the www.cfainstitute.org webpage, do read more thoroughly you would then find the account registration session for the CFA registration. Whereby the www.cfamalaysia.org is only for those who are or want to be CFA members and this webpage is not CFA candidates.

You might be requested an essay like "What would be the Malaysian's economy is the next decade, what would be the problem the economy is going to encounter and what is the solution?" or "To discuss the most recent corporate governance issue".

Or you would be provided a company's financial statement, and this company could be in making gains or losses for years. So base on the statement, you would suggest which following corporate exercises:-
1) Bonus Issue
2) Right Issue
3) Capital Reduction
3) Share Split
4) Share Consolidation
5) Acquisition
and etc.
And you are required to justify the selection the corporate exercise and show the proforma statement for taking the exercise.

I think its great to see your determination to go straight into CF. But you shouldn't get too fix minded and close other opportunies when you're unable to get into CF.

A career from commercial/corporate banking not a bad place to start if you want to go into CF. As these days you see banks offering a wide of services. I met a corporate relationship manager was working very closely with his treasury and DCM team.

Anyway just my 2 cent

u just need to know the right people to get u in... unless u're real lucky, like one of my pretty super lenglui friend who managed to get in, but left after barely a month there lol.

Hi gloomberg

May I know why your lenglui friend left ah ?

The sane mind of a pretty lady should be marrying a banker not becoming a banker.

Got it.
I understand.
I just don't like to be judged so vaguely.

OT: May I know ur super lenglui friend ?

This post has been edited by Vengeance_Mad: Nov 26 2010, 10:15 AM

Hi all Experts

may i know how much salary should be expected by those fresh graduate with Bachelor Degree qualification who wish to venture into CF world?

is that working in CF world most of the time should work over midnight 12am or where 12am sharp can go back home is considered early already?

i heard from one shareholder of PLC during AGM time, he shocked me that a person who holds CFA charter work in investment banking line can earn such high amount up to RM30k monthly. He is the one who earns such huge amount and able to get early retirement (coz he is now only age middle 40s and keep roaming around to attend AGM of PLC..to eat free buffet lunch and get door gift as well..haha)

so dear all experts...is that my above statement true..???

This post has been edited by Zennix: Nov 26 2010, 01:45 PM

I'm no expert.

Generalizing never yields an accurate hypothesis.
My bet is that apart from being a CFA charterholder, that fortunate block would tell you many more factors that contributed towards his early retirement if you ever get the chance to meet him.

This post has been edited by prancingHORSE: Nov 26 2010, 04:50 PM

a friend of mine had told before investment banking do make lots of bucks.. however, he said 10 percent of the people make 90 percent of money in this field.. he told me he has a few frens who reach the position of head of research at age 31-34 and retire at around 35-36 with money enough for their lifetime..but sad to say, quite many of are not suited to this line either dropped out very fast or stay on but did not get to go far..

Totally true, as long as you're the 10% chances are you will be earning big bucks regardless which industry you are in. On average CF may earn more than others but they are other opportunies that bring you to the same destination. Providing you are good at what you do

CF world is still very vague to me...i hope some of the experts here can help me clarify my doubts without bashing me...hehe...what position can a fresh grad hold if he/she were to venture into IBs? Analyst? And what does the job scope involve? what are the criterias that one needs to have to excel in this field?

Good example of ppl who think CF is glamorous, its about investment, about stock market, making huge money. then left after realising daily job is not what they expected.

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Added on November 26, 2010, 10:00 pmDiff bank diff names. but for sure the lowest position. hence ur title will suck, hence watever it is doesn't matter rite?
anyway, u will have clerks lower position than u. fyi: secreteries is higher position than clerk, so make sure u know the diff, altho they seem to be doin the same stuff.

job scope, will be photocopy, binding, typing without typo error, good grammer, obedient, make sure u do 100%, dun even think of being smart and give better ideas. just keep quiet and do as ur told. rmbr ur the most junior, u get to speak or "contribute", once u've proven u can do the basics.

This post has been edited by Aloong: Nov 26 2010, 10:00 PM

Does it help if we have some experience in audit/tax? Will we be still in the same position as fresh grads? Btw, how high is the salary? more thn 3k? and wat is so pressure about the job? izit the deadline or....?

dunno about Malaysia..but i heard that in US the starting pay of an analyst for those graduated from Wharton is about 60-70k USD with the top tier graduate analyst getting up to 100k bonus in their first year..

i heard my fren telling me that CIMB pay 2.8k though with 9 months bonus a few years back..

9 months bonus? wow...is tat even possible?

the IB ppl worked damn hard...i heard their working hours is like 7am to 7pm on good day..bad day can past midnight

do they have certain peak periods like audit? or juz peak all throughout the year?

Assumptions/stories u guys heard are partially true. I don't know many banks, but I only know some (I'm still new in the market). For me, if i wanna know about pay, i'll directly ask somehow who is actually working at that particular bank itself, for say the HR, if they are willing to tell. If not, ask somehow who has a close friend there, which is hard as well. So best of all, get yourself an interview, and ask when u get the offer, but seriously, it's highly unlikely that they would hire a freshie for their CF, but for research houses it's quite common.

There is an exception though, cause I knew this guy from Maybank Investment who got into a department which is CF related, called origination - he said it's sth to do with writing a pitchbook (to get a deal). If there are pro here who could kindly explain what is origination, it would be deeply appreciated. He's freshie, and got confirmed after 6 months via the Maybank Apprenticeship Program. U guys could try it out.

the lenglui friend i has just switched to a different department at a different IB LOL (i got an offer at that diff IB, but rejected it). Words like 'dark','crazy','nonsense' are associated with CF, at least for her company. Ermm, what I can say is that it's very demanding, and the ppl there would expect u to be able to deal with a whole load of sh1t while u're there. Working hours during the project can be into the wee hours of the morning, and in the weekends as well. there is no such thing as peak season, cuz if u're in those huge IB, really, it's always peak season if deals are always pouring in, especially during this time of global economic recovery. U will notice the trend once u're in the market.

In the end, it all depends on what u want in life.

Please don't think CF is about stock market guys, although i have no idea myself what it was until i was working. It's similar, as in the valuation part and they have to keep up to date with the regulatory news that governs the area they are covering (taxation, sovereignty,political,etc). When some corporates want to do M&A,IPO,Privatization,ECM they'll ask those IB for help with an astounding fee. There's definitely A LOT of legal stuff in CF that is dealt here, which is why corporate lawyers are earning soooo much.

All in all, pay is good, bonus can be >12 months, especially for this year, and there's so many types of bonuses... (individual performance, company performance, contractual) but u are risking ur health and ultimately fertility.

If u really want money, go study actuarial science overseas, and dun come back malaysia. or study chemical engineering or some sort of engineering and hopefully land urself in an oil&gas company. really, there are better ways to earn money. For example, being an insurance agent. A manager from Great Eastern claims to have earned a steady 40k per month, having a lot of downlines. I mean, seriously, who doesn't want to be rich? to use a Mont Blanc pen, Salvatore Ferragamo tie, or even an Armani suit. Ah the glorified world of investment bankers... But always remember there are better ways... don't hop in just for the fame, it's just not worth it... unless u loved to be adored by people, and u have the hunger to be praised and complimented all the time...

Smart ada 2 jenis, satu street smart, another book smart. If u're street smart, u can actually earn more (entrepreneur), but of course it's a tougher road, but what is this world is free from potential risks? If u work for ppl, u risk being fired, although the probability is low.

Origination (normally called Invt banking dept) = 70% marketing skills + 30% structuring skills with executioners's help
Execution (normally called CF dept) = 90% execution + 10% structuring to assist originaters

Unfortunately, there is no 100% structuring job/role, as wat most ppl thot they would do.

you call that marketing skill? I call it reverse valuation ROFL
you don't value the company of your client, or target co. if it's a M&A deal, client will tell you the perceived value of his firm and it's up to you to find reasons to support his valuation and get the deal done. DCF? Comparable ratios you learnt in Uni? go chuck it into the dustbin. LOL

the ugly fact is, people in IBK has better bonus relative to the efforts put in by their more hardworking brethren from the execution side. after all IB is still about sales/deal, if you get the deal, you're the MAN.

Think of execution team as the machine operator on the manufacturing floor while IBK as the thick face salesman peddling their wares.

so basically wat does the job involve? mostly preparing reports? meaning we have to have good research skills? how bout calculation n ratios?

like what i've mentioned before. it's a 'dark' world there, and obviously if u wanna get the deal done, u have got to satisfy the clients. anything is else is irrelevant.

you dont expect much info from msians.... not too many of these in msia... come to sg, and you will see a whole new world..

Mind telling more about the investment banking scene in Singapore?

Thanks.

Very, u sounded like an expert in this field. mind telling about them in singapore?

actually term investment bank is very vague.... each bank is diff, must look at how they divide their divisions...

some have prop trading, some brokerage, some long term investment, some in house hedge fund, some financial services.... all diff.. unlike msia, just retail banking and minor corp banking

just look at these banks.

bank of american - meriyll lynch
bnp paribas
barclays capital
citigroup
credit suisse
deusthe bank
goldman sachs
hsbc
jp morgan chase
morgan stanley
nomura
rbs
ubs
societe generale
standard chartered

all in sg, some even make sg their asia pacific hq

btw, i am not working in a bank...

u certainly love to talk sh1t right? u think malaysia is small? can't blame u since u're not in an IB. So, don't talk male chicken if u know nothing. most of the names u've mentioned are in malaysia, in case u've never met them.

@gloomberg
lols look like someone inflated cause they are in IB?
Yes I agree that most of the banks listed are here in malaysia BUT most of them are not a fully fledge bank in malaysia. Some of them are only representative offices or taking a minor role in IB / treasury dealing.

just sharing what i know... no need to period u can share too..

having an office with a name doesnt mean anything... look at the volume of business they have in msia...

like proton in england or aus... just because they managed to sell a few cars there doesnt mean they are a player

that's why you have to look at what kind of division they have in msia... prod trading? brokerage?

The relevant question here is do they hire locally? Presence doesn't mean a thing if you can't get hired in Malaysia, in effect, they are not here at all.

One thing u are totally wrong is bank in msia dun just do retail bank and minor corp bank. Msia have prop trading, hedge fund, brokerage, and a lot others.
The only diff between foreign bankers is they have larger balance sheet and better brand names. In terms of coming out with practicle fund raising solutions for clients, they still have to ride on local banks who knows better.

They do hire local, as in malaysian, but usually they are from overseas. For eg, at UBS, most of them are from Stanford, LSE, Oxford, etc etc...

^experience counts as well. A guy i worked with on a project just got headhunted by one of them banks. IB is not all that people, it's just a lot of smoke and mirrors thrown into it.

Hiring locals and hiring locally are different things. Go figure it out first.

The questions remains that if they hire locally. Something which I think they do not.....unless you are sourced from contacts.

They only hire experienced professionals I believe. Malaysia's market is kinda small, they don't really need fresh grads..

For example, http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSSGE67U0AG20100831 Country head is Malaysian, and head of equity and debt is also Malaysian.

This post has been edited by entryman: Nov 29 2010, 05:25 PM

Errr.... I'm referring to foreign IBs? Obviously they hire malaysians... =,= but usually from top class unis.

Of course it's anyone's playing ground in foreign jobs that recruit fresh grads from an international talent pool.

Feynman was questioning about these foreign IBs hiring here in Malaysia itself. They most likely do not have fresh entry level jobs here, at least not in CIB or CF.

Anyway Macha mind sharing your experiences? Like.. what division & what size of bank.. and your route to entry.. etc?

This post has been edited by entryman: Nov 29 2010, 10:40 PM

no offence, but u guys are stating the obvious. of course they hire experiences ppl and ppl from good uni.
anyway, the reason 'these foreign IB', like merrillynch, jp, (im not talking bout those OCBC, DBS, Stanchart, hsbc, etc) still nid locals Ibankers are because of networks and contacts. knowledge, skills, experience is given.
Bear in mind for very good local deals, not easy for foriegn IB to penetrate, cos political factors is in place. Having Big money just aint good enuf.At the same time a lot of these foreign monies are pouring in. Huge supply. So they nid ppl who can cakap sama bahasa, so to speak, whileof course knows his stuff as well.
Of course that's the reason they invest here in the first place rite? for local big attractive deals to invest in.

This post has been edited by Aloong: Nov 29 2010, 10:34 PM

The foreign banks do hire locally.
Look at Jobstreet Malaysia and you will find Bank of America, Deutsche Bank, RBS and others with job ads every once in a while.
Credit Suisse, JP Morgan Chase, Barclays, and BNP Paribas don't have much.
Obviously Citi, HSBC, and Standard Chartered have bigger operations here and hire more than the rest.

You sure these are for Fresh Grad positions??

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Added on November 29, 2010, 11:09 pmAnd in addition to that, hiring into the IB or CF division too?

This post has been edited by entryman: Nov 29 2010, 11:09 PM

Easiest way to get there? Get into some powderful uni, or start from local big big IB. Like CIMB. It's really easy these days to get into local IBs, provided there are openings. But don't kena con by those mgmt trainees, ask properly whether they provide opportunities for u to get into IB, cuz most of them are for Commercial Banking.

And your story macha?

This post has been edited by entryman: Nov 29 2010, 11:21 PM

what's the volume... not much...

anyway feel free to cont discussion, would like to learn a thing or two...

Wow this place sure is getting a bit heated up...

I would have agree with alaskanbunny on this. While Malaysia market IS NOT small, but its neither as big or develop like our nearest neighbour, Singapore. But hey this is a forum, every one free to give their opinion whether they agree or disagree. So bear with me if I start talking nonsense while I attempt to deliver my humble opinion.

The amount of deals by volume and size done in Singapore is way off the chart if you compare Malaysia with them. The deals that are done in Singapore are complex while being highly effective. I once foolishly attempted to structure a deal in Malaysia thinking I could pull it off. Boy was I wrong, ended up flying to Singapore because Malaysia lacks the liquidity and support to do it. Goes to show the limitation of Malaysia.

As for getting into these IB? If you are centre of attention, with thousands of application applying and you're paying the same price. Won't you want to hire the best of the best? If you graduated from those top uni like Ivy or OxBridge, you're already been filtered and labelled as the top 10%. For a firm looking to hire the top 10% won't you agree it makes your job a lot easier (and less risky) when you can trust the uni to already do one level of filtering?

BUT not coming from a top uni isn't end of the world for you. The journey to get in just a bit harder and you know to prove yourself better and louder! My cousin is a living proof of that statement. 5 years in Malaysia hop over to HK. Oh I forgot he earns a lot too.

Anyway just my mindless babbling.

agree. volume not much as SG.
its a fact SG is much more advance than Msia. again, it's juststating the obvious.

If u wana learn to specilised, SG the place.
But if u wana be a bankers who knows a bit of evrything, Msia would be better.
its a matter of preference.

But surgeons make better money than ER staff, u know wat i mean?

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Added on November 30, 2010, 9:50 pmAgree. malaysia is less develop.
Its about educating the investors.
once investors are educated, they will be wlling to understand and buy into more complex investment opportunities, hence liquidity will rise to match ur complex selling point.

However, on the flip side, thank goodness, Msia is NOT that sophisticated, if not we would have that subprime bonds from US fishing for investors in msia, and we'll be doomed, rite?

One thing (my opinion) about bankers is that no matter how complex/sophiticated/advance a structure is, it must be fundamentally viable and make sense to investors.At the end of the day, being complex means u r incompetent in structuring ur product to be understandable/crystal clear for investors to be convinced.

Do u blame the student or teacher, if majority (>50%) failed in the exam? my 2 cents...

This post has been edited by Aloong: Nov 30 2010, 09:50 PM

agreeable, it's never to late to accomplish things. still, however small malaysia might be, however underdeveloped, it's still our country. Always proud to be a malaysian, while at the same time accepting the fact that singapore fin mkt is indeed much bigga and betta than us. so? if we keep on with the attitude of undermining our own ppl and country, what have we become? of course im only referring to the fin inst here only ya, not talking about some other crap we are having which im not at all proud.

btw, just for u guys punye info, JP Morgan at singapore offers SGD5.6k for back office jobs. Heard this from a dude that just came back from the fruitful land.

hahahaa chill lah, aint that u guys can prove anything. prove la payslip/bank balance? dare?

5.6k?? fresh grad salary?

I didn't say they were hiring fresh graduates.
Certainly not all of them are.
Some of them definitely do - job ads show that.

yes, but of course, they only hire top students. cuz ppl usually progress from back office to middle to front office punye. Trading department.

here, u will never get such pay. convert also kalah liao.

no need convert also lose ady...best can get here is RM 4K... one to one also cannot.. btw, wanna ask something.. when you say top student, only those from oxbridge and ivy league? what if you're damn good at your uni(among the best) but it's not ivy league?


This post has been edited by Knight_2008: Nov 30 2010, 10:48 PM

no la NUS also got, depends on how u present urself, and qualification. no need those ivy league or oxford/cambridge. seriously, i've never studied there, so i wouldn't know their sg std in education, but it's ranked quite high

lol..wanna ask something.. If I only got ACCA any chance of suceeding to even get a interview?

depends la... ur question is so subjective... what field u're trying to get into?

investment bank, corporate finance or research analyst also I'm happy or basically any other investment related job in IB also I'm very happy...any chance for an ACCA?