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 Future of Starcraft 2

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TSfujkenasai
post Nov 16 2010, 02:10 PM, updated 16y ago

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QUOTE
user posted image
It wasn’t meant to be like this. Not at all. Blizzard’s long-anticipated launch of StarCraft II was meant to be a dream – a triumphant return to the RTS genre that made the company’s name in 1997, when the first StarCraft revolutionised realtime strategy gaming. The centrepiece of the game’s launch? South Korea, the epicentre of world competitive gaming, where the low-specs original spread like a virus, hopping from the gamer fringe to become a mainstream sport within five years. Of the ten-million-plus copies of the original game sold worldwide, half were in South Korea. Two television channels sprang up to broadcast matches between the 12 Proleague teams, and fans flocked to see elite players face off against their rivals. The best players pulled in big money, earning up to £200,000 a year.

It’s no wonder that Blizzard looked to South Korea as the land of opportunity for the sequel. With so many players and fans still playing the original, with dedicated television channels running constant promotion, with an entire sport evolving from a single game, what could possibly go wrong?

user posted image

Plenty, as it turns out. When Blizzard made the original StarCraft way back in 1998, in the early bloom of gaming as a massive entertainment industry, the company had no way of predicting the success of the game in Korea. The blossoming of the e-Sports industry there, spearheaded by StarCraft, took place in an ad-hoc, unregulated manner, and not a single dollar was paid to Blizzard by any of the Korean entities which grew up around the StarCraft phenomenon.

This time around, things have changed. Vivendi took part control of Blizzard in 2008 through its majority-owned company Activision, and a new, more commerce-focused slant became apparent despite Blizzard’s relative independence. Now there would be no chance that an entire sport would spring up unauthorised. This time, Blizzard was going to take control of its own intellectual property and control what was done with it. Stung by the experience of battling World Of Warcraft bots, task automators and gold farmers, the company took a hardline stance against KeSPA – the Korean e-Sports Players Association – and the two TV channels, MBC Game and OnGameNet.

user posted image

In an open letter on May 27 – two months before the full release – Blizzard president Mike Morhaime laid it out in the open: “In 2007, we were shocked and disappointed to learn that KeSPA had illegally sold the broadcasting rights for StarCraft tournaments without our consent. With this clear violation of our intellectual property rights, we were forced to become more actively involved in the situation and make our voice be heard.”

Strong words indeed. Morhaime wrote that his company had tried hard to negotiate with KeSPA – which has the backing of the Korean government, the teams, and the TV channels – but had got nowhere, effectively forcing Blizzard to ditch KeSPA and give exclusive broadcast rights to SCII matches to a minnow of an operation, Gom TV. The announcement sent shockwaves through the Korean e-Sports establishment, and rippled out into the English-speaking world. To fend off the perception of a money-grab, Morhaime tackled the issue head on: “Unlike the negative rumours you might have heard, Blizzard’s intention towards e-Sports is not to ‘dominate’ it and create excessive profits from it. From the beginning of the negotiations up to now, the basic framework we have thought of is one where e-Sports can continue to grow, while we can protect our intellectual property rights.”

Why is Blizzard getting so hardline about broadcasting rights? After all, the 12 pro-gaming teams are sponsored by major Korean companies who regard the sport simply as a way to get young people interested in their brands. There’s no real money in broadcasting StarCraft – the large audience is nearly all teenage or in its early 20s, a group that in Korea does not have much disposal income, and attending a StarCraft stadium match costs nothing. As Jae-Gyoon Yi, one of the founders of professional StarCraft and the coach of the Woongjin Stars team, told us, when a company sponsors a pro-gaming team, it’s simply another marketing avenue for product exposure.
http://www.next-gen.biz/features/the-battl...t-ii?page=0%2C0
slickz
post Nov 16 2010, 05:27 PM

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I'm still unclear, with Blizzard wanting to 'control broadcasting rights' do they mean they want moneh for broadcasting?

U think interest for the game will die down simply because blizzard is starting to take control of it?


westley0214
post Nov 16 2010, 10:55 PM

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Take a look at this too. Whom to support? KESPA or Blizzard?

Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessag...topic_id=168895

QUOTE
So Here goes
==============================================================
F***ing KeSPA, despite some views of patriotism they've shown...
1. KeSPA was born
2. Blizzard didn't care about it
3. Found out KeSPA was collecting profit (ticket fee) from offline audience for the OnGameNet Finals match.
4. Blizzard asked KeSPA to stop
5. KeSPA starts an agreement with OGN and MBC to make them pay KeSPA to broadcast SC matches.
6. Blizzard angry. Rawr >
7. GomTV, the only organisation to contact Blizzard directly to ask permission to broadcast 'internet streams' of SC matches. (OGN and MBCgame are cable TV. Original MBC channel itself is a public channel)
8. Blizzard agrees and receives '1 Dollar' to give permission to GomTV. (assuming its a gesture as to show OGN and MBCgame)
9. GomTV opens a league called 'GomTV Classic'
10. At around Season 4 of GomTV Classic, KeSPA calls them and tells them to pay up for broadcasting SC.
11. GomTV tells them we have permission from Blizzard and should step off (b****).
12. KeSPA commands players to not enter GomTV leagues. (Players had contracts with KeSPA)
13. GomTV Classic fails miserably.
14. Blizzard is more angry.
15. Blizzard, to honor their products and protect its copyright and ownership (legal stuff), steps up to the middle of the conflict.
16. Blizzard and KeSPA goes into negotiation.
17. KeSPA goes 'e-sports is also sports', 'do soccer players pay the soccer ball manufacturers for a match', 'SC is a public property and is accessible by anyone' etc bullcrap
18. Blizzard boss Michael Morheim comes to Korea for the promotion of SC2 and also to have a meeting with the current SC progamers.
19. KeSPA contacts all Korean SC teams and threaten them to not meet up with Michael.
20. Michael Morheim was sent back without any gain.
21. Blizzard tries to negotiate but KeSPA still bullcrapping about 'please understand e-sports'
22. Blizzard and KeSPA came to a result of the negotiation.
23. Blizzard gives rights to GomTV to broadcast any Blizzard games (SC, SC2, WoW, W3). At the same time allowed SC leagues to be broadcasted under KeSPA until August. If they do not follow this conduct, Blizzard will officially show legal action.
24. KeSPA tries to appeal and goes aggressive.
25. Since OGN and MBCgame don't want to lose its broadcasting rights, they try to negotiate with GomTV
26. OGN and MBCgame understands they're still going to be paying money to contract the rights to broadcast leagues anyway, only difference is the receipient.
27. KeSPA's only weapon is the contracted players and teams.
28. After SC2 released, KeSPA did not allow SC players to touch the game.
29. Therefore most SC2 gamers are older (near 1st generation) gamers, new faces or players without tied contracts.
30. Suddenly GomTV announces GSL (SC2 open)
31. The scale of the prize money is off the charts and is the highest in the history of e-sports.
32. KeSPA pays online media/journalism organisations to start making articles dissing SC2.

(lists of SC2 hating articles and funny part is the reporter/journalist is the same dude)
*Blizzard, 'Pressuring' Korea with its 'SC2' release up coming.
*[GAME] - Dissapointing reviews of SC2's early stages
*Blizzard says 'We must Destroy SC1 for SC2 to live!
*'Warning' SC2, Your computer may break down.
*'SC2 fried my graphic cards' - Internet Cafe bosses and gamers uproar
*Where has the fame of SC2 gone? After 4 weeks of sales... (they compared to food getting cold)
*NaDa Lee, Yun-Yeol moving to SC2. Once an honored gamer, now a prize money hunter.
*SC2's popularity down the sink. How Deep?


(2 comments below this post)
- There is an article dissing NaDa, titled 'He once was an honorable player, now he is a money hunter' The reporter has openly made an article which he can easily be sued for. I am surprised how far these journalists can go for petty money received by such a big oragnisation. Don't they have shame?

ericpires
post Nov 18 2010, 12:42 PM

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No. It will never be as big as SC: Brood War. All their 3 separate games combined will never reach the 10 million mark. im not planning to buy any of their expansions after the lacklustre SC2: WOL
evofantasy
post Nov 18 2010, 01:59 PM

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QUOTE(ericpires @ Nov 18 2010, 12:42 PM)
No. It will never be as big as SC: Brood War. All their 3 separate games combined will never reach the 10 million mark. im not planning to buy any of their expansions after the lacklustre SC2: WOL
*
the campaign was pretty good (sink like 20hrs to it) but the gem is the online multiplayer for sure...
i'm getting the 2 expansion (sc2 is already the best selling RTS of all time)...
slickz
post Nov 18 2010, 02:43 PM

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QUOTE(ericpires @ Nov 18 2010, 12:42 PM)
No. It will never be as big as SC: Brood War. All their 3 separate games combined will never reach the 10 million mark. im not planning to buy any of their expansions after the lacklustre SC2: WOL
*
Dude, lacklustre? Seriously? No way. It's easily the best RTS I've played to date, with at least 8 years of development time and polish onto the the interface, intense and thorough gamebalancing process. Just what is your idea of a 'good' RTS then? SC2 beats SC in so many ways!
evofantasy
post Nov 18 2010, 02:57 PM

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QUOTE(slickz @ Nov 18 2010, 02:43 PM)
Dude, lacklustre? Seriously? No way. It's easily the best RTS I've played to date, with at least 8 years of development time and polish onto the the interface, intense and thorough gamebalancing process. Just what is your idea of a 'good' RTS then? SC2 beats SC in so many ways!
*
the SP is longer than most of the newer 5hrs SP crap games...
but i honestly think that the multiplayer is where the fun is...
TSfujkenasai
post Nov 18 2010, 03:00 PM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Nov 18 2010, 02:57 PM)
the SP is longer than most of the newer 5hrs SP crap games...
but i honestly think that the multiplayer is where the fun is...
*
Same
smartleader
post Nov 18 2010, 04:36 PM

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We bought it for the Multiplayer don't we? Then tell me which RTS make it as far as SC did? CC? WC3?
evofantasy
post Nov 18 2010, 04:44 PM

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QUOTE(smartleader @ Nov 18 2010, 04:36 PM)
We bought it for the Multiplayer don't we? Then tell me which RTS make it as far as SC did? CC? WC3?
*
war3 did pretty well in esport...
dow was in WCG for 2 years (correct me if i am wrong)...

but in terms of hype, community and prize pool i think sc2 broke all of that...
partly due to sc:bw being an icon for esport on its own...
smartleader
post Nov 18 2010, 04:46 PM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Nov 18 2010, 04:44 PM)
war3 did pretty well in esport...
dow was in WCG for 2 years (correct me if i am wrong)...

but in terms of hype, community and prize pool i think sc2 broke all of that...
partly due to sc:bw being an icon for esport on its own...
*
DoW did make it to WCG but not anymore. WC3 is still okay but as good as SC.
JackAlvins
post Nov 18 2010, 06:02 PM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Nov 18 2010, 04:44 PM)
war3 did pretty well in esport...
dow was in WCG for 2 years (correct me if i am wrong)...

but in terms of hype, community and prize pool i think sc2 broke all of that...
partly due to sc:bw being an icon for esport on its own...
*
Not that many know Moon or Grubby...
And how many people know of anyone in DOW....
while StarCraft BroodWar too many people know of Boxer, Yellow, NalRa, Reach, iloveOOv, JulyZerg, Nada, Savior, Bisu, Stork, Jaedong, Flash.... etc

SC2 is nothing compared to BW at the moment. A lot of the hype and excitement has to be fabricated for the moment which Brood War never needed. Look at your game now, what happened? Where are your chat channels? Wasn't it supposed to come by now? What about the marketplace? For mapmakers to sell their maps.... it's been pushed back to Heart Of The Swarm(Maybe I'll get it by then because selling maps means there'll be quality maps and campaigns). Where are the clans and groups facilities? Why are you taking the extra charges(USD75) for your SC2 from Blizz(or IAH) lying down like a coward? Clan channels? You foolhardily defend Blizz due to your reckless purchase thinking this game is the best thing ever but you still don't complain to demand the best value for the price you paid to Blizzard. You're being ignorant if you think I have been against Blizz with all my rants all this while.

I am still not gonna make the purchase. I probably have enough patience to eventually wait for the BattleChest since Steam sales have been making me enjoy a very very wide variety of games while you are stuck with either trying to spend as much time as possible on SC2 with the same old boring shit every night or your SC2 is installed on your PC but left to rot burning your early purchase value if you do what I do which is buying a variety of original games at low low prices and playing all of them.

I do not deny the potential but it is looking to take too damn long and my money and time looks to be better spent elsewhere while I wait for the successor of Brood War to arrive whether in one special patch or expansion or in another game.

TL;DR It is still not the best time for outsiders to jump in unless you have money to burn. You won't be enjoying it enough for the price you paid. Don't be afraid to voice out even the most minor annoyances. How can Blizzard be good if they don't hear about what is good for you?

PS. Meanwhile, please check out Steam during the Xmas period. I own 100+ original games on Steam(PM me for proof) and I still pirate. I don't pirate SC2 to own it for free. Only third world mentality people think like that ...which is most of Malaysia ...which is why I do not bother to reply to them because talking to stubborn donkeys is a waste of energy.

PPS. Free weekend came too late. I guess my target now is wait Heart Of The Swarm unless there is a special patch happens before that.
smartleader
post Nov 18 2010, 06:25 PM

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QUOTE(JackAlvins @ Nov 18 2010, 06:02 PM)
Not that many know Moon or Grubby... 
And how many people know of anyone in DOW....
while StarCraft BroodWar too many people know of Boxer, Yellow, NalRa, Reach, iloveOOv, JulyZerg, Nada, Savior, Bisu, Stork, Jaedong, Flash.... etc

SC2 is nothing compared to BW at the moment. A lot of the hype and excitement has to be fabricated for the moment which Brood War never needed. Look at your game now, what happened? Where are your chat channels? Wasn't it supposed to come by now? What about the marketplace? For mapmakers to sell their maps.... it's been pushed back to Heart Of The Swarm(Maybe I'll get it by then because selling maps means there'll be quality maps and campaigns). Where are the clans and groups facilities? Why are you taking the extra charges(USD75) for your SC2 from Blizz(or IAH) lying down like a coward? Clan channels? You foolhardily defend Blizz due to your reckless purchase thinking this game is the best thing ever but you still don't complain to demand the best value for the price you paid to Blizzard. You're being ignorant if you think I have been against Blizz with all my rants all this while.

I am still not gonna make the purchase. I probably have enough patience to eventually wait for the BattleChest since Steam sales have been making me enjoy a very very wide variety of games while you are stuck with either trying to spend as much time as possible on SC2 with the same old boring shit every night or your SC2 is installed on your PC but left to rot burning your early purchase value if you do what I do which is buying a variety of original games at low low prices and playing all of them.

I do not deny the potential but it is looking to take too damn long and my money and time looks to be better spent elsewhere while I wait for the successor of Brood War to arrive whether in one special patch or expansion or in another game.

TL;DR It is still not the best time for outsiders to jump in unless you have money to burn. You won't be enjoying it enough for the price you paid. Don't be afraid to voice out even the most minor annoyances. How can Blizzard be good if they don't hear about what is good for you?

PS. Meanwhile, please check out Steam during the Xmas period. I own 100+ original games on Steam(PM me for proof) and I still pirate. I don't pirate SC2 to own it for free. Only third world mentality people think like that ...which is most of Malaysia ...which is why I do not bother to reply to them because talking to stubborn donkeys is a waste of energy.

PPS. Free weekend came too late. I guess my target now is wait Heart Of The Swarm unless there is a special patch happens before that.
*
Seriously, for RTS fans out there, who don't find SC2 is like the best out of all? And ya, am not defending Blizz or what, a lack of some features still need to be improved by them in Bnet. And by the way, who don't know about the cheap sales from Steam? Again, most of them are FPS and still there's some people out there find that RTS suit them more and they go for that.

Still, I think SC2 hold the largest pool of prize among all at the time, simply look at how many tourneys going on.
evofantasy
post Nov 18 2010, 06:29 PM

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honestly i think the price is justified...
RM220 for 2 both SEA + NA...
the multiplayer is where i spent (i think close to 200hrs ++ on) already....
if u have frens to play with, sc2 is a gem imho...
me n my friends kept playing together up to the point i barely have time for 1v1s

i bought l4d2 on steam and i only spent like 10-20 hrs on it before stopping it for good...

for some1 who have bought ps3 games, WoW etc, i think u can blame our weak currency for the high price of games...


Added on November 18, 2010, 6:33 pm
QUOTE(smartleader @ Nov 18 2010, 06:25 PM)
Seriously, for RTS fans out there, who don't find SC2 is like the best out of all? And ya, am not defending Blizz or what, a lack of some features still need to be improved by them in Bnet. And by the way, who don't know about the cheap sales from Steam? Again, most of them are FPS and still there's some people out there find that RTS suit them more and they go for that.

Still, I think SC2 hold the largest pool of prize among all at the time, simply look at how many tourneys going on.
*
most games on steam doesnt really interest me...
l4d only had me playing for 10-20 hrs as i've said...

sc2's best part is the number of players playing it (l4d is close to dying imho)...
most of my frens got sc2 ori due to the multiplayer...
even the pirates when to buy the ori after saving since the multiplayer with friends is what making this game so great...

the campaign is well polished even if i dun really liked the story...
besides the original dark reign, this is by far the most played RTS in my life (and its just few months back)

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Nov 18 2010, 06:33 PM
jeffvip
post Nov 24 2010, 09:23 AM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Nov 18 2010, 06:29 PM)
honestly i think the price is justified...
RM220 for 2 both SEA + NA...
the multiplayer is where i spent (i think close to 200hrs ++ on) already....
if u have frens to play with, sc2 is a gem imho...
me n my friends kept playing together up to the point i barely have time for 1v1s
thumbup.gif

Exactly. Totally worth it rclxm9.gif



@someone else for creating tons of reason for not buying SC2,
Do you think blizzard don't have to maintain their server across the whole world to keep millions of people happy all the time. Can you imagine those hard work? They basically have to work continuously; to patch the game, maintaining server; expanding server, lalala. This game is make so playable even for low-spec computer (4 years ago computer) while the graphic is totally amazing. Tell Crysis to do that!

If someone is gonna give excuse for waiting (wait forever la) for LAN to come b4 buy it... Pls, when LAN come (which I highly doubt it), you will just pirated it anyway. Cut the bull sht

This post has been edited by jeffvip: Nov 24 2010, 09:26 AM
temptation1314
post Nov 24 2010, 10:25 AM

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I really hope NK and SK go war and destroy themself in the end.
No more Kespa, no more Korean, no more arguments.

(joke la tongue.gif ) laugh.gif
evofantasy
post Nov 24 2010, 10:36 AM

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QUOTE(temptation1314 @ Nov 24 2010, 10:25 AM)
I really hope NK and SK go war and destroy themself in the end.
No more Kespa, no more Korean, no more arguments.

(joke la tongue.gif ) laugh.gif
*
u do realize that all SK are capable enuff to take on NK consider they play sc rite? =p
temptation1314
post Nov 24 2010, 10:41 AM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Nov 24 2010, 10:36 AM)
u do realize that all SK are capable enuff to take on NK consider they play sc rite? =p
*
NK knows of ZERG RUSH. tongue.gif
Anyway, back to the topic, I don't really care much about international stuffs.
Heck even if Kespa manage to restrict their players from playing SC2, it doesn't really affect us much in Malaysia.

I'm not sure whether Blizzard will care about them or not, but whether it happens or not, I won't affect us at all. LOL
SC2 will be there, Bnet will be there.
So buy the game if u want, then play, whether there's korean or not. tongue.gif

Oh, and about the LAN stuffs, I support they remove the LAN function. No more "Gay-Arena" telling bullshit that they supporting original, while their 90% of their users are using pirated copy. Funny, haha... doh.gif
carloz28
post Nov 24 2010, 10:45 AM

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Fark Blizzard and their excuses.

First they killed of LAN capabilities

Then they segmented SC2 into 3 CDs eventhough they are the same game.

It all goes down to money. Starcraft owed much of their success to KeSPA and now Blizzard wants to financially milk them off. Starcraft is a good game but without the oversensationalized hype in South Korea they would not be able to achieve the lsame evel of success as what they are now. Talk about gratitude. BOLLOCKS!

This post has been edited by carloz28: Nov 24 2010, 10:48 AM
temptation1314
post Nov 24 2010, 10:56 AM

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QUOTE(carloz28 @ Nov 24 2010, 10:45 AM)
Fark Blizzard and their excuses.

First they killed of LAN capabilities

Then they segmented SC2 into 3 CDs eventhough they are the same game.

It all goes down to money. Starcraft owed much of their success to KeSPA and now Blizzard wants to financially milk them off. Starcraft is a good game but without the oversensationalized hype in South Korea they would not be able to achieve the lsame evel of success as what they are now. Talk about gratitude. BOLLOCKS!
*
IF you read carefully and understand about the EULA, you should have know that Kespa is actually on the fault, I mean LEGAL FAULT.

The LAN capabilities? I support all the way up, to all the games. Seriously, giving you guys a LAN will only give excuses for you to pirate it out and play as a Gay-ers. *Note : I do not mean to point at your personally. I'm pointing at those who does.

About the segmented, well who cares. All the games does that todays. As long as they don't release all 3 chapter together and asking end users to pay RM600-700 in one shot. I know RM200+ games is a bit expensive, but given time, 6 months to 1 year after the release and Blizzard release the 2nd chapter, you could able to save up your pocket money for the game. Yes? No? RM1 per day and half year you get yourself around there.
evofantasy
post Nov 24 2010, 11:11 AM

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QUOTE(temptation1314 @ Nov 24 2010, 10:56 AM)
IF you read carefully and understand about the EULA, you should have know that Kespa is actually on the fault, I mean LEGAL FAULT.

The LAN capabilities? I support all the way up, to all the games. Seriously, giving you guys a LAN will only give excuses for you to pirate it out and play as a Gay-ers. *Note : I do not mean to point at your personally. I'm pointing at those who does.

About the segmented, well who cares. All the games does that todays. As long as they don't release all 3 chapter together and asking end users to pay RM600-700 in one shot. I know RM200+ games is a bit expensive, but given time, 6 months to 1 year after the release and Blizzard release the 2nd chapter, you could able to save up your pocket money for the game. Yes? No? RM1 per day and half year you get yourself around there.
*
sc2 wol (part 1 as some of the haters put it)'s single player have more content than most of the games out there (both console and pc)...
and likewise the multiplayer with its UMS etc...

@ carlos
since i see u do own a ps3, most ps3 games are really really short for like rm 150 as well...
temptation1314
post Nov 24 2010, 11:22 AM

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Agreed, if you looks at SC : BW, the campaign is actually short, for all 3 races there even if all being pulled into one disc.

Just don't expect SP's content for Strategy game to be as much content as RPG Games.
evofantasy
post Nov 24 2010, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(temptation1314 @ Nov 24 2010, 11:22 AM)
Agreed, if you looks at SC : BW, the campaign is actually short, for all 3 races there even if all being pulled into one disc.

Just don't expect SP's content for Strategy game to be as much content as RPG Games.
*
dragons age!!!
carloz28
post Nov 24 2010, 11:26 AM

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QUOTE(temptation1314 @ Nov 24 2010, 10:56 AM)
IF you read carefully and understand about the EULA, you should have know that Kespa is actually on the fault, I mean LEGAL FAULT.

The LAN capabilities? I support all the way up, to all the games. Seriously, giving you guys a LAN will only give excuses for you to pirate it out and play as a Gay-ers. *Note : I do not mean to point at your personally. I'm pointing at those who does.

About the segmented, well who cares. All the games does that todays. As long as they don't release all 3 chapter together and asking end users to pay RM600-700 in one shot. I know RM200+ games is a bit expensive, but given time, 6 months to 1 year after the release and Blizzard release the 2nd chapter, you could able to save up your pocket money for the game. Yes? No? RM1 per day and half year you get yourself around there.
*
EULA? There are tons of video games tourney held each year without getting blackmailed for COPYRIGHT Infringement bullshyte from developers. CAPCOM's Street Fighter 4 tourneys were held in various countries, where their tourney videos were broadcast by SRK, Gootecks and Tougeki + thousands bloggers worldwide. Well correct me if I'm but I didn't recall CAPCOM asking them to pay any ransom for broadcasting rights? Same can be said for Tekken, FIFA and Counter Strike.

Yes, Blizzard are "legally" right to do so but ultimately it is greed that drives the action. Blizzard saw the scale of SC hype in Korea and immediately wanted to tap in the financial part of it.

Segmented games who cares? Mind you, i for one give a shyte about this move. Not to mention there were millions of gamers fuming about this typical Wall Street capitalism move.

People said if you hate it, don't buy it. Simple as that. Im glad i didnt. Saved me 200 bucks and hundreds of hours of life that I will never get back.
Fans of SC2 of course don't mind getting ripped by Blizzard as long as they enjoy the game.

This post has been edited by carloz28: Nov 24 2010, 11:29 AM
evofantasy
post Nov 24 2010, 11:32 AM

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QUOTE(carloz28 @ Nov 24 2010, 11:26 AM)
EULA? There are tons of video games tourney held each year without getting blackmailed for COPYRIGHT Infringement bullshyte from developers. CAPCOM's Street Fighter 4 tourneys were held in various countries, where their tourney videos were broadcast by SRK, Gootecks and Tougeki + thousands bloggers worldwide. Well correct me if I'm but I didn't recall CAPCOM asking them to pay any ransom for broadcasting rights? Same can be said for Tekken, FIFA and Counter Strike.

Yes, Blizzard are "legally" right to do so but ultimately it is greed that drives the action. Blizzard saw the scale of SC hype in Korea and immediately wanted to tap in the financial part of it.

Segmented games who cares? Mind you, i for one give a shyte about this move. Not to mention there were millions of gamers fuming about this typical capitalisme move.

People said if you hate it, don't buy it. Simple as that. Im glad i didnt. Saved me 200 bucks and hundreds of hours of life that i will never get back.
*
this show how in the dark u are...
blizzard is having legal issue wit kespa because kespa is forcing gom to pay them for rights...
blizzard are not having issue wit ppl casting it etc...
but having kespa forcing another party to pay them for using a blizzard game? that's where the lawsuit are...

imagine this, SSF4 have some organization called SFbody...
and MLG wanted to have SSF4 tournament...
SFbody force MLG to pay them (instead of capcom etc)...
so u tell me would capcom be mad????

and look at SSF4 out shortly after SF4...
isn't this like 'part 2'?
why no1 whine about it?
(i do play ssf4 as well on the ps3)

no1 forcing u to buy and i am sorta glad for the hgih price at least we dun have dotards etc polluting the community...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Nov 24 2010, 11:33 AM
jeffvip
post Nov 24 2010, 11:37 AM

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QUOTE(carloz28 @ Nov 24 2010, 11:26 AM)
EULA? There are tons of video games tourney held each year without getting blackmailed for COPYRIGHT Infringement bullshyte from developers. CAPCOM's Street Fighter 4 tourneys were held in various countries, where their tourney videos were broadcast by SRK, Gootecks and Tougeki + thousands bloggers worldwide. Well correct me if I'm but I didn't recall CAPCOM asking them to pay any ransom for broadcasting rights? Same can be said for Tekken, FIFA and Counter Strike.

Yes, Blizzard are "legally" right to do so but ultimately it is greed that drives the action. Blizzard saw the scale of SC hype in Korea and immediately wanted to tap in the financial part of it.

Segmented games who cares? Mind you, i for one give a shyte about this move. Not to mention there were millions of gamers fuming about this typical Wall Street capitalism move.

People said if you hate it, don't buy it. Simple as that. Im glad i didnt. Saved me 200 bucks and hundreds of hours of life that I will never get back.
Fans of SC2 of course don't mind getting ripped by Blizzard as long as they enjoy the game.
*
So what r u gonna do during ur free time? watching movie or drinking? Everybody have their own way to spend on their free time and when u don't like it, don't come to this thread. You don't tell me u have to work 24/7 or travelling around the world on each weekend that u have...
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post Nov 24 2010, 11:37 AM

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well at least Blizzard didn't use all those "preventive" methods employed by other gaming developers to "curb" piracy...all we need, is an internet connection (heck even Screamyx can handle the game)...giving LAN to M'sia community will only kill the game in this country, no one will even consider buying the prepaid cards when all they need is RM10, and blam, in house LAN party

for those who don't wanna fork out RM200+ for basically 2 games (or regions to be precise); and a 1/3 finished game with clearly much longer playtime than those other FULL version games, they will always have their own excuses, while they will gladly spend much much more money on whatever they wanted to do badly, nothing much to say any way
carloz28
post Nov 24 2010, 11:42 AM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Nov 24 2010, 11:11 AM)
sc2 wol (part 1 as some of the haters put it)'s single player have more content than most of the games out there (both console and pc)...
and likewise the multiplayer with its UMS etc...

@ carlos
since i see u do own a ps3, most ps3 games are really really short for like rm 150 as well...
*
I own a PS3 but i don't really buy all the games. I mostly play FPS shooters online like Modern Warfare 2 and KZ2. Thats mainly because I think their multiplayer features are worth the money...it's amazing how people lamented the fact gamers who play pirated games are GAYERS and all that but the fact is who wants to pay RM150 to play a video game knowing that u can play the same shit in your PC for RM5? Im not saying we should support piracy but this is just a irrefutable and undeniable fact of life. If there is a cheaper alternative to get the stuff you want, people will definitely take that route. NOt to mention the demographic of gamers are students and half broke college kids. You think all gamers have the financial horsepower of working class ppl? Buying Ori games doesnt make one feel superior than people who play pirated games.

Same concept, ask yourself if Activision launches Modern Warfare 2 in two seperate discs, a SWAT campaign and a terrorist campaign with same online multiplayer features, will you still buy it? for RM150 each?


Quazacolt
post Nov 24 2010, 11:47 AM

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QUOTE(temptation1314 @ Nov 24 2010, 10:56 AM)
IF you read carefully and understand about the EULA, you should have know that Kespa is actually on the fault, I mean LEGAL FAULT.

The LAN capabilities? I support all the way up, to all the games. Seriously, giving you guys a LAN will only give excuses for you to pirate it out and play as a Gay-ers. *Note : I do not mean to point at your personally. I'm pointing at those who does.

About the segmented, well who cares. All the games does that todays. As long as they don't release all 3 chapter together and asking end users to pay RM600-700 in one shot. I know RM200+ games is a bit expensive, but given time, 6 months to 1 year after the release and Blizzard release the 2nd chapter, you could able to save up your pocket money for the game. Yes? No? RM1 per day and half year you get yourself around there.
*
thats even assuming blizz releases heart of the swarm in a year wwwwwwwwwwww
carloz28
post Nov 24 2010, 11:47 AM

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QUOTE(jeffvip @ Nov 24 2010, 11:37 AM)
So what r u gonna do during ur free time? watching movie or drinking? Everybody have their own way to spend on their free time and when u don't like it, don't come to this thread. You don't tell me u have to work 24/7 or travelling around the world on each weekend that u have...
*
I think the moot point of the discussion here is whether Blizzard should be crucified or be commended for taking legal actions against KeSPA. Not now venting frustrations at starcraft fans. take your little numpty arguments somewhere else and you don't own this thread. So don't act like a douche here telling people when to come in and out.

Fact up or shut up. SPM is aint over yet.

This post has been edited by carloz28: Nov 24 2010, 11:49 AM
temptation1314
post Nov 24 2010, 11:47 AM

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QUOTE(carloz28 @ Nov 24 2010, 11:26 AM)
EULA? There are tons of video games tourney held each year without getting blackmailed for COPYRIGHT Infringement bullshyte from developers. CAPCOM's Street Fighter 4 tourneys were held in various countries, where their tourney videos were broadcast by SRK, Gootecks and Tougeki + thousands bloggers worldwide. Well correct me if I'm but I didn't recall CAPCOM asking them to pay any ransom for broadcasting rights? Same can be said for Tekken, FIFA and Counter Strike.

Yes, Blizzard are "legally" right to do so but ultimately it is greed that drives the action. Blizzard saw the scale of SC hype in Korea and immediately wanted to tap in the financial part of it.

Segmented games who cares? Mind you, i for one give a shyte about this move. Not to mention there were millions of gamers fuming about this typical Wall Street capitalism move.

People said if you hate it, don't buy it. Simple as that. Im glad i didnt. Saved me 200 bucks and hundreds of hours of life that I will never get back.
Fans of SC2 of course don't mind getting ripped by Blizzard as long as they enjoy the game.
*
Yeah, you talk about CAPCOM, COPYRIGHT BULLSHIT and etc.
But did they took the legal actions? nope. Then it doesn't matters. Blizzard does. And what do you mean by "legally" right?
They do have the RIGHTS to do so. Heck I bet you don't even care to read about the EULA, or even if you did, you don't understand fully at all.

I admit Blizzard is greed, no gratitude, and so on, whatever. Boycott all you want, rant all you want, but what puny like you or even the "millions of gamers" could do?
I don't see Blizzard is going down, but infact it's going up.

Honestly, I don't really cares whether they are the strong group or the ones who drives the games up to the top chart but who cares when it all boils down to legal issue? KeSPA is collecting profits without Blizzard consents. Know this that if Blizzard don't care, then you're safe. But if Blizzard do cares, you get yourself in some legal shits.
Quazacolt
post Nov 24 2010, 11:52 AM

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QUOTE(carloz28 @ Nov 24 2010, 11:42 AM)
I own a PS3 but i don't really buy all the games. I mostly play FPS shooters online like Modern Warfare 2 and KZ2. Thats mainly because I think their multiplayer features are worth the money...it's amazing how people lamented the fact gamers who play pirated games are GAYERS and all that but the fact is who wants to pay RM150 to play a video game knowing that u can play the same shit in your PC for RM5? Im not saying we should support piracy but this is just a irrefutable and undeniable fact of life. If there is a cheaper alternative to get the stuff you want, people will definitely take that route. NOt to mention the demographic of gamers are students and half broke college kids. You think all gamers have the financial horsepower of working class ppl? Buying Ori games doesnt make one feel superior than people who play pirated games. 

Same concept, ask yourself if Activision launches Modern Warfare 2 in two seperate discs, a SWAT campaign and a terrorist campaign with same online multiplayer features, will you still buy it? for RM150 each?
*
orly? i sure as hell feel superior than you for supporting the developers over the games i love. and i certainly feel superior when my spoiler-equipped thor come trampling on your god damn base in all its glory. (and horror! -mengsk)
temptation1314
post Nov 24 2010, 11:54 AM

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QUOTE(carloz28 @ Nov 24 2010, 11:42 AM)
Same concept, ask yourself if Activision launches Modern Warfare 2 in two seperate discs, a SWAT campaign and a terrorist campaign with same online multiplayer features, will you still buy it? for RM150 each?
*
Yeah why not? If you're into the game, why not?
Be it there's somebody boycott or talk shits about the game, as long as you like the game, why not?

I see people boycotts about Left 4 Dead 2 but in the end? Almost everyone who boycotts it turn sides.
I see people complains about MW2 price, but still there's people buying, the game ain't dead yet until Black Ops release.

So why not?

So you do mean that WoW with Burning Crusade/Wrath of the Lich King and now Catalysm which is similar to what you said, is wrong? No, see at the player base.
Heck that's even on monthly subs for it. There's still millions of people playing on it.

So why not?

doh.gif

carloz28
post Nov 24 2010, 11:56 AM

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QUOTE(temptation1314 @ Nov 24 2010, 11:47 AM)
I admit Blizzard is greed, no gratitude, and so on, whatever. Boycott all you want, rant all you want, but what puny like you or even the "millions of gamers" could do?
I don't see Blizzard is going down, but infact it's going up.
*
There you go. We do share the same view here. The only difference between you and me now is you supported the greed and i didn't. Fair enough.
KeSPA in fact is doing a Blizzard a good deed by keeping the world Starcraft community alive and kicking.

Remember, I don't chastise Starcraft 2 players but Blizzard. Hate it when people doesn't involved in a debate openly in a more mature way.

This post has been edited by carloz28: Nov 24 2010, 12:14 PM
mic1981
post Nov 24 2010, 12:06 PM

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QUOTE(JackAlvins @ Nov 18 2010, 06:02 PM)
Not that many know Moon or Grubby... 

*
Come on. In worldwide, Moon, Grubby, Sky have more fan then Jaedong & Flash.. Especially SKY, his fans in China is huge, but not as high as Boxer. (I have to admit that) .

Now, Sc2 new comer duno who is Jaedong and Flash or even Nada Julyzerg. (They knew Foxer, Fruit & Nestea ^^)
Last few year, Sc only hot in Korea, Wc3 still look good in China, Msian know DOTA only Orz


Quazacolt
post Nov 24 2010, 12:21 PM

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QUOTE(carloz28 @ Nov 24 2010, 11:56 AM)
There you go. We do share the same view here. The only difference between you and me now is you supported the greed and i didn't. Fair enough.

Remember, I don't chastise Starcraft 2 players but Blizzard. Hate it when people doesn't involved in a debate openly in a more mature way.
*
like you're very mature in:

- potentially supporting piracy

- condemning millions of fans for supporting the game/dev they love (greed huh)

- does not understand the EULA/law/copyright and yet:

- condemns blizzard for exercising their own rights when it has been violated

- still harping on an age old beaten to death argument (more like excuse. read: LAN for sc2) while ignoring the fact that it is no longer needed (for the most part, you're not taking part in huge tournaments involving thousands of dollars now are you?)
carloz28
post Nov 24 2010, 12:28 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Nov 24 2010, 12:21 PM)
like you're very mature in:

- potentially supporting piracy

- condemning millions of fans for supporting the game/dev they love (greed huh)

- does not understand the EULA/law/copyright and yet:

- condemns blizzard for exercising their own rights when it has been violated

- still harping on an age old beaten to death argument (more like excuse. read: LAN for sc2) while ignoring the fact that it is no longer needed (for the most part, you're not taking part in huge tournaments involving thousands of dollars now are you?)
*
Oh, so you are the dude who quotes Mengsk, Thors and shit earlier as your argument. end of conversation & not bothered. lunchtime.

This post has been edited by carloz28: Nov 24 2010, 12:32 PM
MYNAMEISJASON
post Nov 24 2010, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Nov 24 2010, 12:21 PM)
like you're very mature in:

- potentially supporting piracy

- condemning millions of fans for supporting the game/dev they love (greed huh)

- does not understand the EULA/law/copyright and yet:

- condemns blizzard for exercising their own rights when it has been violated

- still harping on an age old beaten to death argument (more like excuse. read: LAN for sc2) while ignoring the fact that it is no longer needed (for the most part, you're not taking part in huge tournaments involving thousands of dollars now are you?)
*
user posted image
I demand my LAN, cause bodoh.net 0.2 is still a pile of lousy crap and I can't stand looking at the prehistoric design and utter delay I get when I demand serious games doh.gif

This post has been edited by MYNAMEISJASON: Nov 24 2010, 12:34 PM
Quazacolt
post Nov 24 2010, 12:44 PM

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QUOTE(carloz28 @ Nov 24 2010, 12:28 PM)
Oh, so you are the dude who quotes Mengsk, Thors and shit earlier as your argument. end of conversation & not bothered. lunchtime.
*
because you got beaten? sure as hell only proven my 2nd point further.


Added on November 24, 2010, 12:46 pm
QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Nov 24 2010, 12:34 PM)
user posted image
I demand my LAN, cause bodoh.net 0.2 is still a pile of lousy crap and I can't stand looking at the prehistoric design and utter delay I get when I demand serious games  doh.gif
*
as we've been through this: don't play then. no one is forcing you to.

and if your "prehistoric design" is referring to the screenshot, i would highly suggest upgrading from a prehistoric computer. and of course, my last point.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Nov 24 2010, 12:46 PM
SUSw3er
post Nov 24 2010, 12:50 PM

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I don't really care what the fuss with kespa and blizzard, cause it doesn't affect me 1 bit, but I think blizzard have the legal rights to sue.

And I think sc2 is worth every pennies spent, cause of blizzard commitment and endless support for their game even after many years of launching them

Blizzard gave us new patches, so we can have more balance gameplay, organize big tournament, new features and updates, bug fix, and many new custom maps. And blizzard even give us a new south east asia regional server so we can have a more faster connection.

Of the many games that I've bought, I say I don't regret paying rm 200+ for this game, even the single player campaign is worth more than that.
dishwasher
post Nov 24 2010, 12:51 PM

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Ya know, one day, someone is gonna walk into your house and sit on your sofa and watch your TV, and demand that you serve them tea. Yeah.
MYNAMEISJASON
post Nov 24 2010, 12:52 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Nov 24 2010, 12:44 PM)
because you got beaten? sure as hell only proven my 2nd point further.


Added on November 24, 2010, 12:46 pm

as we've been through this: don't play then. no one is forcing you to.

and if your "prehistoric design" is referring to the screenshot, i would highly suggest upgrading from a prehistoric computer. and of course, my last point.
*
I didn't pay RM220 for nothing when they promised improvements to that retarded system for almost half a year and nothing has been done. Why can't they even make simple improvements like chat channels and a faster interface. I have a PC more then capable to run starcraft 2 on medium to high, its just that all the spit and shine means nothing to a brood war player like me and therefore I did not enable it.
dlct87
post Nov 24 2010, 12:56 PM

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QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Nov 24 2010, 12:52 PM)
I didn't pay RM220 for nothing when they promised improvements to that retarded system for almost half a year and nothing has been done. Why can't they even make simple improvements like chat channels and a faster interface. I have a PC more then capable to run starcraft 2 on medium to high, its just that all the spit and shine means nothing to a brood war player like me and therefore I did not enable it.
*
the details mean nothing to you, yet you can't stand the "prehistoric" design after you disable the effects? what actually do you want lol?

MYNAMEISJASON
post Nov 24 2010, 12:59 PM

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QUOTE(dlct87 @ Nov 24 2010, 12:56 PM)
the details mean nothing to you, yet you can't stand the "prehistoric" design after you disable the effects? what actually do you want lol?
*
I was referring to battle.net 2.0, if you compare battle.net classic to the new battle.net, you might wonder what went wrong with Blizzard.
dlct87
post Nov 24 2010, 01:01 PM

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QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Nov 24 2010, 12:59 PM)
I was referring to battle.net 2.0, if you compare battle.net classic to the new battle.net, you might wonder what went wrong with Blizzard.
*
tbh i didn't played on the old battle.net, so can't really complaint, or compare though
but well, i'm just a casual player, so can't compare to your needs as a more competitive player either blush.gif
SUSw3er
post Nov 24 2010, 01:03 PM

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calm down! Chat room is just around the corner. blizzard will be releasing it soon enough
MYNAMEISJASON
post Nov 24 2010, 01:09 PM

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QUOTE(w3er @ Nov 24 2010, 01:03 PM)
calm down! Chat room is just around the corner. blizzard will be releasing it soon enough
*
I really hope they do it asap, if you listened to the state of the game broadcast by tyler, incontrol and day9 they have been complaining about the state of battle.net 2.0 since day 1. People always say that you should be grateful cause Blizzard gave us NA access when the fact that region lock was almost absent in all their previous games like D2, WC3 and SC:BW show much backward battle.net 2.0 is compared to their previous games.

This post has been edited by MYNAMEISJASON: Nov 24 2010, 01:14 PM
dlct87
post Nov 24 2010, 01:15 PM

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QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Nov 24 2010, 01:09 PM)
I really hope they do it asap, if you listened to the state of the game broadcast by tyler, incontrol and day9 they have been complaining about the state of battle.net 2.0 since day 1.
*
so what do you think? they don't bother to make the improvements, or the process is harder than they thought, hence the lengthy period?
MYNAMEISJASON
post Nov 24 2010, 01:23 PM

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QUOTE(dlct87 @ Nov 24 2010, 01:15 PM)
so what do you think? they don't bother to make the improvements, or the process is harder than they thought, hence the lengthy period?
*
Can't say they don't bother about making improvements based on their track record, but its taking so long for simple improvements which are already in their previous games, maybe they decided to improve on the chat channel functionality?
Instant_noodle
post Nov 24 2010, 01:56 PM

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i think it is only the trade channel getting improved...

every time a booted wow (i know, this is a sc2 thread...) the only thing that still function well albeit the bazillion ms i'm having from time to time is the trade chat. (bazillion... better stop watching husky's channel...)

o/t: can i add joo guys? seems like me guildies gotten bored of me nonsense and poke fun of me saying i lagged... IRL...
evofantasy
post Nov 24 2010, 02:02 PM

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QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Nov 24 2010, 12:34 PM)
user posted image
I demand my LAN, cause bodoh.net 0.2 is still a pile of lousy crap and I can't stand looking at the prehistoric design and utter delay I get when I demand serious games  doh.gif
*
MLG said its their connection issue (between dallas and the servers)...
not bnet 2.0 issue...
i am one of those who stayed awake (from 11pm till 7am in fact) waiting 2 hrs for the game to restart and u dun see my complaining...


Added on November 24, 2010, 2:05 pm
QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Nov 24 2010, 01:23 PM)
Can't say they don't bother about making improvements based on their track record, but its taking so long for simple improvements which are already in their previous games, maybe they decided to improve on the chat channel functionality?
*
u gotta admit they are wiling to change...
how often u see developers getting crucified for sicking to their fixed formula etc...
some hate bnet 2.0, some loved it...
u cant please every1...

i would prefer the clan system to be implemented over chat channels...
else it be stupid to rename jz to put ur clanname in...
that is my only bnet 2.0 complain so far...


Added on November 24, 2010, 2:08 pm
QUOTE(carloz28 @ Nov 24 2010, 11:56 AM)
There you go. We do share the same view here. The only difference between you and me now is you supported the greed and i didn't. Fair enough.
KeSPA in fact is doing a Blizzard a good deed by keeping the world Starcraft community alive and kicking.

Remember, I don't chastise Starcraft 2 players but Blizzard. Hate it when people doesn't involved in a debate openly in a more mature way.
*
read my post Post #25
kespa is wrong to FORCE OTHER TO PAY THEM JUST TO RUN TOURNAMENTS...
kespa is only supporting sc for their own benefit...
if they care so much bout esport why they forced the progamers to withdraw from gomtv classic?

spunky even said dealing with ogs is like dealing wit communist...
as opposed to the kespa 2.0 for sc2 (formed from the proteams themselve rather than some greedy guys)

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Nov 24 2010, 02:08 PM
Laguna
post Nov 24 2010, 02:21 PM

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QUOTE
read my post Post #25
kespa is wrong to FORCE OTHER TO PAY THEM JUST TO RUN TOURNAMENTS...
kespa is only supporting sc for their own benefit...
if they care so much bout esport why they forced the progamers to withdraw from gomtv classic?

spunky even said dealing with ogs is like dealing wit communist...
as opposed to the kespa 2.0 for sc2 (formed from the proteams themselve rather than some greedy guys)
*
Force who you mean in the days of 2008 yes they did it once and no one turn up for the tournament at all. Isn't every company in the world wants to reap some profits after investing so much in the scene look at blizzard they are reaping all the benefits in the world thanks to the 3 million users . For your info they didn't withdraw anyone during gom msl tournament teams made their decision by themselves to not participate in the tournament because its a waste of time as they have pro league to compete with .

Quazacolt
post Nov 24 2010, 02:25 PM

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QUOTE(w3er @ Nov 24 2010, 12:50 PM)
I don't really care what the fuss with kespa and blizzard, cause it doesn't affect me 1 bit, but I think blizzard have the legal rights to sue.

And I think sc2 is worth every pennies spent, cause of blizzard commitment and endless support for their game even after many years of launching them

Blizzard gave us new patches, so we can have more balance gameplay, organize big tournament, new features and updates, bug fix, and many new custom maps. And blizzard even give us a new south east asia regional server so we can have a more faster connection.

Of the many games that I've bought, I say I don't regret paying rm 200+ for this game, even the single player campaign is worth more than that.
*
well about that... lol
mic1981
post Nov 24 2010, 02:26 PM

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Yes.. we need to have a chat room, easier for us to look for new fren or teammate. Chat room also help us to organize regular training for the same group of people.

Now create game is a bit complicated (need invite this and that, can't i select multiple player in single list?). Hope blizzard could improve that in the future.

BTW Please give Blizzard some time, W3 also take years to improve. (Almost every month a new patch for w3 within the 1st yr).


MYNAMEISJASON
post Nov 24 2010, 02:26 PM

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QUOTE
read my post Post #25
kespa is wrong to FORCE OTHER TO PAY THEM JUST TO RUN TOURNAMENTS...
kespa is only supporting sc for their own benefit...
if they care so much bout esport why they forced the progamers to withdraw from gomtv classic?

spunky even said dealing with ogs is like dealing wit communist...
as opposed to the kespa 2.0 for sc2 (formed from the proteams themselve rather than some greedy guys)


QUOTE(Laguna @ Nov 24 2010, 02:21 PM)
Force who you mean in the days of 2008 yes they did it once and no one turn up for the tournament at all. Isn't every company in the world wants to reap some profits after investing so much in the scene look at blizzard they are reaping all the benefits in the world thanks to the 3 million users . For your info they didn't withdraw anyone during gom msl tournament teams made their decision by themselves to not participate in the tournament because its a waste of time as they have pro league to compete with .
*
Yeah, get your facts right before you post your stuff, they stated they were too busy with the proleague to participate in a tournament that had absolutely no credibility.

This post has been edited by MYNAMEISJASON: Nov 24 2010, 02:28 PM
evofantasy
post Nov 24 2010, 02:28 PM

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QUOTE(Laguna @ Nov 24 2010, 02:21 PM)
Force who you mean in the days of 2008 yes they did it once and no one turn up for the tournament at all. Isn't every company in the world wants to reap some profits after investing so much in the scene look at blizzard they are reaping all the benefits in the world thanks to the 3 million users . For your info they didn't withdraw anyone during gom msl tournament teams made their decision by themselves to not participate in the tournament because its a waste of time as they have pro league to compete with .
*
nope it was forced by kespa, there was a long article/ drama over it...
cause gom paid blizzard USD1 for the broadcasting rights over kespa...
currently, Ongamenet and MBCGame still paid kespa...
they were negotiating with gom (since gom own blizzard's broadcasting rights now) but kespa interfered and in the end kespa is getting sued by blizz...

i agree when u every1 wanna reap profit...
but kespa is ripping off blizzard's IP and yet is championed by the fanboys / excuse by piraters that sc2 sucks lol


Added on November 24, 2010, 2:31 pm
QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Nov 24 2010, 02:26 PM)
Yeah, get your facts right before you post your stuff, they stated they were too busy with the proleague to participate in a tournament that had absolutely no credibility.
*
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessag...topic_id=101934
i get my facts from here...
was lazy to search back those articles lol...


Added on November 24, 2010, 2:32 pm
QUOTE(mic1981 @ Nov 24 2010, 02:26 PM)
Yes.. we need to have a chat room, easier for us to look for new fren or teammate. Chat room also help us to organize regular training for the same group of people. 

Now create game is a bit complicated (need invite this and that, can't i select multiple player in single list?). Hope blizzard could improve that in the future.

BTW Please give Blizzard some time, W3 also take years to improve. (Almost every month a new patch for w3 within the 1st yr).
*
actually u can make ur own chat with other ppl in bnet2.0...
but ppl dun bother or even know about it...
that's y i find chatchannels are pointless with spam etc...
not to mention a waste of bandwith...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Nov 24 2010, 02:32 PM
MYNAMEISJASON
post Nov 24 2010, 02:34 PM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Nov 24 2010, 02:28 PM)
nope it was forced by kespa, there was a long article/ drama over it...
cause gom paid blizzard USD1 for the broadcasting rights over kespa...
currently,  Ongamenet and MBCGame still paid kespa...
they were negotiating with gom (since gom own blizzard's broadcasting rights now) but kespa interfered and in the end kespa is getting sued by blizz...

i agree when u every1 wanna reap profit...
but kespa is ripping off blizzard's IP and yet is championed by the fanboys / excuse by piraters that sc2 sucks lol


Added on November 24, 2010, 2:31 pm

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessag...topic_id=101934
i get my facts from here...
was lazy to search back those articles lol...
*
Then explain to me why did 5 progaming teams still decided to join it?

Will not Participate: Air Force ACE, eSTRO, MBCgame, KT Rolster, OGN Sparkyz, STX Soul, SK Telecom1
Remaining: Hwaseung Oz, Samsung Khan, Woojin Stars, CJ Entus, Wemade FOX.
Source

QUOTE
GOM TV is not interested in running a league with only 5 remaining teams.
The reason the teams listed are not participating in GOM TV Season 4, is that the workload of the players involved seems to be extremely demanding and thus have little time to prepare for game with the current lineup of tournaments and even more coming up in the future.



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post Nov 24 2010, 02:39 PM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Nov 24 2010, 02:28 PM)
nope it was forced by kespa, there was a long article/ drama over it...
cause gom paid blizzard USD1 for the broadcasting rights over kespa...
currently,  Ongamenet and MBCGame still paid kespa...
they were negotiating with gom (since gom own blizzard's broadcasting rights now) but kespa interfered and in the end kespa is getting sued by blizz...

i agree when u every1 wanna reap profit...
but kespa is ripping off blizzard's IP and yet is championed by the fanboys / excuse by piraters that sc2 sucks lol
*
That issue already been discussed to death kespa didn't do anything or had anything to in influencing teams not to go to GOM MSL .You mostly ready people comment on TL.net and some of them are not entirely are right sources to cite or taken them from . Yeah we all know the copyright issues and the ongoing stuffed but it doesn't concerns me at all because msl and pro league still are live and kicking . Kespa isn't reaping i remembered posting back ago that they had the actual IP rights to broadcast games but they actually sold it to a subsidiary company . Kespa isn't champion by piraters or fanboys as most people who actually had interest in sc2 have to buy the game and even I owned Starcraft battlechest set for my self . You are merely accusing everyone who supports kespa are piraters that's quite shallow way of thinking by the way sc2 sucks for your info just ask the previous malaysia wcg champion 2009 and any pass champions they will tell you straight Sc2 is merely a shadow of their previous glory self .
evofantasy
post Nov 24 2010, 02:39 PM

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QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Nov 24 2010, 02:34 PM)
Then explain to me why did 5 progaming teams still decided to join it?

Will not Participate: Air Force ACE, eSTRO, MBCgame, KT Rolster, OGN Sparkyz, STX Soul, SK Telecom1
Remaining: Hwaseung Oz, Samsung Khan, Woojin Stars, CJ Entus, Wemade FOX.
Source
*
It seems the closer StarCraft 2 comes towards a release date the more that Blizzard Entertainment and Kespa disagree between things. Blizzard of course plays a big role in GOM TV by helping support the prize pool and assisting to help popularize GOM TV for StarCraft, WarCraft 3, and World of WarCraft events and leagues. This is leading most people to assuming that Kespa could ve influencing some of the teams to not participate in GOM TV Season 4.

^
from the same article
dun do selective reading
Quazacolt
post Nov 24 2010, 02:39 PM

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QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Nov 24 2010, 12:52 PM)
I didn't pay RM220 for nothing when they promised improvements to that retarded system for almost half a year and nothing has been done. Why can't they even make simple improvements like chat channels and a faster interface. I have a PC more then capable to run starcraft 2 on medium to high, its just that all the spit and shine means nothing to a brood war player like me and therefore I did not enable it.
*
1) they've promised and will implement the features eventually (just so you know, things they promised back in sc1/bw days took longer to come to reality than compared to sc2. of course, removing chat channels seemed (and is in fact at least imho) like a step back and considering the never ending high expectation towards blizzard, it is entirely understandable on your post/previous postings. however as i've said and will say again: if it really makes you THAT miserable, you can opt to not play.

2) then dont* enable those spit and shine. stick all low and make your sc2 look like sc1.

=edit=
lol left a word out w

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Nov 24 2010, 02:49 PM
evofantasy
post Nov 24 2010, 02:41 PM

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QUOTE(Laguna @ Nov 24 2010, 02:39 PM)
That issue already been discussed to death kespa didn't do anything or had anything to in influencing teams not to go to GOM MSL .You mostly ready people comment on TL.net and some of  them are not entirely are right sources to cite or taken them from . Yeah we all know the copyright issues and the ongoing stuffed but it doesn't concerns me at all because msl and pro league still are live and kicking . Kespa isn't reaping i remembered posting back ago that they had the actual IP rights to broadcast games but they actually sold it to a subsidiary company . Kespa isn't champion by piraters or fanboys as most people who actually had interest in sc2 have to buy the game and even I owned Starcraft battlechest set for my self . You are merely accusing everyone who supports kespa are piraters that's quite shallow way of thinking by the way sc2 sucks for your info just ask the previous malaysia wcg champion 2009 and any pass champions they will tell you straight Sc2 is merely a shadow of their previous glory self .
*
if so why blizzard is able to take legal action on kespa?
if kespa is clean and right, why blizzard is able to file a case against them?


Added on November 24, 2010, 2:42 pm
QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Nov 24 2010, 02:39 PM)
1) they've promised and will implement the features eventually (just so you know, things they promised back in sc1/bw days took longer to come to reality than compared to sc2. of course, removing chat channels seemed (and is in fact at least imho) like a step back and considering the never ending high expectation towards blizzard, it is entirely understandable on your post/previous postings. however as i've said and will say again: if it really makes you THAT miserable, you can opt to not play.

2) then enable those spit and shine. stick all low and make your sc2 look like sc1.
*
any1 serious about sc2 competitively would be playing at "all low, effects n textures to ultra"
if u are serious enough u would know why for such settings...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Nov 24 2010, 02:42 PM
Quazacolt
post Nov 24 2010, 02:42 PM

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QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Nov 24 2010, 01:23 PM)
Can't say they don't bother about making improvements based on their track record, but its taking so long for simple improvements which are already in their previous games, maybe they decided to improve on the chat channel functionality?
*
heres the thing though: how do you know for certain, that its all SIMPLE improvements? chat channels yeah, but region lock/server etc may not be as easy as you thing when blizzard's current goal is to have a unified/standard platform for all their current and future games.
mic1981
post Nov 24 2010, 02:43 PM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Nov 24 2010, 02:28 PM)
nope it was forced by kespa, there was a long article/ drama over it...
cause gom paid blizzard USD1 for the broadcasting rights over kespa...
currently,  Ongamenet and MBCGame still paid kespa...
they were negotiating with gom (since gom own blizzard's broadcasting rights now) but kespa interfered and in the end kespa is getting sued by blizz...

i agree when u every1 wanna reap profit...
but kespa is ripping off blizzard's IP and yet is championed by the fanboys / excuse by piraters that sc2 sucks lol
*
I don't see a point why Blizzard who using years of time to prefect a game, why don't they have the right to selling a tournament license of their own game. shocking.gif
evofantasy
post Nov 24 2010, 02:47 PM

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QUOTE(mic1981 @ Nov 24 2010, 02:43 PM)
I don't see a point why Blizzard who using years of time to prefect a game, why don't they have the right to selling a tournament license of their own game.  shocking.gif
*
they did sell it for USD1 to GOMtv lol...
Quazacolt
post Nov 24 2010, 02:50 PM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Nov 24 2010, 02:41 PM)
if so why blizzard is able to take legal action on kespa?
if kespa is clean and right, why blizzard is able to file a case against them?


Added on November 24, 2010, 2:42 pm

any1 serious about sc2 competitively would be playing at "all low, effects n textures to ultra"
if u are serious enough u would know why for such settings...
*
i just edited my post. point being: it wasn't anything to b**** about. yet hes just b****ing about it on and on.
mic1981
post Nov 24 2010, 02:52 PM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Nov 24 2010, 02:47 PM)
they did sell it for USD1 to GOMtv lol...
*
But Kespa overcome it, and asking the GOMtv to paid another broadcast fees. rclxub.gif
MYNAMEISJASON
post Nov 24 2010, 03:06 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Nov 24 2010, 02:50 PM)
i just edited my post. point being: it wasn't anything to b**** about. yet hes just b****ing about it on and on.
*
QUOTE
1) they've promised and will implement the features eventually (just so you know, things they promised back in sc1/bw days took longer to come to reality than compared to sc2. of course, removing chat channels seemed (and is in fact at least imho) like a step back and considering the never ending high expectation towards blizzard, it is entirely understandable on your post/previous postings. however as i've said and will say again: if it really makes you THAT miserable, you can opt to not play.

I haven't played for weeks simply due to the fact that battle.net 2.0 disconnects my ladder games or the opponent gets disconnected for fun, and I've never had this problem in any other ori game, heck even flying spaghetti monster can do better than that.
temptation1314
post Nov 24 2010, 03:22 PM

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QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Nov 24 2010, 03:06 PM)
I haven't played for weeks simply due to the fact that battle.net 2.0 disconnects my ladder games or the opponent gets disconnected for fun, and I've never had this problem in any other ori game, heck even flying spaghetti monster can do better than that.
*
The I believe you can stick with your flying pasta community then.
MYNAMEISJASON
post Nov 24 2010, 03:25 PM

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QUOTE(temptation1314 @ Nov 24 2010, 03:22 PM)
The I believe you can stick with your flying pasta community then.
*
When I see my younger brother play dotard on flying pasta smoothly compared to a 1 v 1 SC2 game, I get furious with IAH and Blizzard.

This post has been edited by MYNAMEISJASON: Nov 24 2010, 03:26 PM
Quazacolt
post Nov 24 2010, 03:25 PM

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QUOTE(mic1981 @ Nov 24 2010, 02:52 PM)
But Kespa overcome it, and asking the GOMtv to paid another broadcast fees.  rclxub.gif
*
and thats why blizzard sueing them lorh rclxms.gif


Added on November 24, 2010, 3:25 pm
QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Nov 24 2010, 03:06 PM)
I haven't played for weeks simply due to the fact that battle.net 2.0 disconnects my ladder games or the opponent gets disconnected for fun, and I've never had this problem in any other ori game, heck even flying spaghetti monster can do better than that.
*
so if you dont play, you happy, and dont b**** about something thats being beaten to death, we happy too, yes?

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Nov 24 2010, 03:25 PM
MYNAMEISJASON
post Nov 24 2010, 03:28 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Nov 24 2010, 03:25 PM)
and thats why blizzard sueing them lorh  rclxms.gif


Added on November 24, 2010, 3:25 pm

so if you dont play, you happy, and dont b**** about something thats being beaten to death, we happy too, yes?
*
I want to play, you moron and Blizzard is giving me shit quality for the money I saved up, considering you spent thousands on WoW, you wouldn't give a damn anyway.

This post has been edited by MYNAMEISJASON: Nov 24 2010, 03:28 PM
temptation1314
post Nov 24 2010, 03:32 PM

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QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Nov 24 2010, 03:28 PM)
I want to play, you moron and Blizzard is giving me shit quality for the money I saved up, considering you spent thousands on WoW, you wouldn't give a damn anyway.
*
Just don't play ok? Go play with your pasta. No lags, you happy enough. Don't support ori either.
If something is not right with the games, you should have find a way to improve, or talk about improving.
Giving feedbacks/bugs report to Blizzard is one of the way, even you might think that nobody care to read them.

b****ing here won't improve the performance of the game you've paid for.
dishwasher
post Nov 24 2010, 03:37 PM

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I won't completely (and blindly) put the blame on Blizzard and Bnet my dear. I get pretty crap connection to Bnet too, but restarting my router/getting a new IP can more often than not solve my connection problem.

Mind you, I've seen tons of complaints over at the SC2 support forums, so there I personally think that there IS a problem with the connection to Bnet. But whatever, I can solve my connection problems most nights and get a game or two in. Sure beats Steam(ing pile of shit).
MYNAMEISJASON
post Nov 24 2010, 03:38 PM

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QUOTE(temptation1314 @ Nov 24 2010, 03:32 PM)
Just don't play ok? Go play with your pasta. No lags, you happy enough. Don't support ori either.
If something is not right with the games, you should have find a way to improve, or talk about improving.
Giving feedbacks/bugs report to Blizzard is one of the way, even you might think that nobody care to read them.

b****ing here won't improve the performance of the game you've paid for.
*
You'll be dumb if you think I never send feedback and bug reports to Blizzard before, I've done it since when I bought the game and they could not recognize my account as they registered my battle.net account under the NA server. I have been posting feedback about the disconnections and all I get is a bot reply. And don't relate me with pasta, I hate it.
evofantasy
post Nov 24 2010, 03:39 PM

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QUOTE(dishwasher @ Nov 24 2010, 03:37 PM)
I won't completely (and blindly) put the blame on Blizzard and Bnet my dear. I get pretty crap connection to Bnet too, but restarting my router/getting a new IP can more often than not solve my connection problem.

Mind you, I've seen tons of complaints over at the SC2 support forums, so there I personally think that there IS a problem with the connection to Bnet. But whatever, I can solve my connection problems most nights and get a game or two in. Sure beats Steam(ing pile of shit).
*
thing is that its mostly tmnet that sucks...
and i dun expect blizzard to make a version just to support our crappy net lol...
if they do and sell it at 400bucks i would buy it but who would?
i dun see my frens from sg/ ph having trouble wit the game...
dishwasher
post Nov 24 2010, 03:40 PM

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QUOTE(temptation1314 @ Nov 24 2010, 03:32 PM)
Just don't play ok? Go play with your pasta. No lags, you happy enough. Don't support ori either.
If something is not right with the games, you should have find a way to improve, or talk about improving.
Giving feedbacks/bugs report to Blizzard is one of the way, even you might think that nobody care to read them.

b****ing here won't improve the performance of the game you've paid for.
*
Well, if he paid for the game and can't play, he does have a right to b****. The only thing is, he's doing it here, which the last I checked, wasn't the Bnet forums, and a lot of his b****ing is about wanting the good ole days of KeSPA and BW back.


Added on November 24, 2010, 3:42 pm
QUOTE(evofantasy @ Nov 24 2010, 03:39 PM)
thing is that its mostly tmnet that sucks...
and i dun expect blizzard to make a version just to support our crappy net lol...
if they do and sell it at 400bucks i would buy it but who would?
i dun see my frens from sg/ ph having trouble wit the game...
*
Exactly my point. We all know how badly Streamyx sucks. Pointing the finger at Blizzard and IAH at the first signs of having problems connecting is, on the whole, kinda (pardon me) stupid.

This post has been edited by dishwasher: Nov 24 2010, 03:42 PM
temptation1314
post Nov 24 2010, 03:44 PM

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QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Nov 24 2010, 03:38 PM)
You'll be dumb if you think I never send feedback and bug reports to Blizzard before, I've done it since when I bought the game and they could not recognize my account as they registered my battle.net account under the NA server. I have been posting feedback about the disconnections and all I get is a bot reply. And don't relate me with pasta, I hate it.
*
Pasta nice what... sad.gif
Spaggeti only sux one... tongue.gif (Hell both same thing what. laugh.gif )

Anyway, if you did, then ok la.
At least you do your part.
Solving a bugs isn't as easy as repairing a whole on your box. I did work together with my friends to create a flash game before, and knowing this. Solving a bugs could takes weeks to month, as because if you moved something from one place to another place, there's some stranger will come and take that empty place and start spreading viruses.

Sorry la if offended you. smile.gif

This post has been edited by temptation1314: Nov 24 2010, 03:45 PM
MYNAMEISJASON
post Nov 24 2010, 03:44 PM

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QUOTE(dishwasher @ Nov 24 2010, 03:40 PM)
Well, if he paid for the game and can't play, he does have a right to b****. The only thing is, he's doing it here, which the last I checked, wasn't the Bnet forums, and a lot of his b****ing is about wanting the good ole days of KeSPA and BW back.


Added on November 24, 2010, 3:42 pm
Exactly my point. We all know how badly Streamyx sucks. Pointing the finger at Blizzard and IAH at the first signs of having problems connecting is, on the whole, kinda (pardon me) stupid.
*
The problem is, I'm not using streamyx.
QUOTE
Pasta nice what... sad.gif
Spaggeti only sux one... tongue.gif (Hell both same thing what. laugh.gif )

Anyway, if you did, then ok la.
At least you do your part.
Solving a bugs isn't as easy as repairing a whole on your box. I did work together with my friends to create a flash game before, and knowing this. Solving a bugs could takes weeks to month, as because if you moved something from one place to another place, there's some stranger will come and take that empty place and start spreading viruses.

Sorry la if offended you. smile.gif
I've been doing programming for a long time and I understand that, but they have a big big team to solve it mah. I've got a few friends planning to sell their their accounts due to disconnections already.


This post has been edited by MYNAMEISJASON: Nov 24 2010, 03:49 PM
dishwasher
post Nov 24 2010, 03:50 PM

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Well, I wouldn't actually know that would I. It was a safe bet seeing as how we're in Malaysia and all and everything goes through f***ing TM's backbone anyway.

Good luck in solving your problems tho.
temptation1314
post Nov 24 2010, 03:55 PM

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QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Nov 24 2010, 03:44 PM)
The problem is, I'm not using streamyx.

I've been doing programming for a long time and I understand that, but they have a big big team to solve it mah. I've got a few friends planning to sell their their accounts due to disconnections already.
*
Hmm, too bad lor then, why you never try using streamyx?
AFAIK, my streamyx with online gaming are on statisfication 90% and above.

WoW I get 200-400ms, most online games are cool so far, mostly are playing with local fellow KGM.

and heck, I'm on 1MB plan. tongue.gif
Quazacolt
post Nov 24 2010, 04:13 PM

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QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Nov 24 2010, 03:28 PM)
I want to play, you moron and Blizzard is giving me shit quality for the money I saved up, considering you spent thousands on WoW, you wouldn't give a damn anyway.
*
ohhhhh so now I am giving you shit quality for your money you saved up? cry more will you?


Added on November 24, 2010, 4:14 pm
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


steam is fine ok! you get capitalist loli (and a fairy!) from it!


Added on November 24, 2010, 4:17 pm
QUOTE(dishwasher @ Nov 24 2010, 03:40 PM)
Well, if he paid for the game and can't play, he does have a right to b****. The only thing is, he's doing it here, which the last I checked, wasn't the Bnet forums, and a lot of his b****ing is about wanting the good ole days of KeSPA and BW back.


Added on November 24, 2010, 3:42 pm
Exactly my point. We all know how badly Streamyx sucks. Pointing the finger at Blizzard and IAH at the first signs of having problems connecting is, on the whole, kinda (pardon me) stupid.
*
you're the cancer thats going to kill this thread. tsk tsk


Added on November 24, 2010, 4:20 pm
QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Nov 24 2010, 03:44 PM)
The problem is, I'm not using streamyx.

I've been doing programming for a long time and I understand that, but they have a big big team to solve it mah. I've got a few friends planning to sell their their accounts due to disconnections already.
*
why aint that your problem?
fact: streamyx, while being a shitty ass ISP, is still malaysia's best hard wired landline isp (for the consumer anyways, unless you got private corporate lines lolloolol)

if you're not even using that, QQ?

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Nov 24 2010, 04:20 PM
evofantasy
post Nov 24 2010, 04:27 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Nov 24 2010, 04:13 PM)
ohhhhh so now I am giving you shit quality for your money you saved up? cry more will you?


Added on November 24, 2010, 4:14 pm
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


steam is fine ok! you get capitalist loli (and a fairy!) from it!


Added on November 24, 2010, 4:17 pm

you're the cancer thats going to kill this thread. tsk tsk


Added on November 24, 2010, 4:20 pm
why aint that your problem?
fact: streamyx, while being a shitty ass ISP, is still malaysia's best hard wired landline isp (for the consumer anyways, unless you got private corporate lines lolloolol)

if you're not even using that, QQ?
*
cause lan and kespa would make sc2 the best game ever!
SUSsibugi
post Nov 24 2010, 04:34 PM

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SC came when there no real good multiplayers games around "red alerts" s8ck big time...

now there are onlinegame, cs, dota & etc to compete with SC2

last time ppl only play sc no other choice
frags
post Nov 24 2010, 04:37 PM

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Why does every thread like this devolve into a shouting match? doh.gif Can people move on? There are other dedicated complain threads if I recall correctly. Remember, the TOPIC.
dishwasher
post Nov 24 2010, 04:39 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Nov 24 2010, 04:13 PM)
you're the cancer thats going to kill this thread. tsk tsk
f*** you Quaz. Lets play Raynor's party and the Roach snake thingy tonight lololol its damn fun.
frags
post Nov 24 2010, 04:41 PM

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I won't just closed this thread, expect to get warnings if anyone steps into stupid argument territory. Stick to the topic.
evofantasy
post Nov 24 2010, 04:44 PM

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QUOTE(sibugi @ Nov 24 2010, 04:34 PM)
SC came when there no real good multiplayers games around "red alerts" s8ck big time...

now there are onlinegame, cs, dota & etc to compete with SC2

last time ppl only play sc no other choice
*
actually CnC was rpetty big...
RA was all over the cyber cafes in the state...
but it slowly die down...
nt much RTS since then can compete wit blizz...
sup comm and dow are the 2 which i can recall at international gaming competition...
dishwasher
post Nov 24 2010, 04:51 PM

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Blizz was smart. Bnet was probably the first gaming network that was freely provided by the game's own developers. Well maybe not the first, but it was definitely the first big, well known one. Sure beats Gamespy.

Imagine if Westwood had offered a similar service. Things might be a whole lot different now.
Quazacolt
post Nov 24 2010, 04:52 PM

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QUOTE(dishwasher @ Nov 24 2010, 04:39 PM)
f*** you Quaz. Lets play Raynor's party and the Roach snake thingy tonight lololol its damn fun.
*
i think i played raynor's party. i faild that wwwww
maybe can try roach snake lol

and yes, this is that future (for 'casuals' anyways lol), friggin "ums"
(i've got my zerg hunter tank/healer(jesus balls playing healer in sg hotel wifi ROFL!)/dps character slots filled LOL)


Added on November 24, 2010, 4:57 pm
QUOTE(dishwasher @ Nov 24 2010, 04:51 PM)
Blizz was smart. Bnet was probably the first gaming network that was freely provided by the game's own developers. Well maybe not the first, but it was definitely the first big, well known one. Sure beats Gamespy.

Imagine if Westwood had offered a similar service. Things might be a whole lot different now.
*
im not sure if they were the first or not, but total annihilation (the ancestor of supreme commander) had the same service (called boneyard IINM?)

heres the biggest difference of TA vs SC1 back then regardless which is more fun (for the record anyways, i enjoyed TA more generally, for melee combat anyways):

- SC1 can be played on something like my old 200mhz pentium pro that has 96MB EDO RAM (who still remembers these specs? w)
8 player ffa BGH etc, 200 food carrier/BC/hydra/muta spams etc. no problem

- TA will lag if the game drags beyond a 10-20min rush, and thats on 1v1, anything beyond that and/or timeframe, will be an utter lagfest of either machine, or connection (lol spam bootscreens cuz someone [like me] couldnt afford/own a decent 3D gaming machine [at that time anyways])

then of course theres the korean esports phenomenon later on.
eventually TA died off while sc1 still remained strong even till this very day after 12 years.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Nov 24 2010, 04:57 PM
cupmee2nd
post Nov 24 2010, 05:06 PM

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Warcraft 3 is very much alive today with custom maps. I played melee game on flying paste monster and pwn 99% of the user there. Which mean they only play custom maps.

SC2 need to focus on DotA, need to try and give dotard a reason to buy.. Oh.. wait why will Dotard buy a game lol.
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post Nov 24 2010, 05:08 PM

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QUOTE(cupmee2nd @ Nov 24 2010, 05:06 PM)
Warcraft 3 is very much alive today with custom maps. I played melee game on flying paste monster and pwn 99% of the user there. Which mean they only play custom maps.

SC2 need to focus on DotA, need to try and give dotard a reason to buy.. Oh.. wait why will Dotard buy a game lol.
*
well, they are releasing an official dota. despite the presence of SOTIS. so yea. (from the korean reports, looks ok, i guess.)
cupmee2nd
post Nov 24 2010, 05:24 PM

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My dotard friend say SOTIS sucks... He was trying sc2 out and only played that game.. lol

Most Malaysia gamers are pc, so you think they will be willing to buy sc2 if ice frog stop making Dota for war3 and say to buy my Dota2 or play Dota on sc2.

I dunno what am I thinking now, must be the 3 hours of sleep last night..
Quazacolt
post Nov 24 2010, 05:26 PM

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QUOTE(cupmee2nd @ Nov 24 2010, 05:24 PM)
My dotard friend say SOTIS sucks... He was trying sc2 out and only played that game.. lol

Most Malaysia gamers are pc, so you think they will be willing to buy sc2 if ice frog stop making Dota for war3 and say to buy my Dota2 or play Dota on sc2.

I dunno what am I thinking now, must be the 3 hours of sleep last night..
*
well it does suck. simply cuz of the horrible patching and unit collision etc. and of course, trying to implement rpg'ish game over a rts that isnt native to that. and being new at it (zerg hunter for example, is in a way, leap and bounds better especially when you consider the improvement since beta/map release until this very day)

as for icefrog, he valve ady.
cupmee2nd
post Nov 24 2010, 05:27 PM

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That why you think Dotard going to buy DotA2?
kEazYc
post Nov 24 2010, 05:32 PM

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Lol DotA2, non of my dotards friend know about this until i showed them the concept picture of the heroes.
Quazacolt
post Nov 24 2010, 05:34 PM

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QUOTE(cupmee2nd @ Nov 24 2010, 05:27 PM)
That why you think Dotard going to buy DotA2?
*
i dont think it will even be called dota, and if it isnt dota, i doubt they'd buy. so idunnolol

oh and... dotards buy stuff?
cupmee2nd
post Nov 24 2010, 05:35 PM

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Valve going or trying to copyright Dota2 and Dota3 right?
Quazacolt
post Nov 24 2010, 05:48 PM

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QUOTE(cupmee2nd @ Nov 24 2010, 05:35 PM)
Valve going or trying to copyright Dota2 and Dota3 right?
*
no idea on that lol. but considering's blizzard's eula on maps, i think it'd be hard. that said, i believe blizz/valve are on good terms with each other and im sure they would work something out. i remember the days where HL2 were delayed till no end cuz fatty gabe was busy playing WoW wwwwwwww
dishwasher
post Nov 24 2010, 06:05 PM

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LOL, which server was it that the entire Valve company played on? Was it Gorgonash? I remember my friend was on good terms with a bunch of them and one day they were like 'Oh did you know? We're actually Valve?'
thejols
post Nov 24 2010, 06:10 PM

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QUOTE(dishwasher @ Nov 24 2010, 06:05 PM)
LOL, which server was it that the entire Valve company played on? Was it Gorgonash? I remember my friend was on good terms with a bunch of them and one day they were like 'Oh did you know? We're actually Valve?'
*
that was epic!


Quazacolt
post Nov 24 2010, 06:12 PM

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QUOTE(dishwasher @ Nov 24 2010, 06:05 PM)
LOL, which server was it that the entire Valve company played on? Was it Gorgonash? I remember my friend was on good terms with a bunch of them and one day they were like 'Oh did you know? We're actually Valve?'
*
ah that i didn't knew. never really investigated. but it was posted all around news/gaming sites etc. (obviously the servers/toons werent revealed LOL!)
quest_5692
post Nov 24 2010, 06:35 PM

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sc2 will be bigger but anti piracy will make it not that popular in third world countries like malaysia. but still, with strict anti-piracy and un friendly surface, they manage to sell like hotcakes. most of us here bought the ori game too =)

nice that dotards are not in the community to pollute pirate-mindset. *someone said, it will be stupid to pay rm220 if you can get the same thing for rm5* no its not stupid.

and to kespa, gtfo, kespa did not cr8 sc:bw, without blizzard, theres no kespa. without kespa, there will be still starcraft. its stupid for kespa to collect money for broadcasting right, and ppl start to flame blizzard for collecting broadcasting right? kespa was the one collecting broadcasting right for years, without consent from blizzard.
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post Nov 24 2010, 06:37 PM

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QUOTE(quest_5692 @ Nov 24 2010, 06:35 PM)
sc2 will be bigger but anti piracy will make it not that popular in third world countries like malaysia. but still, with strict anti-piracy and un friendly surface, they manage to sell like hotcakes. most of us here bought the ori game too =)

nice that dotards are not in the community to pollute pirate-mindset. *someone said, it will be stupid to pay rm220 if you can get the same thing for rm5* no its not stupid.

and to kespa, gtfo, kespa did not cr8 sc:bw, without blizzard, theres no kespa. without kespa, there will be still starcraft. its stupid for kespa to collect money for broadcasting right, and ppl start to flame blizzard for collecting broadcasting right? kespa was the one collecting broadcasting right for years, without consent from blizzard.
*
mod baru advised, so ya lol.
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post Nov 24 2010, 09:48 PM

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i have to agree with jackalvis and ericpires. For many of you, dont try act smart like u noe scbw scene, did u really played scbw before? competitively? ICCUP? Followed the scene for at least a few years?

In SCBW scenese u get girls melting for nuke, scream in tanks under storms, and get shuttle scream by jaedongs hydra, untill now ive seen no SCREAMING cuz sc2 is just bad as spectator sports to scbw..... Theres nothing 'exciting' to be screaming at in sc2. SC2 is just 'good' not excellent. Compare to other RTS sure sc2 is best , but is a shame to SCBW. No offense but this true.

Do you know how hard is it to play BW? DO you know why koreans like SCBW so much? I recently played sc2, and i was dissapointed by the mechanics, it seems to be way EASIER then scbw...... 1 hotkey all buildings? what a joke...... auto mine? another joke, and most all even if u micro like gosu with 200+apm in sc2 ull get crushed easily by a noobish 90 apm... biggest joke ever. APM is noob in sc2!

In SCBW u cant Group all building and units, its not ENOUGH , tats why in high lvl play u need HIGH APM. U dont even need separate MnM in sc2, lol group all can stim with medics, wow so easy.

Blizzard has offered sc2 players an easy opportunity to play, thats why all casual dudes are rushing in since is NEW, sc2 wont last long, now is all about MONEY and 'NEW' . I predict itll be unpopular / wade off off in 3 years if it continues like this, koreans are already dominating scene and most of em are scbw transitions ( I had already EXPECTED after sc2 beta release) SC2 will be again in Korea just like scbw.....

Lets see how accurate and how far my prediction go. My prediction has been 99% precise untill now (didnt expect it to be this bad). And for people who just got introduce to Flash and Jaedong. Better not hope for them to transition into SC2, itll be nightmare, all HOPES will be gone. All foreign pros and casual players will run out(gave up). This game is too easy for them (itll be jaedong vs flash in gsl finals everytime!!!) LOL!!

AND OMG PLEASE DONT TALK DOTA TO SC2..... SUCH NOOB GAME! DONT COMPARE TO RTS! U ONLY CONTROL 1 GOD DAMN UNIT, SO EASY COMPARE TO SCBW, TOO EASY

I JUST HATE HOW IGNORANT SOME DUDES ARE INSULTING SCBW, SO IM JUST TRYING TO CLEAR THEIR IGNORANCE HERE. ILL STOP HERE.
THANK YOU.

This post has been edited by holyvin: Nov 24 2010, 10:11 PM
kEazYc
post Nov 24 2010, 09:55 PM

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Damn, more cs1.6 vs cs source scene on the go!
evofantasy
post Nov 24 2010, 10:04 PM

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QUOTE(kEazYc @ Nov 24 2010, 09:55 PM)
Damn, more cs1.6 vs cs source scene on the go!
*
the usual rant from ppl who cant move on...
trying to flex that old is gold...

they rather sc2 to be only for the elite and us common player to get trashed over n over again till we play the game for 2 months and move on to other games thus the rm220 is costly...
just because sc2 is easier to macro than scbw, it gonna fail...
it gonna sucks...
all tournament will fail...
no1 gonna watch it...
the spectator mode for the game is useless...
esport is only for the selected few...
scbw was awesome from day1 (before all the balances) and sc2 still suck even with the amount of patches and unbalanced...

this can go on and on...
for those prefering scbw, no1 forcing u to get sc2...
enjoy ur game and not criticize sc2 as one man's meat is another man's poison...


Added on November 24, 2010, 10:06 pmps:
only those who are in ICCUP C and above can comment LOL...
so i think its time to change this subforum from starcraft to starcraft 1/ bw (elite only) subforum...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Nov 24 2010, 10:06 PM
radkliler
post Nov 24 2010, 10:07 PM

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Its safe to say that you people will b**** about anything and everything.

God help us all if we couldn't even f***ing play a god damned game in peace.
evofantasy
post Nov 24 2010, 10:15 PM

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QUOTE(radkliler @ Nov 24 2010, 10:07 PM)
Its safe to say that you people will b**** about anything and everything.

God help us all if we couldn't even f***ing play a god damned game in peace.
*
haters gonna hate...
and i thought that it should have died down months after the game is out LOL
kEazYc
post Nov 24 2010, 10:17 PM

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We should be proud that we don't have much players in the starcraft community compared to dota, u know when the time v6 just came out, everyone are bashing it :S
quest_5692
post Nov 24 2010, 10:26 PM

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for the BW loyal fan, yes its true that sc2 to BW is like tic tac toe to chess but blizzard made this so that foreign scene can catch up with koreans, like now, foreigners can actually play till ro16 in gsl. so more fans, see huskystarcraft, very newb friendly channel, see his fame, top 100 youtuber, ask BW do this on world stage, no, BW cant. BW is in korea only. hence, blizzard earns more from other country. if BW can sell 10 mil copies, 5 mil in korea; SC2 can sell 15 mil, 5 mil in korea. its more noob friendly so other countries can join in the hype too. and lower players can enjoy the game too.

who butthurt? super pros who dunwan to play with newcomers.

who likey? all others under the peak of the pyramid + blizzard who earns loads. winrar.
smartleader
post Nov 24 2010, 10:39 PM

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Butthurt? Aw. To be truth, Sc2 is more like a RTS than SC:BW, there is counter for every counter, its like Marauder counter armored units while Hellion do great damage against light units. Not like SC:BW, get tanks and you pawned all the land units.
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post Nov 24 2010, 11:07 PM

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QUOTE(smartleader @ Nov 24 2010, 10:39 PM)
Butthurt? Aw. To be truth, Sc2 is more like a RTS than SC:BW, there is counter for every counter, its like Marauder counter armored units while Hellion do great damage against light units. Not like SC:BW, get tanks and you pawned all the land units.
*
FYI TANKS Can Die to so many units on the ground and it can be from the lowest level of the units from zealot to lurkers . Tanks is a freaking bad example to call it a freaking great counter . Yeah sc2 is a true rts in terms of making it more simpler for people to play it that's good by all means .
temptation1314
post Nov 25 2010, 12:15 AM

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QUOTE(holyvin @ Nov 24 2010, 09:48 PM)
i have to agree with jackalvis and ericpires. For many of you, dont try act smart like u noe scbw scene, did u really played scbw before? competitively? ICCUP? Followed the scene for at least a few years?

In SCBW scenese u get girls melting for nuke, scream in tanks under storms, and get shuttle scream by jaedongs hydra, untill now ive seen no SCREAMING cuz sc2 is just bad as spectator sports to scbw..... Theres nothing 'exciting' to be screaming at in sc2. SC2 is just 'good' not excellent. Compare to other RTS sure sc2 is best , but is a shame to SCBW. No offense but this true.

Do you know how hard is it to play BW? DO you know why koreans like SCBW so much? I recently played sc2, and i was dissapointed by the mechanics, it seems to be way EASIER then scbw...... 1 hotkey all buildings? what a joke...... auto mine? another joke, and most all even if u micro like gosu with 200+apm in sc2 ull get crushed easily by a noobish 90 apm... biggest joke ever. APM is noob in sc2!

In SCBW u cant Group all building and units, its not ENOUGH , tats why in high lvl play u need HIGH APM. U dont even need separate MnM in sc2, lol group all can stim with medics, wow so easy.

Blizzard has offered sc2 players an easy opportunity to play, thats why all casual dudes are rushing in since is NEW, sc2 wont last long, now is all about MONEY and 'NEW' . I predict itll be unpopular / wade off off in 3 years if it continues like this, koreans are already dominating scene and most of em are scbw transitions ( I had already EXPECTED after sc2 beta release) SC2 will be again in Korea just like scbw.....

Lets see how accurate and how far my prediction go. My prediction has been 99% precise untill now (didnt expect it to be this bad). And for people who just got introduce to Flash and Jaedong. Better not hope for them to transition into SC2, itll be nightmare, all HOPES will be gone. All foreign pros and casual players will run out(gave up). This game is too easy for them (itll be jaedong vs flash in gsl finals everytime!!!) LOL!!

AND OMG PLEASE DONT TALK DOTA TO SC2..... SUCH NOOB GAME! DONT COMPARE TO RTS! U ONLY CONTROL 1 GOD DAMN UNIT, SO EASY COMPARE TO SCBW, TOO EASY

I JUST HATE HOW IGNORANT SOME DUDES ARE INSULTING SCBW, SO IM JUST TRYING TO CLEAR THEIR IGNORANCE HERE. ILL STOP HERE.
THANK YOU.
*
How deep down the toilet bowl you can get?
Control more units = more Pro?
Doesn't mean that controlling one Hero or one Character is a noob players.
So those CS players are noob? Every FPS game that you play are noob? RPG games are noob? So if I play Neverwinter Nights, I'm pro, you play Diablo, you're noob.

Each game to their own ok, and it does't mean you can insult other games here.
quest_5692
post Nov 25 2010, 12:44 AM

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srsly Dota is not on a lvl to be discussed as a standalone game till Dota 2 is out (now Hon and LoL can, but they are not carrying the name of DotA)...its just a custom game from a rts game....
Timber2k7
post Nov 25 2010, 09:50 AM

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poker is a noob game cuz its a custom game from a deck of card D=
jeffvip
post Nov 25 2010, 10:53 AM

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QUOTE(Timber2k7 @ Nov 25 2010, 09:50 AM)
poker is a noob game cuz its a custom game from a deck of card D=
*
Good example... LOL

So let's get back to SC...



This post has been edited by jeffvip: Nov 25 2010, 10:55 AM
mic1981
post Nov 25 2010, 12:35 PM

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QUOTE(Timber2k7 @ Nov 25 2010, 09:50 AM)
poker is a noob game cuz its a custom game from a deck of card D=
*
Dota is a good game but not great. The game balancing is count on icefrog only, and too much patches and new heroes release every few month make it hard to stable and China's players is killing the game, damm bored to watch their replay. whistling.gif

Don't like to watch sc1 and wc3 left a few pro players to winning all competition.

Sc2 save my world notworthy.gif !


Added on November 25, 2010, 12:49 pmis not fair to compare Sc2 with SCBW. SCBW take years to stable the game. Sc2 still have 2 expansion & countless of patches to go. Could you remember any good replay at the 1st year of sc1 released? (or Any good player? Grrr?) Can you remember the 1st MSL Champion? (I heard the competition was held at a Cybercafe).

Yes, SC2 don't have Jaedong kind of player yet. Every Legend take time to accomplish, so PLEASE GIVE SC2 & Blizzard Some TIME!!!

This post has been edited by mic1981: Nov 25 2010, 12:49 PM
chiangjh
post Nov 25 2010, 01:29 PM

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for me, i will try out SC2 on pirated version 1st.. after the testing, i made my decision..

BUY ORI !~!~!~!
Quazacolt
post Nov 25 2010, 01:46 PM

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QUOTE(mic1981 @ Nov 25 2010, 12:35 PM)
Dota is a good game but not great. The game balancing is count on icefrog only, and too much patches and new heroes release every few month make it hard to stable and China's players is killing the game, damm bored to watch their replay.  whistling.gif

Don't like to watch sc1 and wc3 left a few pro players to winning all competition.

Sc2 save my world notworthy.gif !


Added on November 25, 2010, 12:49 pmis not fair to compare Sc2 with SCBW. SCBW take years to stable the game. Sc2 still have 2 expansion & countless of patches to go. Could you remember any good replay at the 1st year of sc1 released? (or Any good player? Grrr?) Can you remember the 1st MSL Champion? (I heard the competition was held at a Cybercafe).

Yes, SC2 don't have Jaedong kind of player yet. Every Legend take time to accomplish, so PLEASE GIVE SC2 & Blizzard Some TIME!!!
*
sc1 took 12 years to be what it is today. they expect sc2 to achieve the same, if not more within 12 days i suppose.
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post Nov 25 2010, 02:34 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Nov 25 2010, 01:46 PM)
sc1 took 12 years to be what it is today. they expect sc2 to achieve the same, if not more within 12 days i suppose.
*
12 hours lol. tongue.gif
mic1981
post Nov 25 2010, 02:56 PM

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QUOTE(temptation1314 @ Nov 25 2010, 02:34 PM)
12 hours lol. tongue.gif
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I thought should be during the beta time icon_rolleyes.gif
evofantasy
post Nov 25 2010, 02:57 PM

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QUOTE(mic1981 @ Nov 25 2010, 02:56 PM)
I thought should be during the beta time  icon_rolleyes.gif
*
the beta QQ was nt much at all...
in fact lots of ppl are happy wit the beta (balance and all)...
surprising when the game is release all the hate pop up LOL
mic1981
post Nov 25 2010, 03:17 PM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Nov 25 2010, 02:57 PM)
the beta QQ was nt much at all...
in fact lots of ppl are happy wit the beta (balance and all)...
surprising when the game is release all the hate pop up LOL
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because they sold 1 mil copy in the 1st day.

Small community suddenly >10x .... then the small balancing issue will become a big problem and the data become more inaccurate.

As Blizzard blogs, they can't have 10 patch in 1 week whereby can do it in BETA; and the Strategy changing just too fast, who can thought that have 1 fellow play pure marine versus all zerg units. rclxub.gif


don^don
post Nov 25 2010, 04:08 PM

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QUOTE(carloz28 @ Nov 24 2010, 11:26 AM)
EULA? There are tons of video games tourney held each year without getting blackmailed for COPYRIGHT Infringement bullshyte from developers. CAPCOM's Street Fighter 4 tourneys were held in various countries, where their tourney videos were broadcast by SRK, Gootecks and Tougeki + thousands bloggers worldwide. Well correct me if I'm but I didn't recall CAPCOM asking them to pay any ransom for broadcasting rights? Same can be said for Tekken, FIFA and Counter Strike.

Yes, Blizzard are "legally" right to do so but ultimately it is greed that drives the action. Blizzard saw the scale of SC hype in Korea and immediately wanted to tap in the financial part of it.

Segmented games who cares? Mind you, i for one give a shyte about this move. Not to mention there were millions of gamers fuming about this typical Wall Street capitalism move.

People said if you hate it, don't buy it. Simple as that. Im glad i didnt. Saved me 200 bucks and hundreds of hours of life that I will never get back.
Fans of SC2 of course don't mind getting ripped by Blizzard as long as they enjoy the game.
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first of all, i'm so sad for you to not able to afford an original SC2, u sure missed out one of the best RTS game in history. too bad you cant tell others "yeah i played sc2 and its awesome!". too bad. probably you're very poor and cant save rm1 per day. nevermind on that.

now the real thing i wan to say is, probably you're not very good in reading english. you see, Kespa broadcast sc:bw matches, and have the two others pay Kespa to broadcast matches of Kespa's leagues and contracted players. obviously it'll be 'an ok' for Blizzard if Kespa didn't ask for money from the two cable tv companies in the first place. that's why you said that blizzard wanted to milk sc2 out of korea is very very wrong. why? gomtv paid a buck to blizzard for broadcasting matches. how can you milk a buck? even if they pay a buck for every single match, blizzard ain going to earn alot compared to the money they earn from selling sc2:part1 worldwide.

if Kespa had stopped asking money from the cable tv companies when blizzard asked them to stop, at the first place. things would have been solved already.

and regarding the LAN issue of games, i guess we cant blame blizzard on this. every game developers are doing this to make pirating games pointless. yes it sux but well if you buy original then you wont be complaining in the first place. it's the same thing wad. tongue.gif

so far i'm loving the sc2 community, boxer is here, fruitdealer is here, tlo is always entertaining to watch as ever. hope can see more legends and creative players come over to sc2.
Quazacolt
post Nov 25 2010, 06:46 PM

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» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


tester faild to qualify, i am disappoint.
evofantasy
post Nov 25 2010, 07:37 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Nov 25 2010, 06:46 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


tester faild to qualify, i am disappoint.
*
he was 3rd in GOM Allstar...
iRhappy for him...
Quazacolt
post Nov 25 2010, 07:50 PM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Nov 25 2010, 07:37 PM)
he was 3rd in GOM Allstar...
iRhappy for him...
*
what really? VOD still need to pay or what? lol. i didnt tengok that assuming he faild agen or something lol
evofantasy
post Nov 25 2010, 07:51 PM

Avadion of the Enders
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Nov 25 2010, 07:50 PM)
what really? VOD still need to pay or what? lol. i didnt tengok that assuming he faild agen or something lol
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sc2rep.com
u can see the gomtv allstar thread http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1641832
watch his FF roflstomp nada <3
Quazacolt
post Nov 25 2010, 08:04 PM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Nov 25 2010, 07:51 PM)
sc2rep.com
u can see the gomtv allstar thread http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1641832
watch his FF roflstomp nada <3
*
ohh thanks

 

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