Hey guys, not with the offensive tone or what but I am just curious why so many of you
invest sooo much money in hi quality, expensive, low-noise in-car sound system.

Haven't it crossed in your audiophile heads that as long as you are driving on the BUSY road you can
almost and surely NEVER get to enjoy/realize the bells and whistles of your high fidelity audio system?

Whenever we are driving, we hear the car engine running, the air-cond blowing, tyres rolling on the tar,
motorcycle zooming past, and of course your creaking car frame.

With all these kinetic noises buzzing around us, who can tell the difference between an reasonable SNR entry-level head unit
from high SNR competition-level offerings from Alpine or Pioneer??

Give it a second thought. STUPID OR WHAT!?

I WANT EVERYONE TO COME AND PROVE ME WRONG!!

This post has been edited by MrPudujail: Nov 8 2010, 12:17 AM

me not so much into audio thing, my car only got a powdeerrrpuullll woofer, and those blingz lcd screen etc etc, cost me few K, but worth it....

TS just jealous of ppl having expensive system which he himself cannot afford.

+1

1

This post has been edited by Funnypants91: Nov 8 2010, 12:53 AM

And you must be saying this to save your face from the disgrace of investing thousands of ringgits you put into
your SQL system.

C'mon. Be real, guys. Admit it. The only moment you were convinced you bought alpine/pioneer instead of brand XYZ is when you
parked your car in the garage at night when the neighbourhood is sleeping.

I can assure there is no time in ur hectic life u actually go anal about ur sound systems unless if brand XYZ is so poor that the CD skips.
Better save all that money for real hi-fi audio at home in ur bedroom.

i have no high end ICE...used to put have 6 speaker only front and rear...

on basshunter song, cant hear outside world already...enjoyed it at traffic light...and also when slow moving traffic...even keep me awake driving at nite...

cant see any waste there...

cant imagine either if i invest a few more K to upgrade....must be very good...

TS...it's like choosing ur life partner...what's best for u sometime is never best for others....what's best for others is sometime never best for u..

having high loaded ICE might not give u a kick...but it doped some people out there

Hei, that's the same thing I ask about playing Golf too... Guess what is the answer I get~

This.

I'd rather spend it on performance part. Good quality speakers are more than enough for me.

why not? i listen to my audio, and i dont listen to the noise from outside. problem? wwwww
and no, i dont really hear car engine/air con/tyre rollin/motorcycle zooming past (unless its those faggots that modded their exhaust to sound like a freakshow) etc

btw, alpine/pioneer are only good on the HU (unless ur buying high end alpine/pioneer speakers/woofers, and then again, there are better choices elsewhere)

done, proven you wrong. /thread

they trust their ears for better audio, i got no comments but i'd stick to stock coz i can't afford better stuff while i can't enjoy it to fullest.

Just curious..What answer you've got??



That's only true when u spin the vol knobs to eleven, or you're suffering from mild hearing loss.
Fidelity is when the system has low THD and high SNR.
Sound good or not in ur car, that depends on the equlizer.

So if I get a moderately good entry-level system and a moderately good 7-band equalizer, then I get a Great sounding system (with everything else being good). True?

to each his own............

I guess it is just one man's passion. I mean if you look at all the big boy's toys, most of them doesn't really make sense but they cost a huge bomb.

e.g. Its like buying a Ferrari and all you do is drive it around 100km a month with it. A kancil will bring you from point A to B but arguments is that its not the destination that is important but the journey.

The same goes for those who feel that investing in hi-fidelity systems are worth it, it doesn't matter if you hear that extra cymbal from the percussionist, its the entire experience that they want.

Everyone is made differently, each have our own likes and dislikes. And most of the time, most of our likes and wants, may not even make sense.

Ayo kawan, apa bising2 .. you got money to spend it on, go ahead, don't kacau2 if someone here want to spend money on you call stupid thing. If they think they want to have their top-notch audio system in their car, be it. If you don't agree, up to you really .. no one should feed this troll .. Opss.. let me hiding first before you fire your words toward me!

well, im not into ICE as well though i enjoy music. I have a nice soudn system at home where i can just lie down on my sofa and enjoy some nice classical music.

No. You get moderately good sounding system.

passion for high equipment....just like me......crazy over hi fi in my house....but not in car bcoz so many unwanted noise kacau....high SNR almost no different from low SNR sound......but very big different in price......better spend for home hi fi....better soundstage, acoustic, depth & warmth.....

Aiya, still need me to say it out meh~~

This is what I learnt so far, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

... /Thread.

This is where more money goes to soundproofing bro.

The problem not only noisy from outside. Unless u stop the car & hear the music. When the car move whole car got vibration. Soundproof only reduce some of it like door panel, bonnet, floor vibration. How about dashboard? side glass screen, & other internal part that vibrate? All car have different air volume inside car & also acoustic properties & sound reflection from roof, windscreen, floor etc.... so the echo will degrade the quality of the sound. unless use sound dampening just like in studio...thx certified car audio? professional car audio installer? magnetic interference from the engine itself also ruin high SNR performance & quality.....i got fren spend 23K for car audio then say my cheapo home hi fi cost 12K sound better than his ICE....passion & practicality is different......same like Buggati Veyron on Malaysia road....

lol,i think is about fulfilling personal ego?of showing off?XD
but most of the time,i m driving,i used to travel long distance from penang to kl,kl to penang,penang to perlis,during the drive,music is the thing that accompany me...ICE,means in car entertainment,doesn't means u need spend 100K oni consider as ICE,u can use few hundred also,sometimes,lousy brand don't mean it produce lousy quality,depends on urself lar this one,cuz every1 have the different definition...

as i can say as well,y u guys spend so much money on home Hi-Fi?!go home den sleep only la...is just same,but just from different point of view...about those noise like tyre noise,wat other sound u heard in the car,u can do soundproof on tat,and i tried on my friends car,a kelisa,it is so nice in his car,just like in cinema when i listen to the avatar soundtrack.

so,TS,u can have that mindset,maybe we cant convince/force u to change ur mind,cuz u think it is not worth,but is different for everyone.for me,i do think is worth...

no, i dont suffer from hearing loss, and no, its not just on the equalizer.

depend on type of music also......rock? acoustic? orchestra?.....if rock then u no need any sound insulation.....but if acoustic u really need proper place for the feels, sound & imagination.....so many thing to consider.....as long as u can enjoy, no ice oso can make u high

Hm, I see the point of buying a ferrari car but not buying the ferrari of ICE.
The better analogy of buying super high-end head unit in a noise-polluted environment is alike to looking for a more healthy brand of cigarette to satisfy ur habits - you want to smoke, but you want to smoke healthily. WTF is this??



Im not angry or what...just want to provoke some thoughtful debate here.
Coz i see alot of fanboys/dealers out there chanting to buy pioneer/alpine systems or buy NOthing at all.
Im not a salesperson but a casual observer.



Nope...the results are better than having top of the range HU becoz the built in EQ is usu crap. I have an external el cheapo eq that extends the highs highs much cleaner and clearer than my more expensive sony HU



I see someone with the same thinking
My point here really is dun fall into the traps of marketing hypes who relentlessly
promote the term "audiophile" in car audio.
"Audiophile" and highways dun mix.
Get real. On the road, we are more concerned about the BEAT/MUSIC than how good it sounds.
Quality is also important but I dun need 24-bit sound.


You are right about the big leap in expensive systems.
For example, I have a cheap basic sony hu + two ciplak handmade subs + low 200W amp + a pair of JBLs coax + a pair of cheap coax + unbranded equalizer = RM800.

My friend whereas changed from stock to the latest sony xplod head unit only with usb feature, loudness enhancement plus other features = RM500 (already best price).

The sound that came from my car is godly dynamic (yes, better than those setup in the HU demo shop) and clearly better sounding. And the joke is im not even using the typical holygrail brands Alpine/Pioneer. Not free from electrical noise though. But when I got to highway the white noise AUTOMATICALLY disappears coz im driving.

See?

This post has been edited by MrPudujail: Nov 8 2010, 04:35 PM

because you are driving a cheap car..

and those car with high bhp combine with chip swap summore. what for if you're gonna end up in KL's traffic and stop light?!

tell me why? tell me why before i waste RM500 for a chip swap next week!

Bro, why you keep on mentioning about Alpine/Pioneer/Sony? They offended you in someway?

must be. lol sony xplod.

I used to spend around 25K in my 6 year journey of ICE. And my conclusion after 6 years is => I feel DUMB because all the audio shop will keep psycho u to upgrade to next level.

Area of spending in 6 years:
1. HU = 2 times upgrade (stock->Eclipse->Mcintosh)
2. Amp = 3 times upgrade (1 4 channel PHD-> 2 Genesis Amp-> 2 TruTech Amp) Most dumb decision i made.
3. Cable = no upgrade (all the way use Van Del Hul)
4. Speakers = 2 times upgrade (stock->Focal->Scanspeak)
5. Woofer = no upgade ( all the way use Polk Audio)
6. Soundproof = step by step installation in 6 years
7. CDs = All those audiophile Master Audio CD

At the end of the day, i stop playing ICE after i sit in my friend Lexus that have superior SQ and soundproof.

Lesson to learn, there won't be perfect SQ in reality. All is marketing strategy from audio shop. If you hunting for almost perfect SQ, maybe you should buy a Bentley or Rolls Royce & enjoy the sound proof.

This post has been edited by khchong81: Nov 8 2010, 06:28 PM

You are not wrong bro.. it depends on people too..

like me i spend most of my time in my car rather than i masturbate on my bed so i prefer to install thousands of ringgit for ice.
on average weekly 5 hours of my time stuck in a traffic jam, im a wise man.. i do install high end ice rather than buying or install high end home system since i go back home just for sleep.

Its not stupid actually bro... its a satisfaction you can't found it in your self but others does.
There's nothing to prove you are right or wrong unless you are on political position want to 'pancing' your position !

wrong lesson learned then. your problem would be the audio shop you went with. the audio shop i went to doesn't really psycho me to do any upgrade at all lulz

in fact some of the items i actually over budgeted myself despite the uncle advising me to go for cheaper items heh.

---

Added on November 8, 2010, 6:47 pmlulz sorta same here man. everyday at least 2-3 hours on traffic jam. multiply by 5 days a week. thats the MINIMUM time ill be spending in the car. instead of hearing those stupid honking, car engine, motorcycle etc, why not enjoy some good ICE?

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Nov 8 2010, 06:47 PM

First I wanna clarify.
I got nothing against sound quality. Nor with Alpine/Pioneer/JVC/Sony/etc. In fact Im a SQ fanatic myself.

Im a minimalist - I'll get the best SQ from the CHEAPEST component possible as long as I know how the instrument sounds like in actual life.
For example, I DON'T buy audiophile cables. I make them because I know the science behind it.
If ur paying RM2K for RCAs that u dun have oscilloscopes to verify the performance, that's daylight robbery.

I also drive, so I KNOW how important it is with music on the road.
I got problem with brands, hefty price tags, and how people are tricked into buying the idea of being a MOBILE AUDIOPHILE because of marketing claims. This is utter nonsense. You are closer to being an audiophile when you are not driving. Driving defeats the purpose high quality music.

Most people dunno what they need, so they leave it to the big brands to give them the "best".

So let me tell you what you serious listeners need. When driving.

When you're listening with engine revs around you, your system should:
1) Have great freq response - make sure u hear the extreme highs and lows.
2) Have proper equalization - because of internal sound reflection, standing waves, harmonic distortion and etc exists.
3) Good grounding for your amps and headunits - lack of it will cause music distortion at hi volumes
4) Proper cutoff for subwoofers - wrong cutoff can cause sound to be "muddy"
5) For plasticky interior, reduce 1KHz a little
6) Direct 12V drawn from battery
7) adequate sound proofing
8) thick, good cables
9) a decent HU
10) USB connectivity
11) capacitors

Of coz, most expensive/branded HUs give you better sound, but with the high price you could do even more with a so-so HU PLUS other upgrades.
So dun just pay attention on the brand or figures. DEFINE what you want to hear.

And don't strive for what you don't need in an ICE system. Like 130dB SNR, 24-bit processing, built-in EQ, O2-free cables, loudness booster, and additional tweeters. For so-called "high-end" features, u will be paying thru your nose.





I feel sorry for you bro. But need not be sad because its a Lexus....and this car is well-known for its quietness.
My theory is get the cleanest sound possible, use moderate amplification, use equalizer, and make sure the whole freq spectrum exist in ur music.
I dun really care about brands if u ask me as long as I can hear all the way to 20kHz like what should be in a live music.

Say you've given up but....


UR STILL VISITING THIS FORUM!?

i'm not into ICE as the stock HU is already superb to my ear.

i've bold the part that i disagree with you. usually for ICE, they do soundproof to make their car better. who ask you install expensive ICE system on noisy car or on lorry?

first of all it's not stupid. it's one's passion and hobby. i'm sure u seen ppl buying nice and exp cars while staying in a small house, girls buying nice dresses which some they won't even touch it at the end, ppl spending thousands on fish, guys spending lotsa money on a pair of cufflinks or watches and etc. everyone has their own hobby/interest, no point criticizing on dat, it's their money and it's up to them to spend however they think worthwhile.

back to ICE, everyone's ear are made differently, some demand nice music wherever they go. some as long got music can d and some no music oso nvm. there's nothing to shout abt. if u dun really enjoy listening to ur ice while driving, then it's ur problem, some ppl spend a long time in the car, and they need better entertainment than juz stock audio system, and hi end ICE comes to their mind.

wonder why ppl buy nice cars? cos it's built differently than entry lvl cars. the problems that u mentioned, those 'noises' are minimal in gud cars. and most importantly it feels gud to drive and u won't mind spending few more moments with ur car, moreover if the car is well equipped wit some nice system. to some ppl, cars are more than a tool to get them from point A to point B.

if u get wat i'm saying, then u won't have 2nd thought about why ppl spending so much on ICE. cheers

Haha...bro, i still got my passion in good audiophile but now i prefer to invest in home entertainment. But too bad currently i stay in condo, can't play my music too loud. Maybe wait till i move into bungalow then can enjoy concert peacefully...

make me think of the coffin with air conditional build in.

young play on car
mid age play on house
old prepare for coffin or maybe personal graveyard if rich

ps: if ts know the science of the cable he made, he might be earning big money if it's good. why not sell his cable to those big company and make himself rich or maybe richer so he wont criticize other's interest?

to you and the people who harp about how you can listen at home with MUCH CHEAPER hi-fi or whatever sound system. i ask you this: can you play those sound system/hi-fi IN YOUR CAR?
what? too big? not practical? no power outlet? there you go. We want music IN OUR CAR. Period. ICE is just that. end of story.

and to your post anyways:

- driving DOES NOT defeats the purpose of quality music. driving only makes it HARDER to achieve quality music. be it the equipment you have to install/buy, the tuning you have to do, or the price that comes to it all.
- while i can stop reading anything beyond " listening with engine revs around you", but ill go through your points anyways 1 by 1 just because im bored. as for that, tell that to people who does PROPER sound dampening/proofing to their car.


so, you know what is needed to have a good ICE setup, however to do all of the above, at least 2-5k would be needed for a complete setup. and that is not spending already which completely defies what you were trying to say in your first post?

Also, to "many audiophiles", USB connectivity is definitely not a must, and even to a point that its better off not added. while i myself personally, am a supporter and i prefer USB connectivity for my own reasons, general audiophiles would rate compressed MP3's of low quality, and you're not truly an audiophile if you listen to MP3 over Raw CDs or at the least, FLACs.

and as i've mentioned out, i've defined what i want to hear in my setup, and the initial recommendations (woofer and HU mainly) didn't quite work out at the shop, and i actually went for something that are more expensive instead at my own choice. it exceeded my budget, sure. but was i satisfied? hell yes. would i prefer anything else given the choice? not really. though i may like to try out other brands of the same price/level.

I didn't ask the ICE to be thrown outta window
We need ICE to complete our boys toys but we do not need the extras.
But for all these setup, believe me when i say it need not be more than RM2K if ur wise. Let's see...


SOME REAL EXAMPLES:

1) In Pioneer HU, there is NO built-in low pass filter in the <RM550 models.
However, there is readily available built-in LPF in Sony entry models. Im talking abt <RM300 here.
With the remaining RM200 you can purchase a cheap amp / so-so subwoofer / throw in a Made-In-China 7-band equalizer.

2) Likewise, Alpine offer SW waveform shaping EQ at higher price than Clarion. Couple Clarion with a cheap ported subwoofer enclosure, one may get even better bass from this combination than just getting an Alpine HU.

3) Most people would pay >RM180 for a basic Pivot Voltage Stabilizer of 10,000uF. But little did they know they can buy a few brand X voltage stabilizers of say, RM50 each with 4800uF and put them all over in a few places...which is more effective in filtering out unwanted noises.

4) 200-300W of speaker rating is more than sufficient for great audio performance, yet there are people who pay additional for 500W speakers only to be powered by a 200W amp or worse, a 50W headunit. These are ppl who believed that greater in numbers means better sounding.

5) Some might pay extra dollars to get gold-plated terminals and audio interconnects. The truth is, you only need to apply a bottle of RM5 metal polish only ONCE on all non gold-plated terminals to obtain clean, oxide-free contacts.

6) There are people placing numerous tweeters inside the car believing could improve sharpness of the music. My frens, high frequency sounds are uni-directional. Yes, they can't propagate far and gets blocked easily. So one for your left-ear and one for your right-ear.

7) Ppl are overpaying for an expensive branded 12" sub with big magnet. In actual fact, one can get two ciplak 10" subs with medium-sized magnets at nearly fraction of the price and still get better results. Coz 2x10 literally translates into 20"....



About sound proofing....
Yes, it works but to certain extent. Actually, proper car chasis sound-proofing requires more than sticking foams on door panels. Hey, those guys at the workshop need to make a living rite?


About those audio formats...
Yeah, better audio formats like .wma, .ogg and .wav are desirable, but not always available. USB reduces the over-reliance on CD player, which is liable to mechanical failure and noise. That said, with all the investments, our systems should sound adequately good regardless on music formats.


About you being happy with current system....
Not likely you would be happy now if you knew you could get something that sounds like what it is now at HALF the price.

if u want watching EPL or bola..should be wanna good TV or nice tv to watch...same as ICE..that also consider as entertainment when u drive car...i have basic ICE...always be there when stuck in trafic....sometimes nice or basic ICE a very gud fren when stuck in trafic...

ps/: maybe u not listened to radio so much...or maybe u watch movie using china nokla phone...HAHAHAH..just joking...

1) sony entry models have no USB input. those that have are at least in the 400's. and if i am going to pay that much, i am better off with pioneer/alpine entry level models which offers much better sound processing. of course. specs written on paper doesnt tell much, however, since when you listen to music with your eyes? and as far as i can tell, demo units from shops who offer sony HUs, definitely dont amuse me. while pioneers/alpine HUs are noticeably better. more so when you're using USB playback with modern music which are generally digital instead of being analog, or as some oldies/retros folks would like to criticize: noise lol

and as for the rm200 purchasing cheap amp/so so sub woofer? lets just say, experiencing a RM500-600++ Boston woofer, against a no brand/china ciplak woofer, is like heaven and hell. the accuracy and the tightness of the bass/SPL produced is absolutely incomparable. ciplak amp? lets just say they just tend to shut themselves down/thermal prevention way too much for my liking. lets not even go to sound quality when those amp decide to not work because they simply cannot keep up on the power rating my component/woofer requires.

2) sure, clarion may be a decent brand just like sony is, however, as with my above point, the money saved from the HU simply does not allow me to buy a decent woofer. which makes your point entirely void.

3) just so you know, with proper grounding (which decent grounding cables doesnt cost too much) you can filter out noise caused by power irregularities. what for go for voltage stabilizers? that is an entirely different purpose/need altogether

4) like i said in point 1, ratings mentioned by speakers, especially from brands (hello china?) that are not reputable, tend to uprate/upmark the rating that their products can perform while the fact is they cannot. and if you're pointing out something like having a 500 rating speaker but using a 200w rating amp, that is entirely the user's/client/shop (well, whoever that decided that anyways) fault entirely and have nothing to do with how one spend on their ICE. remember, you're pointing out how someone can be wasting their money on ICE, while majority of ICErs here do not. hell, if they are gonna do retarded things anyways, why bother posting/asking for advice here? right?

5) i can relate this case with those ultra expensive rm200-300 MONSTER HDMI cables vs the ciplak rm50 HDMI cables. refer to my above points. if you're gonna get chopped for insanely priced cables, thats your problem. nothing to do with ICE.

6) a basic/decent speaker set involves a pair of tweeter + mids and a woofer. why do something retarded such as placing multiple tweeters? hell, even a 3way setup dont tell you to do that. and most shops that arent hell bent on squeezing every penny outta you definitely dont even mention this sort of ridiculous setup.

7) you may refer to my previous points, and/or the other NUMEROUS threads posted here on the difference/pros and cons of single sub of say, 500 rating vs 2x subs for 250w rating each with both same/similiar price. as for me, ciplak subs simply does not offer me the clarity i demand. so that is entirely out of the question.

sound proofing/dampening is very simply actually: you work to eliminate/reduce extra noise/sound that interfere with your ICE. clearly, if your engine is too noisy, simply placing dampening mats etc on door panels may not help, or even do nothing at all. sometimes, you are probably better off doing your regular car maintenance like an oil change, or the most common thing people tend to forget: replacing your engine mounting brackets. i know i did that and the engine is purring like a kitten now instead of being as noisy as a wild boar.

if you're mentioning wma/ogg/wav as "better" (well, wav may be better, but it sure as hell aint effecient) audio formats, i doubt you know much about your audio. besides, majority of car HU does not even support those format. (ogg in particular)

nope, that aint happening because after a ton of research, i know i cannot get what i am getting now with half the price. thats just the way it is. you pay for what you get, plain and simple.

seeing your statement, i dun think you are an audiophile at any stage of your love for music. you are more of a "hardware performance" person. Comparing between this and that performance : price ratio.

Why am i dare making this bold statement?

well... a lot of ICErs knows that the creaking sound, motorcycle buzzing around etc etc noise on our day to day drive, what makes us still spend so much is because despite all these inevitable disturbances, hi-quality music still remains our priority in this hobby, not do we hear the difference in SNR when that happens. because whenever my left foot taps according to the beat when i am driving, thats a good ICE setup, no matter its the stock standard or high end gears. take this as an example all your comparisons.

Well to determine stupid or what, hmm, thats like telling me buying a D3X(SLR) for what, a 3mp digicam does the same thing as well... sounds stupid to the 3mp digicam owner but not to the D3X owner.

The same question I ask my uncle, why does he spend so much money on toy trains?

It makes him happy.

This is getting GOOD!

---

Added on November 10, 2010, 1:13 amOf course, that's my whole point.
Why do I need to be an audiophile in a car?
I got my hifi system sitting at home dying for my love and care.
I just need a dynamic sound system in my car.

U need a better example to make an analogy. Urs is like comparing CD with its mp3 counterpart - they don't even belong to the same class!
A better comparison would be measurable qualities eg. zuiko lens vs germany-made lens, panaroma vs fish-eye shots, ISO noise levels on different models, etc.

You don't read previous posts, do you?

I feel the love bro!

This post has been edited by MrPudujail: Nov 10 2010, 01:19 AM

i've made my statement clear, and it is you who misunderstood me. but just so you can at least realize what went horribly wrong right there:

cheap equalizer is a completely terrible terrible way to achieve sound quality. every song is different and will require different equalizer settings. if you're on a PC you can assign specific equalizer settings to specific songs. in a car however, dont tell me you're going to adjust said settings? rofl

and TO ME, my songs vary from fast paced to slow paced, soft acoustics to hard rock/metal/bass. an equalizer will do me ZERO benefit. if i really wanted an equalizer that bad i can 1) either use the preset HU equalizers 2) get a damn active xover to ACTUALLY fine tune my sound stage/sound quality for real.

i mean, you pretty much answered your very damn question by this, why do you even bother? YOU listen to low bandwidth music. I/WE dont. Oh and believe me, cik siti toll and safari animals probably wont hear much until i lower the window to pay my toll
and you're not really helping anyone if you're gonna recommend subpar sound equipments that may not suit THEIR needs. (i think the keywords are: NOT YOURS)

ps: if i really wanted to fanboy, id be mentioning Boston acoustics instead, just so you know. hell, that actually made you looked more of a fanboy when ur harping those brand names over and over without rest.


http://www.google.com.my/#hl=en&source=hp&...256fc2321afd89b

there. but of course, if you cant even properly read my post, i doubt you'd figure out anything from the link i posted



and as i've pointed out, YOU can hear and feel the punch, the majority of us, at the very least those who are enthusiastic in ICE, DONT. and do read again on my post which clearly mentions back to point 1. but as we've probably discovered not, reading is not your best trait.
oh and do letme know when you can tell the difference between:
>how someone can be wasting their money on ICE,
and
>ICE is a waste of money

you probably should be taking your own advice and go get your 20mins, honestly speaking. as many people even myself have stressed: ICE is as expensive as one desires it to be. NOT by you, and naturally not by any of us.



nope none of us (as far as i can see/tell) is as fanatic as YOU trying to preach your ideas upon us. to say the least. and thanks captain obvious, for pointing out an obvious pointer that is completely irrelevant to the point that i made



question: HOW would you know i DIY? abruptly relating myself to you, while you're not even sure that i DIY or just send my car to the shop?



i have to wonder though, if you know the science behind all these, why arent you making a fortune outta it and instead you're here opening a thread about your concerns of how money is being spent in ICE? one would assume that if you're rich being a genius and all, these trivial financial worries are probably none of your concerns.



if you've did your research, there ARE HUs that support FLAC. there are even thread(s) in this very sub-forum discussing about it too. again, thats you (or me which i prefer USB over CDs for my own reasons) and it surely does not reflect the choices/opinions of other ICErs and/or audiophiles.



if by your definition of "rich people" for people like us that spends money on the hobby we love, then i would actually recommend you towards other poorer forums since i do humbly believe that you're the minority amongst us.

Well, what can I say from these few lines?
Yes, I enjoy being with the minority. And pardon me this is FORUM, *not* a CLUB/clan/society. There's no upper or lower class.
But there IS upper and lower class in thinking. I think for the lower class because I wanna help these folks (if they willing to believe me that is).
And I have upper class frens. I notice one thing. They don't think like you. They save everything they earn for a rainy day.
You must be from the royal family or something. That, or there's no rain in your territory.

Back to the topic, a gear boy like yourself would only take things from nice-looking packaging that bears reputable emblems. You tweak a few keys here and there and call yourself an audio hero. Must be one of those peeps who shout audio sandbox is better than changing soundcards. Dun short-change yourself.
I enjoy going against the stream because I have my facts to back me up...otherwise you can call me a cocky b@$t@rd. But i secretly like it

For those who already have expensive systems installed, so be it. This thread is intended for people who wish to upgrade but had not the money to do so. Its also for those who have seen and got ridiculed by brand X of system: However, I am here to assure you....it's sufficient. There ARE alternatives to good sound.

You DON'T have to pay soooo much for that sound of your neighbour's. A proper mix n match will do the show.
And it need not be super noise-free (or super-branded). On the road, you prolly can't tell the difference.



This post has been edited by MrPudujail: Nov 10 2010, 04:36 AM

Why not u go ask the manufacturers why they produce high end stuffs..

Simple, because there are markets for high end stuffs, and people who can afford them.
For example, camera, why some of them costs 100k+ (Yes I'm not exaggerating, go look up Hassleblad) and some of them costs less than rm500?
They do the same thing, capturing images. But the output will of course be different, some people are satisfied with the photos that are taken with the rm500 camera, and some doesn't because they wants something better, so naturally they opt for a more expensive solution that they can afford.

One more thing to bear in mind, not everyone can, or able to appreciate the output of a high end stuff.

Prolly same thing goes to ICE, tho I'm not an ICE enthusiasts. (Happy with the original Civic FD2 sound system)
I absolutely have the money or budget to throw in some decent ICE investment but I didn't, because I don't see that to be a necessity, yet.
And probably cause I don't sit in my car all days so I'd rather invest in some headphone that I can use in home etc.

Still, I don't see anyone should have a problem when they see others people spending a fortune for their hobby. As long as they are happy, why do you care?
Don't even think of asking them because, it's really simple, because they can.

Offtopic lol.

Oh and, calling people who can spend and enjoy their live stupid, doesn't sounds right. It's their financial power that allowed them to spend, so they don't need to be so cheapskate to mix and match in order to achieve the same result as a high end stuff does. I don't think anyone got the right to label them "Stupid".

This post has been edited by awyongcarl: Nov 10 2010, 04:54 AM

EQ hardware has its benefits, sure. However, you still have not addressed my problem (or anyone here, mind you) with them: you simply cannot have good EQ for every type of song you have, and you most certainly cannot adjust as you will while driving unlike home hi-fi systems. and since you're so, lets just say "lacking in knowledge" of ICE, i would suggest you to look up what is a crossover, and what is the difference between active and passive crossovers.



people who are too ignorant to even learn/absorb new and factual information are the kiddos if you ask me. i dont need to explain something thats thoroughly explained. call me a fiction writer if you will, assuming it is i who written all the links/websites/posts in the search results.

as for your "off topic" question, read:

which was to address your:




nope never said expensive "gotta be good". i dare you to even quote that to me. i am merely pointing out there is a reason things are expensive, and why people still buy them. regardless if its just "because they can" or not.



If you think some folks cannot be preached, why are you wasting your time here? hell, to further emphasize on this, look at how many posts from ICErs in this thread, that actually agree with you. lol.



and now YOU suddenly decided I dont DIY? read what you said:




simple! because if you're making a fortune right now, you wouldnt be wasting your time here preaching the unpreachable
ps: no one is being educated by you right now. at the very least not me.


thats not what you said though:




no one mentioned anything about upper class or lower class. it only became an issue when you said:


and now apparently i am from the royal family or something? hilarity. everyone have their problems, its just a matter of how one deals with it, and the same will apply on hobby and how one decides to spend on it.

i've never thought that packaging from ICE equipments are really nice-looking honestly. hell i dont even get to keep any packaging for my amp/subs installation and i sure as hell dont care. in fact, if you ask me about nice packaging, china/ciplak/imitation brands actually have nice-looking packaging than any of the expensive branded ones. oh hey, do find a quote of me calling myself an audio hero. i actually find that amusing. in case you havent noticed, your so called facts are either non-existent, or pretty much being shot down entirely.

ps: i guess red is the new IN to force your points across. wwww

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Added on November 10, 2010, 12:36 pm

chicken disappoint

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Nov 10 2010, 12:36 PM

i think TS is comparing his 1k DIY system to other 3k entry level system,

whereas most ppl in here are beginners in the 1k-3k category, striving to get sound like 10k system

while other in here have 5-10k systems trying to sound like 5-10k home systems

which they ultimately fail, and then get caught up in this hobby spending up to 50k to get the 10k home hi fi sound

its the challenging part to make the car sound like home hifi that keeps us hooked in this hobby. compared to car audio, home stereo is kacang putih..

cant stress how true is this. rofl.

+ 1

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Added on November 10, 2010, 5:21 pm+1

This post has been edited by samsoong: Nov 10 2010, 05:21 PM

some ppl spend most of their time while travelling in his car, example, a salesman, or normal executive who alws stuck in traffic jam...then they love music, wish 2 feel the high fidelity music, so they 'invest' in ICE...
another problem is, home audio need much money, a special modified room to place the system... imagine, lets say KL, many ppl who stay in condo, there is no extra place or room for him to place his system... mayb, u can place it in the living room, but how about your family member? u can listen it when they want to watch movie? or listen to it when they are sleeping (what is the volume)?
so it is all just about 'different product to meet the different demand'... because of diversity...

This post has been edited by didineo: Nov 10 2010, 06:21 PM

1. why do you need to be an audiophile in a ride? well... ask yourself... why do you need to be an Home HiFi to be an audiophile? Or why does an audiophile needs a HiFi setup in order to be an audiophile?

2. you just need dynamic sound. Good choice, i love dynamism as well but not till the point where details is second priority. details remains my first priority then dynamism... i know, you argue about how much details i have left in my ride and forth, well to fully know this, you have to take my ride for a spin to know...

3. if my comparison is off the charts... how's your comparison then? you are comparing between a serious hobbyist(high end as you understand) and a low budget hobbyist... if money is the only thing measurable to you, so as my comparison...

4. personally, i think you have to borrow my ride for 1 month to understand why people spend so much on it... i don't know the outcome of this, but normally the sound quality of a good setup is more poisonous than looking at 50k setup without auditing it...

5. nope, i dun read this thread, because at this point even we argue till cow come home, got pregnant, gave birth and go out again, there is no conclusion to this. sides has been chosen by everyone, no point questioning it...

---

Added on November 10, 2010, 11:43 pmand bro zenn... right on the spot... as always!

This post has been edited by craziechild: Nov 10 2010, 11:44 PM

Sorry abt the red so used to liking the color. What color you want? lol

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Added on November 11, 2010, 1:19 amBtw, how much you spent on your ride's ICE?

This thread isn't about comparing sound qualities and equipment if you have been reading. Those are basic stuffs.
A BETTER way to look at my point is....

Dude do you smoke? Have you ever heard of smokers complaining about bad air pollution in the area so they are going out to smoke in the park instead where the air is fresh? Much healthier huh?

And fat folks who go to gym? They do fitness centre 3 times a week YET they still eat like buffaloes?

And ICErs? Have you ever heard of people complaining about how noisy it is on the road YET they still install "unusually expensive" sounds in their cars?
To be fair, there will be a difference. But it's a marginal one. But you already spent double of that than ordinary ICE!


So it's about having some basic common sense before dumping in 50K on their car sound system.
Don't spend tooooo much money achieving to great extent what you can't possibly achieve if you didn't eliminate the causes in the first place.


This post has been edited by MrPudujail: Nov 11 2010, 01:35 AM

I spend and still maintain this amount till now, RM3k max for my ICE... some sold off and change to another stuff... that price tag has never been off...

yes i smoke, and my bunch of smokers friends well... does complain about the air pollution... but to them is they don't want to disturb the non smoker... well i think thats courtesy...

and i consider myself fat but still play squash rigorously (5 days a week) and i eat 6-7 meals a day... well, thats my eating habit... as much as i like squash, i love food as well, and to be honest, i travel oversea just to try out food whenever i could...

and i have never heard ICErs complain about the road is very noisy... most of them are drowned with the music to take notice of the road noise... even VTEC roar is not interesting to most of them...

basic common sense? there is no common sense when you indulge in anything... Home HiFi or ICE, SLR or collecting stamps... where is the common sense to all that?

and i think a lot of ICErs if started off at the right foot, would choose a good foundation before going spending so much money on it... ie, eliminate whatever that is disturbing them? while telling them not to spend so much money, well, whats the common sense again you said?

seriously how old is your ride? it sounds like it has some cronic noise everywhere...

and just a thought... if the great extend is your goal, the final result you want. what would you do? Forget about it because its too hard? or try no matter how silly it would turn out to be?


This post has been edited by craziechild: Nov 11 2010, 02:20 AM

for your analogy of fat people doing gym, just imagine they eat he same and not going gym at all... aren't going gym 3 times a week improve their condition a little... in your point of view they seems like prioritize health more since going gym three times but maybe in actual fact they love eating and know by doing a little workout can compensate for the unhealthy diet...

and for smokers, just imagine a small room with 10 smokers smoking at the same time... they definitely inhale more 2nd hand smoke than someone who smoke in an open air park...

what i am trying to say is there are people who do things to compensate the negative around them... for ICE case, they use to negate or reduced the negative feelings from noise pollution they feel on the road...

i am a person who willing to spend on ICE and thus far i did not regret spending every single cent on it... i feel less stress when stuck in a traffic with ICE installed rather than before this nothing to do during a traffic jam and get frustrated easily by it... and we do carpool to work and my colleague does notice the diff every time i make a modification or upgrade on my ICE... so he happy, i happy, everyone happy...

another thing is a more expensive ICE uses better materials than XYZ companies... thus it is more durable... i used to use cheap brands ICE and the speakers crack easily, wiring loosen and etc... it last me bout 1-2 years then can notice crack sound... its not that i blast songs like crazy but sometimes bad quality or low bitrate audios is just not good for ICE... just try playing MIDI files as often as you can and see what does it do to your speakers

look around you, see what color everyone else is using, then you tell me.



i really suggest you reading up the below articles on what equalizer do. and having that said, it does not help me at all and/or it being feasible within my system for reason i have stated numerous times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_audio



1) i have already explained enough on previous post
2) i have a voltage stabilizer installed and i sure as hell know how it works
3) i state what is relevance according to what YOU stated which i have quoted within my previous post as well.
4) you most certainly do not need to open up something to know how it works. have you dissected a human being before? no? then do you know how your organs work? there you go.



why would i wish against for something that i have never done? if anything, you most certainly are telling your old wives tales more so than i am or anyone in this thread.



1) not your forum, and most certainly not your job
2) contradiction:

&

if you really had no problem, then 1) this thread would never exist 2) you'd be letting everyone else buying whatever they regardless on whatever the cost they are spending.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/packaging
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packaging_and_labeling
sure as hell dont see "being goo-goo-ga-ga over branded gears and associating yourself with reputable names" period



my previous post was:

if i never mentioned anything about being an audio hero, how could i suddenly be a wannabe audio hero? sure aren't making any sense now are you? and hey, when all else fail, you started to get more personal in your post? ask anyone else and tell me who is the immature individual when you're calling out people's age whom you've never met. And im sure you would be making yourself look/feel better by putting down on others, since there is nothing else you're capable of doing now. hey, by all means, go ahead. if it makes you feel better. at least i HAVE something to boast about unlike a certain someone whos non-stop harping how someone should not spend for THEIR hobbies.

Clear enough u r the one started with attacks but I decidedly went personal because apparently you are not very well-informed about facts you wanna argue about. Like grounding cables and equalizers. You HAVEN'T even try them and yet you have alot to say. BASELESS CLAIMS. Get ur facts RIGHT before you bring up an argument. Im not bothered playing ur blaming game though.

My responses would have been ALOT different if you were somebody who knows what you are talking about and you have strong technical points to back that up. No, you DONT have to be a tech person. You can say something about certain qualities that you like about the system that may be more superior to my believe. If that is agreeable, I would shut my mouth. But since post one I realized the claims you made does not equal to the things you know. And I know. And that's when I decided I need to give you a piece of my mind.

I guess another minute talking to you would be pointless as you would have TONS to state from the internet which you don't even know which is true.
Again and again you don't get my meaning of starting this topic.

If you have an EXPENSIVE system by all means keep it and be satisfy with it. My target listeners would be the few/many who BELIEVE NOT in paying so much to compensate for inevitable road noises. I have great sounding ICE because of smart mix and matching of branded/non-branded components. Im not anti/pro good brands. I'm comfortably in between. I just don't buy marketing claims.

To those supporting my thinking...
Buy SMART, know what you want to hear, do extensive research and get the best deals out of it. Customization. Don't try to fight in-car noises with your money buying better amps or top speakers. A smarter way is to solve in-car noise is to just up the volume knob.

To the MANY of you who are willing to PAY for best sounding systems, my advice is...
Get what you must if you have the money. But DON'T try to invest a 24-bit system hoping to squeeze the best out of 16-bit music. You could use buy an expensive HU with built in 7-band equalizer but sound is NOTICEABLY better to get a entry-level HU coupled with a generic equalizer hardware.









Get what you must if you have the money. But DON'T try to invest a 24-bit system hoping to squeeze the best out of 16-bit music. You could use buy an expensive HU with built in 7-band equalizer but sound is NOTICEABLY better to get a entry-level HU coupled with a generic equalizer hardware.

This tread is about being a smart buyer, not about going against good sound system and not paying extras for products that isn't gonna make ur system abundantly better. I too will get good branded stuffs when I need to.

This post has been edited by MrPudujail: Nov 11 2010, 02:41 PM

you left out the question: where is the common sense on all indulgence?

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Added on November 11, 2010, 2:39 pmif i understand you properly... getting a well built EQ would put you into the high budget seat... how?

This post has been edited by craziechild: Nov 11 2010, 02:39 PM

I'm sure my organs are working out very fine, thank you very much. Else i wouldn't be able to enjoy the charade you're putting up right here.

Just so you know (as it never seemed to get through you anyways), YOUR experience is yours solely and by no means its factual and no less accurate than what is posted up on websites that are handled and maintained by numerous people. which again, majority > minority rule, and you're the minority.

while i may be an old record posting factual links, you're the ignorant white noise thats been trying to force your own ideals and experience over others WITHOUT ANYTHING to back you up.

omg "he started it" "you started it" meh. And you're trying to talk me down on being immature? look at yourself rofl. And sure, try to justify your personal attacks with your maturity will you? lol.
as for grounding cables/equalizers, if you've actually read (and understand) from my previous post, you wouldn't even be posting what you're posting now. but yea, after repeating the same thing for like 4 posts and you clearly never seem to understand, ill just leave it up to you to continue on your own delusions.

sure, things from the internet may not be true. However i am more inclined to believe over something that is backed by numerous individuals that can accept and correct/update any errors/information that may arise versus ONE OPINION from you that is too ignorant to accept anything. And rather than myself not getting the point of starting this topic, you yourself are not getting how POINTLESS of yourself starting this topic at all.

wow, long thread, tl;dr............

anyway....... YES...... it is stupid. dun upgrade ICE. just use your stock system. Car manufacturers pay engineers a lot of money, so they can't be wrong. your stock system is all you need.

all you get after upgrading is only better music on the road. after all you only spend a few hours a day in your car. better sit in your living room and listen to even better music while you stare at your shiny AVR and try and ascertain if you should move the speaker by 6.5 degrees.

solution: dun play ICE, dun play home hifi (actually home theatre is fairly entertaining). ---------->read more, bring your gf/family to the park.

problem is he claimed that hes getting cheap hardware EQs

My ICE already cost me RM7k on a Myvi
But I had not get enough yet.

achieving good sound is fine.
achieving best possible sound is not.
achieving good price is fine.
achieving best brand is not necessary.
your threshold is in your car kinetic noise.


Depends on whether or not you got next SQ-worthy thing to purchase in mind.

If you have the cash to burn then good.
Well built EQ also come in different prices and ranges.
Everyone's definition of rich is not the same.
But everyone's hearing capability is almost the same.
Go for listening tests. Ask for a full demo.
If you like the sound and price, buy it.
If you compare to another branded (and expensive) unit and there's slightly better SQ (but so much higher in price) in the more branded one, buy the cheaper one. Chances are, you won't hear major differences while driving on noisy roads.

That money saved could get yourself better capacitor for your tweeters to get better sounding highs or bigger grounding cables for your power hungry amp.
The bottomline is to get huge improvement on SQ without spending alot, but dont overdo it.

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Added on November 12, 2010, 10:52 amIt's not enough, and it will NEVER be.

It can turn into an addiction. Just ask Quazacolt

So use my guidelines to achieve what you want to hear.

This post has been edited by MrPudujail: Nov 12 2010, 12:56 PM

Noises around us doesn't really matter much because we know it's unavoidable. That's where people spend on soundproofing to reduce those noises.

Well I'm sure most of us don't live at a big bungalow. I live at a small house fitted in between others. Hardly I can enjoy my home stereo or maybe because i don't own one. Most of the time can hear neighbour playing piano or their better equipped hifi, dog barking, rempit racing, ah beng revving their evo-wannabe, can't figure out yelling or singing from bathroom next door, etc .. That's way too much noise than my car and to soundproof my room alone cost more than my ICE setup..

I think a decent 4-channels amplifer + component + sub will achieve good sound and it cost around RM 3k but RM 96 double 10" sub from Brothers will not.
How much is your soooo much?

Here's my humble setup (and dun laff):

-Sony HU (with LPF and 3-band EQ)- RM299
-unbranded 2 two-way coax on kickpanels - taken from a used old car
-a pair of 2nd hand two-way JBLs in rear - RM277
-Nippon 7-band EQ, 300watts 60Hz-12kHz - RM90
-Generic 4-ch amp 400W bridgeable - RM290
-2 subs 10" with 27Oz magnet - RM96

With money saved i bought:
-materials for handmade subwoofer enclosure - RM50
-Thick Awg #4 & 8 cables for speakers and amp wiring - RM120
-tantalum and 200,000uF filter capacitors - RM30
-grounding kit and voltage stabilizer - RM80
-carpeting and EMI shielding - RM90

TOTAL SPENT = RM1422

Doesn't sound good? Well, I have a professional sound setup at home to verify that.

Had I allocated a 3K budget, i prolly use the remaining RM1578 to buy a brand new Les Paul guitar to play in the car.

This post has been edited by MrPudujail: Nov 12 2010, 01:40 PM

very interesting topic. BTW, where can i get Les Paul guitar less thank 2K.

do u mean ur system sounds better than a 3k system bro? and lets leave the home audio out of this topic since it's ICE thread.

Oh ok. Sounds fair. You saved RM 1,578 because you're a genius with knowledge and have ways to find used part with unknown condition while I spent the additional stupidity money for a brand new stuff at accessory shop or forummer. I don't play guitar so the extra money spent on ICE is worth it. Even if i know how to play guitar, I wouldn't get that so called Les Paul guitar. Just as long as it has the A to E string, that will do and it cost not even half of yours. I thought you talking about people who spent the amount on ICE which you can get a new car, then I'll stand on your side but I was wrong.

i think MrPudujail mention it is " LOW PROFILE HIGH PERFOMANCE "

Yes. Who's talking about home audio here?

I don't understand


That's right buddy!

show me your IASCA score sheets?

This post has been edited by craziechild: Nov 12 2010, 10:07 PM

tell me exactly... how close does your system match with your so called home pro sound setup...

in these criteria:
width
depth
tonality
imaging

looking forward to hear this.

thanks.

are u guys stupid or WHAT? quit arguing with ppl like him, ur own ears will do the judgment.

+1