Here's a rather round table topic to discuss about.

Out of the 5 games I've played with Australians, atleast 3-4 of them do some weird cheese!
I've played a ton of games, if it isn't cheese, it's some weird proxy right in your base kinda thing, lose out and go kapoof! wasting away atleast 5 minutes of build time!
Jeez! Can't this mate's play straight?
This doesn't happen so much with other SEA players, and they actually play a macro game.
Whatsup with Aussies!?!?!?

cheese = fun.

fun for cheesing player

no fun for losing player

cheese is still a strat .....a coward strat .....no rules state that they cant cheese....just live with it : )

CHeese is easy to counter once you know how and practiced~

i like enemy cheese me, just now i play with a dude, he 12 drone rush me, and i went panic then lose out the game hahahahaha

to be honest, why play a game where you just tied down to the oh standard BO. just relax and play a game.. :]

regards,
casual player.

I don't mind praticing against cheese builds so that I have no fear on them next time

6-pool = cheese ? just want to know

but doesn't just fills your heart with joy to own failed cheesers? =p.

cheese are valid strategies and definitely NOT cowardly...
u see pros do it all the time so does that mean its cowardly?
watch GSL and see how much cheese there are...
of course 2cheese in a row is kinda as its kinda boring to watch LOL

Damn TS you're lucky, i wanted to meet some cheesy opponent so i can learn how to be calm and patient, jealous of you seriously.

This post has been edited by kEazYc: Oct 21 2010, 07:00 PM

come play me... i cheese you..

I actually learned a lot of crisis management thanks to the cheesing tactics =)

Well in a way it can be considered cowardly depends on how you perceive it. But if you treat it as training, you can be really powerful in the future >:D

Anyway TS, if you understand cantonese then i will intro you a song for you to listen as a conclusion of this thread, Manhand's 漫游世界

you mad brah?

If they cheese

Prepare a fondue

Lol, but doesn't it like irritate you that you just wasted like that amount of time, regardless if you win or lose to that cheese? Dont you fellars like kinda wish there was some epic micro and macro in-game? =(

I don't have alot of time on my hands to play all the time, so I always try n make the most outta it, but cheesers.. mai gawd...

If I am able to defend the cheese, I will feel satisfied if I win. Last time i played with a 6 pool zerg + all in drones in scrap station map. -,-" imagine haha

cheese are actually easy to counter.and if it fails the cheeser will be at great disadvantage. in fact i regard the 5 roach opening more of a cheese coz of its imbaness now as compared to 6 pool

I love cheese. With wine.

Owning cheesers is always a highlight of my day.

though in 2v2 3v3 4v4 cheese are really annoying at some map (and u are the victim of 3 6pool though i defended one alone as a zerg before)...
2 well placed spine and micro with drones and queens FTW!

I think cheesing is normal in games like this. Like the Huntress or Orc's watch tower rush in warcraft 3 RoC ( when launched, pre-patch retail). Then came NE's march of the ancients.

You do have the choice to cheese yourself too. I believe by keeping your calm and proper control/placement, you can come up on top when being cheesed.

No choice but have to train to adapt lo...

Yeah. Or double/triple proxy rax with bunkers.

Ck, don't sohai here plz. Go activate ur us account n play there.. not as much cheesers as sea server

Seems the other way round, I found US server having more cheese and bad player than SEA. But maybe that's because I'm in the lower league

i almost majority of bronze leagues i play i cheese people (achievement galore!)

All hail pro-cheeser.

I noticed when playing 2v2 some favored opponents like to cheese their way but failed. Usually this is expected and we get an easy win with lotsa points

haha i agree..NA server play more standard than SEA who likes rushes n cheeses...

anyway defending a cheese gives u a great satisfaction...lolz
u need lots of micro n game sense to defend 1...

lots of pros using cheese as well... no fun playing straight... if everyone play straight game Zerg will have huge advantage...
stop whining and train urself to def against cheese strategy...

yeap... any uncommon strategy is considered cheese... mostly rush strategy is consider cheese... according to Artosis and Tasteless...

This post has been edited by RyonanGT: Oct 22 2010, 03:52 PM

why do they call cheese?
Any other words to say?

1 of my favourite cheese:

10 probes rush..

i would LOL if it was a success..
and will watch the replay to see how the opponent went panic..

It's like you scouted your opponent cannon rushing you and he's like "say cheeseeeeeeeeeee~!"

Maybe because cheese stinks (depnds on your taste kua) hahahahaa

perhaps the correct word would be - a pre-emtive strike at your enemy

isn't that the part and parcel of strategy game?

to me it's very simple. I'll try to annoy my opponent like no body business. Even if I'm losing, at least I'm going to make it tougher for you to take me down than just SURRENDER.

even if it means lifting up my base and fly around, forcing you to tech up and send an air unit over.

very nice attitude there

But not wrong =)

Lol! I hate players like you! I played a aussie who did that!!! hahaha! wasted 35 mins of my time!

ill just leech achievements. then again, i've already gotten pretty much everything, just lacking an achievement or 2 (maybe 3 max? lol) from zen master (like that kill 5 stupid changelings for example lol)

what that? van post a link to it?

buahahaha. wanna win, at least work for it! wanna go down also, go down with a fight mah.......... just surrender like that where got fun.

btw it's not wasted time man, if you keep on thinking it's WASTED time then you're just expecting people to hand over victory to you.

Spending another 10 mins to chase down stray buildings when you already have no way back into game is not my idea of fun though.

well only Terrans can do that. and that also if they're so free to do so. Protoss players, well they run around build pylons or whatever. hrmrmr......

Haha maybe I should rename the thread to EFFING STUPID CHEEING AUSSIE TERRENS! hahaha

i hate it too when they have banshees to bully my poor roaches and their EFFING BUILDING LIFT OFF and after tht hatch killed by banshee.

Hahaha... As long as you destroyed all the bases, all the Pylon locations will be revealed. Don't worry.

Yeah only Terran can play this kind of hide and seek game. Quite tiring though (But at the same time kinda fun compared to if just surrender).

usually noob players who are unsatisfy with their games will do this. -,-"

things tat annoy me arent tat my teammates r cheesed, but they giv up so easily n just quit, while i see there's a good chance we can hold it off n just hit the opponents' bases.

at least tat's wht lower league players do, rage quit

Lifting off n running away isnt considered a cheese..

cheese = desperate moves.

desperate move = lifting off and running away

lifting off and running away = cheese.

that is not the definition of cheese "

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Cheese

the term "cheese" originated from the word "cheater's".

i feel tht lifting off is somewhat 'main tipu' bcoz only terran can do tht

well, i'm wrong but. i still feel it's a desperate attempt. which most cheese are.

This post has been edited by IisTHEmoron: Oct 26 2010, 07:46 PM

u are so wrong "
no offense but dun confuse ppl with such facts or come up with ur own origin...
the liquipedia is by far the best wiki for sc2 and it says otherwise >.<

well if its wat u feel i'm totally fine with it. but that doesn't mean coz u feel its that way u can go and change the whole definition and confuse other ppl about
-.-
what if i said.. a toss can build a whole base with 1 probe. a terran can't.. i feel tht its "main tipu" bcoz only toss can do tht

so strict over the definition.

oh well.

EFFING CHEESING AUSIES!

Terran can lift of but if be does sure he is far behind in economy and army so still lose so no difference...

its an advantage for base trading though =p

this type common la. even against AI also there are such players.

i had a game, 2 vs 2 AI. this guy's units got whacked silly due to his expansion. after that he just quit.

fortunately his drones are still left collecting minerals so i manage to spam kau kau my defenses and win the game.

it's funny how some people can just quit without consent or some form of communications in working out a strategy.

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Added on October 27, 2010, 2:52 amyeah, especially when just stuck with lings and roach. WTH!??! you can't run and can't hit air units while the fella can lift-off and hit air units! damn Terrans.

we gt guns. Thts why we are l33t lol

earth shield > guns

Yea and arthas is a jedi that cn block bullets with his frostmourne rite. Lol

i think zerg main tipu bcoz they have a free overlord at the beginning so they can make spawning pool straight away unlike terran and toss

Haha. Probably Blizz gonna put in Hatchery starts with 10 supply and Zerg now start with 0 overlords.

u cuba main with 5 pool rush in small map and see... terran belum habis barrack..sudah gg...

jz pull scv and atk the lings...
make use of the slower scv atk speed to atk -> pull back...
in the end, both of u should be even (u losing some scv, him having low drone count from early pool)...
dun panic when u get 6pool, its nt a big deal if u can handle it till ur first unit is out...

Ah that is normal reaction.. but smart zergs kill the SVC building barracks then just kacau onli pull the scvs from mining..

The SCVs come..the lings retreat... bad for econ..while the zerg continues to mine..

Difficult to defend since depot before barracks...

For TvZ, a 9 supply scouting scv will be able to tell you that the zerg is doing a 6pool rush or not. from there just complete your wall up and it will be completed in time before the 6 lings get to you.

some points that can help to delay the lings are.

1. use the scouting scv to disturb his mining time by atking the workers. 6 pool requires all drones to be mining without downtime to get 150 minerals to hatch 3 larvaes the moment spawning pool completes. if u make his workers lose mining time, you have gained some fair bit of advantage here. 4 lings compard to 6 lings in the early rush.

2. use the scouting scv to patrol his chokepoint, it will force the lings to atk the scv buying you some time (2secs roughly).

3. if they ran past your patrolling scv, just take that scv to atk his drone again. u will cause him to micro more and if he doesnt focus, he could lose a drone in the process.

4. change your build order once you scouted that he had indeed 6 pooled, build your 2nd depot sooner to complete the wall and pull 2-3 scv to repair the building as your marine is in progress, once that marine is out the lings will retreat.

i've done these sort of def against 6 pool rush in 1v1 small maps before, definitely not tough and the changes between supply and barracks build order doesnt really affect it much. ive always been doing 9supply 10rax. once you see that the lings retreat, with your economy advantage, go for hellions to harass and if baneling is the next move, go mech to tank the banelings. hellions does the job without wasting gas in which you can tech to banshee/thors and its over for them.

OK..sounds good. Will try that because usually I wall up with a bunker and salvage it later.

if i do a 6 pool. usually i'd go all in. which means after lings are done pull all drones off and attack... works.

bunker requires the barracks to be completed. a 2nd supply depot however can be constructed to complete the wall before your barracks is done. if i recall correctly my wall was completed but my rax was still in the making when the lings arrived. but with the scv on stand by to repair the buildings and buy time till the marine pops out, 6 lings cant really do enough dmg to break your supply depot thats being repaired.

wouldn't you have completely lost should the T player wall up and you have just handed a free win? 6 lings + 7 drones is a big army, but isnt enough to take out the T wall due to the choke point.

I can see it cause some damage against protoss but if they were to wall up as well with some probes blocking any leakage, wouldnt you have also given an auto loss to the protoss player?


against another zerg, i understand some does the rush 6 lings with 2 spines. it is very viable if the other Z does not have an early pool.

Yea. I certainly ate that one.
Now that I think back, think that was you in Shakuras Plateau.
Was really refreshing seeing that. Was not expecting drones to come along.

Thanks to you (if that game was really you as I can't really remember),
my strat changed to forge first now against a zerg 6-pool.

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Added on October 27, 2010, 3:58 pmThe only problem would be Scrap Station which is kinda hard to wall in with that big ramp.
Though you do have an option to fly your command centre to the island if it does happen and you scouted it early.

The rush if not prepared, you might not be able to stop it as they can actually take down your gateway wall even.
My poor zealots was surrrounded when they came out of the gateway. Though it was only a half surround, it was still quite a killer with so many units on my ramp...

This post has been edited by tatyinw: Oct 27 2010, 03:58 PM

tat can b done in 1v1, but when ur playing 4v4 n there r 3 zerg, all gone 6 pool, it'll be a fast gg lol

See now, this is where your team turtle up and wtfpwnzor back when they still only have zerglings. (reapers are awesome against 6poolers)

it maybe gg for u but not for the team...
they will have more time to get their army while the 3 other zergs who 6 pool are having a low eco...
can say u become their meatshield to gain the win...

when 3 zerg 6 pools, the best bet is the poor soul that go rushed by 18 zerglings just need to continue mining minerals and send 1-2 workers into allies base to rebuild later. send all minerals to your allies to help them with walling and techs. the match suddenly becomes 1 v 3 in favor to your team.

get ur team to tech/ mass up t1.5 and roflpwn them back...
each player would be able to handle 2 6pooler since their economy is soooo behind...

Aye. And banelings are prefect for the job. They melt speedlings so easily. (and drones too).

What's wrong? Cheese can be eaten with plenty of foods. There's cheese beef, cheeseburger, cheese on fries..And you question the legitimacy of why Aussies like cheese?



But on a more serious note, cheesing in 1v1 is so easy to counter. It becomes hard when you play team leagues involving 3v3 and 4v4 because often fourcheese (lol) on you will most certainly result in doom if your teammates can't take advantage of their macro game.

I think others like arcbound covered it. By cheesing one guy, you're telling his teammates "sup, our econ is dead"

I got 6 pool roach rushed today, but managed to claw my way back, and when I was blowing up his base, and he was going GG, I asked where was he from.
Surprise surprise, it's an Aussie AGAIN. Battle.net really likes to pit me against cheesing Aussie's, WHYYYY =(

u'll see more SEA players that cheese than ausie...
so dun generalize...

I hate zerg becuase of you. lol!

6 pool all in rushes is the weakest cheese and is easy to fend off.

Scout
Wall off
Build marines/Chrono boost Zealots
Good game

BTW why are you blaming it on the Aussies? Everybody cheese once a while when they play Starcraft 2.


This post has been edited by SeeD: Oct 30 2010, 08:00 PM

6 pool roach rush ?

o.O 6 pool roach rush?!

this mean a really really fast roach?

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Added on October 31, 2010, 2:10 pmi wonder is it: 6 pool 9 gas 10 roach warren -> spam roach?

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 31 2010, 02:10 PM

Interesting ... I'll try that out in my next game *GRIN*

6 pool roach rush? Thats gonna be new

Any teams playing today, so boring...

by going 6 pool i wonder if u'd hav sufficient resources to spam roaches later......

So many cheesers on SEA (not particular Aussie because I am not sure where they're from) but almost every game that I play are either proxy gateway, 6 pool and craps like that.

Can't we just play a standard game?

For that player that is named as ChubbChubbs or something, man.. if you guys play him or ever met him, he will 110% proxy gateway you.

teamgames are full with cheese...
and its usually impossible to stop when ur bases are too far...
at times its better to jz counter attack and ask ur partner to abandon base (or lift off)

What are you talking about? Are you playing the same game as mine or just simply don't understand what I've said? Or are you just being sarcastic?

I did not mention anything about team games at all. I play 1v1.

i was saying SEA team game have lots of cheese...
since u said SEA is full of cheese...
any problem wit it?

team play cheeze is very hard to fight back, imagine 4v4 with 3 zerg player using 6 pool rush, tats just crazy...

Aussie cheese? Go wild! Six player cheese! (No pun intended)



This post has been edited by ff7yta: Nov 1 2010, 09:00 PM

i tested out 6 pool roach. difficult. the resources just don't move fast enough to make it viable. considering you need to spend on
a) overlords
b) roach warren
c) more drones
d) extractor, and assign at least 2 drones.

omg u actually tried it out? O.o
think 6pool roach is not feasible at all...
i thinka 10pool would be better?

i tried as in not after i read this thread la but it was something along the lines of it.

last night i was testing out, in case z v z and the fella want to rush me. so go 6 pool first. after 6 pool want to reach roach - it's damn slow already because 200m already go to pool. that's 4 drones worth of resource x mineral trips.

from my experience, 10 > overlord > + 3 more drones. then only go pool. food reach 13 - 15 range, add another overlord. up to you want to go gas or not. i usually go gas, then assign at least 2 drones there. after pool ready should also have $$$ for queen.