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TSdariofoo
post Aug 28 2011, 07:27 PM

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QUOTE(suiteng @ Aug 28 2011, 11:37 AM)
Cool, there's a few purchasers with the same situation. Guess need to appoint a lawyer smile.gif

Thanks for the advice biggrin.gif
*
Just want to add something.

If you want to take the developer to Court to enforce its promise made via the booking form, what you are going for is called specific performance (SP). In property transactions, SP is a usual remedy to compel a seller to sell the property to the purchaser based on a letter of offer to purchase/SPA. In such cases, it is quite clear cut - the property is defined (usually a completed, tangible property) and the other details are all ironed out properly in the letter of offer/SPA.

In your case, there are not much details in the booking form. What you have is just basically description of the property and the price. You now want to compel the developer to construct a property which fits the description (whatever little stated) in the booking form via an order for SP. There's not tangible property yet, so your SP would be for the developer to construct and thereafter sell to you that particular unit at that particular price, as stated in the booking form.

As far as the law is concerned, SP will only be granted where damages is not an adequate remedy. In the earlier example given, the Court will allow the SP as there is no reason why the seller ought to be allowed to off the hook just by paying damages to the purchaser. The purchaser must be given the right to purchase that particular unit at the agreed price. Damages will not be an adequate remedy in that case, as there is no duplicate for the property which the purchaser can turn to. There is only that one particular unit which has been identified and agreed upon.

In your case, there isn't even a tangible property to begin with. The developer can rebut your case by stating the reasons why the project could not be constructed and sold to you at the initial agreed price and/or description. The explanation through their letter (although vague) would be their point of reference. Probably they did not get their developer's license for that description of property? In that case, it has become impossible for them to continue to construct that property. In such case, SP will not be granted by the Court.

Furthermore, in your case, damages (compensation) could be an adequate remedy. What are your losses so far? A few thousand RM in booking fees? You haven't even appointed a lawyer to draft out the SPA. Even if you had, damages would cover reimbursing you all legal fees paid.

As such, I think that it won't be easy to get an order for SP in your case - even if you get around 200-300 purchasers to kick up a fuss.

Nothing to lose to consult a lawyer though. Just don't end up wasting good money chasing bad money. Make sure that the lawyer has a good battle plan lined up.

Good luck icon_rolleyes.gif





TSdariofoo
post Aug 28 2011, 07:29 PM

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QUOTE(gragon @ Aug 28 2011, 04:42 PM)
I would like to find out if oral contracts are enforceable for property transactions in Malaysia.

The situation is that I made an offer to buy a property to the owner.  He agreed verbally, and I issued him a cheque and signed on a letter of offer.  He later changed his mind and decided not to sell at the agreed price.  He had not signed on the letter of offer and also not banked in the earnest deposit cheque.

Can I get enforce the oral agreement by taking him to court -- either to seek for specific performance or damages?

Nothing is written except for the following:
1) the email by the property agent suggests that there was a verbal agreement
2) however, the letter of offer that I signed explicitly states that "the letter of offer is only effective after both parties sign on the letter of offer"

How strong is my case?
*
As you had said:
2) however, the letter of offer that I signed explicitly states that "the letter of offer is only effective after both parties sign on the letter of offer"

That's the last nail in the coffin for your case. I don't think you can go any further than that. Oral representations/terms can't replace terms put in writing. Section 91, Evidence Act 1950. Sorry, mate. nod.gif
TSdariofoo
post Aug 28 2011, 07:35 PM

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QUOTE(dexterhau @ Aug 28 2011, 07:21 PM)
Hi dariofoo,

Need your help again. Questions as follow:-
1. I got a filled "CKHT 502 Form" and "2% cheque payment for Ketua Pengarah Hasil Dalam Negeri" from the Purchaser Lawyer
2. I already filled up my CKHT 2A through e-Filling CKHT except the "Tarikh Bayaran" as well as "Nombor Resit Bayaran".

My next step is to proceed to LHDN to submit the "2% cheque payment for Ketua Pengarah Hasil Dalam Negeri" and fill up the "Tarikh Bayaran" as well as "Nombor Resit Bayaran" and submit together with "CKHT 502 Form".

Am I right?

After these, what should I do next?
*
1. You submit your cheque for 2% together with Form 502 at LHDN Jalan Duta payment counter.
2. Once paid, fill up that "Tarikh Bayaran" as well as "Nombor Resit Bayaran" in your CKHT 2A online.
3. Print CKHT 2A out, sign it and submit it to the branch where your tax file is registered.
4. Wait for the notice by LHDN - whether you'll get a rebate, or they would demand for extra payment of RPGT.

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TSdariofoo
post Aug 28 2011, 11:04 PM

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QUOTE(dexterhau @ Aug 28 2011, 07:49 PM)
Hi dariofoo,

1. Is it a must to submit my 2% cheque to LHDN Jalan Duta or can I submit it to other branch such as LHDN Menara PGRM or LHDN Wisma KWSG Jalan Kg. Attap?
2. Noted.
3. Again the same question, must I submit it to the branch where my tax file is registered or other branch will do? Can I do it within the same day when I am at the LHDN branch? Maybe I will use Hard Copy instead?
4. Just FYI, I am the purchaser, why I will get a rebate? I thought the tax suppose to be paid by the Vendor and if there is any rebate or extra payment will be directed to the Vendor right?

Thank you.
*
1. Payment counter is at Jalan Duta. At the HQ itself. For other places to pay am not 100% sure so perhaps you can browse their website to find out.

3. You can try your luck to submit it at any branch, but if they do a quick check and find out that it's not the exact branch, then will reject the docs. By right it ought to be accepted in any branch, but the actual practice differs from what LHDN initially promised. To be safe, better just file it at your tax branch.

4. You're 100% right. My mistake there. Am always quick to assume that the one who submits is the one who pays. In actual practice the vendor can undertake to file CKHT 502 and pay the 2% themselves to LHDN. As such, the purchaser would stay out of the transaction. In your case, obviously you're paying on behalf of the vendor using the retention sum. Humble apologies.

Cheerios. smile.gif


This post has been edited by dariofoo: Aug 28 2011, 11:06 PM
TSdariofoo
post Aug 28 2011, 11:16 PM

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QUOTE(gragon @ Aug 28 2011, 10:49 PM)
Thanks for your valuable comment.  Very much appreciated.

Out of curiosity, I understand that there's this Statutes of Fraud (which I suspect is part of the Common Law) that explicitly states that oral contracts are just as valid as written ones, except in certain circumstances where written agreement is required (e.g.  real estate transactions). Is there something similar in Malaysia where contract must necessarily be written for real estate transactions?
*
Don't get me wrong, mate. I didn't say that oral contracts are unforceable. Oral contracts are 100% enforceable, no doubt. So are contracts by way of conduct. There is nothing which says that a contract must be put down in writing.

What I stated refers to the gist of your case - i.e. that since there already are terms put down in writing (as per the letter of offer), then any oral evidence to the contrary cannot be adduced and accepted which contradicts those terms.

Let me illustrate:

Vendor's case - terms of the letter of offer states that "the letter of offer is only effective after both parties sign on the letter of offer". The purchaser had signed the letter of offer. I did not sign the letter of offer. As such, the letter of offer does not bind me.

* As you can see, he is relying on the terms of the letter of offer.

Your case (as purchaser) - you signed the letter of offer, you paid the 2% cheque and the owner verbally told you that he is agreeable. The agent also sent you and email confirming same (I assume so as you did not delve into its contents).

* You, on the contrary, is relying on the vendor's oral agreement, and the email by the agent.

Before the Court, you cannot adduce evidence of the vendor's oral agreement nor the contents of the email by the agent to support your claim that the vendor has accepted your offer to purchase the property. Why? Because those evidence contradicts the written terms of the letter of offer which clearly stipulates that "the letter of offer is only effective after both parties sign on the letter of offer".

So, did both parties sign on the letter of offer? No.

End of story.

Hope the explanation above suffices for your understanding. Sorry if it's not clear enough. If you're still not satisfied, you can always seek professional legal advice.

Good luck icon_rolleyes.gif

PS: Common law does not apply when there is statute. Common law cannot supersede statute, i.e. the Evidence Act in this case. nod.gif



TSdariofoo
post Aug 29 2011, 01:55 AM

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QUOTE(izdyharz @ Aug 28 2011, 11:57 PM)
Im sorry guys, anybody can guides me where can i find information to sell a house? I have zero knowledge in selling house. I bought a house at rm400k a year n half ago, and due to some personal reason wanted to let it go. Im still paying my interest, havent paid the installments.

The developer agent who were my agent when i bought the house last time told me there is a buyer wanted to buy house at rm500k. Now the thing i really dunno what should i do now, should i appoint a lawyer or something. He asked me to sign an agreement to let the new buyer buy the house.

He told me im not gonna lose anything(despite there is 3% penalty for early settlement), i can get back my money deposit rm13k plus interest i have been paying for 1 year n half bout rm12k, so the total ive paid is rm25K. He told me i can get  back rm40k plus minus after minus out everthing.

How do i go from here?
*
Since you seem quite lost, I would suggest that you appoint a lawyer to act for you for the sale of the property. Although in some cases, the vendor chooses to be unrepresented and 'tumpang' the purchaser's lawyer, I think that it would be better for you to appoint one at the moment.

Don't sign anything prepared by the agent unless you fully understand the terms and conditions. If you're uncertain, appoint a lawyer to vet through it, and that lawyer would also vet through the draft S&P prepared for the subsequent sale.

You would have to pay legal fees for the lawyer, which you can calculate using the calculator at the first page of this thread. You can also download the SRO in PDF format. Since you own the property for less than 5years, you would also need to pay RPGT - which is 5% of the nett gain.

Good luck mate. icon_rolleyes.gif


TSdariofoo
post Aug 29 2011, 02:04 AM

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QUOTE(gragon @ Aug 29 2011, 12:14 AM)
I was trying to understand if there is a requirement in Malaysia that real estate transactions MUST BE IN WRITTEN AGREEMENT for it to be enforceable.  This follows from the Common Law (I believe the Statutes of Fraud) that explicitly states that oral agreement is not good enough for real estate transactions.

Thanks
*
I'm sorry I missed out that query.

No, there's no such requirement in Malaysia,mate.

In any event, written agreements are always preferred and has the most probative value when it comes to evidence. Oral evidence is essentially one person's word against the other. You claimed he said it, he will deny that he ever said it.

If you're claiming for something you have to prove it. You want to prove the existence of a fact, and the burden of proof lies on you.

As such, to rely merely on oral representation is essentially a weak (although not an impossible) case for you.

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TSdariofoo
post Aug 29 2011, 02:12 AM

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QUOTE(Milo_O @ Aug 29 2011, 01:22 AM)
So far, i had done my reading up to pg 44 in a single night and still reading.
I got nothing but amazing to describe dariofoo.
*
Go easy on the kind words, mate, or else people will think that you're my dupe. sweat.gif

44 pages in one night? notworthy.gif Once you hit 100 pages, no lawyer will be able to con you biggrin.gif .

QUOTE(Milo_O @ Aug 29 2011, 01:22 AM)
I'm looking for my first purchase on a property. Lets hope no complication arise.
*
When you go through the many notes of charges/invoices/quotations in this thread, you can understand further the charges which your lawyer can or cannot charge you, and also how much the lawyer ought to charge you. This will put you in good stead when you get your quotation from your lawyer when you do make your first purchase.

Good luck icon_rolleyes.gif
TSdariofoo
post Aug 29 2011, 10:05 AM

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QUOTE(suiteng @ Aug 29 2011, 02:43 AM)
If we did not authorize / acknowledge this letter, the legal firm can't proceed with the new SPA right?
*
Of course. And it would be highly likely that they will refund your booking fee and close the matter.

QUOTE(suiteng @ Aug 29 2011, 02:43 AM)
My losses.. well, the property - they surely underestimated the price and potential growth, and interest free loan to the developer to "test market". In this case, what kinda damages I can claim besides the booking fees and disbursement? If paksa also they cannot do the property according to agreed specification and price, then I rugi RM310k - RM192k = RM118k.
*
You can't claim for RM118k. You can only claim your booking fees and all disbursements/legal fees incurred up to date.
TSdariofoo
post Aug 29 2011, 11:16 PM

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QUOTE(lyt25_1234 @ Aug 29 2011, 04:11 PM)
hi dorifoo,

Can I ask usually how long it takes to process the bank loan?
One month? less than a month?
*
Sorry I don't understand. "Process the bank loan" in the sense that the bank processes your loan application to issue you a letter of offer? If so, then normally 10 working days is the time frame given. Of course, the more efficient the loan officer and bank, the faster the LO can be issued.
TSdariofoo
post Aug 29 2011, 11:19 PM

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QUOTE(dexterhau @ Aug 29 2011, 08:59 PM)
Hi Dariofoo,

I need your help again. My Sales and Purchase Agreement was dated 5th July 2011 and I am supposed to submit my CKHT2A and CKHT502 within 60 days to LHDN. However, the 60th day will be this Friday (2/9/2011). I hope LHDN will still open this Friday even though it is Raya Holiday.
*
Officially it's a working day,so it ought to be alright.

QUOTE(dexterhau @ Aug 29 2011, 08:59 PM)
What is the penalty for late submission of CKHT2A and CKHT502?
*
10% from the taxable gain to be determined by LHDN. You would have to pay this. nod.gif
TSdariofoo
post Sep 2 2011, 11:47 PM

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QUOTE(super911 @ Aug 31 2011, 11:00 AM)
Hi Dario,
  Few months back, I purchased a subsale underconstruction property for RM1mil. S&P signed with the owner. Now, someone offer to buy for RM1.1mil. MOT and loan has not done yet because the property is still under construction. Is it possible for 1st owner to transfer directly to the new buyer?
*
Transfer of title? If MOT has not been prepared it can only mean that individual title is not out yet, so the question of transfer doesn't arise. Beneficial interest in the property will be determined by the Deed of Assignment nod.gif

Hope I answered your question. hmm.gif

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TSdariofoo
post Sep 3 2011, 12:03 AM

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QUOTE(griffon @ Sep 1 2011, 12:03 AM)
Hi everyone,

I checked the SPA of the unit we bought and I was surprised to see that defect liability period is 18 months... This SPA was signed in March 2009, but according to the amended Housing Development (Control and Licensing) Regulations which came into operation on 1 December 2007, the defect liability period should be 24 months... ?? Is it a mistake from the developer or is there a specific reason ? But the project was launched several months before the 1 December 2007, could it be a reason ??
*
Yes it ought to be 24 months. It doesn't matter that it was launched in 2007 before the amendments were gazetted. What matters is the date of the SPA. Bring it to the attention of the developer.
TSdariofoo
post Sep 3 2011, 12:05 AM

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QUOTE(dexterhau @ Sep 1 2011, 05:13 PM)
Hi Darifoo,

My scenario as follow:-
Property purchase value: RM136,800
2% tax submission to LHDN : RM2,736.00
1 - Vendor (Pelupus)
2 - Purchaser (Pemeroleh)

When I am filling up CKHT2A and CKHT502, I found a few places which I do not know or unsure to fill in the right value.
1. Bahagian Pemerolehan (Should I write 1/2 or 1 since I have 2 Pemeroleh)
2. Bahagian Pelupusan (I should write 1 right?)
3. In CKHT502, there is 2% Harga Bahagian Diperoleh (RM) (Should I fill up the full amount RM2,736.00 or RM1,368.00 if the Bahagian Pemerolehan is 1/2)

Thank you for your advice. Hope to hear from you soon.
*
1. Put 1/2
2. Write SEMUA.
3. Each person puts in his/her share only - so in this case it would be RM1,368.00, but with regard to payment one cheque for the whole amount can be issued.

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TSdariofoo
post Sep 5 2011, 04:21 PM

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QUOTE(may1126 @ Sep 5 2011, 02:31 PM)
Hi, sifu..
Recently bought a link hse with SPA price RM330k, refer to the invoice, i realized tat private caveat cost me RM730.
and another one is Register of MOT - RM400.
all of this is it reasonable charges ?

thanks sifu ^^
*
Don't be confused:
-Entry private caveat - RM200
-withdraw private caveat - RM150

These are legal fees which the lawyer pockets to prepare the docs. The SRO allows lawyers to charge that sum. Download the SRO at the first page of this thread.


-Register of entry private caveat - RM320
-Register of withdraw private caveat - RM60

These are disbursements to pay the Land Office to lodge and withdraw the private caveat.

Reasonable or not - please refer to previous invoices and comments thereto in the previous pages of this thread.. nod.gif
TSdariofoo
post Sep 5 2011, 10:34 PM

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QUOTE(dexterhau @ Sep 4 2011, 07:51 PM)
Yeap... I went to LHDN last Friday. So nice... No people...
Already gao dim everything. So nice.

Thanks for your advise...

But when I go submit my CKHT2A, just submit to the front counter only ah? Then they acknowledge only lo... Secure? How long will they get back to me?
*
Yeah sorry as the advice was too late. Busy.

Acknowledgement on your copy is good enough. Nothing for you to follow up. Give the original receipt (for the 2%) to the vendor and the vendor will follow up with LHDN,
TSdariofoo
post Sep 7 2011, 04:19 PM

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QUOTE(jessy123 @ Sep 6 2011, 10:53 PM)
QUOTE(dariofoo @ Mar 12 2011, 01:08 PM)
I read your post well and clear. Did you read my reply? It doesn't matter whether you're first name, second name, third name, second buyer (what kind of terms are those anyway?) OR even if you purchase 1/20000 of an undivided share in the property, you have to fill up the Form CKHT2A and submit it to LHDN.

Your details will be stated in the back of your co-purchaser's CKHT 2A under "maklumat pemeroleh yang lain" and vice versa.

Each purchaser fills up an individual CKHT 2A to be submitted to LHDN.

If your lawyer did not prepare an individual Form CKHT2A for you to sign, then he's a ..... 

And that's the bottom line, compadre 
hi Dario

just wondering if the following can be deducted against the RPGT payable for sale of property ;-

1) renovation cost
2) legal fee
3) Bank interest
4) maintenance
5) interior furnishing ie furniture, electrical items, lightings etc..

as property is sold as fully furnished...

what else if any?

Thanks
*
- renovation cost - must have receipts
- legal fees - must have receipts - both when buying and selling.
- bank interest - debatable - some lawyers do it, some don't. Can just put it in. If LHDN accept, then ok.
- interior furnishing ie furniture, electrical items, lightings etc

* normally only fixtures to the property will be allowed as deductibles (kitchen cabinets, wardrobe, partitions, extensions). Movable items are not allowed. However, I would suggest that you just put every receipt in and if LHDN calls you up to explain, you can say that it is sold fully furnished. It is up to them whether they allow it as a deductible.

Others:
- stamp duty on MOT
- agent commission (when selling)
- maintenance fees, sinking fund, fire insurance, service charge - just put it all in.

icon_rolleyes.gif




TSdariofoo
post Sep 7 2011, 04:21 PM

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QUOTE(jessy123 @ Sep 6 2011, 11:03 PM)
hi Dario

if there is a discrepancy between the S&P and title with regards to the balance of years on a leasehold property, which one should
be taken as the right one? Title ?
*
Title.


QUOTE(jessy123 @ Sep 6 2011, 11:03 PM)
If so, Is it then necessary to have the S&P rectified before I sell the prop?
*
No need, as long as correct information is reflected in the new SPA. icon_rolleyes.gif
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post Sep 7 2011, 04:47 PM

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QUOTE(daph84 @ Sep 6 2011, 10:58 PM)
Dear Dario,

I would like to know the steps for refinance a property with title. Then i found this, can you please guide me the steps? Thanks alot.  smile.gif
*
1. Sign letter of offer and loan doc.
2. Ex-bank issue redemption statement on outstanding balance payable.
3. Current bank lodges caveat upon title (varies from bank to bank)
3. Current bank pay redemption sum to ex-bank (and forwards Discharge of Charge for execution)
4. Ex-bank returns original docs to current bank with Discharge of Charge, Original Title and other original docs.
5. Submission of FA for adjudication
7. Payment of stamp duty for FA.
8. Presentation for registration of Withdrawal of Private Caveat, Discharge of Charge, and new Charge with current bank.
9. Lawyer advises bank to drawdown (release balance loan sum) and hands over original title, original docs, and other duly registered docs as in para 9 above for bank's safekeeping.
10. You get $$$ from refinancing.

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Sep 7 2011, 04:47 PM
TSdariofoo
post Sep 7 2011, 09:23 PM

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QUOTE(ken8120 @ Sep 7 2011, 05:07 PM)
i sold 1 property .joint name with my bro.and ask for RPGT exemption .next time if my bro want to sell his own property can he apply for RPgt exemption ?
*
No he can't. Exemption can only be used once, even though it is for a half-share.

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