From the Purchaser's side. No additional legal fees is allowed to be charged for presentation of MOT. It's part of scaled fees.

Sorry all, have been busy. Will answer all by tmr afternoon, latest

You mean submitted for presentation for registration right? If so, yes it would be submitted concurrently.

Cash buyer? If so, then it goes to buyer's lawyer. If got loan it goes to the financier's solicitors to be submitted together with the charge.

Cannot. Preparation of MOT is part of the scaled fees. As such, your SPA lawyer will be involved with the MOT. It cannot be separated.

Yes, you settle it first with the developer progressively, until all progressive payments which encompasses the differential sum is exhausted. Then you need to buzz your loan lawyer to ''resurrect" the sleeping file and do the necessary to advise the bank to do the drawdown of the loan sum.

Not all banks require their full panel law firms to do it. Most banks allow the SPA lawyer to do the loan on an ad hoc basis, provided the firm qualifies the requirements as set by the bank, and each bank differs in policy. So you can first find out if your SPA lawyer qualifies to do ad hoc (and if he is interested to do it also). If they qualify, all is good. If can't, then check with the bank as to which firm they can recommend. You can ask for a list of their panel lawyers. You can take the list and ask around if anyone has used the services of a firm on the list, and if service is good, then go ahead.

If you deem that the fees are too high you can:
1) Write to Bar Council to complain and insist that the lawyer be paid only peanuts; and
2) Do the loan documentation on your own.

No problem on your side as the price is lower, not higher. So the vendor has to secure the other 8k, probably with a supplementary letter. Just make sure that there is proper acknowledgement.

It won't affect the bank valuation as the bank would not look much at the purchase price.

Even if you inflate it (as what some ppl do to try to get a higher loan), the bank will not give you a loan if it thinks that the valuation does not match the price.

So in your case, wouldn't it be easier to get a valuation as the price is lower?

In any event, the difference is only 8k so I doubt if it will matter much.

Scaled fees are the same. Probably it's stamp duty on the loan doc which makes it higher. If you're buying from developer and there's no indiv title then stamp duty doesn't kick in yet.

If you're in doubt why not insist for a note of charges and compare breakdown of fees? Nothing complicated. It's your right to do so.

You can write it yourself. It is not compulsory for you to appoint a lawyer to issue it. But make sure that you write it properly, as an improper demand would be a bane more than a boon in legal proceedings in Court, should the matter drag on to that stage.

With or without title?

That's the thing - you can't quantify the damages as you did not suffer any actual loss. You need to prove your loss. If there was no parking lot available and you had to rent out another owner's lot, then yes, you can quantify the damage suffered, i.e. rental x number of days = loss suffered.

In this case another lot was offered to you, albeit at a further distance from the lift. What loss have you suffered which can be quantified? Hope you get my point. You can get a lawyer (and i'm sure there's a lot out there) who can promise you the world and convince you that you can get lots of damages, but at the end of the day, I'm of the opinion that if you can't quantify it, you can't claim for it.

Inconvenience, extra walking distance, anger, frust, stress, mental anguish, distress etc etc is all just hogwash and no judge will entertain a claim for that.

As such, your primary claim would have to be for specific performance, i.e. to assert for ownership of lot A. Damages would only be a remedy if specific performance is impossible.

That is all the opinion I can render. If you wish to go further in this you'd better seek proper legal advice from an actual lawyer

All the best. Do keep us updated if you proceed further in this case.

1. Yes, same scaled legal fees.
2. At the moment, you only pay stamp duty upon your loan doc. You don't pay stamp duty upon the MOT as there's no MOT at the moment. So there's no stamp duty on the SPA side, except nominal stamping fees for the SPA, though.
3. Yes, of course. In any event, it's for the bank to decide, not you. So if the bank is ok with it, then there ought not to be any problem.

Nominal stamp duty means RM10/copy. Sames goes for duplicate copies of your loan agreement, DOA and PA. All attracts RM10 nominal stamp duty.

When individual title is out then you would have to execute the MOT and at the same time execute a Charge in favour of the bank. At that stage the DOA and PA would have no further effect.

* you did not state if the vendor has a lawyer, if vendor does not have a lawyer, then anything which mentions vendor's lawyer will be done by purc lawyer.
* you also did not state if purc has separate loan lawyer, so if there's no loan lawyer, then anything which mentions loan lawyer will be done by purc lawyer.


Upon release of first drawdown - to redeem vendor's loan
- Vendor's lawyer will forward cheque together with deed of receipt and reassignment (RnR) to bank
- Bank executes deed of RnR and returns all original docs to vendor's lawyer
- Once the RnR is dated, the Purc's lawyer will date the DOA (deed of assignment) and send it to LHDN for adjudication
- Once DOA has been assessed Purc's law
. Purc sol sends DOA for adjudication followed by stamping.
- Purc sol serves Notice of Assignment to developer and get it endorsed.
- Purc sol sends DOA and all ori docs to loan sol
- Loan sol advises for drawdown of balance loan sum
. Payment of loan sum/balance purchase price to vendor and hand over of vacant possession.

If there's a delay it could be at the adjudication of DOA by purc's side. Normally that is the case.

Just get a copy of all correspondence between the parties - lawyers, banks, LHDN and you can see the turnover time and locate the delay.

If vendor has existing loan, particulars of the charge/deed of assignment would need to be inserted in the SPA as well.

Hi Jessy,

Toyed with the idea awhile ago, but then there's too many situations and scenarios to list down that in the end, it'll probably confuse the reader. Or even confuse me.

So far the examples you gave:
"prop with and without title, leasehold and freehold, charged and uncharged"

Yes, that's true.

Other scenarios to consider:
Vendor - local, foreigner, company? Different flowchart again.
Purchaser - local, foreigner, company? Also another different flowchart.

Purchase from developer? Subsale? - also different steps involved.

Buying with cash? Or taking loan? Taking 90% loan, 100% loan? Or less than 90%? Government loan?

Type of loan? Conventional? Islamic? Ah long loan?

Must still consider how many lawyers are involved - one lawyer acting for purchaser and purchaser's financier? two lawyers - one for purchaser and another for the purchaser's financier? or three lawyers - one for each party? Different steps for each situation. That is where things get complicated a bit. Who does what? Which lawyer does this and which lawyer does that? For subsale, it is not 100% fixed.

End result:

Ever bothered to read your SPA? Everything is there. If you don't understand, you should ask your lawyer.

If you still don't understand after your lawyer has explained to you - ask your lawyer to do one flowchart for you. Simple.

If you still don't understand after the flowchart has been prepared by your lawyer..then

It's not rocket science for your lawyer to do a flowchart based on the facts and scenarios of your case.

You're paying him fees anyway. Unless you demanded for a discount, so in that case you seriously can't complain.

Bullied? Your rights are stated in the SPA and in the loan documentation. Spare some time to read it and probably then, you'll be enlightened.

The Bar Council has no right or jurisdiction to demand anyone to pay any penalty. If you as the purchaser thinks that the lawyer delayed the matter, then you sue the law firm in a civil court and claim for indemnity of the penalty paid. BC will not intervene.

Your SPA lawyer can only charge you max 25% of the scaled fees. If you appoint another lawyer it will be max 50% of the scaled fees.

It's not easy to prepare your own MOT. I doubt if you can find the template for the MOT. I've never heard of someone who has prepared it on their own.

You can try your luck to ask in the open forum itself to see if anyone has done it before on their own.

Good luck.

Law firm - vendor's law firm, or direct to vendor upon vendor's request.

Lawyer name? I hope the lawyer didn't request you to do that as that is very unethical. Unless by some coincidence the vendor is a lawyer?

With all due respect, you can't resolve/solve a delay. A delay has already happened. You need to find out which party caused the delay and why it was not prevented.

You're the only one who does not have the mood to read the SPA and try to understand it. The SPA is the most important document in the whole transaction. That is why you appoint a lawyer to do it and you pay legal fees. I suppose when your car breaks down you also would not have the mood to dig up for the user manual and try to see how to pinpoint and solve the problem? Is my analogy not correct?

Your SPA will clearly denote the duties and responsibilities of the parties in the transaction. You want to solve the problem but you don't want to read up on the solution? You ask your lawyer to explain but you find little comfort in that to solve the delay? If you don't want or try to understand what he is explaining, how do you expect to find a solution?

Can you see the contradictions in your statements there,brother?

What's your beef? I answered your question and told you what the BC can do. You take umbrage at my straightforward answer to your question? In fact, you did not even ask a question, you made a statement beginning with, "From what I gather.."

So I merely corrected you and told you the exact position.

Of course you have the right to complaint to the Bar Council - and seek redress (not regress). However, the BC would not make such an order as you had stated in your statement. Your remedy is at the civil court. So now you're telling that you don't have the desire to sue. So in that case, just bite the bullet and bear the penalty yourself. End of story,mate.

It's only a 10-day,brother. I've even seen 100 days delay and yet, parties keep a cool head and try to resolve the problem.

I've given you the solution so it's up to you whether you want to follow it or not. Since you deem that my answers to you are not good enough, I humbly suggest that you open a new topic in the open forum itself and get some answers. Surely there are more experts out there than Despicable Me in this lonely outpost.

I wish you all the best.

I see.

Yes that can be done.

In that case, why don't you go back to the law firm who did your SPA and appoint them to prepare the MOT on your behalf. The legal fees would only be 25% of the applicable scaled fees. If you go to another law firm it will be 50% of the scaled fees.

Good luck