thanks for the note bro the discount might be some form of personal arrangement made in lieu of the property deal. I've removed the discount portion for everyone's benefit. I agree that disbursement is a bit steep. As u pointed out, the reason is pretty obvious Lol, nonetheless, am bit concerned on the below fees.

1. Facility Agreement, RM 850.00 - Im sure this is justified but for RM850??
2. Land search RM 30.00 - The s&p legal fees (which is borne by the developer) would have covered land search. Why the double charge?
3. Power of Attorney RM 65.00 - Same as land search. Double charge.
4. Purchase of Documents RM 200.00 - Am sure tons of docs are prepared/vetted by solicitors. but what will be procured for RM200?
5. Transport to Land Office, Stamping Office, High Court and etc. RM 150.00 - A bit steep I think, considering that every related offices is within the same state (except probably High Court).

Haha. You read my mind as to the reason why the disbursements are steep?

You will notice that in most of the queries in this topic or even in the open forum, the disbursements are always 'hiked up' when the client requests for a you-know-what from the solicitor in relation to the legal fees. So you put two and two together and you get the picture la ya. No need to elaborate. It's like going to the casino - the house always wins

End of discussion with regard to that.

Now, with regard to the other stuff:

1. Facility Agreement, RM 850.00 - Im sure this is justified but for RM850??

Yes, it is ad valorem duty - 0.5% of the loan sum. Fixed by law.

2. Land search RM 30.00 - The s&p legal fees (which is borne by the developer) would have covered land search. Why the double charge?

Depends. Some banks require a new search to be done once the MOT and Charge has been presented for registration. Some don't and can rely on the earlier search which was conducted.
If no second search is conducted, then the client can ask for a refund for disbursements not incurred.

3. Power of Attorney RM 65.00 - Same as land search. Double charge.
Registration fees are also fixed. If the client is unhappy, then he ought to ask for a copy of the official receipt at the end of the day to see if it tallies up.

4. Purchase of Documents RM 200.00 - Am sure tons of docs are prepared/vetted by solicitors. but what will be procured for RM200?

It is to 'purchase' it from the Bank. Weird, but all Banks 'sell' the Facilities Agreement to the purchaser although same is always downloaded from the bank's website and paper, stationery,etc is all borne by the solicitor (who will claim it from the client).
The Bank actually incur nothing in terms of the facilities agreement, but they still charge for it.

But when you send the docs to them for execution, you would have to pay a sum which ranges from RM100 - 200, depending on the bank. Ridiculous, I know, but that's the way things are.

Just make sure that the client is not being overcharged for it. Maybe it is RM100 but the firm may always quote the max figure - i.e RM200 for all transactions. If there is excess, it must be refunded.).


5. Transport to Land Office, Stamping Office, High Court and etc. RM 150.00 - A bit steep I think, considering that every related offices is within the same state (except probably High Court).

Client would've been charged RM150 for transport in the quote for S&P as well, so it's a double whammy. No comments here, as I had stated above, there is a reason for it.

Cheers,mate!

Okay, dariofoo,... heard you,.. I'll check on the progress with those "self-construct purchasers". There should have been some movement by now.

Hi dariofoo, regarding the issue of housemate not paying rental..

in this instance, if one were to write a demand letter, but the tenant is not around to receive it (as he didn't go home). He could claim he didn't receive the notification?

And in the instance that he did receive and still refuse to pay, any idea what's the next step?

Hi all good day!
This is my first time buying a 2 storey landed house leasehold.

The agent say that the deposit/booking fee is 3.6% instead of 2%. I've read through the post of this thread n it seems it's a standard 2%. The agent told me that it's the vendor special request.

Is this legitimate ?

Yes, it is. The 2% booking deposit followed by 8% balance deposit and further 90% balance purchase price is just a customary and standard practice in conveyancing.

Every letter of offer to purchase is an individual contract which is personal between the vendor and the purchaser - there is no fixed rule or law to it. It depends on the free will and mutual agreement of the parties concerned.

There have been cases where the vendor immediately demands for 10% deposit upfront as well and gave the purchaser xxxx days to finalise and sign the S&P! [speaking from personal experience ]

But you must be careful when you sign the letter of offer to purchase. In the circumstances that parties do not proceed to sign the S&P within xxx number of days due to default of purchaser, the vendor will be entitled to forfeit the said deposit.

Perhaps you can insist the the deposit to be forfeited in such scenarios would be 2% instead of 3.6%.

I would advise you to insist for a clause whereby if the parties do not proceed to sign the S&P within xxx number of days due to default of vendor, the vendor must return the whole of the said deposit together with a sum equivalent to the said deposit as agreed liquidated damages to the purchaser.

This is to protect your interest in the event the vendor decides to back off. Don't let him off the hook by merely refunding the deposit to you.

If the vendor is being difficult, then you would have to consider whether to still proceed with the transaction and put in the deposit. If the vendor is difficult at this early stage, most likely he will be difficult throughout the duration of the S&P which parties would thereafter enter into.

The ball is in your court now. Weigh all your options before deciding what is best, keeping in mind all future possibilities and eventualities.

Cheers

Thanks!

Can I prepare a cheque which dated after the 14 working days? This is to safeguard my interest as well

Was there a sub-tenancy agreement between the sub and the main tenant? If yes, then notice to the last stated address therein by ordinary post or by hand would be sufficient service.

If there was no agreement, then it becomes complicated. There is no remedy in writing to protect the main tenant in such circumstances, as the main tenant still has they duty to pay the lump sum rental to the landlord, irrespective whether the sub has paid the main tenant in time or not.

If the sub received the notice and refuses to pay, the remedy would be to get the lawyer to initiate legal proceedings to obtain an eviction order against the sub. If the sub still refuses to vacate after the Court order has been issued and served on him, the lawyer would then initiate enforcement proceedings whereby the Court bailiff (together with a police officer and locksmith) would attend at the premises and break the room lock and remove the items belonging to the sub from the room.

What happens to the items? You can't even throw it away. You have to keep it someplace safe and there have been situations where the landlord had to rent a store to keep the tenant's movable property ( in this case - gym equipment) after the Court order was issued and enforced.

The main tenant would bear all the costs for the above and claim it from the sub after all is done - probably when the sub turns up to claim back his stuff (and beg for forgiveness too, perhaps? )

Now you would ask me, 'Is there a less complicated and cost-effective [read:cheaper' alternative?'

Yes, you may try to call and persuade the sub. If he refuses to answer or meet up, go to his college or work place and confront him. If you have no idea where he studies or works, try contacting the family members, especially parents of the sub. Perhaps lodge a police report detailing what has transpired and show it to them. Perhaps they can cough up the sum on his behalf and settle things.

The above are long shots which may or may not work - but those options are only because the main tenant did not have the hindsight and diligence to prepare a sub-tenancy agreement with the sub. Probably insert a clause to allow the main tenant to break the lock if rent is not paid by xxxxxx for xxxx months and after notice has been given via email (easier mah) to the sub. A background check with full particulars of relatives and next-of-kin would be useful as well. Another idea is to get a guarantor to take responsibilty to pay the rent on the sub's behalf (perhaps his parents?)

Now you would ask me, 'What if after I do all the above to the best of my efforts I still can't find the tenant who has just simply vanished from the face of the earth without any trace. I've spent so much on legal fees and storage rental costs - how long must I bear the costs to keep his stuff?'

Well, if you have exhausted all your legal remedies and you are very very sure that this person has totally given up, would never come back for his things and sue you for trespass to goods, then you do what you need to do la with his stuff.

Pandai-pandai aje la

But do that as a last resort! A lot of people take the law into their own hands and then pay the price when faced with a hard-knuckled tenant who vows revenge (don't rule it out, as it has happened before!)

Moral of the (long-winded) story - always be prudent and prepare an agreement. Don't be pennywise, poundfoolish.

Hope the above helps. Cheers

We should call them 'purchasers-cum-sub-contractors/developers'

Yes, do keep us updated. Hopefully more movements than mere bowel movements

Aiyoh, where can give post-dated cheque? I doubt if the vendor will accept. The booking deposit also will normally be issued in favour of the agent's real estate agency, or the agent himself. As such, it has to be cleared. The agent himself will object to it!

Highly unlikely, mate! Smart thinking though

20,000 views for this thread already!

Hi dariofoo, I'm posting this on behalf of the poor flight of a friend.

She put a downpayment 2% (through agency) to purchase a condo unit. Both parties has signed the offer letter. Seller mentions wants to use buyer's same lawyer to save cost. Seller also agreed to give 21 working days to the buyer to draw up the S&P.

So in the midst of drawing up the S&P, I think it was 2 weeks later after signing offer letter, the owner sms my friend saying 'we dont want to sell anymore. sorry'. Just like that.

Buyer immediately called up the agent to ask about this matter. The agent told her will try to find out what's wrong.. etc. In the end, almost nearing the 21 working days, the agent just said.. 'unable to contact seller'.

So she actually wrote a demand letter to the seller asking for compensation. But so far, the seller did not reply.

In this instance, how should she proceed? By the way, agent already pass her back the 2% deposit, which she has not bank-ed in yet.

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Added on March 15, 2011, 9:01 pmyes thank you very much for the legal advises!

This post has been edited by @Adele: Mar 15 2011, 09:01 PM

Thanks dariofoo for the clarification.

Just called up the agent and confirm the matter, and she mentioned that the clause "vendor compensate the buyer in case vendor withdrawal" is a standard and will be in the letter of offer.

Same goes to S&P clause, which the vendor will compensate back the 10% in case he withdraw.

Lol, I'm no mind reader, certainly not a mind freak probably share the same sentiment as yours. at the end, its not the highs or the lows of the fees.. its a matter of principle behind it. As far as disbursements goes (and being Malaysian myself ) I would think its just and 'fair' given the magnitude of such requests to the solicitors. After all, its probably a win-win. Purchasers wants it fast, Solicitors wants to get it done. Strike a balance and arrive amicably at mid-point with some consideration is fine, i think. Personally, I think its best not to ponder over it as long as principles were adhered.

Anyway, I shall advise my friend to put an eye on item 2 & 3. For item 4 & 5, what can I say My friend could find out more from them but I'm sure the house will win! Really, thanks Dario for putting it all together as always, cheers and have a good day

Once the letter of offer to purchase has been executed and the 2% paid, there is a binding contract to sell and buy. Both parties can enforce it against the other in event of a refusal to proceed.

Don't accept the 2% as it may constitute acceptance of rescission (in layman't term - cancellation/revocation) of the contract.

Is there a clause in the letter that the vendor has to pay an additional penalty as compensation? Most of the time, it would be an equivalent sum of the booking deposit - so the vendor has to pay you 2% + further 2% - if you accept that as compensation, then you can't proceed any further and the matter comes to an end.

Otherwise, advise the lawyer to proceed with a civil suit to seek specific performance of the contract - make sure that your friend really really wants this unit and you must be prepared for all eventualities as the vendor may not act in good faith and there have been cases (similar scenario to auction purchases) where the house is almost, if not completely thrashed. defaced, stripped of fixtures,etc by the vendor who then disappears without a trace.

Advise her to sit down with her lawyer and get the lawyer to explain the pros and cons and eventualities - before deciding to proceed. Or else, just accept the 2% refund, forget it and proceed to look for another unit. Who knows, maybe that one was not meant to be huh?

Cheers.

Good. Read it thoroughly before you sign.

There's a legal saying in Latin - caveat emptor - let the buyer beware.

Cheers.

Alright,mate. Glad to help.

Hope all goes well for your friend.

Cheers.

The cheque she already took back. Does the constitue as acceptance? She didn't bank in yet.

Yes, there is a clause in the letter. But now seller is trying to ignore this, and I guess refuse to pay. She doesn't want to buy the house anymore, but she is asking for compensation. Hence, the demand letter to the seller, which the seller ignored.

Her question is this, the S&P is not signed as seller can't be contacted. However the 21 days is already over. Can she still seek compensation or lawsuit against the seller? She did ask around, it seems she can caveat the property or something.

Appreciate your advise, thank you.

Dunno whether is there anyone can help here. Just try my luck and share my bad experience here.

I was eyed on a condo and decide to buy the unit. Owner and i deal all the way through agent. Owner is located in UK and this property was take care by his brother who stay in KL. I've paid deposit 3% and sign for the booking forms, for the owner part agent email owner the document to sign and then owner email back to us. Once this booking form done, we proceed to lawyer for SPA. We both (owner and i) using the same lawyer. 2 weeks later, lawyer ready with thr SPA and owner rushing lawyer to pass the document to his relative who is going to visit owner is few days later, so lawyer just pass over the document. Once the document reach UK which is owner's hand, owner suddenly decide not to sell the condo to me. Owner verbally or sms inform the lawyer and agent as well.

Ok, since owner black out and advise from lawyer is owner need to write a letter said that he want to terminate this deal with me. But owner slowly disappear which lawyer and agent unable to get him at all. I suppose to claim back my deposit and compensation from owner but now i do not know what to do at all. Lawyer did write a letter to owner which giving 2 weeks time to response back to us, if he fail to do so we will automatically assume he cancel the deal.

What i heard from agent is my 3% deposit is still with the agent. Agent agree to give it back to me only when owner write the termination letter to me. And now agent trying to avoid the responsibility to reimburse compensation for me from the owner. Agent just throw me the words with if u wan to get back the compensation you go find lawyer and sue owner. I was wonder is it agent suppose to help me reimburse compensation from owner???? I did talk to agency's principle, at first he seem willing to help on this case but after he discuss with the agent, he feedback me the same things like the agent. Ask me go find lawyer sue the owner if i want get back my compensation. Principle said if huge amount then he will try to help me fight back my compensation. Even my 3% compensation is just RM7k doesn't mean i cant get the same services like those who buying 1million property??

Now i was thinking to go association to complain about this agency with this kind of services their provided to me. Anyone can give me some advise what should i do to get back my compensation? Very appreciate if you can share to me. Thanks!

This post has been edited by lolikid: Mar 16 2011, 03:44 PM

Two options now:

1) Sue for the balance 2% sum as compensation;
2) Sue for specific performance to compel the vendor to sell the property based on the letter of offer.

If you go for option 1, then keep the cheque and go for the balance sum. Remember, you can't caveat the property if you go for this option as you do not have any caveatable interest which you are actively pursuing over the property - your damages can be calculated and has nothing to do with the land.

If option 2, then return the cheque, and sue for specific performance. Once the suit is filed, lodge a caveat over the property, as ultimately, you have a caveatable interest over the property and you need to keep it caveated until the completion of the suit.

Be wary about lodging caveats - a lot of people do not understand the effect of it and the repercussions upon you if you wrongfully lodge a caveat. They take it lightly and think of it as simply to 'put pressure' on the vendor to settle. That is utter rubbish and will ultimately backfire if you are not pursuing your caveatable interest over the property.

Go back to the letter of offer and read the terms - if it says after 21 days, no S&P is signed, of course the whole things lapses. Whose fault is it? If vendor, then the purchaser will use one of the options above to assert his rights.

That's about it.