We prepared the detail of renovation work and put in the Indonesian particular like passport, work permit, etc and both party signed after the money was paid. Can this be use instead of receipt? Not sure now can get back the Indonesian guy or not coz the renovation done last year.

Yup, normally how much is the charger for the lawyer to submit the CKHT 1a form for seller for join name (2 person)? Is it a standard charge? The lawyer charge me rm400 but another said only rm300??? Is it advisable to submit ourself or by lawyer?


Thanks.

Just called my S&P lawyer to verify the charges. The charges is for registration of MOT. here's the scenario

S&P was signed back in August 2010, suppose to complete after 3+1month, but couldn't complete till today due to delay from vendor. S&P value at RM530k, so registration of MOT is RM400 for Selangor area.

Memo from land office came out on 30th December stating that registration fee will increase by RM100 starting from 3rd Jan 2011, so my lawyer request me to pay the extra RM100. The other RM500 comes in because they have to re-submit the MOT registration fee fro the second time.

Is it true that the registration fee i paid earlier is only valid fro 3 months and after 3 months, i'll have to pay a new fee for the next 3 months?

The RM500 the lawyer is talking about is late registration penalty, and not because "they have to re-submit the MOT registration fee fro the second time".

The MOT is valid for a period of 3 months from its date. If after that, a penalty applies, as stated above.

When it is executed by both parties, the date is left blank. We call it executed in escrow. Normally it is dated upon satisfaction that your financier has released the cheque to redeem the vendor's loan (assuming that it is still encumbered), and sent for adjudication thereafter.

It should not be dated any earlier than that, so as not to bring the 3 month period any earlier than it should.

When did your lawyer's date the MOT and submit if for adjudication?

If they had needlessly dated it earlier than they should, then it is their error and they ought to pay for it, not you.

If the delay is caused by the vendor, ask your lawyer if they can insist that the vendor pays for the late penalty fee.

Bring this up with your lawyer.

If can't get them back then can't help it, I guess. Have to rely on what you have. I can't say for sure as it is for LHDN to decide. You can calculate the expenses incurred but the final decision to accept the expenses as tax-deductible is dependant on LHDN - like personal income tax.

Just put it in and keep your fingers crossed ya.

It is RM300 per person, irregardless whether it is joint name or otherwise. If there are 4 vendors, then it's RM300 X 4 - RM1200.

Perhaps another RM100 was quoted as disbursements? Otherwise....

Have you seen the form? If you're confident to fill it up yourself and submit it yourself, then go ahead.

[quote=dariofoo,Jan 14 2011, 08:58 AM]
What's with the vendor's solicitor? I have a feeling that legal fees have not been paid by vendor so they want the cheque to be in their favour. So that they can bank it in, potong for their fees and then issue balance to vendor. Maybe they are scared that vendor may cabut if cheque in vendor's favour.

For all you know, vendor has no idea what's going on.

Parties can always vary/amend any term of the SPA. Your lawyer ought to know about this. He ought to propose this to the vendor, as a simple amendment to allow the cheque to be issued to the vendor can solve the problem, right?

If vendor's lawyer continue to be difficult then bypass him and go talk to the vendor directly. Surely vendor prefers the cheque to be issued in his favour right?

Don't let this unscrupulous fellows forfeit your 10%. Transaction almost complete, so don't let it go to waste.

You can't 'launch' a case against the bank. They prepared an agreement and you signed it out of your own free will and with knowledge. They will not vary the terms for you. Bank loan documentation are standard documents.

You loan solicitor has the duty to explain to you the terms and conditions of the agreement. However, you signed it in the end. You can't turn around now and say that you didn't understand the contents of the agreement. It'll just make you out to be a fool, if you do that.

The only remedy now, and an easy one at that, is to vary the SPA.

For the moment, be still and see what card your lawyer wants to play first. Keep this info as your trump card. If your lawyer's short on ideas, only then you tell him ya.

Keep us updated.

Good luck.


Happy belated birthday, dariofoo
some updates on my case, apparently you were right, it was the idea from the vendor's solicitor, i think the vendor also being controlled by her solicitor. My SPA lawyer advised me to change my financier and and we are now still waiting from my current financier's reply to see whether they are able to amend the clause in order to compliance with the SPA. The worst case scenario would be just cancel the existing the loan agreement and re-apply for a new one, since the loan amount has not drawn down. I do really hope i won't be penalized for any penalty charges, since it's really not my will to cancel the agreement.
Thanks.

THanks a alot for your info.

If we submit ourselves, do we need to pay the tax during submission at the counter? The lawyer said if we didn't let her do, then she will hold the 2% until receive the notification from gov either the tax is clear or no tax then only refund back to us (take about 6 months).

if the house is more than 5 years, is the lawyer still need to hold the 2%?
if the house is less than 5 years, is the lawyer will pay the tax from the 2% for us even we submit ourselves? Or we need to pay ourselve first than claim back the 2%?

A bit confuse....

For the charges, mean if the property is under 2 persons name, then the charges will be rm300x2 - RM600. Wow....is expensive man....I got 2 house is sold, mean have to pay rm1200???

Thanks for the advise so far. Here are the answers to your questions:
1. Transfer cannot be completed is the story that the disbarred lawyer said donkey years ago. Another so called lawyer friend said the same thing too.
2. To my knowledge, the file was never transfered to another lawyer by the BAR council.
3. The 'bank' in question is in fact the m'sian govt. The purchasor is a govt servant.

"If there is no record of presentation, it might lead to several problems:

1) Any claim for ownership of land is subject to a limitation period of 12 years, i.e 12 years from the date your cause of action arises. In this case, it would've lapsed as the property was purchased 22 years ago ;

2) If the vendor now refuses to execute a new MOT to effect the transfer, there is nothing you can do to force him to as limitation has already set in. The Court would not assist you. As such, you'll be stuck with nothing despite having paid the instalments for the past 22 years."

Bro, the information above is indeed interesting. I know of many purcahsers, especially in Malaysia, who bought their properties, but the MOT was never perfected by the developer due to a multitude of reasons.

Are we saying here that if the title was never transferred after 12 Years from the date of signing of the S&P, the land on which the house sits automatically goes back to the developer ?

If you look at section 26 of the Limitation Act it says:

"26. Fresh accrual of action on acknowledgment.

(1) Where there has accrued any right of action to recover land or to enforce a mortgage or charge in respect of land or personal property, and -

(a) the person in possession of the land or personal property acknowledges the title of the person to whom the right of action has accrued; or

(b) in the case of any such action by a mortgage or chargee the person in possession as aforesaid or the person liable for the debt secured by the mortgage or charge makes any payment in respect thereof, whether principal or interest,

the right shall be deemed to have accrued on and not before the date of the acknowledgment or last payment."

In short: If the Developer acknowledges that the land should be transferred to the buyer, whether in a letter or by way of accepting payments from the buyer (whatever the payments may be), the cause of action resets itself. Meaning, the 12 years starts again. In short, as long as you can get the developer to admit in a letter or accept payment of the property pursuant to the S&P to indicate that the property is yours, then you dont have to worry about the 12 year limit.

The key phrase is cause of action. Basically, when you have a Right that you can legally enforce, the time starts ticking on how long you are given to enforce that Right. Example: I sign S&P on 1.1.2010. The MOT is to be execute by 1.1.2011. But by 1.1.2011, it isn't done. This breach of contract gives rise to a cause of action which then means you can enforce the execution of the MOT by suing the seller/vendor of the property. But you have until 1.1.2013 to sue the seller/vendor otherwise your cause of action is time barred.

But, if the seller/vendor acknowledges anytime within the 12 years that the property is yours, then the 12 year limit will keep resetting itself. That burden to show that the time limit hasn't lapsed is the person who is claiming that the property should be transferred to him.

Hope that helps

p/s this is just ad hoc advice and my opinion and is not meant to be legally binding.

Dan, thank you, and appreciated your long write-up very much. Very informative. Bro dario gave a similar opinion earlier, but not exactly the same as yours. I'll hear him out too, before my forwarding my points...

Like I advised you, try to speak directly to the vendor. Inform the vendor what is going on. Small amendment to the S&P will solve things. Vendor can get the balance purchase price faster too.

Things are almost completed. To start again would be a waste of time and resources. You will definitely be penalised by the bank.

This is as far as I can advise you. The ball's in your court now.

Au revoir!

Have you owned the house for more than 5 years?

Govt loan, I see. That makes things even more complicated, i.e to look for the file at the Finance Ministry would be a mess.

Do a title search first and then come back here and update us. I'll advise you more from there.

Ok?

Coming soon. Doing more research first before firing my salvo. My opinion will be very much different from dan's, I can tell you that. Nice of him to bring that section to our attention though. Hat's off to him for that.

hi.. im newbie in property. wanna ask, when is the due date for MOT payment? is it can negotiate with developer if want to pay MOT late (such as after a year of construction progress)?

Bro Dario,.. oh, different opinion from your side, okay, will be waiting. Just wanted to say thank you first, and yes, thanks to Dan too, again.

Come to think of it, this may be related to, well, don't know yet. Waiting for the Bro first.

What I stated was a general principle in relation of that case which I will go into detail more later.

I want to address the factual situation which you stated. Now, in a purchase from a developer, there might not be an individual title issued by the time the keys are handed to you.

Your right as the lawful and beneficial owner is recognised in the S&P AND the Deed of Assignment with your financier which has been endorsed by the developer as well.

When the developer subsequently applies for subdivision and same has been approved, the developer will inform all the purchasers (as well as the purchaser's financiers) that the MOT is ready for execution.

If for example at this stage the purchaser executes the MOT but the developer refuses to do so, your cause of action will accrue (in simpler terms, arise or begin). So your limitation period starts to run from that date of refusal (probably after a letter of demand is sent to the developer and they refuse to comply).

In reality though, there is no reason for the developer to refuse as they want to wash their hands off the property (read: no need to pay quit rent) soonest possible.

With regard to your legal remedy in the event the developer refuses to do so, I think we dealt with this matter in our previous discussion in the earlier pages. Remember?

Hope the above clarifies things.



This post has been edited by dariofoo: Jan 19 2011, 11:36 AM

The stamp duty upon the MOT must be deposited with the lawyer upon signing the S&P (and MOT, assuming that individual title is already out at the date of the S&P).

I doubt if you can ask for extension. If you execute it and it is dated as well as submitted for adjudication, you have to make the payment to LHDN within 30 days from the date of Notice issued by LHDN of the sum payable.

If you pay late, there will be a penalty.

Your MOT would also have to be presented for registration at the land office. That too has a timeline. If late, have to pay penalty again.

I doubt if the developer will allow you to delay payment.

They will question you why you committed to purchase the property without having the reserves to pay for stamp duty on the MOT?

hi all..Please advise me regarding the legal fees for house RM 270K..it this reasonable?


Professional fees on

1) Aggrement - S&P Aggre/transfer RM 2340.00
2) Entry & Withdrawal Private Caveat RM 350.00
3) Filling of CKHT 2A RM 200.00

Gov tax 6% RM 173.40

sub-total RM 3,063.40
Disbursements

1) adjudication RM 10.00
2) OA search RM 50.00
3)title search Rm100.00
4) Travelling expenses/courier charges Rm 300.00
5)Miscellaneous RM 50.00
6)Developers Comfirmation RM 25.00


Registration Fee on

1) Entry to Private Caveat RM 340.00
2) MOT (subject to valuation) RM 100.00

Stamping Fee

1) Agreement- S&P RM 40.00
2) MOT (subject to valuation) RM 4,400.00
Statutory Declaration in support of the entry of Private caveat RM 20.00


sub-total RM 5,435.00

grand total RM 8,498.40

Bro Dario, thank you for the good clarification. In short, I would say that the earlier explanation about the 12 year limitation applies more specifically to Sub-sales, and not to Buying-from-Developers.

Then your subsequent explanation here refers to, or explains more on Buying-from-Developers. - very nice !

On another matter, remember that group of purchasers whose houses were surrendered to them by the developer (officially by letters), and who then took over their 75%-completed houses, finally rebuilt back everything using their (the purchasers') own money ? And subsequently were able to fulfill all conditions of their local authority, till they were awarded the CFO ?

I heard that their MOTs were not completed yet, and there are rumors the developer is thinking of squeezing-out the remaining 25% from the purchasers before signing on the MOT Form. This is really unfair - when the purchasers completed the houses on their own using their own money, now the developer is tryinng to squeeze out this 25% by holding their Land Titles as ransom.

How do they go about this, Bro ? What can these purchasers do now to get back their Land Titles ?