8% per annum upon balance purchase price calculated on daily basis.

Call your mortgage agent and bug him. See what he can do to help. It's very highly unlikely to occur though. What was the nature of the delay?



Why do you say so?

I personally think that it is not the job of the lawyer to call up the mortgage agent. To call up the bank, yes, but not the mortgage agent as you are the direct link to the agent, not the lawyer. There must be some form of chain, for example:

Mortgage agent -> borrower/purchaser (you) -> lawyer -> bank

Of course the bank is linked to the agent and vice versa. However, the gap is there between the lawyer and the agent, and between you and the bank.

As I have advised many times before in this thread, get a copy of the correspondence to locate the source of the delay in the transaction. Don't be hasty and point fingers. If possible, get the lawyer to explain to you the reason for the delay.

It'll be easier once you gather more info to have a better understanding of the situation.

A caveat is lodged upon a title (geran) of a property to lock/block/stop any transfer of the said title to another party. It is an indication of a person claiming a right over the property.

In a normal scenario, a person lodges a caveat when he puts in a deposit [usually 10%] to purchase the property. It may take at least 3 months from the date of the SPA in order for title to be transferred in his favour. In the interim, to stop the vendor from transferring the title to another party and defeat the purchaser's claim, the purchaser will lodge a caveat over the title. With the caveat, it serves two purposes:

1) To stop the registered proprietor of the property from transferring the title to another person; and
2) As a notice to the world at large of the purchaser's beneficial and legal interest in the property (by virtue of him placing the 10% deposit).

A person can only lodge a caveat if he has a caveatable interest over the property. Most of the time this would be like the example given, i.e. it is lodged by the purchaser. A caveat can also be lodged by a person who has obtained judgement against the owner for a certain amount of money. It can be lodged by a financial institution as well.

A person who does not have a caveatable interest over the property but had nonetheless lodged a caveat can be sued by the registered proprietor for unlawful entry of caveat. The caveator would then have to pay damages to the proprietor if he failed to prove the legality of him lodging the caveat.

In your case, there are 5 caveats upon the property. Am sure that one of it is from the owner's financier. The other 4 could be by other creditors. Others have asserted their respective right over the property. It would be the wise thing to back out from it now as it could be problematic to remove the 4 caveats without much hassle and cost, which has to be borne by you, by the way.

I hope the above clarifies things accordingly.



This post has been edited by dariofoo: Nov 26 2011, 12:13 AM

Hi Jessy,

Yes, it is only needed when title is already out.

If it is still under Master Title, there's no reason to worry as the vendor can't do anything - title is still under the developer or proprietor's name [The proprietor in this case refers to the landowner who enters into a JV with the developer].

Here's the thing - it depends on the lawyer in question. There's no hard and fast rule. It depends on the honesty (or knowledge) of the lawyer and how much they have the best interests of their client at heart.

A few scenarios as example to illustrate my point:

1) Property under Master Title

SPA lawyer - no question - no need to lodge caveat.
Loan lawyer - the lawyer can request the bank to waive the requirement to lodge a private caveat over the master title as it is not really needful, as long as the developer (and end-financier-if Master Title still encumbered) gives the relevant undertakings and disclaimers.

2) Property under Individual/Strata Title - property still encumbered by way of Charge created in favour of Vendor's Financier (VF)

SPA lawyer - can advise the client to waive lodgement of caveat as property still encumbered in favout of VF. As such, the vendor can't do anything funny in the interim. However, there are lawyers who just bill the client for it and just lodges the caveat nonetheless.

Loan lawyer - bank would require caveat to be lodged to protect bank's interest. No choice there.

* Imagine if same lawyer for SPA and loan - two caveats lodged and both costs and fees are borne by the purchaser. First one is not really needed, more so if the loan is approved fast, so the bank's caveat is lodged very soon after the SPA is executed. One caveat is all it takes.

3) Property under Individual/Strata Title - property not encumbered

SPA lawyer - should advise client to lodge caveat as property not encumbered.

Loan lawyer - bank would require caveat to be lodged to protect bank's interest. No choice there again. [same as scenario (2)]

* In this case, it would be prudent to lodge a caveat at the first opportunity as the property is unencumbered. However, there can still be a situation like scenario (2), i.e. the bank's caveat can go in early, and thus, saves the purchaser a bit in costs and fees to avoid duplicity of caveats.

Just an idea as to costs of entry/withdrawal of caveat:

Legal fees (fixed):
Entry of caveat - RM200
Withdrawal of caveat - RM150

Disbursements (varies and depends on land office)
Entry of caveat - RM300
Notice - RM20
Withdrawal - RM70
Misc - RM50-100

TOTAL: approx RM800

No, not at all. In some SPAs a clause is inserted whereby the vendor consents to the lodgement of a private caveat. However, even if the clause is not inserted, it is understood and is common practice that the purchaser has a caveatable interest once he pays the 10% downpayment upon execution of SPA.

Your calculation is correct if assuming that the RM100K loan goes straight to the vendor and there is no redemption sum to be paid out to the vendor's financier beforehand.

If there is a redemption sum to be paid, that sum must be deducted from the loan sum of RM100K. So let's say the redemption sum is RM60K - the balance purchase price is only RM40K. So the LPI is calculated on RM40K.

The SPA is subject to approval of loan and subsequent disbursement of the loan by your financier. Only then can you claim a legal status as purchaser.

So technically you can't sell it - but you can inform the developer that you want to back out and perhaps they can cancel your SPA and proceed with a new one with the new purchaser with minimal fuss and some processing/admin fees to be borne by you.

jessy123:


Why are you paying for all this? It's supposed to be borne by vendor. It's the vendor's duty to obtain consent.

You're absolutely right. Thanks.

I misread jessy's post. For some reason I did not see the consent to charge part. Silly me.

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Nov 27 2011, 06:01 PM

My mistake. Take my head off instead!

Thanks again for the timely intervention

Am not sure about the fees for registration of MOT for Johor but what I do know is that for certain land offices, the fees are scaled according to the SPA price (one example is the Kuala Pilah Land Office in N9). So it could be the same method for your case. Perhaps you can directly ask your lawyer as to how they arrived at that figure?

There are no stupid questions bro

Four copies will be sent for stamping - all four are identical as to contents - one will then be marked with a chop as ORIGINAL while the other three will be marked as DUPLICATE.

So, the blank part which you are referring to would be in all copies, not just your duplicate.

With regard to EPF, they would mostly just check on the purchase price, property particulars, the parties to the agreement and cross-refer with the letter of offer from your bank to see if the details match. I doubt if they will make an issue out of the omission. Keep your fingers crossed they don't notice it.

If you're taking a bank loan, then the bank will retain the original until the loan has been subsequently redeemed wherein all original documents will be returned to you. In the interim, you can keep the duplicate which is duly stamped and has full effect in law.

Thanks for the info. That's pretty expensive!

Consent to transfer - to be obtained by vendor at vendor's cost.
Consent to charge - to be obtained by purchaser at purchaser's cost (unless cash purchaser)

Consent to transfer is applied first. However, if you have a scenario as follows:

a) Vendor is unrepresented and vendor authorises purchaser's solicitor to apply for consent to transfer;
b) Purchaser's solicitor is handling the loan documentation; and
c) Loan has already been approved with letter of offer out,

the lawyer can make apply for consent to transfer and consent to charge in one application.

Deposit - RM30K, lawyers fee - do use the legal fees calculator at the first page to calculate. Don't forget stamp duty also.

With regard to your query as to whether you can get a full loan you might want to check with a mortgage consultant instead.

When there's no title, Deed of Assignment (DOA) is the document which proves transfer to beneficial ownership of the property from the vendor to you.

Are you sure that they require the DOA? Unless you're buying by way of cash? From what I understand, they require the SPA, letter of confirmation from the developer and letter of offer from your bank as supporting documents.

* am assuming that this is a subsale and you're taking a loan.

http://www.kwsp.gov.my/index.php?hdl=bin&rp=1286

Depends on the land office in question. Different land offices, different policy. Shah Alam Land Office guarantees it to be issued in 3 working days.

If you're taking a loan, proof of presentation of the MOT (via official receipt) is sufficient to advise the bank to drawdown the balance loan sum. There is no need to wait for the new original title. That can be collected and handed over to the bank later.

Some vendors are kind enough to allow a get-out clause whereby part of the deposit will be refunded if the purc fails to obtain a loan within a certain period of time - say 1 month from the date of the SPA.

Some vendors are the opposite - like the one in your case - or most probably it's the lawyer

If you've got a loan approved then I suppose there's nothing to worry about in this clause. If you don't and if you're not confident, then what it means is that you have to foot up the balance purchase price in cash or risk your 10% deposit being forfeited if you fail to complete the SPA in time.


This is unfair. It is normal practice for the vendor to be penalised if he delays to surrender VP to the purc after receiving the full purchase price. The effect of the deletion is that the vendor can just delay after the expiration of 5 working days and would not be penalised for it.

You must insist for the deleted part to be included. In fact, 5 working days is very gracious. The norm is always 3.

Good luck.

Get a copy from your lawyer,chief.