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English Clubs Liverpool Football Club - The Kop Talks 2010, DONE DEAL: WELCOME NESV,JOHN HENRY

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cherroy
post Sep 26 2010, 02:37 AM

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QUOTE(digilife @ Sep 26 2010, 01:35 AM)
come-on man
how many games did Arsene Wanger lost till he mould a good first 11 in first season at Arsenal?

lets be patience, we wont end the season lower than 7, mark this line

Added on September 26, 2010, 1:36 am

See, this a Arsenal fansi abt the black cats thumbup.gif
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Hope you are right at the end of season, which I doubt so with this kind of performance.

Again I said many time, it is the performance that worry the most, not the result.
You cannot possible win many games with this kind of display.
cherroy
post Sep 26 2010, 02:39 AM

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QUOTE(leaF @ Sep 26 2010, 02:03 AM)
conclusion is we need start play 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 with Gerrard takes the Attacking Midfield role , IMO that is combination of torres+gerrard for our second goal but I dont think this will happen since our center midfield now so poor
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If Gerrard taking AM, then no one bossing or in charge and take control of midfield area, ended up both of them isolated at front, because there is no CM that can dictate and control the game. Ain't we just saw how the result of match performance with Poulsen+Lucas combination in the previous few matches?
cherroy
post Sep 27 2010, 10:39 AM

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QUOTE(digilife @ Sep 27 2010, 07:59 AM)
one of the reason tat our backs are tat back is because the back 4 wanted to put their name into the score sheet and left the defence wif gaping hole during counter attack by the opponent doh.gif

they are slow and inaccurate when coming back for defensive work, they made Reina look BAD
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It is the tactic and formation play issue.
I believe this is instruction given. Just my guess.

When you play Poulsen+Lucas, aka 2 known for defensive duty and Kyut/Cole on the RM/LM, obviously there is no winger system play, so it rely on fullback to provide the width through fullback overlapping and Poulsen or Lucas as cover for them. It is more a like a 4-2-3-1 system, or a make shift of 4-5-1, with more central playing system only, which lack of width through midfield.
It is good in theory, but practically until now, leave lot of space of opponent to attack through the width area. It is always difficult for defenders, if opponent keep on attack through the flank that with pace.
The best defend is bombard opponent goal and control the match and match tempo through your midfield. If keep on let oppponent bombard your goal, no matter what top class defender you have, it is matter of time of conceding only.
Since the season start, apart of every match's of 15-20 min period, the rest of time, Liv just let opponent to attack without taking control of the situation.
That's why I said it had been an awful/fearful experience for supporters to watch every live game telecast. As you know there is always high chance conceded a goal or 2.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Sep 27 2010, 10:41 AM
cherroy
post Sep 27 2010, 10:46 AM

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After 6 matches played, the top 4 position is taking shape, while Liv is on relegation fight in 16th. sweat.gif

Added on September 27, 2010, 10:54 am
QUOTE(Zan81 @ Sep 27 2010, 10:46 AM)
Exactly. We have similar problem also at Arsenal, where our fullbacks are exposed all the time, as evident by our loss to WBA last weekend.

I'm not sure about the stats in the Liverpool game, but Arsenal had almost 65% possession and still lost. This means, that its not about how Arsenal got bombarded, but rather how Arsenal got sucker punched on the counter attack.

Your part about bombard opponent goal and control the match is easier said than done though. I would think it would be better for teams playing this formation to defend from the front and break up play in midfield when possession is lost.

The DMs play a vital role in this, as you pointed out rightfully. There needs to be proper discipline in tracking back by the wingers as well.
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Your Arsenal situation is not that worry. Sucker punch does happen occassionally, sometime due to luck factor as well.
But as long as you are controlling the match, and always probing opponent goal, and have idea how to open up opponent defence, then still ok.

But currently once Liv has possession, they have no idea on the ball in general, except a few players like Gerrard and Torres only. They only passed around defender and midfield, which give a lot of time to opponent defender to prepare themselves and reposition back. Then it becomes very difficult for you to penetrate opponent once they get ready, while on your side, there is little off the ball running that create space for themselves and midfield to pass the ball.

Goal created, a lot of time due to off the ball running by players which open up opponent defence.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Sep 27 2010, 10:54 AM
cherroy
post Sep 27 2010, 02:05 PM

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QUOTE(epolmuse @ Sep 27 2010, 12:52 PM)
should try and play 4-4-2, when they put on ngog we played much much better and controlled the game...

somehow torres seems lazy and lack the desire to play
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From the performance, and player form, Ngog deserve to start.

It is always bad man-management if somene performs very well, yet cannot get a start. If a player performs well, yet keep on being denied a starting place, it will only affect the player's confidence, future and development to be a much better player.

Sometimes, Torres looks too frustate which affecting his performance as well. A cool mind is needed to perform at the top level.

cherroy
post Sep 27 2010, 03:13 PM

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QUOTE(solstice818 @ Sep 27 2010, 02:53 PM)
CHARLES SALE: Liverpool chairman Martin Broughton could land £500k bonus if he helps sell club

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-1...l#ixzz10i6pHS6J
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I do believe there are buyers out there for a club like Liverpool, but the main issue is always the price tag.


cherroy
post Sep 27 2010, 05:46 PM

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QUOTE(Ichighost @ Sep 27 2010, 05:26 PM)

The season just begin... for me Liverpool should try to get as many points as you can even one draw point...if by january there is no hope for top four then RH should start to sell unwanted players...and promote youngsters..buy saveral promising young players...from the fund raise from the selling of the unwanted players...fight for mid table at the same time rebuild new Lvpool...

notworthy.gif Respect Liverpool..My Dad's Favourite Club...
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No money, no talk.
Modern days football, no money, no good new players coming, no new stadium to generate more revenue.

You can raise as many as superstar or good young players, but if the club is not financial strong, it becomes a breed club to born the superstar or good players for other bigger club only, as your 'pond' is too small for a big fish, aka you cannot hold on your bright youngster that are courting by others big club.

Forever stuck at middle class.

So strong in term of financial is very crucial for the club to success.
cherroy
post Sep 28 2010, 10:48 AM

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QUOTE(solstice818 @ Sep 27 2010, 07:19 PM)
Roy has nothing positive to say...

Liverpool manager Roy Hodgson believes his players are struggling to come to terms with the "enormous expectation" of the club's supporters.

http://teamtalk.com/news/2483/6403544/Roy-...at-expectations
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Enormous expectation??

Did supporters expect Liv to win PL - No
Did supporter expect Liv to win Europa league - No
Did supporter expect Liv to win every match - No
Did supporter expect Liv to win against MU - No, a lot of people will satisfy with a draw as well.

Even now, some supporters already drop down expectation to finish 6/7th place in PL instead 4th, which is also an enormous expectation? sweat.gif

What shoud supporter expect then?
16th place?

Supporters just expect Liv can play some football that better than currently what had been display by 6 previous matches.

Added on September 28, 2010, 11:09 amPlayers and managers are getting ten of thousand GBP per week, which is funded by loyal supporters that fork out their hard earned money to buy tickets, merchandise, subscribe costly pay TV to support their team, and in turn, tell supporters don't expect too much from the players and managers?

I don't know what to say.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Sep 28 2010, 11:09 AM
cherroy
post Sep 29 2010, 10:26 AM

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QUOTE(digilife @ Sep 29 2010, 09:44 AM)
without Confidence you wont hav Consistent, agree?

we nid Confidence and wif this , we can go for Consistency

i ady mentioned abt our super low morale when Cisse broke his leg and there is no capable striker to take his place........which we eventually managed to climb back after our Confidence grew as we won some matches later on

so lets stay positive and Hope for the Best and Prepare for the worst
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How can players feel confidence, when manager said expectation is too enormous to win matches. sweat.gif

Every match, when you play (even you know you will be outclassed by a stronger team), as manager, you always said, try you best to match with them or nick a win out of it.

Even League 2 team also can win against PL team.
cherroy
post Sep 30 2010, 04:25 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Sep 30 2010, 12:02 PM)
I'm not going to debate assumptions because it will never end. I'll start by commenting on a point you brought you, that Liverpool have never really been caught up with business and money until the last decade, or even less. This further reinforces my point that we never capitalised on our success back in the 80's. We were the last Premiership club to have our own website and we never had a Commercial Director until the appointment of Ian Ayre in 2007. I've no doubt that we have a pretty large global following but we never saw it fit to tap on them until recently, hence the appointment of Ayre. Just to add, we have only just recently launched our own TV station. Instead of leading the trend, we are now followers. Do read this interview with Ayre if you haven't already. It gives readers an idea of what we could have done much earlier to ensure our commercial value is higher than it is now. Yes we have a large following but up until recently, we didn't have proper communication channels with our fans whether it be via the internet, TV, LFC stores, email, etc. http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news...s-with-ian-ayre
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


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Yup, agree.

Liv from concuring the first division title eventually fail to win a single league title after PL being introduced, also has a lot to do with business and financial as well. Since PL born, it is very commercialised sport, and you need financial strength to compete at top level to get the best player.

Nowadays, PL football is just like running a company. You need a good manager, like good engineer in a company, and also a good financial officer to run the financial show behind so that the club can move forwards.
Without both even a good manager/engineer that can produce good product, you don't know how to sell or what price you should sell at a profit.

Liv has been poor in transfer market as well, always pay high to get player, while shipping out players at cheap. Only a few exceptional case, like Alonso.


cherroy
post Oct 1 2010, 10:47 AM

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QUOTE(solstice818 @ Oct 1 2010, 03:20 AM)
We said Rafa talks a lot in the media...but he only talks to defend the team...unlike roy, he talks a lenghty long time only to lower the fans' expectation and demotivate the team...
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Now, fans must satify every draw, as every draw is a good result for Liv. doh.gif

vs Birmingham - draw, good result, as not every team can win against them
vs Sunderland - draw, good result, as it is a tough game
vs Utrecht - draw, good result because it is a tough game.

So we, supporters' expectation from every match is -- draw. doh.gif

So this Sunday, we should expect to draw against Blackpool as well?
Because they are a on form team, so a draw is a good result for Liv?

38 points from the league is the target for the end of season?
cherroy
post Oct 1 2010, 11:33 AM

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QUOTE(uNeVErwaLkaloNe @ Oct 1 2010, 11:25 AM)
if we were to change manager again, i will go for martin o'neill...2nd choice would be kenny daglish, 3rd is guus hiddink

now, i deeply regret myself for supporting liverpool to axe rafa...we already play more than 10 matches, i never felt so demotivated watching our team play....sigh    wink.gif
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Feel demotivate when seeing the team play, and even more demotivate when seeing the report or hearing the comment made by the manager.

I am not pro Rafa or not. But when you play badly, please just state your team play badly, that's all. At least Rafa a few occassion did admit the team played badly under him.
cherroy
post Oct 1 2010, 03:22 PM

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Cannot challenge the top never mind
Cannot match MU, Chelsea, Arsenal strength and lose matches against them, never mind.
Cannot win against Sunderland, Birmingham, never mind.

The fans just hard to take a team full of international, was outplayed by team like Birmingham, Sunderland, Utrecht, and manager is happy about snatching a draw.

This is not the result disappointed the fans, it is the team consistently outplayed by opponent that make fans morale down across, while manager happy about the match outcome.
cherroy
post Oct 3 2010, 12:10 AM

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QUOTE(normeck @ Oct 2 2010, 01:12 PM)
4th - Well look at Blackpool stat, they has play 4 game away and got 2 wins and 2 lost, not so much as a strong team there..so i think we can get 3 points as Liverpool not lose yet at home this season

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Blackpool win 2 lost 2 in away
while Liv draw 1 lost 2.

QUOTE(DarkNite @ Oct 2 2010, 02:57 PM)
Blackpool stat - play 4 game away and got 2 wins and 2 lost WHICH is not bad! And a point more than LFC. Liverpool away - win 1 lost 2!

Praying for a miracle win for morrow's match so that we can be in the top half of the table. So very sien to be next to the relegate zone since the start of this season!  sweat.gif
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Liv away is draw 1 lost 2.
Zero win, score 2 conceded 6.
cherroy
post Oct 4 2010, 01:30 AM

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Expectation has been lower and lower.

Start of season - top four
Season started - Europa league
After 7 games - Avoid relegation.

This is what fan expectation should be??
So that the expectation not too high and won't affect the players' mind or on field performance?

Blackpool passes was accurate, while Liv was not.
See how Blackpool midfielder defence splitting pass lead to the first penalty.
See off the ball running is very crucial to create space for yourself in the second goal.

Liv has none of such passes for the whole game, even in the previous few matches.

1 upfront with Torres/Ngog alone in a home game against Blackpool, a team with most goals conceded?
and yet cannot score a open goal? and need to rely on quick thinking again with suprise freekick taking to score a goal?

cherroy
post Oct 4 2010, 11:08 AM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Oct 4 2010, 10:52 AM)
Now I am no Premiership manager but I have been watching football long enough to form my own opinions. One may argue that as fans, we don't see the whole picture and it's a fair comment but I think that some things are just that obvious. We were getting raped on the flanks last night and Hodgson did nothing to address this the entire game. If this were last season, we'd see Mascherano scampering across either flank, providing cover for our fullbacks but Poulsen really hit the nail on the head when he said he was still a little off the pace because he literally was. He provided little cover and was reduced to nothing more than an extra body. By the time Poulsen was taken off and Mereiles had dropped further back the game was already practically over.

I don't actually have much complaint starting Carragher on the left. Sure he never really had pace but he played in that position when Houllier was in charge and I can't imagine who else would have filled in. Heaven forbid that Hodgson would have opted for Skrtel or Poulsen to play in that position. I am pleasantly surprised that Blackpool looked enterprising and played the ball to feet for much of the game, instead of adopting long ball tactics and this exposed that fact that not only are our defenders weak in the air (bar Kyrgiakos), but we can't defend against players running at us either. Again, I can't imagine Agger not starting when he's fit again and he is the quickest of our centrebacks and has better ball control and passing range. I think an Agger and Kyrgiakos complement each other well actually. We are still however, crying out for a decent defensive midfielder and I wonder how little Jay Spearing would do. He has the same boundless energy and enthusiasm Mascherano has.
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My view,
Poulsen not only not providing enough cover to backfour, passes are generally poor as well, the DM looks none existence at all. Little difference with the like 10 v 11.

QUOTE
They have won just one of their seven league matches - a 1-0 victory over West Brom at home - and are 18th with just six points.

"I'd rather not think about it,'' was Hodgson's response to being asked about the game. "In the first half we were correctly punished for a lacklustre display. We had the ball as much as them but did not do anything with it anywhere near enough to satisfy my, the club's or the players' demands.

We conceded two goals on counter-attacks but in the second half we came out and tried to turn matters around but could only get one goal. Their great result is our nightmare result. It is a very bad day and there is nothing I can say.
"At the moment things look bleak and really bad and it is difficult for me to put a bright face upon it. There are 31 games left but when you are in the relegation zone you are in a relegation battle.
The manager said, relegation battle !!!

Liv is in relegation battle...
From CL winner, second place in PL, now relegation battle!

Current main issue -
Inability create chance and score goal.
Defence looks shaky across, almost every match, the busiest player is Reina, not something the team needs. A good team means your GK can picnic in front of his goal and enjoy coffee.



cherroy
post Oct 4 2010, 11:13 AM

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QUOTE(Petre @ Oct 4 2010, 10:57 AM)
which really makes me wonder. RH has been using the same players, hence we dont see much of babel, not even spearing, and keep on using maxi. now i assume agger wont feature much in the future after his outburst (true or not we'll never know). is RH scared to use our youngsters after the carling cup disaster? i dont know. at times his subs are positive but his refusal to use certain players seem to contradict his belief or philosophy, if he has any

now it just seems that he is just a clueless manager. heck he dont even use lucas, which i rate higher than poulsen.
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My view,
Lucas is seen worldclass in comparison.
Jovanovic got some pace, skill and considered a flair player. Quite compose when score goal in league cup, has some skill to beat opponent in 1 v 1 position.
But clearly is out of favour. He can play behind striker as well.

Basically, every match is the same approach, almost same tactic adopted even last few matches performance is poor and ineffective.

Added on October 4, 2010, 11:15 am
QUOTE(koolspyda @ Oct 4 2010, 10:57 AM)
sack RH? where are the fans who predicted the new lovely "attacking" style over the boring 4-5-1 under rafa? (its getting bloody boring) are the results of winning OR even salvaging a *&^%% draw (a point) done in a respectable manner?

give the new RH more time?
we are now at bottom 3, i've said it the last time, we are in trouble but delusional ppl still say 1-2 wins & we are back on the top half of the table. RH cant pull a rabbit out of the hat even if there 6 rabbits in there.

standard chartered' is no jinx, neither was calsberg. its liverpool up there (board) that had not progressed. we are being dragged down the dry well.
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Current system play is not boring anymore, it is scary to watch as a fan.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Oct 4 2010, 11:15 AM
cherroy
post Oct 4 2010, 11:41 PM

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QUOTE(meaj @ Oct 4 2010, 11:18 PM)
An honest question to The Kop Talks;

Let say Liverpool gets a new owner after RBS takes over the club, which is the highest possibility right now. Let say it's not the Sultan of Brunei or some filthy rich sheikh or anything like that. Just a normal buyer, like Gillet & Hicks, like the Glazers, which is very much a possibility. Now, that scenario doesn't pull Liverpool out of the dire situation altogether, as a matter of fact, the ownership debt could still be there. It's back to square one, but with some more money and some more time. Some say that's the likely scenario.

The question is, as a Liverpool supporter, what  would you like to see next under the new ownership?

1. Reinforce the team with proven talents and start challenging for top honours/CL spot/Euro spot. This may require big spending. Failure may only hasten the vicious cycle.

2. Go easy on 1st team reinforcements, concentrate on developing talents instead. Easier on the economy, but may have to endure seasons without silverwares or even mid-table finishes.

3. Go for the stadium. Could be suicidal.

4. Sack the current coach. Get a more capable one right away. Could be the popular choice.

5. Other wishes/strategies?

What's your choice(s)?

(This is an honest, serious question and in no way do I mean to offend you guys regarding the current scenario with your beloved club. The deadline is looming on the horizon. As a rival supporter, I've been thinking about these questions and I'm sure you have been thinking the same.)
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2 & 3 is needed and move side by side.

3 is not a suicidal move. It is very crucial for the club long term future.

Yes, within the first few years, there will be a lot of stress on the financial part, and could lead to inability to spend much in transfer market, and inability to challenge the top or even miss out the 4th or Europe place, or just a midtable finsih, but it is a must.
Without a bigger stadium, means inability to compete financially. No point spend big in transfer market and getting some good result, and qualify for CL, but still making loss year after year, which eventually the losses may mean inability to compete in transfer market.

Just like what Arsenal did before, they need to restraint themselves in transfer market due to big commitment to the new stadium. But look at where are they now in term of financially, they now making ten of million GBP profit each year, and ability to spend big with own money/profit in a sustainable way. This is only the healthy way to grow a club.

4. The current situation is not the result disappointed the fans/supporters. It is the approach to the game, and mindset which make fans feel very very disappointed. If you don't expect to win the game, you won't win the game.
No manager will tell players, supporters that the team is not good enough, don't set the expectation too high on us.
cherroy
post Oct 5 2010, 12:23 AM

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QUOTE(miketee @ Oct 5 2010, 12:13 AM)
Ohhhh yeahhhh Aquaman how could I forget?!!! Thanks for the reminder.

Anyhow the point I was trying to make is that for all the transfer wheeling and dealing that LFC has been involved in since our 2nd place finish, we seem to have less and less money to spend every year despite being a selling club. The squad today seems significantly weaker, and none more so that seeing Lucas-Poulsen in midfield replacing Xabi-Masch.
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Even with a weaker squad, the team is full of international, which should be much better than a 18th place.

No matter how we look at the team, this team shouldn't be in relegation battle.
cherroy
post Oct 5 2010, 03:53 PM

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QUOTE(Ichighost @ Oct 5 2010, 03:08 PM)
Agree..one manager must go with the flow...then later change the team slowly to his favourite ..just to give a situation..

Jose  to Chelsea...he backed by Roman, so he can buy to play his favourite formation 4-3-3-after that he move to Inter..Inter got a good players to play 4-4-2..He improvised to play 4-Diamond 2..with the basic of 4-2-2..now he at Madid with a strong attacking lineup...he change again...4-2-3-1...His adaptability is superb! My favourite Manager!
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A manager should bring the best out of the available player at his disposal.

A tactic work previous with previous set of player, doesn't mean it works for now or current available players.

For eg.
You have Crouch, Heskey type of player, you can hoof the ball up and let them do the damage. But if you have Torres, Cole (who are not known for their aerial ability or strength), play this kind of tactic will make them looks poor only.

Just like put Carra at central half, he can make a lot of last ditch tackle to protect Reina. Look magnificent
Putting him at left back when the team was trailing and badly need a goal, and tell him to make overlap run and making cross, where can, oftern receive the ball at oppponent half at winger side, clueless already. Suddenly become a poor player with this.

Even the ball itself has changed many many version. Modern day ball when travelling in the air, is way different the old day ball, modern ball is lighter and can bend easily.
So new GK coach also need to follow modern technique to teach Gk to catch a ball.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Oct 5 2010, 03:53 PM
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