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 Primitive Fish, Fish that survived Milleniums

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TSBenSow
post Sep 16 2010, 02:25 PM, updated 14y ago

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Yo people!! Wanted to stat a thread dedicated to Anciet, Primitive, Old(well, yeah..), and AWESOME fish that survived thousands maybe millions (I havent check yet haha biggrin.gif ) of years on our planet Earth. They are really living fossils Myself I love primitive carnivore because they look so cool when some say it looks ugly.. They're body shape is very unique and the size is one of the main reason I love them.. You can watch them grow like your own children...

Types of Primitive Freshwater fish
I followed this list from Monster Fish Keepers Website but the care list will be from various sources from the internet..
-Arowana(Discussion of this species will be held at Arowana forum not here.)
-Gars
-Knifefish
-Lungfish
-Polypterus(Bichirs and Ropefish)
-Arapaima Gigas(Not included in MFK)

Please do share your stories I'll be getting a larger tank soon hoping to stock it with arowana, clown knife fish and may be planning to breed bichirs.. Sadly I will not be able to rear lungfish any time soon due to lack of tank space...

List of members
1)BenSow- Silver Arowana
2)khairulanuar- Polypterus Endlicheri,Polypterus Lapredai,Polypterus Delhezi,Polypterus Senegalus,Polypterus Senegalus Albino,Aligator Gar,African Lungfish
3)ivanchua- Arapaima Gigas, Malaysian crossback arowana, Red, gold arowana
4)Arawin92- Arapaima Gigas
5)Mamat_Lisham- Elephantnose, Double trunk Elephantnose, BGK, African Lungfish, A tank full of loaches + Sewellia lineolata in a stream set up, Alligator Gar (3', 2' & 9")


Thank You

Userbar for you siggy!
user posted image Siggy 1- Gar
user posted image Siggy 2 -Bichir
user posted image Siggy 3- Clown Knife
user posted image Siggy 4- Lungfish

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This post has been edited by BenSow: Apr 4 2011, 08:55 PM
TSBenSow
post Sep 16 2010, 02:27 PM

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Gars

For this thread I will only show gars that are suitable for the normal aquaria.

Genus Atractosteus
Atractosteus tropicus—Tropical Gar- Maximum Size of 1.5M but reportedly smaller in aquaria
Very rare

Genus Lepisosteus
Lepisosteus oculatus—Spotted Gar- Mazimum size of 3ft
Long snout and spots. Spots to a higher degree towards the posterior of its body. Easily mistaken for Florida spotted gar.
Lepisosteus platostomus—Shortnose Gar
The shortnosed gar can be identified by its short snout, and by the lack of teeth rows in the upper jaw like the alligator gar, and the lack of spots on its body.
Lepisosteus platyrhincus—Florida Gar- Mazimum size of 3ft but reports say world record is at 132cm
A highly varied species of gar. Has more spots on its body and a shorter snout than many other gars. Easily mistaken for spotted gar.

Basic care for Gars

In aquariums gars are quite demanding and require a lot of space and clean water. I recommend you to use as big a tank as you can for your gar, and I wouldn’t recommend keeping gars in an aquarium smaller then 200 Gallon/720 L. And that should be considered a minimum, a 400 gallon/1400 L tank should be preferred.

The tank should be decorated in accordance to gar behaviour. Gar are ambush predators and as such they appreciate hiding places from where they can stalk their pray. This is however not necessary. They are very friendly towards fish that are too big to be eaten. In the wild gars often live in loose schools and if you have the space you may successfully keep several gars together, in fact I would like to recommend it if you have a very big space.

Gars can be kept with most kind of fishes that are too big to be considered food and not too aggressive. However, gars should never live with plecos. Plecos sometimes suck on Gars and cause infections and since gars are very sensitive to most medicines these infections may be very hard to treat.

Regarding water the most important thing is keeping the water clean and well circulated. Gars accept most pH or hardness levels. Temperature can range from 60 to 90 degrees Fahrenheit (16 – 30 degrees Celsius). Gars breathe air and should be left with a few inches of space at the top of the tank that allows them to breathe atmospheric air.

Gars usually accept most kinds of living prey that are large enough. Feeders such as goldfish provide a good base for their diet but should never be the only thing they are fed since it doesn’t provide the gars with all necessary nutrition’s. Their diet should be diversed and this can be achieved by also feeding minnows, shrimps etc. However it is also possible to train gars to accept frozen foods and pellets.

Gars can not be sexed externally and have occasionally been breed in aquariums. Gars are more frequently breed in ponds or wild caught.

user posted image
FLORIDA GAR

Sources
Gar description http://ezinearticles.com/?Keeping-Gars----...Review&id=27621
Basic Care http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/predatory/gars.php
Picture http://www.aquatic-photography.com/gallery...hp?i=6374&c=180



This post has been edited by BenSow: Sep 16 2010, 05:19 PM
TSBenSow
post Sep 16 2010, 02:28 PM

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Knifefish

For this part I will show only the Clown Knife and Black Ghost Knife as these are most often available.

Other Knife Species:

Chitala Chitala: Rare and endangered...not likely to be readily available to the hobby, yet the scientific name is also used to describe the Clown Knife
Chitala Blanci: Also known as the Royal Knife
Chitala Lopis: Also known as the Giant Knife or Giant Mekong Knife
Notopterus Notopterus: Also known as the Asian Featherfin, Asian Black Knife, or Bronze Knife

Distribution:
Southeast Asian...found in calm, large rivers and backwaters that are overgrown.
Clown Knife Fish are very popular as food fish in their native land throughout Asia.

Water Parameters:
PH: 5.5 to 7.0
dH Range: 2-10
Temperature: 75ºF to 82ºF (24-28°C)

General Body Form and Characteristics:
The Clown Knife Fish is nocturnal, although they do sometimes come out during the day. They are quite remarkable to watch when they swim, as they are just as comfortable swimming backwards as they are going forwards, and they are amazingly flexible. When changing direction, they can turn within their own body length and often seem as though they have no backbone. Although they are very high through the body, they are very narrow widthways. This makes it possible for them to fit through very slim spaces where most owners would think it was impossible for them to wriggle through.
They tend to be quite shy and skittish fish which can be easily startled when surprised. Unlike their South American name sake, they have very good eye sight, which enables them to be highly skilled predators. They are ambush predators so while hunting, they like to approach small fish from behind, sneaking up very slowly, then pouncing and engulfing their prey whole in their enormous mouths. They can fit much larger fish that you would think into their mouths, so they cannot be considered safe in a community tank.
They are very hardy fish once they reach a certain size, but can be sensitive to water conditions and some medications when they are smaller than 9 or 10". I have heard of many cases of young fish, 3 to 5", dying soon after they are purchased due to shock or unsuitable tank conditions.
And last, but not least, Chitala species have air breathing organs. Coming from low oxygenated waters, they have developed the ability to breathe air from the surface. So it is not uncommon for these fish to come up for the occasional air gulping.

Compatibility:
When young, these fish are comfortable in groups, but as they mature, they much prefer to live singly. Adult specimens will not tolerate another Clown Knife or similar species in their tank, though, there has been success with raising young Clown Knives together to adulthood. They also cannot be kept with smaller fish of any kind, as anything small enough to fit in their mouth will be considered as food and they will often take a snap at larger fish, just on the off chance they may get a meal out of it. Clown Knives tolerate large tankmates quite well, often ignoring attempts by territorial cichlids to chase them off. This can sometimes lead to problems with injuries being inflicted, although the clown will usually retreat to its hiding place before any major conflict occurs.

Tank Size and Aquarium Set Up:
The first thing you need to think of when it comes to this fish is that it can reach an enormous size, even in the home aquarium. They are often offered for sale as small as 3", and a lot of fish stores seem to forget to mention to the prospective owner that this cute little wiggler can reach lengths of up to 36". They can be comfortable in a 55gal tank up to around 10", but then you will need a tank that is an absolute minimum of 180 to 240 gallons and bigger is always better.
Due to their nocturnal nature, they need a place to hide during the day. A piece of pipe or a cave where they can get away from the light. Without this, they can become stressed very easily and will try to fit themselves into any dark space they can find, often causing damage to themselves. They do better with open swimming space, but they are adept as negotiating obstacles such as plants and piles of rock. In the wild, they inhabit slow moving rivers and lakes in many areas of Asia, and do well in tanks set up similar to this type of environment.
They prefer a neutral pH and softer water, but larger fish can adapt to a higher pH and hard water.

Feeding:
Clown Knife Fish can be extremely picky eaters. In their natural habitat, they are exclusive piscavores(fish as a regular diet), and this can become a problem in the home aquarium. If you start young enough, they can be trained to eat pellets and some frozen foods, but this cannot be guaranteed, so a supply of healthy live feeder fish is usually required especially in the beginning when you bring them home from the LFS. This supply can consist of pretty much anything the fish can fit in its mouth, Goldfish, Buenos Aires Tetras, Neon Tetras, small Convicts, Guppys, etc. Some other foods that will sometimes be accepted are pieces of prawn, shellfish and some meaty foods such as beefheart, although animal proteins are not considered to be very healthy for them and should only be fed occasionally. Vary your Clown Knife's diet as soon as possible. Don't let your Knife get locked onto ONE food type.

Growth Rate:
Growth rate will vary depending on various factors-
1) Tank Size
2) Water Quality
3) Diet
In the wild, they have been recorded 36" and over. Usually in aquariums, they will obtain a decent size of 18" to 24". For the most parts, I've had pretty fast growth rate for these guys...growing at an inch per month.

Coloration:
Generally silver, with a green tinge. The most striking feature are the circular markings along the middle area of the fish (ocellaris). The ollecari may increase in size and number as the fish grows. There are also Golden, Spotless, and Albino variations available.

Breeding:
Because only young fish are kept and most never reach maturity, as far as I can find out they have not been breed in an aquarium. And there are no exterior differences between males and females.
Breeding/Reproduction: Captive breeding is possible but this probably won't happen unless the fish are kept in a very large tank, in this case, that means 500 gallons or more. They are usually bred in ponds. The pair will usually lay their eggs on a flat rock with floating plants as cover. The male will aggressively guard them until they hatch in 6 or 7 days. The fry should be moved into a rearing tank and fed baby brine shrimp until they are large enough to take other foods.

user posted image
Clown Knife- Chitala Ornata

Sources
=Care and similar species written by RED DEVIL Original link: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=301832 Thanks red devil!
=Picture: http://www.wildaboutbritain.co.uk/gallery


This post has been edited by BenSow: Sep 17 2010, 09:09 PM
TSBenSow
post Sep 16 2010, 02:29 PM

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Lungfish

Intro
Lungfishes can be found in Australia, South America and Africa. There exist a total of six different species divided over two families. They all share the fact that they have developed lungs which allows them to breathe air in waters with low oxygen levels.The two families of lungfishes are Lepidosirenidae (South American lungfish and African lungfish-grows to 6'/2m long) and Ceratodidae (Australian lungfish).

Hibernation
Lungfishes hibernate during dry seasons when there is little or no water at all. Usually they dig into mud and hibernate in the mud and when the wet season comes it will trigger spawning.


African Lungfish

There are 4 different species of African lungfish however the most common species to be found in the aquarium trade is
Protopterus annectens-Most common
Protopterus aethiopicus
Protopterus amphibius
Protopterus dolloi

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African lungfishes are easy to keep if you can dedicate a large aquarium to specimens since they accept a broad range of water values. They should preferable be kept in neutral to slightly acidic water.They eat anything that is offered to them including dry food. (You might have to train them before they accept dry food.) If a food source is too large to fit in their mouth they eat pieces out of it, this includes other larger living fishes. So don't assume that a fish is safe with your African lungfish just because it is too big to fit in its mouth.

Australian Lungfish-Neoceratodus forsteri
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They have very small eyes and a long thick body which is covered in large scales. They are usually olive-green to brown with dark spots on the sides. The species is CITES protected but there are licensed breeders from which they can be bought. They grow upto 5ft/1.5m and weigh over 40kg. The Australian lungfish has unlike other lungfish only one lung.

Australian lungfish should when kept in aquarium be kept alone in a large aquarium with a neutral to slightly acidic water. They will eat anything meaty and their natural diet consists of frogs, tadpoles, small fishes, snails, shrimp and also vegetable parts. They detect prey by using their sense of smell and detecting electrical impulses.There are no reports of successful breedings in aquariums. They spawn during the night and it takes the fry 3 weeks to hatch. The fry grows slowly.

There also exist a few albino specimens of this fish. Those are however very rare and extremely expensive.

South American Lungfish-Lepidosiren paradoxa.
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The South American lungfish grows to be 1.2 m / 4 feet. South American lungfish can be kept in aquarium in the same way as other lungfishes.

They require a large aquarium which shouldn't house any other fishes due to their predatory and aggressive nature. The water should be neutral to slightly acidic. They accept any meaty food and you might be able to get them to accept dry food. Be sure to feed a diverse diet containing fish, crayfish, shrimp, and earth worms

There are no known successful breeding of South American lungfish in aquarium. They spawn during the rainy season and the male builds a nest in which the eggs are deposited. The male then guard the eggs and the young against other predators, egg eaters etc. The fry spend their first 6-8 weeks hanging from vegetation using adhesive glands. These glands are not present in older fishes.

SORRY I'M IN A HURRY.. CREDITS WILL BE ADDED LATER




This post has been edited by BenSow: Oct 20 2010, 02:39 PM
TSBenSow
post Sep 16 2010, 02:31 PM

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Reserved



This post has been edited by BenSow: Sep 16 2010, 02:32 PM
TSBenSow
post Sep 16 2010, 02:32 PM

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Reserved- Arapaima
konbawa
post Sep 17 2010, 03:16 AM

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i love black ghost knife fish.
seandavidz
post Sep 17 2010, 11:12 AM

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Arapaima gigas is under CatII in cites listing and same goes with Neoceratodus forsteri i.e Aussie Lung.
Both type are controlled items for future conservation to prevent them from future extinction.
SAMPERTH
post Sep 17 2010, 01:12 PM

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QUOTE(seandavidz @ Sep 17 2010, 12:12 PM)
Arapaima gigas is under CatII in cites listing and same goes with Neoceratodus forsteri i.e Aussie Lung.
Both type are controlled items for future conservation to prevent them from future extinction.
*
I thought the bulk of Arapaima you see in our Malaysian market are locally bred ??

Aussie lung-fish will cost an arm and a leg be it WC or CB , go for African sp like P.annectens quite cheap and quite often available in our market !!
seandavidz
post Sep 17 2010, 01:33 PM

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QUOTE(SAMPERTH @ Sep 17 2010, 01:12 PM)
I thought the bulk of Arapaima you see in our Malaysian market are locally bred ??

Aussie lung-fish will cost an arm and a leg be it WC or CB , go for African sp like P.annectens quite cheap and quite often available in our market !!
*
Locally breed arapaima ? But still under CatII.
Totally agreed on the arm and leg for Aussie Lung.




TSBenSow
post Sep 17 2010, 03:40 PM

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abt d gifas i nr sure.. the lung oso... my lfs sellling lungfish d for e rm100 is tat african?
khairulanuar
post Sep 17 2010, 05:56 PM

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my fish list biggrin.gif


Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image
TSBenSow
post Sep 17 2010, 06:40 PM

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Thanks for sharing! mind listing the full list? So i can add you to the member list thumbup.gif


Added on September 17, 2010, 8:47 pm
QUOTE(khairulanuar @ Sep 17 2010, 05:56 PM)
my fish list  biggrin.gif
*
I just saw you have a lungfish!! How much did you get him for and how big is he?

This post has been edited by BenSow: Sep 17 2010, 08:47 PM
TSBenSow
post Sep 18 2010, 01:25 PM

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Anyone keeping clown knife fish? anymore people keeping primitive fish species?
khairulanuar
post Sep 20 2010, 09:03 AM

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QUOTE(BenSow @ Sep 17 2010, 06:40 PM)
Thanks for sharing! mind listing the full list? So i can add you to the member list thumbup.gif


Added on September 17, 2010, 8:47 pm

I just saw you have a lungfish!! How much did you get him for and how big is he?
*
i get him for rm150...the size is about 1feet +++

youre interested in it? i let go to you


Added on September 20, 2010, 9:37 am
QUOTE(BenSow @ Sep 18 2010, 01:25 PM)
Anyone keeping clown knife fish? anymore people keeping primitive fish species?
*
i keep it long times ago...after they get bigger i give them to my friend...

now i kept just two knife fish... the normal knife fish and the one i think it a african knife... smile.gif

This post has been edited by khairulanuar: Sep 20 2010, 09:37 AM
tony05
post Sep 20 2010, 09:36 PM

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I keep Potamotrygon Stingray ( I think they are monster fish too brows.gif )
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/715194/+160


TSBenSow
post Sep 20 2010, 09:56 PM

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lol my favs r primitive fish, catfish from south america, and rays! XP
konbawa
post Sep 21 2010, 12:32 AM

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black ghost knife fish oso being called as under water puppy, bcz of their behavior. get one and explore the beauty of it. u will be more gladful to admit it. =D
khairulanuar
post Sep 21 2010, 08:59 AM

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QUOTE(SAMPERTH @ Sep 17 2010, 01:12 PM)
I thought the bulk of Arapaima you see in our Malaysian market are locally bred ??

Aussie lung-fish will cost an arm and a leg be it WC or CB , go for African sp like P.annectens quite cheap and quite often available in our market !!
*
bro where do find the african lung? i want to buy the small one..how much do you get for african lung?


Added on September 21, 2010, 9:37 am
QUOTE(BenSow @ Sep 20 2010, 09:56 PM)
lol my favs r primitive fish, catfish from south america, and rays! XP
*
dude did u ever heard of the african pike? i see 1 at lfs at selayang....really hope to have it smile.gif

This post has been edited by khairulanuar: Sep 21 2010, 12:20 PM
TSBenSow
post Sep 21 2010, 10:14 PM

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konbawa>> I had one before oh how cute is he but pity him I couldnt find a suitable hiding spot the only place he hide in is a small PVC pipe... he ended being eaten by my snakehead cry.gif

khairul>> african pike doesnt WOW me though... looks like yellow panchax LOL


Added on September 21, 2010, 10:16 pmand lol im having PMR in 2 weeks... so the other fish care profiles have to wait... sorry guys

This post has been edited by BenSow: Sep 21 2010, 10:16 PM

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