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Philosophy Atheism & Theism, Philosophical style religious discussion

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TSZozi
post Sep 10 2010, 09:57 PM

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QUOTE(daccorn @ Sep 10 2010, 09:41 PM)
I think it is really fitting and refreshing to see people mentioning that there are masses who might or might not have a specific religion to adopt a certain belief of a being or force that exist beyond the plane of this world of which they can source their values and principals from. Good stuff.

However, in my opinion, some of these people have also at the same time blurred the lines between aethism and theism at certain times because the mainstream religion these days have been preaching theism supported through a particular form of diety and people might have forgotten that dieties could and can always not exist in ones belief in that sense.

In simply sense, I think there are Aethist out there who actually based their value and principals on a certain school of believes that either they choose not to admit or is actually not aware of the alignment of their aethism values to the values preached that could be taught by a certain school of theism out there
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Couldn't have said it better myself smile.gif specially your last paragraph.

I agree that due to the current complex religion system in where thoughts are being taught differently to suit the line of time we are living in now , can create confusion among the younger devotees. The cause of this, of which I think could be because :

- Availability of Historical information on the internet , books and media (History Channel). These could provide different versions of Myths and stories that youngster have heard from their parents, churches, mosque, priest or ulamas since young.
- Public debates one one's religion's authenticity , this will undoubtedly unfold many dark side stories that religions involved would be trying hard to hide previously.
- Advancement of Science, this have provided an alternative escape route to youngsters now, that it is okay to abandon the thought about religion, because science is the leading "New Religion" now and most of what science said, are already proven.

When you mix these 3 together, you will get a mentally unstable youth and he or she will be experiencing what Daccorn said in the 3rd paragraph in the quoted text.
pikachu01
post Sep 11 2010, 09:06 PM

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I feel I should post here since I've spent over half an hour reading and digesting this thread.

This thread has seriously altered some of my perception towards ancient religions. Perhaps I need to do some soul searching of my own to form a new point of view towards religions smile.gif

Btw, I'm a Buddhist that is more towards regarding Buddhism as a philosophy rather than a religion.
alizcielblutmond
post Sep 11 2010, 10:34 PM

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Buddhism is a religion with philosophical theory as its foundation, it is different compared with Abrahamaic religions with faith to single god as its foundation, this is caused by different philosophical perspective, or I should say the way to explain agnostic power that controls the world.

There are an agnostic power controls the world, human are curious about it, and yet fear about it, knowing an agnostic power existence cause human to name it. The personification of agnostic power become God, the most famous is YHWH created by Hebrews. The materialization of agnostic power become Heaven (in Chinese philosophy perspective), which occurs in China. The philosophy theorization of agnostic power become Karma, it occurs in Karmic religions such as Jainism, Hinduism, and Buddhism.

Then the personification of the power makes human fear about it, and thinks they will never achieve that, and subordinate to them. That causes the agnostic power have absolute authority over human, where human cannot win over. That means, no matter how powerful you are, you can't win God. Christians and Muslims goes to heaven to praise the god with psaltery, but they won't be the same with the god.

The materialization of the agnostic power makes human fear about it, and makes human try to harmonize with it and use it well. That causes human will try their best to harmonize with agnostic power. This exists in Taoism from China.

The philosophy theorization of agnostic power makes human going to research it, and try to break through it. So, Buddhism nirvana is to know the force of Karma that bounded on themselves, and control the Karma by knowing the law of Karma. While the highest attainment of Buddhism is the Buddha, and everyone can become Buddha if they follows the correct path of Buddhism. That means, Buddhists fears Karma and learn Karmic law, and trying to break through the karmic law.

Just my point of view, no philosophical training on me, yet. *>.<* And, I'm atheist.

This post has been edited by alizcielblutmond: Sep 11 2010, 10:35 PM
senyii
post Sep 19 2010, 07:43 PM

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QUOTE(Zozi @ Sep 8 2010, 12:04 PM)
yeah shamanism can be considered as atheistic as well, usually shamanist have something that they hold more precious than others. In my case, our sacred symbol is our Holy Mountain Altay. Like you said, the reason why the egyptian and greek mythology did not survive till today to be worshiped still is because of the non fitting environment in the modern society. Teachings that emphasizes an individual's superiority tend to vanish quickly when it comes to modern day world.

I think all religions are beautiful in their own way for they all advocated well being and what is good. Unless of course if it is being used for personal gain or to fulfill a selfish need. Waging war on others in the name of God is clearly an act of manipulation of its devotees in order to raise an army of unshaken and loyalty assured soldiers.

I am a big fan of the greek mythology, they have every way possible to make their gods and deitys look beautiful. The story of how Zeus was born and came into power itself is a very mesmerizing and inspiring story.

But the bigger question is, What is religion in everyone's view ? Can one survive without religion ? and what would have become of this world today if there weren't not any religion at all to start with ?  Will philosophy instead replace it ?
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I myself love the beauty of greek mythology and i do think everything will only exist in the world if one believes there is!

One may survive without religion if he/she can believe on themselves and can differentiate the right and the wrong. However, in real life I do see many people will only seeks their gods when they are lost or cannot determine their direction in solving problems in life. Sometime human just want to find something to rely on or to depend on when they have no other options. Say I do not believes in any god but since I was taught from small to pray to my god and will practice that whenever i went to the temple but not on a must to do it. Hence, believing and trusting in god will somehow gives me a protection or assurance that at least there is hope my problem will be solved or my wish will comes true.


segaraga
post Sep 24 2010, 04:59 PM

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QUOTE(Zozi @ Sep 8 2010, 11:06 AM)
There are many types of shamanist belief in this world, mine in particular is of the Altay Shamanist. Altay relates to a clan of people who resides at the Mountain Altay, who then migrated to other parts of the world due to their nomadic style of living.

We believe that our mother gave birth to us, but it is the nature that made us who we are. Every food we eat, and every water we drink were courtesy of Mother Nature. The elements of nature, wind,water,fire,earth and wood are of course our 5 our main pillar of strength , we believe that everything has a spirit residing in it. Respect the nature and acknowledge its superiority over human and it will guide you along your journey in life, Remember where you come from so that you will always have a home. These are words instilled to us since young.

There are 2 types of energy,

Sain - Positive flow
Uyain  - Negative flow

Sain comes usually after a heavy rain, where land will benefit most. After a rain, plants usually grow and soils become more fertile. When life comes to live, it is a good sign of a new good begining and we consider that a hint from Her ( Nature ) that something good will come our way.

Uyain is usually considered as the wrath of mother nature, any nature caused disaster is a sign of of disapproval from Her, that some things cannot be tolerated anymore.

Humans always think that they own everything on this surface of earth and disregard a power more mighty and noble than them which is the power of a creator, the nature itself.We often disrespect anything that comes in our way and take it by force if we want it. We shamanist are not environmentalist, we have been here longer than them and longer than any other religion ever existed. We dont protect nature , we are in no right and position to do so. She is our almighty and we believe that she has the power to defend herself. Instead, we respect her like no one else do.
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