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 [WTA] Cost for 20 minutes 2D Animation?, Might come out with real project.

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3dassets
post Sep 13 2010, 10:27 PM

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QUOTE(Evil1980 @ Sep 13 2010, 09:07 PM)
nope... the boss that u should talk to is Wong Kuan Loong a.k.a Ah Loong. He is an easy going person, with broken English. Hahahaha  biggrin.gif  ... Arree. Most of our project currently are for pre-school children. About the style is actually depend on what our client want. For now, most of our clients are from RTM, necklodeon, afrika and india. So it's western2 style laa mostly... sweat.gif
*
I know your boss Ah Loon, he know how bad my condition used to be, he couldn't help since he don't use 3D, do you guys still play sport every week?
3dassets
post Sep 14 2010, 04:40 AM

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Its about time you guys start using 3D to generated the vector style or anime rendering, but be aware of getting off with the wrong foot and caught somewhere in between technical issues.
3dassets
post Sep 14 2010, 03:56 PM

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With gov grant, you can get started but under their condition and get to air at RTM, privately created animation have to pay the TV to air. The quality, theme or business is restricted in many ways. People did not know until they stumble upon such restrictions and gave up. After the startup, another critical issue is sustaining, yet another dilemma even big companies can suffer losses.

To draw a few or simple scene is fine but if the characters is repetitive, some comic have already adopted 3D toon render, Gorilaz is good example. I don't do such animation but the software I use can produce toon effect or with plugin for better render.

This post has been edited by 3dassets: Sep 14 2010, 04:09 PM
3dassets
post Sep 19 2010, 05:29 PM

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We have high budget Sallahdin but I have not seen it on TV though.
3dassets
post Sep 19 2010, 09:09 PM

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If I am not mistaken, Sallahdin is based on the King sallahudin who defeated Western occupation in Jerusalem and there is a movie about it: Kingdom of Heaven.

The last I heard is the project was haulted and Young Jump were hired to help and was debated in the Parliament for wasted a few millions on a 10 minutes trailer.

Misconception about 3D and it is not just for the fancy software, it is not specifically meant for realistic, Gorilaz mtv is the proof, try not to make foolish assumptions based on shallow experience or you thought those are 2D? A famous Japanese cartoonist too have adopted 3D for 2D effect, why? Because it saves time and a lot easier to animate compare to frame by frame, interactive animation in vector format uses 2D for its light file size where 3D is too heavy.

I like to see your animation that managed to surpass those who have failed someday and proof to others you are right.

This post has been edited by 3dassets: Sep 19 2010, 09:21 PM
3dassets
post Sep 19 2010, 10:13 PM

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QUOTE(Lord_Ashe @ Sep 19 2010, 09:34 PM)
Of course they work under the radar.
*
Did the recruitment too are under the radar? Sallahdin were under the radar before, Malaysia's pioneer video game too are under the radar and I was in it and it never will see the light because it was buried.
3dassets
post Oct 5 2010, 01:57 PM

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I wonder, not to insult but does the gov still fund projects recommended by Dato rather than experienced individual? Those who are in the industry are queuing with their proposals and production house including publishers already got cheated with similar story.

For such funding, the proposal must include the out source companies involved and majority must be Bumiputra, if it is through proper channel but you are not the right candidate to receive this award in the first place, being 22 with 1.5 mil is a lure. Those who were cheated in the past thought gov money is free and no liability if failed.


3dassets
post Oct 5 2010, 10:16 PM

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QUOTE(wgn_white @ Oct 5 2010, 08:32 PM)
Allow me to ask this.
Who should I hire to run a studio animation which capable to run my own project from pre-production until post production?

Are you capable to do the pre-production works including the dubbing?

My knowledge on pre-production is nothing more than a theory I read in a book about publishing traditional animation I found in my Uni library.
The real world, I don't know and no contacts at all to ask how they're doing.
Actually, in Malaysia...
For an unknown people like me to even apply a fund as low as RM10K without "surat sokongan" from any YB or Dato, it's hardly for your application to be process and approved at all.

The Dato role is nothing more than making our application being process. The result still depends on the value of proposition in the proposal.

What I've learn so far from my working experience, the shady side of business is we just not need to "know how" but also need to "know who" if you get what I mean.
Actually, they still.
Why I strongly believe this is when someone I know not so close, already got his fund.
According to him, they have some quota to achieve to execute the Rancangan Kewangan Malaysia.
It actually not targeted only for animation but generally for TV content and animation is eligible for application since they are indeed one of TV content.
And I've verified this with the officer in charge in those government body.

To be exact we are under MSC, MEDC, or SKMM.
These bodies offer funding for animation but offer different terms and conditions.
This is just another leap stone before we become independence(financially) hopefully.

Personally I never know how the feeling of being bonded to government.

And like you said, most businessmen doesn't have choice to get the bucks because we can't get it anywhere else.
But there's term and condition and there's always higher people than the high rank officer which "take care" you.

If I can find any angel investor here, I wouldn't even approach government for funding.
It's not an easy way.
Sometimes I think that I am crazy enough to even think to start this kind of project.
I always think that this is not gonna work.
I always realize that this is almost near to impossible.

But...

Let's try, I said to my team.
The only thing we shall lost is some sweat, time, and flight tickets.  biggrin.gif
But we earn experience from it, maybe we can make use it for something else later days.

Oh yeah, I'm looking forward to co-operate with you.  thumbup.gif
*
Sorry, I don't believe the person who wrote this reply is 22 and almost caught in similar scam with a former boss, I threatens to resign to avoid the responsibility but the boss ask someone inexperienced to manage it and they produced ready to use sample based on the concept provided then they disappear, no one is cheated because it was a pitch with almost certainty if not guaranteed. If they got the job, they sell it to another production house.

I have heard enough of such scam, people who are not related to the industry set up these scams and fooled many book publishers in the past with the same story, how ironic. Maybe its true but its all about the money and artists only get a short term job while the fella went off with profit without doing anything. After that, the artist may have lost the existing clients.

Talk about MSC, MDEC and SKMM, I was in one of the scam project, have gone for interview to one of such operation also claim to be supported by some skim where the person always end with some Dato. Professional artist losing time is losing money, inexperienced artist is who you are looking for and they need the good experience.


3dassets
post Oct 6 2010, 01:36 AM

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QUOTE(wgn_white @ Oct 5 2010, 11:18 PM)
Erm... What do you mean?
I am the cheater or I am risking my self to get cheated?

Could you share more with me?
If it's sensitive, we can have PMs then...

Your statement scares me though...
*
Nothing about the truth is too sensitive and experiences are meant to share, the reason we post in this forum is to share our thoughts doing community work. You can see the SCRATCH & WIN scam never dies because there are many ignorants among us, greedy rich people manipulate the situation and become richer, LeechFever should know better than to condone such an idea where the deal is profiting from Gov grant using job hungry individuals so they can bait production house with the concept art and get more substance each step.

People took advantage of the grants and the industry at large is affected, its purpose is to grow the related industry but it caused stagnancy. Yet we blame it on the Gov alone for being foolish, this field is very small and sooner or later someone will hear about it if not experience it. Although the artist may not be the victim but the industry is, imagine half of the amount goes into the pocket of the undeserving and SALLAHDIN project cost how many millions? Does it help local industry at all? No.

wgn_white, how do you split 1.5 mil and how much left for the production? No need to ask questions to see anyone interested, just lay it out straight, what you are looking for is the artist willing to turn your concept into visual concept and how much they ask for, preferably someone who have dubbing resources and your limit is about 100k or 150k the most and your Dato is going to pay. End of first part.

After that you need to engage the real production studio that has Bumi interest to proof competency and assure delivery, end of second part and if successful, you can collect your share from the production studio asking them to pay with bank loan based in the grant. About 1/3 each? This is a typical case yet it happen over and over again.

If you are sincere, I apologize but your idea is childish from the beginning. Do you ever wonder why those cartoons on national TV are so poor in quality? Because its about the money just like what you are doing.

This post has been edited by 3dassets: Oct 6 2010, 03:20 AM
3dassets
post Oct 7 2010, 01:38 PM

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My point of view is to tell the facts not to judge,
The term childish refer to the idea of a non art person wanted to lead the professionals in better art creation based on Manga style, also 22 is not just too young but not enough experience.

Welcome to the real world, you are only 2 years old. You may be an entrepreneur who have Dato's backing and that is the worse criteria to succeed in a skill & creativity based operation, it is not impossible but far fetched. You are openly saying you can acquire Gov grant with the help of certain people and broke the law, these posts will be used against you even after you succeeded.

What you want is the business and what it generate are low pay jobs for full time Malay artists and a few Chinese freelancers, nothing more based on the remaining sum and you think the existing people allow you to kick them off? Your got more Dato or Tan Sri? Try is good but bear in mind that one who succeed, there are many who will fail. Right now, you don't have the credible trail but the ailing factor.

What you have is a fast track offered by the corrupted practice and they want to milk money from your efforts, enslave the skill labor.
3dassets
post Oct 7 2010, 06:37 PM

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You are unhappy because I gave you the facts and your emotion interpret it as look down, this is because you are young and impulsive, I was young before and gone through life without any favors from anyone to learn the harsh way.

Art production is not engineering based on mathematic discipline but skill & favor and emotion that cause no inspiration as an excuse, it rely on talent that are circumstantial not like anyone who graduate from art school can work on a project according to the designated style since it depends on individual skill level and attitude.

Artist is not machine who follow designated instruction and understand the same imagination, when you dislike certain element and ask to make it better, what do you think better means? Just because you dislike certain color, you want it changed makes it right because you are the boss? It is artist's nightmare to work for someone who act like art director but know nothing about the nature of art creation.

When you subcontract to this and that, how can you assure quality and at the same time maintain the budget? Middle person only workable in high cost production and there isn't enough jobs to nurture the kind of professionals you are hopping for, you thought money can solve the issue where talent doesn't come when there is no demand in the past?

What make you think another Dato will not compete with you or the existing one will do to keep you out? You think its all about your efforts but do consider what is survival of the sneakiest, so many factors that can blow you off track before you even know what hit you is what people do in the real world and just because you are the GM at young age, you can do this business just because you got recommendation.

I think you should complete your proposal and show us your success factors, convince us how you counter the odds and set an example. After this I think anyone who wish to succeed had to have recommendations from Tan Sri because Dato's title is over used. Some people have beginner's luck, I do and was carried away just because I have worked so hard to achieve some skills.

This post has been edited by 3dassets: Oct 7 2010, 06:38 PM
3dassets
post Oct 7 2010, 10:14 PM

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Yes I agree, that is why I said he should at least complete the proposal and provide the essence that will achieve a dream, any valid form of criticism cause for serious consideration in the development process, the beating is to disclose any hidden agenda and clear doubts, I share my shame experience been taken advantage of a few times and can't avoid it because these people can turn against us anytime.

Whether success or failure has its implication and some are expectable, lets see what will turn out.
3dassets
post Oct 8 2010, 07:39 PM

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I look through the various scheme two years ago and tried Cradle investment but not qualified also waste of time to fine tune my proposal to meet their requirements only to found that we have to cough out the money ourselves first and claim later as a successful recipient.

Others have age limit for startup individual otherwise must have a good team which is rare in my case. To me, 2D is dying and 3D can render toon effect if needed for Manga style, some Japanese use Hash Animation Master to achieve anime long time ago.

2D or 3D is not a style issue but reusability, one is draw 1 use once another is make 1 and re-create more.
3dassets
post Oct 8 2010, 09:52 PM

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Edit: I should rephrase that 3D can also do 2D animation effectively with more options, not wipe it out but an upgrade.

I began in 2D and just like you said, limited to the technology and could no longer find jobs as I become older no more 2D illustration and the trend gone to either Flash or 3D, I was in a dilemma and can't afford wrong direction abide the market demand or personal achievement. We simply can't apprehend everything, that would be somewhere in between and have no control on the career.

This kind of uncertainties wasted quite a few years and it is when I realized the facts in the long run never to rely on employment because it means surrender to fate and accept the low ceiling value, like you've mention, the salary is never enough to feed a family and it led to my divorce. Many of such jobs are out sourced to India if not China and anywhere that has cheap labor.

Most designers quit when they come to this stage and rarely above 40, when you reach my age, you want to grow your career rather than someone else's and one that you can control not circumstantial. The only way is to produce your own project and make your own business, isn't that what TS is doing even at 22?

Wait until you dive into 3D, you will be in misery if you follow the software standard and too troublesome compared to 2D as there are too many things involved like a one person doing the entire production, by then you have to decide whether is it worthy to learn the curve that may take a few years just to manage but a lot more to go before you can use it in real work let along write out projects that utilize 3D.

This scenario has kept many artists at bay, they either stop learning or have to focus on the part that they are capable of but far from making a career out of it. Unlike 2D, what you draw is what you get, 3D is a mission control and costs millions. Multimedia savvy is to be multi disciplined, no one can skip the steps except achieving it in shorter time because the technology is ever improving.

Future products is created by current generation with or without us and you choose if you want to take part or as user, what role do you play.

This post has been edited by 3dassets: Oct 9 2010, 01:49 AM

 

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