I want to ask about the cost of production for 20 minutes 2D animation?

The 2D animation up to standard with Japanese anime, I know we Malaysian can do it.

I'm not an animator and ironicly my field is far from this art field. (Civil and Construction Engineering) But I do have a band. (Music = Art?)
So I might not know if we Malaysian have already a studio that produce a 2D animation up to Japanese anime standard.

To be honest, I'm not impress at all with the our animation such as Kampung Boy, Keluang Man, Anak-anak Sidek, and etc.
They are doing a good job actually, but still narrowed to "Malaysian settings" only.
We can't sell them out of this country!
That's the bitter fact.

In my opinion it should be promoting Malaysian but without sacrificing what international audience expectation.

Rule of thumb is, give your audience what they want to see, not what you or your government want to see.

But ironicly, without the support of financial from our government, it's hardly to produce a good animation.
Even Upin & Ipin were started off with a grant from government.

So far just know such 3D animation like Ipin & Upin and all those aired in TV1 or TV2.
Actually I'm an entrepreneurs who wants to break event for Malaysian narrow settings of animation.

Can someone also provide me with some additional cost like composing the opening theme song, ending theme song and as well the sound tracks, music back ground, voice actress & actor cost, etc.

Thank you very much.

ask directly to http://www.animasia-studio.com/swf/home.html malaysian 2d animation studio

To be brutally honest, you get what you pay for. Guys like me can give mostly anything to the client, it all depends on how serious is their budget to begin with. Unless you have at least 60k in hand to back you up its going to be hard to do anything. 20 min of animation is going to cost you time, and that doesn't even include the pre-production phase. We really can't do much in terms of quality in Malaysia due to the grant itself, it is peanuts compare to what a canadian company gets. Plus most bosses who run the place have a hard time understanding what they even want.

My advice is get someone who knows what he or she is doing. It may cost a bit more to hire these people but they will save you major problems later on. Another advice is remmber that ANIMATION is NOT MULTIMEDIA DESIGN~ They are both 2 different subjects.

This post has been edited by meetxj9: Aug 27 2010, 02:50 PM

The owner is a royal?

So you're saying that RM60K is for the animation alone?

... and sorry to ask this, the pre-productin phase in this context is such like, character design, market research and etc?

I know I need to research more about this industry. But I really see the potential not just the animation alone.
Well, I'll keep what I forsee to myself for now.
It's just that no one have ever brought the animation far from the animation alone.
Not even Ipin & Upin. Ah~ Haha

When you say most bosses who run the place have a hard time understanding what they want... what it's mean?

The boss of the animation studio? Or the client(me) who hire the animation studio?

Actually, I know what I'm want. I don't afraid to break the taboo of Malaysian animation. Hehe... No... Not hentai for sure!

This post has been edited by wgn_white: Aug 27 2010, 02:56 PM

RM 60k is the standard for international quality. You can still get away with a lower budget but it all depends on how well you manage it. Right now you don't even have a storyboard or character design to estimate how the show might go. To be honest i already have a marketing plan, it does not include marketing this to Malaysia only.

Asking for estimates now won't show you anything. You will to get something done first like pre-production material to start off the budget count. If your asking for something like anime i can suggest ways to do it, it all depends on how far you want to take quality from there.

When i said that most bosses have no idea what they want i meant that they have the iniatial idea but don't know how to develop it into a proper product.

This post has been edited by meetxj9: Aug 27 2010, 02:59 PM

If that's it?(RM60K) then it's a good news. Good news indeed!
Cost I'm expecting to pay more.

I am also outsourcing the character design and concept.
But yeah, I don't have the storyline yet. But the story line it would be my task.
Anyway bro, have you produce some animation before?
You sound like an experienced person.
I am eager to learn more from you can I?

What I want is something like Japanese anime, but yeah talking in Malays of course as the primary target market is still Malaysia.
I want to take the quality up to new standard better than kampung boy such as.
The quality in what I mean is the realistic of the movements, settings, and also the lip sync.
Including the world effects and so on.
Realistic sound effect and also good dubbing that will make the anime doesn't sound like it was dubbed in a drum barrel.(you know what I mean right?)

As if for now, from where I should started bro?

At the moment, I only have character design and the theme.
Storyline would be discussed with my other partner.(Of course I'm not doing this alone)

Proper product?
Hehe... I know what product would be coming along and I've already think up some "anti-piracy" campaign as well.

This post has been edited by wgn_white: Aug 27 2010, 03:09 PM

2D animation is a tedious process. If you got the people to back you up it will be much easier. But first to get started you will need to do pre-production first. From there you will need to do quality control and so on. Everything need to fit the theme and style.

... asking this again... what is pre-production phase?

Ill let you know in PM.

This post has been edited by meetxj9: Aug 27 2010, 04:23 PM

Pre-production phase is where storyboard, animatic, character designing and layout making run... They have to pass this phase before the project can proceed to the animation department... Why are you asking here? If you a client looking for a studio to hire, you should visit the studios and choose the one you like... Your idea actually really good and that's what we (animators) like to work on... Now most of malaysian animator getting bored working on pre-school children animation... We want more action, more serious storyline (a little humour too) and nice character design to animate to... Come! Come! Come! to our studio... hehehehe...

What is your studio name?
Do you do the pre-production phase as well?

Actually this project is still in Step 0.

This post has been edited by wgn_white: Sep 13 2010, 12:13 PM

are u sure the standard for international quality is RM60k for 20minutes 2D animation?
im not really from 2D animation field. im from 3D architectural walk through field...
probably 2D animation is similar or lesser than 3D animation, but even it is 2D animation... seriously i find RM60k is very low for 20minutes time length. unless u were talking about freelance prices, which probably make more sense...

I believe 60k is MINIMUM for animation, that doesn't include background, storyboard and any other pre-production. He was asking for Animation price, so i gave him just that:). The excess is uncertain since he doesn't have anything developed yet. Pre-pro and animation together will cost him 100k easily and this is a "if everything goes acording to plan estimate".

Ah hahaha... I'm from Animasia Studio SDN BHD. I work in animation department. Of course we do pre-production and post-production as well. You can ask my boss and tell your idea and your figure of budget... Arreee... If you really come to my office, please don't mention about me to the boss.

How much it should be in your opinion?

... and is there's any different when we outsource this to a freelancer or a studio?

Oh... From Animasia itself...

Which boss should I talk to?

Ah, not in this near time thou. Need to wait during semester break then can go travel here and there.

Now just doing some soft approach & research first.

Why should not tell your boss? Later your boss know you ular-ing? Hehe

Btw, I never watch any animation done by Animasia, I mean all the tittle listed in Animasia official website.
But the scheme color is vivid and modern.

From my observation, the animation published more towards US styles rather than Japanese anime.

Never hear how much one episode of those series cost the company?

nope... the boss that u should talk to is Wong Kuan Loong a.k.a Ah Loong. He is an easy going person, with broken English. Hahahaha ... Arree. Most of our project currently are for pre-school children. About the style is actually depend on what our client want. For now, most of our clients are from RTM, necklodeon, afrika and india. So it's western2 style laa mostly...

Unless your company have an Art Director and some animators already i think its best you take it to a studio. Difference in Freelancers and Studios is that when dealing with studios you will have to sign a agreement to hand the entire studio the animation job. You will be obligated to pay them by monthly basis or upon delivery of material. I have been to Animasia before, best you go there pesonally to discuss matters. There are a couple more studios around here, so happy hunting~

Our friend up there telling the truth, animasia really got no action shows in the making. Unless you count Superstrikers one.LOL.

This post has been edited by meetxj9: Sep 13 2010, 10:06 PM

I know your boss Ah Loon, he know how bad my condition used to be, he couldn't help since he don't use 3D, do you guys still play sport every week?

Ahahaha... Ya, we still have futsal everyweek. Actually we now have 3D department in our studio, but still very young. There are coming project that we gonna use 3D animation, but it's secret, I can not tell the detail, hehehehe...

Its about time you guys start using 3D to generated the vector style or anime rendering, but be aware of getting off with the wrong foot and caught somewhere in between technical issues.

i wanna join 3D team. hahahahaha... X)

Sure please come for interview. And again, please don't mention anything about me please..

---

Added on September 14, 2010, 2:15 pm




Here is some of my animation practice... Just for sharing hahaha...

This post has been edited by Evil1980: Sep 14 2010, 02:15 PM

Wow, your animation is awesome! Did you do it traditionally or digitally?

Hehehe ... Digitally opkoz... More easy maa... I'm using Macromedia Flash 8.

Wow nice animation. As long as you don't do another bola kampung story. It's nice but too much already in Malaysia animation.

---

Added on September 14, 2010, 2:51 pmNever involve the government when doing business. It always end up bad. Even if financially secure, you sell your soul to the devil, lol.

This post has been edited by LeechFever: Sep 14 2010, 02:51 PM

That's really true... But I'm just an ordinary animator. Work there to feed myself, or get out and find another job . Can not question my bosses decisions. Anyway, there will be another Bola Kampung title going on... It's not TV series anymore. I think it's because Bola Kampung our company can grown up to current state. Can not just throw it away may be.

Are you using Wacom-branded tablets? I'm curious..

Why? Will the gov do something to your production somehow?

And if I'm not mistaken, did Walt himself borrowed loans from banks or was it some other source in order to finance his first full length feature animation?

Why specifically have to be "kampung" theme based all the time or rather lazy idea like "kacang". Upin and lupin is good but still kampung based theme. I mean there are so much other better creative idea that is low cost and does not need complex background. And the only way to grow is to do away with repetitive theme and come up with something new. Animation need not have to be brilliant, but the story needs improvement.

I can imagine they argue that "Kampung" theme is more rooted to Malaysia culture but I hardly agreed on that. "Kampung" just another "village" and like the rest of the countries, the concept of village is not that unique in malaysia.

Another issue I have with Malaysia animation is the sound effect. Some animation is fine but it comes to sound, it feels very awkward and does not blend in well.

---

Added on September 14, 2010, 3:34 pmBanks and government funds are different things lah. And seriously government funding is bad for business and yes, at times they will do somthing to the production like inserting pro government message. Unlike private entity, government are more "cincai". What that means, they care less about quality as long as there are result. Animators tend to get paid high but produce lower quality animation in hopes for higher profit. This actually encourage lazy syndrome in the company and people are less motivate to work harder. Look at some of the government funded companies and you can see they splurge money like no tomorrow but no quality behind their work. Even now, I see couple of pro government animation on TV, but very lousy quality.


This post has been edited by LeechFever: Sep 14 2010, 03:37 PM

Bola Kampung is the only title in our company that theme is about Malaysian culture. Other like ABC monster, Supa Strika, Ada ca dapra are completely other theme. Well, i think the theme kampung choosen to get government support. It is because that time the company are very new n need some financial support to grow up.

Lol, I have a feeling the company is going to have hard time getting out from government support and be independently financially.

Yaaa... I use Wacom... Old wacom tablet...

With gov grant, you can get started but under their condition and get to air at RTM, privately created animation have to pay the TV to air. The quality, theme or business is restricted in many ways. People did not know until they stumble upon such restrictions and gave up. After the startup, another critical issue is sustaining, yet another dilemma even big companies can suffer losses.

To draw a few or simple scene is fine but if the characters is repetitive, some comic have already adopted 3D toon render, Gorilaz is good example. I don't do such animation but the software I use can produce toon effect or with plugin for better render.

This post has been edited by 3dassets: Sep 14 2010, 04:09 PM

Is that pool table still around? I miss it. I also miss my bachelor life!!!!

But serious, after all this years, nothing ever comes out of our studios that is considered voilent. Even for most studios i work with they all follow the same kiddy train.

Lol

What makes you say that?
Do you have any bad experience working with government?

I agree somewhat, but we have no choice to get fund.
Banks?
Angel Investors?

Ah, just how much they will lend me?

How I wish we have our own money and then produce an animation without limitation because it's our money.

That "kampung" and "sayur" theme is what I mean.
The theme itself is not interesting and hot as romance or atleast slice of life, how can we expect to sell them.

I agree with you about the sound effects as well the voice actor and the script, most importantly.

We really need improvement... let's do it step by step thou.

About what you said is true.
They just want to filled up the quota so they can fill in the report for the current Rancangan Kewangan Malaysia.
Mean, it's executed.

but how I wish to take that advantage from government and use up the money that they gave to produce a serious work and not just to get the work done.
Because I'm not shallow minded people who want to take profits from the money given to produce the animation.
I've seen more wealthier money making opportunity if the animation is done in high quality and up to international standard.

Hope I will be there...

Something Malaysian but still doesn't have the traditional taste? Hmm... that's a new idea to begin but how?

And yeah, thanks for the info.
At first I thought maybe some bank are associated with the goverment, but hey, at least you cleared up my initial thoughts.

If you don't mind, may I asked what Wacom product you're using?

---

Added on September 14, 2010, 10:26 pmDo you think Malaysia can sell out animes>Japan? Few friends here love'em and want to try produce it when they grow up.

And so, what other themes Malaysia can sell out other than the usual 'American' styles? It's gotta be unique right? Something Malaysia-cky

This post has been edited by LZ Zach: Sep 14 2010, 10:27 PM

I'm a little bit confused. Ok, I don't do business myself but I did take management course which include how to set up business and one method is to borrow from bank which I don't get what's the fuss about since this is usually the norm for people who have little money to jump start business. And to answer the previous post question on how Walt Disney got his funding to make Snow White, he borrow from the Bank of America. However, that's just one method. There are many other ways of getting funds aside from loan shark and government like getting partners and so forth.

And like I mention before, getting funds from government tend to end up bad or low quality because there are always almost no consequences especially in Malaysia. As long you show something they deemed "ok", you will get the cut regardless how badly it is done. And government do not worry about money or profit, because the money came from taxpayers. Did you not see how the government always fund/bail proton whenever they are having trouble? And look at the quality of their car. Mine have creaking sound a week later. To make matter worse, mindset of animators funded by government tends to get too comfortable and ends up doing a horrible job because by the end of the day they still get paid. Step by step? Dude, I wish that was true but do I need to wait another 50 years to see us up to par to at least China animation level? I find China's Astro Plan more entertaining, mind you. IMO opinion anyway, correct me if I'm wrong.

---

Added on September 14, 2010, 10:43 pmDoes it have to "Malaysian" theme to sell? One can do fantasy/sci-fi with no affiliation to any countries, race or religion. Is Spiderman concept based on "American" theme? I believe the creator just came across a spider and have a light bulb on top of his head. Hang Tua......ok, scrap that. You can come up with a fictitious character from old era of Hang Tuah and make a warrior cartoon out of that. Perhaps how they fight of British and whatnot mythical monster. Even American have to borrow stories from other countries/culture like the Greeks. I don't really see what so shameful about that.


This post has been edited by LeechFever: Sep 14 2010, 10:43 PM

I'm not too educated to talk about that, hehehehe... I'm just try hard to make every scene I animate look really good, coz my boss gonna adjust my salary up if he see me doing my best and help the company grow good.

Ok so, if we wait another 50 years just to expect Malaysia to be on the same level at least China's standard but what about US or Canada? By then, probably they'd dominate the entertainment industry and I don't think there is little space reserved for us to catch on in this industry.
Maybe I'm a little naive and you comment on me later but someone's got to be the initiater or the 'changer' in our country, right? Or else maybe we'll still end up stuck in the 'Kampung-lagi-style'.

But I do notice that a handful local animation & gaming companies are stepping up towards that goal.

Not arguing. There are some locals who really are stepping up but their work mostly only recognized overseas and little was known that it came from Malaysia. And I'm not expecting Malaysia to be a leading animator at all (in fact quite impossible in regards to how Malaysian society view animation and associate it with morals and culture). Unlike America or Japan, I believe Malaysian have less freedom in venturing adult theme animation. Basically we are stuck at kiddy level.

We can debate on this till the end of time.

Reality is we will never catch up with our competitors no matter how much MSC rave about taking iniative to do anything. Even if we manage to get involve in some kind of collab with another overseas studio, we are only there because we are cheap labour. And even then that possibility doesn't seem too bright anymore since China is making WAY better progress. Hell, their animators can produce better quality then my seniors. Majority of the guys who own these studios are power hungry maniacs that have no idea what they are doing.

Another problem here is that employers think animators are an endless reservior of slaves ready to be used and thrown away. Most of the guys in the industry now are veterans, new blood is hard too find and even harder to keep. The way things are going now, im not even sure we have enough talents to combat even india.

This post has been edited by meetxj9: Sep 14 2010, 11:18 PM

In my opinion, Malaysia CAN SELL anime to Japan IF and ONLY IF that anime is dubbed in Japanese.
Creating whole new concept, OP, ED, and all the insert songs in JP.
Just re-use the Malaysian made animation.
If the storyline is appealing, I bet they will be acceptable.
Then maybe we can get an award like so called, "Best Foreign Animation Studio Company In Japan".
Beside, Japanese like "Mareshia" don't you forget that....

As for US, some of them prefer buying original DVD dubbed in Japan and subbed in English.
What that mean to you?

Me too, prefer the original DVD dubbed in Japan and subbed in English.

I think you can't blame the animators.

They work based on how well they are paid.

If the host, the person who ask the fund from the government want to keep the money for himself and pay the animators less money.
It would be the host to be blame, not the government and not the animators who give crappy work.

Government sectors of course they did not care how bad the quality is.

But let's say one day they INSIST their applicants to deliver a quality project which is not enough funded, how?

It's now depends on the host mindset.

I wondering...so this means if Malaysia was to make its own anime, but what if the quality or style doesn't match? Even with the dubs and voice acting,etc in Japanese? Will it still get positive feedback there?
I've never really heard of any country making anime other than Japan itself.

Oh, and what's 'Mareshia'?

You do know that Japan outsourced most animation to Korea right? If you look at the end credit, most will find Korean names instead of Japanese. Don't forget "Avatar the air bender" is technically not made by Japan at all. Then again the terms "Anime" refer specifically to "animation made by Japan" so you can't really say "anime made by Malaysia".

Oh, I didn't know that. But what kind of work does the Koreans do who are involve in the anime production since you said they outsource it?
Care to explain a little deeper?

I do know that Avatar isn't made by Japan but some Americans instead, but the story is really interesting.
So finally, the term 'Anime' only applies to animation made by Japan? Too bad I guess Malaysia's gotta get another style of animation I guess.

This post has been edited by LZ Zach: Sep 15 2010, 11:08 AM

The animation of course. The direction and dubbing could be by Japan. Claymore is good example. Besides, not only Japan outsource to Korea but American (The Simpsons) as well.

Avatar is not drawn by white American per se, possibly by Korean origin based in America according to the ending credit. In fact looks more like directed by a Mexican if not mistaken. Check wiki.

"Anime" is a pronounciation or word in Japanese for "animation". Kinda like "Kamikaze" to "Suicide". Somehow it came to the point people start differentiating between anime and ordinary animation based on drawing style and where it came from.

However that's just what I know and may be wrong.

Actually, Spiderman is also anime.

It's just Japanese accent saying Malaysia as Mareshia...


They outsource to the Korea to draw the "movement" frame such as walking. Jump or even the lips.
Actually the oursourced company just trace and copy the original artwork.

im just kidding. haha. i already have some planning in near future, but who knows in further future right?
and even i wanna mention about u... ur boss probably dono who is Evil in lowyat. X)

wow... awesome animation
do u draw all these frame by frame over adobe flash???
1 sec 25 frames, with some action like this and probably some background etc.... how long it takes u to draw 10 seconds clip???

btw, mind if i ask how long u been inside 2D animation industry? do u do freelance?






avatar, the last air bender... concept idea storyline are made by american. animation are created in korea by korean.

Yaa... I draw it frame by frame using Macromedia Flash 8. How long it takes to do 10 seconds clip is depend on what the scene is about.
- If it fast action like ninja jumping everywhere and fighting, in 10 second there gonna lot of thing the ninja can do... I think already killed 3 or 4 guards by the time... That's gonna takes me 2 or 3 days to do...
- If it just talking in 10 second, and half body shot, well... Just give me 3 or 4 hour, It'll be done.
- Background is other department job. I just do animating.

I already 5 years in 2D animation. And I only have talent in drawing (not in animation) when I first join here. I learn everything about animation here in my studio. Freelance... Yes.

i see. thanks for the info

Encik Apai ker?... style lebih kurang nie...

Alamak!! terkantoi pulak!!!

Hmm.. RM 60K.. that's expensive...

Uh, one of my acquaintance have started a new anime project of 13 episodes.

Overall production cost him MYR 1.3 million.

I don't know which studio will produce this and I'm not sure how long one episode will be.

But if rawly counting 1.3 million divided equally among 13 episodes, it would be 100K for one episode production?

But for sure this animation will not adapt any Japanese style of animation...

Ah~ I ask him to shed some way but still no reply...

Wow, seriously? In Malaysia? But 1.3 million...that's a huge numbers for a Malaysian producers compared to American counterparts...

May I know about the name of the anime & also how many people are working on it?

Seriously... Upin and Ipin pilot episode were costing RM150K before they mass production which cost RM6 millions.

And there's some trailer of Saladin cost RM20 millions for only trailers...

But both of Upin and Ipin and Saladin is a 3D...

This guy, he didn't tell anything else other than the number of episodes and the project started at June 2010.
Maybe it's a trade secret or whatever...

He got funding from MeDC which what I am aiming for as well....

p/s: Was MeDC the same with SKMMM?

From one guy's post I've read, he said those figures are like peanuts compared to American or Canadian production!
But what if Malaysian producers made animation shows in 2D? Would that cost less than 3D?

Funding? Wow, but do you actually need an explicit reason to get it? Is it the same as gov fund?

Btw, I don't really know what's SKMMM... sorry

To get the fund? Reason? No?

Lol

We need a good storyline, a proposal, a proof of concept and also some "cable".

So far... I have all except "a proposal"...

Actually the guy's post was correct... If we compare to RM60K for production cost only, RM 1.3 million is actually not enough....

'Cable'? Do you mean distributors?

What are the odds if Malaysia could ever catch up with American producers in terms of huge budgets in productions? (unlikely?)

My... how old are you friends?


"Cable" is a person you know inside the organization which can help you to achieve something....

For example, you want to work at CISCO... and at the mean time your cousin is already working at CISCO as HR executive...

Here, your cousin is the "cable"

Well, let's hope to the day where Malaysian producer will be able to produce an animation with high budget and quality... but first... let's start with ourself buying the original DVD....

No point high budget and quality if the plot is horrible. Upin and Lupin is decent and near average but I won't called it epic. Seems like we are celebrating something someone in other countries have accomplished decades ago. Jimmy Neutron is more entertaining IMO and don't get me started with cicakman...<sigh>. I always thought one must try master 2D first before venturing 3D. Apparently we did it backward lol.

Though there is one animation (2D and 3D combined) I wish to see that is "War of the worlds: Goliath". Heard sometime ago that the concept art and funding are from Malaysia. Supposedly dvd release on Feb 2010 yet nothing. Even googling produce scarce info. Someones been lazy and cheap in marketing, lol.

This post has been edited by LeechFever: Sep 19 2010, 05:15 PM

We have high budget Sallahdin but I have not seen it on TV though.

it's still under production ma. and it will be aired in middle-east before malaysia.

I agree with you LeechFever...
That is why I'm making my mind towards "Cost for 20 Minutes 2D Animation?"

In my opinion, if our 3D can't even come near to Final Fantasy, refer to the character design and realistic (well 3D is about realistic!) it is shame to call ourself "success".

I think most producer go for 3D because it sound "more advance" and "impressive" for the high rank officer whom they ask funds from.

And because it is a software integrated...
Where as, software = easy... LOL

I even never watch the official trailer...
I just found out about it while doing my research about animation industry in Malaysia.

I thought it was HALTED!?

Sallahdin looks quite good from the trailer (though why only target ten to twelve years old according to site? With lots of drowning people dying somemore in the trailer).

Only concern I have is that it somehow involves religions..u know..the cross vs crescent thing though I have to see the whole thing first. And some of the character cast also looks...odd. especially the dude with goatee and braid hair.

If I am not mistaken, Sallahdin is based on the King sallahudin who defeated Western occupation in Jerusalem and there is a movie about it: Kingdom of Heaven.

The last I heard is the project was haulted and Young Jump were hired to help and was debated in the Parliament for wasted a few millions on a 10 minutes trailer.

Misconception about 3D and it is not just for the fancy software, it is not specifically meant for realistic, Gorilaz mtv is the proof, try not to make foolish assumptions based on shallow experience or you thought those are 2D? A famous Japanese cartoonist too have adopted 3D for 2D effect, why? Because it saves time and a lot easier to animate compare to frame by frame, interactive animation in vector format uses 2D for its light file size where 3D is too heavy.

I like to see your animation that managed to surpass those who have failed someday and proof to others you are right.

This post has been edited by 3dassets: Sep 19 2010, 09:21 PM

Well, that's what shallow experience like me thought of 3D.
That's I guess represent what the audience expect when we say 3D... Realistic?

Saladin the animated series is alive and well. It is on the road to completion. I can't say more right now.

I've seen many people talk about "quality". Malaysian 3D animation is <"quality" than Pixar etc. In my experience working with the Malaysian animation industry, "quality" is hard to define. There is no official standard for "quality", even tho we all think there is one. No organisation in the world is qualified to define this "quality" because it is a combination of multiple factors such as 'story', 'character design', concept, etc.

Producing animation is not cheap. I have met local animators who have skimped meals, slept in their offices for a meagre return from local broadcasters. We have a very small domestic market which means most animation projects are aiming for international distribution, but it's not easy. Only a handful of studios have done so like Animasia or Inspidea. The government thru MDeC also have beefed up its expertise - some of these people are well regarded globally for their contribution to the industry. Of course they work under the radar, and most of you only see their efforts when they're done.

There's more I can talk about but suffice to say for an average international 2D animation the price can be anywhere from USD 50k per episode to USD 100k. 3D animations can cost even more, except in China where they can do everything cheap at the expense of how it looks...

Not expecting >quality than Pixar lah . Malaysia 3D like "upin and lupin" is quite ok but the problem lies at the plot. Too often they use kampung theme and jokes that are either lame or I don't really get. and empty plot in between that seems to just wanna drag on to fill time like Naruto infamous 2 years filler except this one in 30 minutes interval. For now, I really think Malaysia animation should concentrate on plot as it is the main part that drives viewer than how beautiful it is. That's why I say 2D first before 3D because it seems like we are given a race car without proper training to even drive a normal car.

Did the recruitment too are under the radar? Sallahdin were under the radar before, Malaysia's pioneer video game too are under the radar and I was in it and it never will see the light because it was buried.

haha..selamat hari raya Pai... (sorry mod for OOT ) heard you guys dah nak pindah dah dr old klang... send my regards to all of Animasians k?... rindu sumer kat korang nieeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's been awhile.

My proposal are halfway done...

I want to ask again from you guys here...

How long does it takes to produce that 20 minutes of 2D animation, Japanese style, not US style.

Minimum 100k for Pre-production and Animation all together. This does not include Editing. Without any materials finalized, the cost is still a a big question. If you have a Director or a Producer discuss with them first. The cost also varies depending on your employees output level and skill. The longer it takes for your animators to finish it the more you will need to pay. This does not include the retake peroid where your animators need to do amendments which will consume time also.

In short no one can give you a definite amount. It can even go up to 150k or more if things get worse. It depends on your team and their capabilties to deliver. I have met companies that cough up 20k to do a 10 min animation but at the end of that road they could not even sell it because it was pure garbage. If your going to do 2D animation, do it the right way and get the right guys to help you on it.

This post has been edited by meetxj9: Oct 4 2010, 04:53 PM

Let me reveal some information in my proposal so you can understand my situation.

It is a "concept" of Malaysian 2D animation, story resolve in Malaysia, about our unique culture and 1 Malaysia which adapt Japanese animation drawing style in characterization.

It will have 14 episodes which each episode is estimated around 20 minutes.

Funding so far, is applying from the government with some support from several high rank Dato recommendation.
So, I can almost say... money is not a problem but of course must be realistic figure in the eye of these Dato and the gov officer.
The figure in my mind now to complete these is RM1.5 mil which I think the most figure they will give us.
With some hope and prayer, I hope we get the funding soon.

The main purpose of this project is not just profit but to bring our animators out from their hideout since the audience fancy Japanese animation so much. We show we can do it too. Maybe my thinking is wrong, but that's my opinion.

I did not plan to establish a company to produce the animation because I totally won't know how to run any media company.
The only experience I have is only running a small firm with construction as core business and I'm still running the company until now.

I plan to out source to a studio or capable person to complete this.
We only have storyline for the whole 14 episodes, character concept design, the structure and also pilot episode storyboard with no script at all and no layout, no dope sheet, or whatever since they only want to see CONCEPT.

I am based in Sarawak and I can say we don't have any resources at all for production here. So do any capable person won't come to Sarawak for this job right?
To go to KL just for scouting, without anything in hand (the funding award) it's quite impossible for the studio animation to be serious on our visit.
They might think me and my team is just a joke since we're young? (I'm 22 and my team member they are only 19-20 years old.)

But thing change if we bring along the award letter and show the boss.

By phone is just so not professional doesn't it? Worst, they just take us easy or think us as a prank call. I've been in this situation...

By just assuming 1.5 mil and hope it will be enough... or we reduce the episodes... if it's not enough...

Now I am making the project progress report on how long the time for the whole project to be finish.

meetxj9, if you know some contact for the preproduction... kindly share with me since you the animator itself...

But still this project is only at proposal stage.

I dare not give you any contacts to any studios here. Every studio i have ever been in is a sweatshop and quality really differs depending on the staff they have at the moment. Advice, get your own studio up and running and handle the entire thing yourself, i know its difficult but you will not have a choice. If you want to save money in the long run and not have to worry about the cost of equipment and rent then you will have to get proper freelancers to help you out. This ofcourse only happens when Pre-production is done.

Doing it in sarawak it not a good idea since animators there are almost non existent. And animators here don't go to sarawak cause of low employment gains. As said before, get your stuff done first with money in hand then approach the animators for help. Even i dare not do any pre production work for you yet since nothing is confirm. And studios are even more difficult to handle if you source it out to them without proir knowledge to how Pre production is done. They can easily overcharge you if they believe you have no experiance in the matter.

This post has been edited by meetxj9: Oct 5 2010, 03:06 AM

I wonder, not to insult but does the gov still fund projects recommended by Dato rather than experienced individual? Those who are in the industry are queuing with their proposals and production house including publishers already got cheated with similar story.

For such funding, the proposal must include the out source companies involved and majority must be Bumiputra, if it is through proper channel but you are not the right candidate to receive this award in the first place, being 22 with 1.5 mil is a lure. Those who were cheated in the past thought gov money is free and no liability if failed.

From my experiance and logics the goverment will not fund an ANIME project. It has already gotten a bad rep here and the only way money will ever come in is that you have connections with a DATO. Or you take out a loan and go with it. If you check out the winners for the MDEC funds you can see that their projects are somewhat for children and they will never dare venture further then that because of rules.

And if you do get it, you will bind to finish it or ELSE.

This post has been edited by meetxj9: Oct 5 2010, 07:00 PM

Precisely why I say funding from government is always not good thing. Besides, it's tax payer money we are talking about, and people will start scrutinizing why on earth are they used to fund "anime"? At the end of it all, they will be expecting something in return either for their election campaign or just to please general masses and you be sacrificing quite a lot in terms of promoting Malaysia animation vs pleasing political master. These government ain't gonna help you unless the return is significant. Look at GLC companies, you know what I mean. Either get a loan, other sponsor or try ur luck overseas then come back once you have enough resource. Even if you have to make another "Paddlepop Adventure", "Koko crunch" or "Cheezydale" is better than getting bog down by Malaysia own government and stuck with another kampung boy plot for the rest of your life.

However that's just my thought on the matter and not personal experience. More on what I observed, hear and other people's opinion (even from a professor overseas on NOT to get funds from government when doing business. Most Malaysia business are guilty of that but because of policy and you know what, most businessmen don't have a choice but to band with government to earn quick bucks). If you are steadfast on getting funding from government, just be prepare that nothing is that simple.

This post has been edited by LeechFever: Oct 5 2010, 07:34 PM

Not that i don't want to give these guys hope, its a good thing what they are doing. But bare in mind i have met my fare share of talented Anime/ Manga artist and such. All of which draw pretty good and better then most. If getting funds were that easy these guys would be rolling in cash now.

Take my advice TS, don't expect anything and you won't be dissapointed. There are plenty of other ways to get your work out besides pandering to the government or overbudgeting your work. I have my ideas but they still required a decent capital to start and its much easier.

This post has been edited by meetxj9: Oct 5 2010, 08:06 PM

Allow me to ask this.
Who should I hire to run a studio animation which capable to run my own project from pre-production until post production?

Are you capable to do the pre-production works including the dubbing?

My knowledge on pre-production is nothing more than a theory I read in a book about publishing traditional animation I found in my Uni library.
The real world, I don't know and no contacts at all to ask how they're doing.

Actually, in Malaysia...
For an unknown people like me to even apply a fund as low as RM10K without "surat sokongan" from any YB or Dato, it's hardly for your application to be process and approved at all.

The Dato role is nothing more than making our application being process. The result still depends on the value of proposition in the proposal.

What I've learn so far from my working experience, the shady side of business is we just not need to "know how" but also need to "know who" if you get what I mean.


Actually, they still.
Why I strongly believe this is when someone I know not so close, already got his fund.
According to him, they have some quota to achieve to execute the Rancangan Kewangan Malaysia.
It actually not targeted only for animation but generally for TV content and animation is eligible for application since they are indeed one of TV content.
And I've verified this with the officer in charge in those government body.

To be exact we are under MSC, MEDC, or SKMM.
These bodies offer funding for animation but offer different terms and conditions.

This is just another leap stone before we become independence(financially) hopefully.

Personally I never know how the feeling of being bonded to government.

And like you said, most businessmen doesn't have choice to get the bucks because we can't get it anywhere else.
But there's term and condition and there's always higher people than the high rank officer which "take care" you.

If I can find any angel investor here, I wouldn't even approach government for funding.

It's not an easy way.
Sometimes I think that I am crazy enough to even think to start this kind of project.
I always think that this is not gonna work.
I always realize that this is almost near to impossible.

But...

Let's try, I said to my team.
The only thing we shall lost is some sweat, time, and flight tickets.
But we earn experience from it, maybe we can make use it for something else later days.

Oh yeah, I'm looking forward to co-operate with you.

When I mean businessman do not have choice but to bond with government to earn quick bucks, I do not mean they cannot get funding elsewhere. Malaysian government can own business. And they can make policy. What does that equate to? Policy to make ur business rich which is what we are currently facing now. Like Proton, you can set a policy in a way to make competition almost non-existence by increase import duty and forced merger. Thus earning quick bucks because if you ally with government, they misuse that power to make profit. If you are not with them, you are exposed to market vulnerability due to monopoly and against government owned/or having shares in that company. This lead to a halt in progress. It does not seem much now as the government has yet the brain to understand anything about "Anime", but it will eventually happen. It's what happening in China as well. Get a shady company to sponsor an animation, you get ciplak quality like "Astro Plan". And government now is as shady as it is.

Businessmen actually DO have choice of getting loan from somewhere else. They are just too greedy and impatient to get it (no offense). Most I know only follow the same formula in Malaysia: Get Dato/Minister/Politician involved, you are set for life, of course that also mean support them or you lose your source. Most personal business failed because some politician hick decide to award contract to his relative's company. Once you are in, it's hard to get out.

But enough about business and politics. It's admirable to have big ambition, but start small first, perhaps like 5 min animation and screen it on Nickolodean, advertisement or something, then slowly gather money and start big. Or start a manga industry to encourage malaysian fanbase. Thus far only one company I know have started it. However, I do not know that Dato enough. Perhaps he has interest in anime as well to make it work.....maybe.

Well, good luck . If your story concept is good, I will support.

This post has been edited by LeechFever: Oct 5 2010, 09:26 PM

Ah! I get what you mean now from the Proton example.

I have no comment because I don't know what will happen to me as well.

That Dato only help to bring our proposal get higher chance of being approved not more than that.

Sorry, I don't believe the person who wrote this reply is 22 and almost caught in similar scam with a former boss, I threatens to resign to avoid the responsibility but the boss ask someone inexperienced to manage it and they produced ready to use sample based on the concept provided then they disappear, no one is cheated because it was a pitch with almost certainty if not guaranteed. If they got the job, they sell it to another production house.

I have heard enough of such scam, people who are not related to the industry set up these scams and fooled many book publishers in the past with the same story, how ironic. Maybe its true but its all about the money and artists only get a short term job while the fella went off with profit without doing anything. After that, the artist may have lost the existing clients.

Talk about MSC, MDEC and SKMM, I was in one of the scam project, have gone for interview to one of such operation also claim to be supported by some skim where the person always end with some Dato. Professional artist losing time is losing money, inexperienced artist is who you are looking for and they need the good experience.

From your blog....are you planning a K-ON style anime?

Erm... What do you mean?
I am the cheater or I am risking my self to get cheated?

Could you share more with me?
If it's sensitive, we can have PMs then...

Your statement scares me though...


Lol? No.
K-ON is almost going into a music industry... we need a VERY GOOD composer and music arrangement to deal with let alone the animation itself... The voice actor the most important...

If you see the character concept design, it's almost similar to our local "manga" created by our local artist.
No, the azunyan with ear cat in my blog is something I got from LYN from anime shrine section and I just playing to color it. Read the description.

Lol. I'm referring to the Aya character lah since you mention concept. It's more on the uniform that I'm worry about than "voice". You know how Malaysian school uniform are just .....that and to make it different and claim it to be malaysian culture just kinda stretching it (or worse, sued by education minister/extremist for having skirt above knee).

This post has been edited by LeechFever: Oct 5 2010, 11:46 PM

Oh... It's just concept... Not yet finalized... That is a suggestion by my friend, the team member in charge for the characterization...

School uniform... will be more likely a pinafore of course...
and baju kurung...

Nothing about the truth is too sensitive and experiences are meant to share, the reason we post in this forum is to share our thoughts doing community work. You can see the SCRATCH & WIN scam never dies because there are many ignorants among us, greedy rich people manipulate the situation and become richer, LeechFever should know better than to condone such an idea where the deal is profiting from Gov grant using job hungry individuals so they can bait production house with the concept art and get more substance each step.

People took advantage of the grants and the industry at large is affected, its purpose is to grow the related industry but it caused stagnancy. Yet we blame it on the Gov alone for being foolish, this field is very small and sooner or later someone will hear about it if not experience it. Although the artist may not be the victim but the industry is, imagine half of the amount goes into the pocket of the undeserving and SALLAHDIN project cost how many millions? Does it help local industry at all? No.

wgn_white, how do you split 1.5 mil and how much left for the production? No need to ask questions to see anyone interested, just lay it out straight, what you are looking for is the artist willing to turn your concept into visual concept and how much they ask for, preferably someone who have dubbing resources and your limit is about 100k or 150k the most and your Dato is going to pay. End of first part.

After that you need to engage the real production studio that has Bumi interest to proof competency and assure delivery, end of second part and if successful, you can collect your share from the production studio asking them to pay with bank loan based in the grant. About 1/3 each? This is a typical case yet it happen over and over again.

If you are sincere, I apologize but your idea is childish from the beginning. Do you ever wonder why those cartoons on national TV are so poor in quality? Because its about the money just like what you are doing.

This post has been edited by 3dassets: Oct 6 2010, 03:20 AM