Bulldozer is not an APU..it is strictly just the processor alone..
You want a processor that has a IGP in it then wait even longer till the AMD Llano APU is available for the desktop..not too sure though because it will appear on laptops first

Athlon has better dual core than Zacate that is for sure..but the selling point of Zacate is the low power consumption and how it uses its IGP to decode 1080P movies
The Athlon does not have an IGP and you would have to either rely on a crappier motherboard IGP compared to the HD6310 or get the cheapest discrete GC
AMD is also working on making programs that will benefit from parallel processing from the IGP..
The Zacate is still a raw product..expect it to get better when it reduces to 32nm and gets 4 cores

Bulldozer Enhanced is already planned..



http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2011/...s-unveiled.aspx

Packaging information on Bulldozer leaked..

I hope that the current Bulldozer can be just as good as Sandy Bridge..I might just as well wait a little while more for the better Bulldozer version

I don't think there would be anymore delays..too much info that suggest that it is coming already
Slight delay is better than having to spend 1 billion to recall bugged chipsets..1 billion is pocket change for Intel but a 1 billion blunder can destroy AMD

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/list.aspx...&jid=10&p=2&v=2
Time to drool..AM3+ boards are here

This post has been edited by dma0991: Mar 14 2011, 09:04 PM

I agree with this..pretty hard for Bulldozer to keep up with what Intel has to offer in the desktop space because of Intel's tick tock principle..
However Llano is very promising..Llano is taking advantage of ATI's GPU R&D..5 years of work are coming together now

http://www.hardwarezone.com/tech-news/view/156140
http://www.informationweek.com/news/hardwa...RSSfeed_IWK_All
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2...-microprocessor
http://www.eeherald.com/section/news/nws20110313b9.html
http://www.crn.com/news/components-periphe...SUSw**.ecappj03
http://www.crn.com/news/components-periphe...off-in-2011.htm
http://www.product-reviews.net/2011/03/16/...ideal-solution/
http://socialbarrel.com/amd-chips-boost-ie...rformance/4976/

Lock the thread in Hardware Q&A and discuss here instead..
I recommend that you get what you want to get now instead of waiting for Ivy Bridge..Ivy Bridge is much better as an upgrade path
In 2012 Ivy Bridge will come out then following the tick tock principle in 2013 Haswell will come out and most probably the end for LGA1155..
So better to buy Sandy Bridge now and enjoy the performance..if you're feeling itchy then only upgrade to Ivy Bridge

No news on the Socket FM1..since it has an IGP I think it requires its own socket like LGA1156/1155 compared to LGA1366/2011
But hopefully AMD does not make it a BGA type like the AMD Zacate and permanently mounted to the motherboard..
The upgrade potential of that is zero and so is the value of the processor..BGA may work for laptops but they shouldn't make it for desktop Llano

But I wonder why is there Llano for desktop anyways..I've always have the impression that Llano should be strictly be in the mobile space
There is a lot of hype of GEMs or graphic enabled microprocessors for laptops which I think Llano will shine the best at..
From what I can guess the Llano APU can save more power compared to a conventional setup and may reduce the cost of making laptops..
Not to mention hybrid Crossfire can also work if there is Llano APU + Radeon mobile GPU..
Makes more sense also because I don't see people changing CPUs or GPUs in their mainstream laptops at all..so Llano should be good for the mobile market

Not saying that it couldn't be as a replacement for the Athlon II..I would say it is like a direct competition to the H67 Intel SB
Llano will be in the cheaper range and provides IGP..and most probably offer overclocking potential at the same time
Pretty sure there are many who wants a computer not for gaming only..maybe a media PC and that is where Llano comes in
But finally AMD is doing something right by working with software developers to make the best of their hardware..example IE9,Firefox and Chrome
As of now there is not much info about Socket FM1 but I do hope it is a conventional socket like the LGA or PGA where the user can upgrade the processor easily

From what I can gather the Socket FM1 should be for notebooks..so in fact Llano is going to aim the mobile market first
I think after it is successful in the mobile market it will move on to desktop when it integrates Bulldozer modules into Llano..
The Socket FM1 is a micro PGA so my guess the whole range of Llano will be in PGA instead of BGA..luckily it is in PGA form that means it is upgradable



The motherboard manufacturers claim that their AM3 boards can support Bulldozer processors with a BIOS update..
AMD has not confirmed this yet but I think you can use a Bulldozer processor on an AM3 socket motherboard..
The motherboard might be ready but not for sale yet..

Don't hope on cheap prices from AMD already as they have brought back the FX series and most probably their top of the line 8 core processor will be very expensive..
I am expecting that 8 core to outperform current SB offerings but at the same time cost more than the Core i7 2600K as well..I doubt it will be priced on par or lower than Core i7 2600K just to compete with it

I know they are not aiming for the enthusiasts market like the LGA2011/LGA1366..LGA1366 might make sense because it is still cheap
If you scale the price of SB as mid range and SB-E as high end the SB-E would easily be somewhere 1k++ for the processor alone..
I've seen the list of features that SB-E has and I don't think AMD will sacrifice backwards compatibility for oversized socket and quad channel DDR3..
Bulldozer performance seems a little bit vague currently because AMD has not even released much info about it..
But from the architecture side it is actually a different approach than Intel's and 8 core is actually 4 modules which should equal 4 cores to Intel..
I will come to expect many would say that Intel's 4 core is superior to AMD's 8 core instead of looking at how it should be looked at..4 modules not 8 cores
Even more so the Bulldozer module without the L2 cache has the same die space as a single SB core..so a module should be compared with Intel's single core
I am also waiting for the 6 core but AMD marketing team is stupid for making me and the whole market wait..
Llano will not enter the desktop market yet but it should aim for the laptop market first..E-350 low end laptops are going as cheap as some netbooks already

I suppose that could be a possibility as with the previous version of IGP where it is integrated on the motherboard instead had hybrid crossfire as in IGP + discrete..
So there can be a possibility that such hybrids will come out again..



Crysis 2 on the E-350..anyone interested in playing ultra low almost playable settings?

The reason that I posted it here is just to show that the E-350 can play Crysis 2 although not at the optimal settings that you would come to expect of Crysis 2..
Considering that this is a netbook and you could at least play games pretty much anywhere although at reduced settings..

Most probably somewhere near July 20th as that is the release date of the Bulldozer CPU..

That prices don't make the E-350 attractive anymore..I'd rather see like the Acer version where the notebook version and the netbook version is not even more than RM100 price difference..
The Acer notebook with E-350 is like RM1349 I last saw it..when it first came out it was like RM1600+ and the price not tempting at all back then..but now price drop so much

Not too sure about the pricing but it should be placed accordingly to what it is supposed to compete with..not too sure about how to gauge that a 6 core BD will beat a 4 core SB because it depends on the test done
Fingers crossed that the performance is worth the wait..

On the other hand Llano is shipping already most probably to ODM..expect to see Llano based devices after Bulldozer comes out
http://blogs.amd.com/fusion/2011/04/04/%E2...pu-is-shipping/
http://www.hardocp.com/news/2011/04/04/amd...o_apu_shipping/



AMD Llano coming to a laptop soon..desktop version most probably available next year when they refresh their Llano with Bulldozer modules

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-llano...mple,12549.html

Llano will be at its best with notebooks as most desktop users would rather rely on a discrete GPU to offer them the performance they need for gaming..
There is no link of course but there will be a refresh like I said with Bulldozer modules..since it is an APU it will also use its own socket rather than AM3/AM3+
The desktop version I am not 100% sure but I am pretty sure they will as there is a market for users that want a budget PC that is faster than Zacate..

Those kind of videos are better taken with a grain of salt as the tests are made to show that Llano is better than SB..
In actual fact Intel's processor is actually a lot better compared to AMD's Stars but this test is loading more on the video and graphical based applications..
So actually this test is to show that AMD Llano can handle those multitasking loads as the video processing is offloaded to its GPU making the CPU handle other tasks..
The SB however has to handle all of the load on its own and no matter how powerful it may be..if you make any processor do all the work it will slow down
If Llano CPU portion is made to do all 100% of the workload in that test it will suffer about the same problems as well so the star of the show is the GPU..
Bulldozer will come in June but Llano if I am not mistaken would be released the month after..now it is only shipped to OEM partners to assemble it to laptops

Obviously for the desktop version it will have a PCIE slot to use a discrete GPU..even the Zacate have a PCIE 4x so I don't see why Llano won't have at least PCIE 16x
I think that the GPU on the Llano APU will also be in a hybrid Crossfire with a compatible Radeon GPU to switch between the 2 GPU depending on workloads..

The HD3000 can do hardware acceleration but I have seen some said that that Llano GPU could offer 2-3x more performance compared to a HD3000..
I am guessing as well some power saving from having the GPU on the same die as opposed to having it on the motherboard..every milli Watt counts to laptops
However I have seen an increase in collaboration between AMD and software manufacturers so that those softwares can take advantage of the APU..
This is a good step by AMD as there is no point in having a good hardware but on the software side it is not utilizing it..
If Llano can be sold for less than 2k it would definitely be a hit for the mainstream consumers..
That is also why that the market is speculated to have an increase in GEMs..that also should mean the end for AM3+ socket for Zambezi
Maybe they will introduce a single socket type for Trinity and Komodo APU..


This post has been edited by dma0991: Apr 12 2011, 09:35 PM

At least now they have native support for USB 3.0..not too sure as to whether Thunderbolt will takeoff or not as there are so many devices out there compatible with USB
If Intel manages to force all OEM to implement the Thunderbolt then there is a possibility it could be the successor to USB..
But then again Thunderbolt is so fast I doubt any device can actually gain additional performance as devices such as HDD is not fast enough to keep up..
Definitely not all their products will be under the FX moniker and will be priced accordingly..
If AMD decides to price it at a level of LGA2011 X79 they will just dig their grave because it is too expensive for the mainstream market..
Bulldozer should be priced according to SB prices..according to this chart also you won't see a whole complete system won't cost a lot and not priced $1k+ per CPU

Zacate was only a proof of concept that Fusion is suitable for the market..it does well in the netbook and low cost notebook market
Llano will obviously be better than Zacate because it is not built for low power consumption like Zacate at 18W..Intel SB GPU is not that bad either
The HD6450 is a discrete GPU but it is also part of Llano which has HD6410-HD6550 so you can expect similar or better performance..


This post has been edited by dma0991: Apr 28 2011, 05:14 AM

Actually that came from ASRock..not too sure if it applies to all AM3+ board from all manufacturers but about the pin hole is definitely for all AM3+ boards

http://www.asrock.com/news/events/2011AM3+/



June 1 (Computex) - Llano announcement + 900 series chipset launch + Vision 2011
June 7 (E3) - FX Bulldozer launch + AM3+ motherboards launch

^ That is not an accurate indicator of performance as PCMark Vantage is capped at 4 cores or threads. That is why you can see that Core i3 2100 2C/4T and Core i5 2300 4C/4T has a very close score against the Core i7 2600K 4C/8T. So that means that actually the score for the AMD FX 8 core is using only 4 cores to produce that score which matches the Core i7 2600K with 4 physical cores running but HT off due to the 4 core or thread limitation of PCMark Vantage.