http://sc2rep.com/replays/%28P%29Tek_vs_%2...9FGwraith/17204


playing around with mech TvP. check it out. quite noob friendly low apm strategy.

basic run through. 1-1-1 cloak banshee opening, after 1st banshee and cloak, expand.

when you are in 2 base, play marine banshee thor compo with 1 raven. ( make 1 raven after 1st banshee). you wont die, this compo is damn strong. 1 reactor rax + 2 fact thor + 1 starport banshee.

make 3rd CC and make ghost academy make techlab on rax, give reactor to a new factory. make 2 more factory. now you have 4 factory, 1 with reactor. starport banshee and 1 rax for constant ghost production. research siege mode and preignitor.

you dont need to attack, just wait for him to attack.

1 base is 1-1-1
2 base is banshee thor marine
3 base is siege tank hellion ghost. (with the thor you made in 2 base, you dont need to produce thor in late game cuz they wont die)

note when engagement
if got raven, snipe obs, banshee all cloak. siege tank sieged up, hellion thor meat shield, ghost emp and cloak.
dont attack, they will come attack you.
you will have alot of mineral once you are in 3 base because 6 gas is too little. mass PF and orbital command. make PF at choke points, orbital behind. PFs are DAMN GOOD. like shakuras, antiga shipyard kind of map, you just put PF at choke points, they are damn cheap. 550 mineral and 150 gas i think? 150 gas is like a siege tank only, or half a thor. but you get a friggin PF. your PF, thor and hellion is to buy time for your tanks behind to do dmg. so PF is the best meat shield.ravens pdd = all stalker useless.

skill lvl to execute. can be used in all lvl of play, you probably only need 70% of your opponent apm to be able to win him. quiet user friendly for noobs like me. hehe.

upgrade
p/s need to sneak in double armoury but i havent thought of WHERE to put it. if your opponent got alot of zealot and collosus, upgrade armour b4 attack because zealot and collosus atack twice.

i missed it. well exam is tomorrow lol i still need to get my ass back my books. i still dont know how to survive with reactor hellion opening, its damn hard x.x but tehn my expo will be earlier. and i might be able to secure a tank hellion viking force.

owh, you are open to use blue flame runby/drop and cloak banshee harass probe line while turtling. as all terran players will know, if you try to BFH drop 5 times, 1 successful one is enuf to win you the game.

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Added on January 10, 2012, 8:58 amimmortal and archon weakness is ghost. in late game you need about 10 ghost. and the point of engagement is snipe obs then ur banshee can deal extra dmg. but then the clear weakness of this build is mothership recall + blink stalker + warp prisms, any kind of multiprong attack. so you can only do this on map that can turtle 3 base in a tight triangle. then turrent ring + sensor tower.

This post has been edited by quest_5692: Jan 10 2012, 08:58 AM

lol MVP is like the smarter version of coca. game 2 purposely 4 rax all in nestea. to go for game 3?

exactly

yeap this is how i do it. when it become mature, obviously both party need to be on equal level of skill and 50% 50% chance for both like marine tank vs muta ling.

i think blink stalker will f*** up noober opponent really well...as mothership recall and warp prisms can be shut down via turrent ring. (lol BW turrent ring) well for player who play BW b4, its exactly the same concept other than vulture mine become cloak banshee and now you have wonder ghost. vulture run by and just turtle until 200/200 +2+2 and a move to win.

and i realize, mech need more hotkeys, its quite micro demanding for a 1TA terran like me. ghost emp, raven pdd, banshee cloak, sinege tank siege focus, snipe obs, hellion kite...and cloak banshee + snipe obs is the key in sc2 mech tvp because if both player trade army evenly. lets say 200/200 to 120 each, protoss can just warp in 15 zealot and eat up ur small mech count at home. mech will only shine in larger numbers. so you can use ur cloak banshee to buy time, let opponent cant attack you right away. they need to wait for new obs to come out.


and i just realize obs got the lowest attack priority o0o so you must individually click on it.

well goody is lol. but then he is a good example, wif his awfully low apm, he can only be a pro because he play mech...as in, mech gives you the furthest edge if you know how to play it well. it has the lowest apm requirement most of the time. *i think*

multiprong attack like WP will be useless after u secure 3 base with sensor tower and turrent rings. (other than blink stalkers) and ur only mobile army is hellion which dont do well against stalker.....owh well, you just need to survive till 200/200, flash style.

a 3 base turtle style map is important. like a tight triangle. and preferably can put PF at choke point. maps like bel shir beach is mind f*** for mech.

a problem im still pondering with is the instant tech switches. after an engagement, if he cleared my ravens, then he will warp in stakler, if he cleared most of my hellions, he will warp in stalkers. so cloak banshee is still the key.

my playstyle is inspired by villeillusion. check his stream to learn more lol. he play mech tvp every game.

well 1 thing for sure, if goody play marine with his apm, baneling will just roll in yo.

they dont friendly fire. actually the best way to get rid of baneling is tank focus fire. it actually make a big difference when you engage, your tank you right click the middle of the baneling ball. cz normal tank ai will just hit the 1st nearest baneling, which will only dmg very few banelings. if you aim the middle of the pack, it will kill about twice as much banes.

mix in ghost. mech + ghost.

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Added on February 15, 2012, 4:25 pmthats how terran works in tvp....but then protoss in late game as long as you get your upgrades and tech up into a desirable ball, just move in crush his bio, then dun wait adi, proceed push into the base. terran will not have enuf time to recreate the same ball again.

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Added on February 15, 2012, 4:25 pmterran bio ball need some time to build up although they are cheap.

This post has been edited by quest_5692: Feb 15 2012, 04:25 PM

chinese gamer, quite good in warcraft 3 last time.

a 40 mins game @.@ means the result will not come down to 1 major mistake. both player must had traded mistakes lol. anyway i would like to point out a few things.

1st, you opened gas first, your opponent rax first, his factory only started when yours is about half way done. yet his banshee reach earlier than you by a f***load of time. and both of you finish cloak at same time. gas first cloak rush is supposed to be much faster, means your build order got fatal mistake if its in higher league. gas first will sacrifice alot of economy. see when his banshee reach your base, he had alot more scv than you (24 to 20 i think and 6 on gas which means alot cuz 18 scv vs 12scv is 50% more mineral) but then your banshee management is far better than his. his banshee dealt little dmg, yours dealt alot. so it kinda evened up already.

2nd, after the banshee thing and both kinda settle down in 2 base. both of you have 1 factory constant siege tank production but he have 4 tanks when you have 2. if he had attacked at that moment, you are in big trouble. why he have 4? because his macro is better than you, you need to fix this. dont supply block yourself. a good indicator is when you block at 62/62 supply, he had 74/78 and is shooting up further to 80+ but you are still waiting for your depot to finish.

3rd, when you do your doom drop, notice you are already very far behind initially. he was at 177 supply and you just passed 150 i think. but you did more dmg than you expected and supply blocked him. so you kinda caught up in supply by abit by then. its also worth to notice that you had not make any viking production before this point. only 1 viking.

4th, all the while, your scv count is very low. you did not make constant scv production after about 15 min~ so even you had 10+ scv kill in your banshee opening, he caught up very fast in scv count. and you were about 10 scv less than him all the time. (which means he outproduce 20 scv from you in the course of 10 in game minute something worth noting) less scv = less income = less supply. get?

5th, the tank marine movement in the middle. i paused and checked. he had 15 tanks, you have 12. he had 2-2 you have 1-1, he have 9 vikings you have 5. but you have 45 rines, he have 30+.....and unfortunately marine count is the least important in this 4. his 3-3 is also 20% done by that time. and he was constantly producing army and you are not. (macro problem)

6th, your sudden mass viking is a good move. suddenly you have like 10 viking he have only 1-2, and you use your high gorund advantage and viking advantage to slow push. beccause of that you had overtake him in supply. but thats partially due to his BC transition. when you see the BC, you should make more vikings and not sacing them to the ground 3-3 marines of his. big engagemnt mistake there.

7th, you had 4 reactored starport, you could have constantly make 8 vikings at a time and outproduce your opponent but you didnt. well, you have like 11 marines left to hit air and near to 0 vikings. at this time, you should back off your tanks and wait for a few rounds of vikings. keep them!! not make 8, then die to his 20 vikings, then make 8 more then die again. queue up your viking productions dont waste 5 sec in between and dont waste them to your enemy, keep them in your base, wait till you have more and attack back. you surely will outproduce your opponent. you had 1k mineral 500 gas floating most of the time, use them on vikigns!

basically at stage 1,2 you were massively behind of your opponent (early game)

stage 2,3,4,5 you used your marine tank management to win important engagements and it brought you ahead. if you continue to push in, you will win. but you need to make more army! dont stop making them cuz they are good. (mid game skirmish)

stage 6,7 his sky terran transition totally owned you but that might be caused of your inexperience to deal with it. when his viking count is too big, you are on your macro death bed already. its just a matter of time till you lose, even the drastic base trade wouldnt change much as you can see. how to deal with it? tanks become not important anymore other than to hold his marines back from firing your vikings. if you need to, drop or sac tanks to his expo to free up supply for your vikings. you need more vikings and have a larger death ball. thats about it. (late game)

This post has been edited by quest_5692: Feb 19 2012, 08:11 PM

its mainly depends on your past games. the 1 game you play will not effect from what i know....sometimes i lose the 1 placement match i still get promotions because i played well last season.

terran with 1 bunker on top of ramp and scv repair can NEVER lose to a 4 gate all in IMO....

p/s ok you might die if his 1st push got includes 2 sentry to block repair....but its very unlikely, i encountered once

how to defend a 4 gate all in with ANY build.

1) when you scout him. check how many mana left in his nexus. this is like the easiest way to scout for a 4 gate. your scv can stay in his base until he make a stalker. see how he use his chronoboost. if he used all on his nexus to make probe, he is giong to 1 gate FE, if he use it on gate and core, and still have extra energy saved up, its a push incoming.

2) now leave his base b4 stalker is out (normal timing for stalker is 4.20~ ithink...4-4.20) hide your scv at his 3rd base or wherever you think he acnt find you. not watch tower, not outside his base, somewhere hidden.

3) make sure you make a bunker before 4.30 because stalkers are imba. they can eat marine all the long unless you have more than 1 barracks.

4) wait for his stalker to hit your base or 5 min mark, whichever come 1st. the hidden scv str8 go into his base. if it is a 4 gate all in, his base will have no unit, only 4 gates warping in. now you got a free scout. if you see sentry or a nexus, then you know a 4 gate push is not coming.

5) so its a 4 gate. put marines in your bunker, put scv behind to repair. seriously, if its a 4 gate, you just park your scv there, as long as you hold, theres no way you are going to lose. you can easily defend it with 1 rax FE or cloak banshee or anything. if you are playing 2-3 rax, just push out at around 5.30, if you can catch his outside pylon, you have a high chance of supply block him or even cancel his warp in. then he will left with 1 stalker 1 zealot raedy to gg. you can even push earlier and put bunker rush him. because a 4 gate is most vunerable when WG research is not complete

This post has been edited by quest_5692: Feb 22 2012, 11:26 AM

your choke is 2 depot 1 bunker? i had nvr had any problem defending 3 gate VR as long as after 1 rax FE i put 2 mroe rax right away. (some ppl put 2 gas 1st only 2 more rax) then constant marine production. actually by the time you put down the 2 mroe rax you must determine what build your opponent is going adi (actually earlier, the 2nd scv scout is damn important, you need to know what he is doing). if they didnt expand, hell no way am i going to make any stupid marauders. in early game defending rush, you dont need marauders, maybe 1 or 2 max. most important is still marine. because theres 3 dangerous all in that might come, 3 gate void ray, 3 gate immortal or 4 gate warp prisms. marines are good against VR and immortal but not marauders. with enough marines, you can hold it off easier. a ball of 25 marine + scv is much easier to hold than let say 6 marauder 8 marine and scv.

i rarely make marauder but when i make, i make sure he is going fast nexus and am planning to make a small poke.


to defend it with 1-1-1 is abit more tricky because you will not have enough marine and if your bunker go down you are gone. you need to stall until you make 1 viking out of your starport...im not very experienced with that but then 1 rax FE vs VR all in still come down to micro alot....i rmb once i forgot to cahgne back my race, on tal darim i got PvT i just 3 gate VR the terran and i just outmicroed him...like VR can come in go out along the ledge, marine cant hit you, when they commit, sentry down there put forcefield to trap, or even put forcefield let marine cant hit you while you charge on depot...alot of things can do but terran should micro properly too, not just 1A your way to victory....

This post has been edited by quest_5692: Feb 22 2012, 11:44 AM

if you know he is coming, as i said. park scv at bunker. worth it. you dont want to save that few secs of mining time and lose the game right. normally i will put 1 more scv just outside my base to see when he is camping outside my base. and when he is relaly coming, lower depot and put 2-3 scv in front of bunker to full surround repair.

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Added on February 22, 2012, 2:38 pmas ian had said, dont rush to viking off 1 rax FE. just do heavy rax. (this is the only safe thing you can do after you scouted he is going to all in you) if you scouted expo nexus, then you can go ahead and take 2 gas off 1 rax. then plant factory starport etc....

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Added on February 22, 2012, 2:42 pmyeah, recently protoss are doing so good is because of all these 2 base immortal sentry shits. T.T see ST parting. they can even fake a push and go for 3 base 8 gate timing T.T


anyway thats the 2nd stage of the game adi. in this stage. terran without medivac or ghost will just outright die IMO...and i personally prefer ghost over medivac in current trend of immortal sentry play. medivac play will really significantly drop your bio ball. ghost play can easily counter sentry immortal bust but the problem is you can only stim once or twice. thats way tooo risky but depends on user also. medivac is more user friendly....and marauders are really not that good in this point of time too...because of the 2-3 immortals..

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Added on February 22, 2012, 2:44 pmi personally thinks that timing you said kinda counters 3 rax reactor medivac play because of timing problem...the medivacs will just be too late....

terran's counter to that is 2 base 4-5 rax marine production, put techlab research combat shield and ghost academy. when p[ush reach, got 2 EMP ready, combat shield and stim.

This post has been edited by quest_5692: Feb 22 2012, 02:44 PM

with superior micro, very far.

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Added on February 22, 2012, 7:12 pmFlampard and jeff, see keen vs ace today game 2 at cloud kingdom, he 1 rax FE, make up to 4 rax. sneaky 2nd scv scout scouted no nexus, go up ram into base, see everything, know all in must be coming although the stargate is proxied. so he just + 3 more bunker, park scv there wait for the attack, put 1 marine/scv outside to scout when the attack is coming. now ace attack also lose, dont attack also lose.

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Added on February 22, 2012, 7:13 pmyour opponent cannot have unit on top of the ramp to stop you from scouting if he wants to attack...but anyway if he stay in 1 base, it must be smtg up, dt, vr, immortal....just make alot of marine. keen had 1 marauder only.

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Added on February 22, 2012, 7:53 pmdear terran, a GM terran wrote this in a forum.

二气低能量-隐刀；二气高能量-虚空；单气高能量-4bg，单气低能量-开矿 <--- advice for lower league players or simpler metagame.

This post has been edited by quest_5692: Feb 22 2012, 07:58 PM

energy = chronoboost
hidden knife is DT
void is void ray
4bg is 4 gate
mining means FE

its a chinese forum.

3 gate VR is so good on metropolis, can hit high ground and ff the ramp. the million dollar FF to bust bunker then can hit main mineral from low ground.

wonder why alive wants to play macro game with genius -___- just 2 rax bunker him or some ghost rush for god sake.

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Added on February 23, 2012, 5:44 pmalive saw the proxy stargate!

This post has been edited by quest_5692: Feb 23 2012, 05:44 PM

the drop management is just okay -__- it wasnt even a dangerous drop lol. the delay won him the game. the antiga game is like a zvt lol. break siege contain and all the way/

genius is perfect in pvt late game deathball control. on top of any other protoss.


gumiho game one amazed me. early to mid game, DRG played well and gumiho defended well in a way he didnt lose too much to muta harrass. i would say both of them are just as good.

the moment gumiho made thor and decide to move out is where he really shines and outplayed DRG, his game management is just SUPERB AMAZING CRAZY. @.@ so many things happening and he manage to perfect every aspect out. mmaish drops, denying outer expo with marine thors, defend 3rd base from run by with tanks and marine, save 3rd expo from run by and still pushing in furiously didnt skip a beat, dont let DRG have a second to regroup his army. amazing late game push by gumiho.