need to ask some stupid question, which units consider as armored in zerg ? as long as its armor > 0 (or upgraded armor consider armored) ?

a thor can chew my mutas easily, they do massive amount of damage and its area damage, but it can only do half to armored, so even i do armor upgrades to level 3 also couldnt help much ? I think thors are a bit over powered, just few of them can kill tons of my hydras, mutas and roaches!! was having the total map control until these comes out and they can just walk into my base and kill everything on the way.

1 thor maybe, but 3 or more, thats impossible with ANY amount, cause they do area damage and they can shoot from very far, that means few thors once they shoot, and those mutas are pack together, they are all dead no matter what is the amount.

by what do you mean magic box ?

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Added on September 2, 2010, 4:17 pmi think tonite ill start an easy custom game against a terran, defeat the terran, but dont end the game, then take over a scv, start making terran bases and try all the light/armored test.

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Added on September 2, 2010, 4:19 pmgimme the link of that video plz

This post has been edited by narf03: Sep 2 2010, 04:19 PM

thank you evofantasy for the video, i see how i should have used my mutas, i do attack them from distance, so they packed together, I didnt know the area damage range is so small, i will try again when i see some thors, but spreading mutas like that will also take other damage from other things like turrets, bunkers, etc. but still i think better than let the thor do so much area damage. Area damage for siege tank is much lower for anything beside the main target, seems thors are different, they do equivalent damage.

Recently won a game where my opponent go roaches only, so i do the same roaches only, but i rush for air units, saving gas and mineral b4 the spire complete, put up spine crawlers, spawning some extra larvae and make enough overlords, once the spire tower complete, 10 mutas making on the way.
The game ends in another 3-5 mins once i got my mutas, killed some of his overlords that i can see, then attack the queen, he send out all his roaches but i got my spine crawlers plus some roaches, so i can defend easily, he quit the game once he lost all his roaches.
That was a game of speed, if he got mutas 1st, i might have lose the game, but my advantage will be, all 10 of them will be out at the same time.

watch your replay, kind of funny seeing those drones running from banelings, maybe you kill lesser if they just ignore you, kind of a bit expensive using those banelings, cost like 50/50 each and you need 2 of these to make kill, so its 100/100 for each batch of kill, you need to at least kill like 5 of them(to me gas is a bit more expensive) to make 2 of your banelings worth, not mentioning those sacrificed on those zerglings and being killed by the spine. But anyway you slow their economy alot, and the queen will have to work harder =). learned something from your replay, didnt know that hiding an overlord right behind enemy mineral line and they cant noticed it. wondering why so many zerg likes to put their buildings ie pool spire etc behind those mineral line ?

baneling drops with overlord take too long, it require lair and 2 research on overlord, or it will take ages to fly into enemy base and the enemy got plenty time to shoot it down b4 it enters the base, better still go spire and mutas.

seldom use nydus, didnt know about it, what if you have 2 nydus and only 1 of them get destroyed ?

got a question, if a protoss put a pylon in your base, ie you are zerg, should you just ignore it and rush out zerglings ? if you are doing a 14 pool, and the process of making the pool is only 50%, then the protoss put a pylon, what is the chance your zerglings can handle the job instead of grabbing your dones onto the pylon ?

a pylon, anything is possible, you wont know its a cannon rush or proxy gateway until the pylon is complete and the probe drop another building or some zealots or stalkers jumping in. The question is pretty simple, you making a pool at 14, and a probe didnt knock your door, drop a pylon or 2 in your base b4 you even have your 1st ling or queen, what is your response ?

i was in kinda big problem if the probe just drop pylons, if i send drones attack the pylon, he drop another and when i was about to destroy the 1st 1, he cancelled it so he only lose 25 mineral for cancelling, but i send out drones where they cant mine for quite long period of time. and for spine crawler, i dont know where should i put them, imagine there is a pylon north of your base, 1 west, 1 east, and 1 south, his troops can come from anywhere =P and if i put right next to hatchery, then he stop sending in zealots but stalkers and attack drone from distance. lose a game cause of unable to survive the unpredictable rush and i was dumb spending drones on pylons.

so the best method is ignore it and wait until your lings are out and mass ling then overpower them and then only destroy all of those pylons and gateways(if there are any) ?

vs computer is alot easier than vs human, if you played enough against computer, you will definitely know their style, ~6min after game they do the 1st attack, then ~11min, they sure come again, the 1st attack they will come from the main entrance, and the 2nd attack onwards, they will try backdoor ie rock. but playing against human is totally different, they dont follow rules =P So if i vs computer, i dont need to have defense b4 the 6 min mark, but if human, better you keep minimum amount.

To defend against any AI and you are a zerg, it depends on how many AI are there, if there are only 2 hard, then troops will be enough(roaches) and control the entrance. If 3 hard and got a main entrance, you will need spine crawlers. My build order or action for spine crawler defense:

Game start
1) move the starting overlord to main entrance where you need to have defense.
2) keep building drones and your 2nd overlord(and rally the overlord to the defense area 2)
3) if got rich mineral nearby(and no rock blocking), expand early(in your territory)
4) pool then instantly 2 extractor
5) keep making drones non-stop
6) extractor complete b4 the pool, start mining gas, 3 drones each extrator
7) collect enough 100 gas for lair upgrade(if timing is correct, you should get 100 right after pool complete, within 3-5 seconds)
8) upgrade lair
9) drag drones back from extractor and mining mineral
10) if got rich mineral base, and it about to complete, drag all drones to mine rich mineral
11) if got rich mineral base, make a queen
12) keep making drones, you will need many, and overlord when needed
13) when lair about to complete, pull drones to defense area, make queen later, you need the mineral
14) overlord create creep, then make spine crawlers in big number, ie 10-14 of them
this build order, i have done it many times, and conclusion is, if you are slow, u wont be able to make it on time and enemy will be whacking your unfinished spine crawlers, if its done on time, it can take out huge number of troops without any help. And if got rich mineral, you can keep making hydras non-stop with the 2 bases. btw this build order wont work on human, cause so far i havent see any idiots send their ground troop whacking this amount if spine crawlers which packed together. from this onwards, go mass hydras, rally behind the spine crawlers, if got ally, they should be able to take out 1 of the AI at this time.

lets discuss about air-defence

I think zerg is a bit slow to produce anti-air, the only unit that has the ability to attack air early on should be queen. other races got their anti-air early on like terran, their marine, and protoss, the stalker, for terran, there is no way you can build air unit faster than their marine so we dont need to talk about it. the stalker, they just need a gateway then a core, then can start production d. for zerg, unless you wanna defend air via queen, else you will need hydra, and to produce hydra it need pool, lair, hydra den, then only can make hydra.

Resource wise protoss need 350(gate+core)min to have the ability to start making stalkers, but zerg, need 500/200(pool+lair+den), thats double the resource needed compare to protoss.

The next thing we should look into the speed of making air unit to attack the other races, for terran, they need barrack, factory, then starport. only 3 building b4 they can have viking, in order to attack land units, they need add-on. For protoss, they need gateway, core, then stargate, then they can produce void rays. For zerg, they need pool, lair, spire then can produce mutas. its not much different here. speed wise almost the same.

Consider this situation, a game PvZ, if the protoss only have gateway and all the while using zealots, and discovered zerg has mutas, they just need to build core then they can start counter mutas. What if zerg was all the way using roaches, and they saw void rays ? they need to upgrade lair drop a hydra den then only they can start counter air, i think its a bit unfair here since zerg simply take too long to start producing something actually work against air. For protoss, their cannon can vs air, and maybe they didnt build it intentionally against air, maybe its for defending against land unit but it also can defend against air, as for zerg, your spine crawlers are awesome against land, they can move, they can regen hp, but they are useless against air. your hope still fall back to hydras, which takes too long or too many steps to create. I feel zerg need some better anti-air capability unit early on in the game.

This post has been edited by narf03: Sep 7 2010, 03:27 PM

no roaches are weak against terran's marauders, marauder can do 20 damage per shot to roaches, and slow them down and attack at the range of 6, if you massed roaches, i think the terran suppose to have at least 25% amount of your roaches, which is enough to defend the entrance, unless the terran didnt turtled up and didnt kite your roaches =P

maybe worth it, the extrator is 75 mineral, it has 2 benefit, slow down enemy making an extractor thus slow down anything that need alot of gas, and it provide vision for as long as the extractor survive, and drag some of their firepower away from entrance(incase you want to rush)

oh sorry i misunderstood, that method i do use as well, but not that often, i dont use it at 12/10, i do use it when i accidentally created drone and the unit count just left 1 and i need queen fast, then i do build extractor then cancel, cause delay making queen is quite serious set back, and i dont wanna cancel the drone cause larvae are rare, i rather lose 25% of an extractor, even i do use to make chamber and cancel too if the unit count i need urgently or even in middle game i do kill 1 of my unit if i need that count urgent.

usually just put overlord stay there and dont move, do not stand right middle in the expansion, put it further away, you just need to see the mineral, only take action when you spot scv mining those minerals, so basically doing this, u can see them and they cant see you.

cause ppl didnt enjoyed the game, usually 6 ppl can end the game pretty fast, b4 another other race have their 1st troop, b4 terran seal the entrance.