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 blu ray movie titles, how to tell if pirated or genuine?

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TSdaryl.k
post Aug 2 2010, 12:33 PM, updated 16y ago

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hi guys,

i'm just wondering if its possible to tell a fake i.e. pirated blu ray title from a genuine title?

the reason is...i've been purchasing from a seller, here in LYN...and his price is always cheaper than other sellers...some titles almost the same price as pirated BD sellers...so it kinda makes me wonder if i'm actually getting conned..or am i getting a real deal?

and i've also tried a pirated title borrowed to me by a friend...and its the exact same as a genuine title...even the packaging's the same...

is there any way of identifying from the look of it?

and since i'm on this pirated vs genuine title issue....i've been meaning to ask for opinions:

Which is less noble?

1) purchasing pirated movies
2) downloading movie titles off the net

This post has been edited by daryl.k: Aug 2 2010, 12:35 PM
chewkl
post Aug 2 2010, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(daryl.k @ Aug 2 2010, 12:33 PM)
hi guys,

i'm just wondering if its possible to tell a fake i.e. pirated blu ray title from a genuine title?

the reason is...i've been purchasing from a seller, here in LYN...and his price is always cheaper than other sellers...some titles almost the same price as pirated BD sellers...so it kinda makes me wonder if i'm actually getting conned..or am i getting a real deal?

and i've also tried a pirated title borrowed to me by a friend...and its the exact same as a genuine title...even the packaging's the same...

is there any way of identifying from the look of it?

and since i'm on this pirated vs genuine title issue....i've been meaning to ask for opinions:

Which is less noble?

1) purchasing pirated movies
2) downloading movie titles off the net

*
3) Downloading from internet then selling it for a profit. laugh.gif
azbro
post Aug 2 2010, 01:06 PM

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I dun know how a pirated Bluray looks like cause never bought one...but if you wanna buy at a good price and original stuff....Buy from Amazon.

Regarding which is less noble..that one i got no comments..haha
opjust
post Aug 2 2010, 01:21 PM

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bluray disc got pirate meh?
putih
post Aug 2 2010, 01:26 PM

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QUOTE(opjust @ Aug 2 2010, 01:21 PM)
bluray disc got pirate meh?
*
got, since 1 yr or more ago. But BD25 only so far. RM30 can get lor. But piracy is bad ma wink.gif

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post Aug 2 2010, 01:46 PM

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Pirated Blu-ray Disc has burn mark on the disc layer. If you look at them carefully. I was once a victim (dont wanna talk bout it further).

It resembles blu-ray disc, but sometimes the cover art might be different from the actual cover art. Or it could be similar too..

You can clearly see the printed label on the BD disc. blink.gif
SUSMatrix
post Aug 2 2010, 02:00 PM

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QUOTE(daryl.k @ Aug 2 2010, 12:33 PM)
hi guys,

i'm just wondering if its possible to tell a fake i.e. pirated blu ray title from a genuine title?

the reason is...i've been purchasing from a seller, here in LYN...and his price is always cheaper than other sellers...some titles almost the same price as pirated BD sellers...so it kinda makes me wonder if i'm actually getting conned..or am i getting a real deal?

and i've also tried a pirated title borrowed to me by a friend...and its the exact same as a genuine title...even the packaging's the same...

is there any way of identifying from the look of it?

and since i'm on this pirated vs genuine title issue....i've been meaning to ask for opinions:

Which is less noble?

1) purchasing pirated movies
2) downloading movie titles off the net
*
1) Because sales from pirated disc goes to underground triad society and support other more serious illegal activities...like vices and drugs operation.

Downloading is more noble. Direct to consumer. You save money and save your society from the underground world!!! Muahahahahaha!
Ngto
post Aug 2 2010, 02:30 PM

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Isn't pirated BD-R surface dark Grey, almost black in colour?
sonerin
post Aug 2 2010, 02:40 PM

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I believe the disc size contain is different. Original BD should be 50GB and pirated is only 25GB. Not sure if this is correct.
SiriuslyCold
post Aug 2 2010, 02:50 PM

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QUOTE(Matrix @ Aug 2 2010, 02:00 PM)
1) Because sales from pirated disc goes to underground triad society and support other more serious illegal activities...like vices and drugs operation.
*
On the other hand, if you do not "contribute" to the triad society, they might get more violent...

QUOTE(Matrix @ Aug 2 2010, 02:00 PM)
Downloading is more noble.
*
Downloading is less ignoble wink.gif

QUOTE(sonerin @ Aug 2 2010, 02:40 PM)
I believe the disc size contain is different. Original BD should be 50GB and pirated is only 25GB. Not sure if this is correct.
*
you believe the size is different, but you are not sure if this is correct.

It's all a matter of faith isn't it

This post has been edited by SiriuslyCold: Aug 2 2010, 02:57 PM
trapezohedron13
post Aug 2 2010, 03:23 PM

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Wah wth, got pirated blu-ray movie! I thought only the dvd9 hd movies oni got... i also curious lar how to differentiate genuine and pirated! dun wan be paying RM70-80+ to get pirated rubbish
catalan90_V
post Aug 2 2010, 03:27 PM

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who is the seller??
TSdaryl.k
post Aug 2 2010, 03:35 PM

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QUOTE(sonerin @ Aug 2 2010, 02:40 PM)
I believe the disc size contain is different. Original BD should be 50GB and pirated is only 25GB. Not sure if this is correct.
*
the pirated movie i tested was Hurt Locker, with DTS-HD MA...i'm not entirely sure but if its a 25GB BD, shouldn't be able to hold DTS-MA..and...btw, there are many types of pirated BD in the market...some cost RM15, some cost RM35 and some RM45..RM15 are crap i was told...can even play with DVD players so its not BD...by the RM35 & 45 ones, i believe the diff is 25GB & 50GB...so, both 25GB & 50GB is also available pirated..


QUOTE(trapezohedron13 @ Aug 2 2010, 03:23 PM)
Wah wth, got pirated blu-ray movie! I thought only the dvd9 hd movies oni got... i also curious lar how to differentiate genuine and pirated! dun wan be paying RM70-80+ to get pirated rubbish
*
well...in China, you can get pirated BD for as low as RM10 each...good quality ones i was told...welcome to the real world! its been around for quite some time now...cant believe not many ppl knew about the existence...probably showing many here buying original copies!! kudos!


QUOTE(catalan90_V @ Aug 2 2010, 03:27 PM)
who is the seller??
*
cant say la....its still a suspicion for the time being...innocent till proven guilty wink.gif

oh, btw, the pirated Hurt Locker title, the back surface is almost purple in color..not black.
azbro
post Aug 2 2010, 03:39 PM

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QUOTE(catalan90_V @ Aug 2 2010, 03:27 PM)
who is the seller??
*
I hope its not me...I'm a noble pirate tongue.gif
kianwee
post Aug 2 2010, 03:43 PM

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If the blu-ray is from US, majority of the blu-rays comes with white security seal on the top of the box. Unless some really old titles like Dark Knight which recently I found there are no security seal anymore.

Did yours come with the security seal?

This post has been edited by kianwee: Aug 2 2010, 04:15 PM
xbox360ps3
post Aug 2 2010, 04:06 PM

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another possible reason is because the title you bought is UK version. it is unlikely you can buy US version cheaper than amazon US price.

by the way, what are the titles that you bought and suspect to be pirated?
Dark NT
post Aug 2 2010, 04:17 PM

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QUOTE(daryl.k @ Aug 2 2010, 12:33 PM)
Which is less noble?

1) purchasing pirated movies
2) downloading movie titles off the net
*
1) purchasing pirated movies - Hopefully this will feed the triads enough money and they don't commit more serious crimes. Also it encourages economy activities.

2) downloading movie titles off the net - This is less noble because it jams up the internet and people cannot do facebook.
chewkl
post Aug 2 2010, 04:17 PM

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QUOTE(daryl.k @ Aug 2 2010, 03:35 PM)
the pirated movie i tested was Hurt Locker, with DTS-HD MA...i'm not entirely sure but if its a 25GB BD, shouldn't be able to hold DTS-MA..and...btw, there are many types of pirated BD in the market...some cost RM15, some cost RM35 and some RM45..RM15 are crap i was told...can even play with DVD players so its not BD...by the RM35 & 45 ones, i believe the diff is 25GB & 50GB...so, both 25GB & 50GB is also available pirated..
well...in China, you can get pirated BD for as low as RM10 each...good quality ones i was told...welcome to the real world! its been around for quite some time now...cant believe not many ppl knew about the existence...probably showing many here buying original copies!! kudos!
cant say la....its still a suspicion for the time being...innocent till proven guilty  wink.gif

oh, btw, the pirated Hurt Locker title, the back surface is almost purple in color..not black.
*
Please don't let the uninformed get even more confused if U yourself don't even know for sure what is what. No offense, just my honest opinion. icon_rolleyes.gif
geforce1999
post Aug 2 2010, 05:04 PM

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QUOTE(sonerin @ Aug 2 2010, 02:40 PM)
I believe the disc size contain is different. Original BD should be 50GB and pirated is only 25GB. Not sure if this is correct.
*
Not really, original BD also have 25GB. It all depend on the contains.


Added on August 2, 2010, 5:10 pm
QUOTE(daryl.k @ Aug 2 2010, 03:35 PM)
well...in China, you can get pirated BD for as low as RM10 each...good quality ones i was told...welcome to the real world! its been around for quite some time now...cant believe not many ppl knew about the existence...probably showing many here buying original copies!! kudos!
*
Concur biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by geforce1999: Aug 2 2010, 05:10 PM
specuvestor
post Aug 2 2010, 05:16 PM

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QUOTE(Matrix @ Aug 2 2010, 02:00 PM)
1) Because sales from pirated disc goes to underground triad society and support other more serious illegal activities...like vices and drugs operation.

Downloading is more noble. Direct to consumer. You save money and save your society from the underground world!!! Muahahahahaha!
*
Interesting contorted answer but I think I have to agree tongue.gif

On a similar note anyone knows how to see if BD content is remastered properly rather than buying DVD quality on a BD storage medium, especially for older shows?


azbro
post Aug 2 2010, 05:57 PM

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Hmm...problems huh..

Sell ori stuff cheap also ppl complain, sell expensive also ppl complain..haha
SiriuslyCold
post Aug 2 2010, 07:15 PM

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Cliché now updated to v2.0: You can't please anybody at any time.
refnulf
post Aug 2 2010, 07:57 PM

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Batman Begins had no white seal either (Amazon US)


maskedchan
post Aug 2 2010, 08:48 PM

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QUOTE(kianwee @ Aug 2 2010, 03:43 PM)
If the blu-ray is from US, majority of the blu-rays comes with white security seal on the top of the box. Unless some really old titles like Dark Knight which recently I found there are no security seal anymore.

Did yours come with the security seal?
*
there is no more security seal on the top of the box if buy from amazon US...
many new title i buy no more those seal.. especially from warners studio...
kianwee
post Aug 2 2010, 09:13 PM

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QUOTE(maskedchan @ Aug 2 2010, 08:48 PM)
there is no more security seal on the top of the box if buy from amazon US...
many new title i buy no more those seal.. especially from warners studio...
*
Yeah, come to think of it, LOSER also no more seal already. Just received today. Lucky still got sleeve doh.gif


devil'z070
post Aug 2 2010, 11:17 PM

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Since we are talking about pirated BD here...i would like to know is the pirated BD can play the True HD/DTS HD sound ?

This post has been edited by devil'z070: Aug 2 2010, 11:30 PM
raymondlim
post Aug 2 2010, 11:37 PM

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Yup interested to know about this also...

Private and Ori... make any diff on?

Quality picture, sound, or....
maskedchan
post Aug 2 2010, 11:44 PM

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it will appear as DTS MA/TruHD on the AVR...
but if that a true HD audio or not...no idea
geforce1999
post Aug 2 2010, 11:57 PM

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QUOTE(devil'z070 @ Aug 2 2010, 11:17 PM)
Since we are talking about pirated BD here...i would like to know is the pirated BD can play the True HD/DTS HD sound ?
*
From what I understand some quality China pirated BD are one to one copy from original. Meaning if the original is 25GB and they use 25GB BD-R to duplicate and if the original is 50GB then they use blank 50GB BD-R to duplicate. So by doing that the BD-R should be identical as the original in term of content.

Not sure about those BD-25 in Malaysia market though.... For sure they been compressed if the original is 50GB since there is only 25GB to play with...
minimize
post Aug 3 2010, 12:05 AM

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For sure PS3 bluray game still don't have a pirate one.
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post Aug 3 2010, 12:07 AM

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QUOTE(minimize @ Aug 3 2010, 12:05 AM)
For sure PS3 bluray game still don't have a pirate one.
*
Not for long..
devil'z070
post Aug 3 2010, 12:12 AM

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if china already have pirated BD Movies...how come i cant find any china made (cap ayam) BD players ..
azbro
post Aug 3 2010, 09:01 AM

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QUOTE(sKyWiR3pT3lTd @ Aug 3 2010, 12:07 AM)
Not for long..
*
Long time oledi...until give up laugh.gif
low98944
post Aug 3 2010, 09:36 AM

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QUOTE(devil'z070 @ Aug 3 2010, 12:12 AM)
if china already have pirated BD Movies...how come i cant find any china made (cap ayam) BD players ..
*
Already got lot of them include those region free blu-ray players in China and HK market. The problem is, I didn't notice anyone bring them into Malaysia. tongue.gif

This post has been edited by low98944: Aug 3 2010, 09:37 AM
kapultek
post Aug 3 2010, 09:38 AM

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where to find pirate BD..i thought only mkv file
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post Aug 3 2010, 09:39 AM

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QUOTE(devil'z070 @ Aug 2 2010, 11:17 PM)
Since we are talking about pirated BD here...i would like to know is the pirated BD can play the True HD/DTS HD sound ?
*
If the AVR lights up with DTS-MA or TrueHD, then I guess it should be HD Sound.
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post Aug 3 2010, 10:00 AM

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After 2 pages still dunno how to differentiate the ori from pirate?
exentric_nova
post Aug 3 2010, 10:03 AM

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How about an image of the item itself? The box front & back as well as the disc front & back. IF by any chance anyone here has a confirmed original disc, can just compare and see the difference.
opjust
post Aug 3 2010, 10:03 AM

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huh! I never ever noticed a pirated BD's until I saw this thread, even my fren told me why so expensive I bought BD movie.. pirated oso got at much more cheaper price,

I replied in the most confident manner, BD where got pirated yet bro, all u saw is actually DVD one not bluray...
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post Aug 3 2010, 10:05 AM

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QUOTE(Ngto @ Aug 3 2010, 09:39 AM)
If the AVR lights up with DTS-MA or TrueHD, then I guess it should be HD Sound.
*
i thought nowadays they can remix the DTS/DD and 'fool' the AVR to show DTSMA/TruHD but infact still DTS/DD sound only?


Added on August 3, 2010, 10:08 am
QUOTE(kapultek @ Aug 3 2010, 09:38 AM)
where to find pirate BD..i thought only mkv file
*
QUOTE(opjust @ Aug 3 2010, 10:03 AM)
huh! I never ever noticed a pirated BD's until I saw this thread, even my fren told me why so expensive I bought BD movie.. pirated oso got at much more cheaper price,

I replied in the most confident manner, BD where got pirated yet bro, all u saw is actually DVD one not bluray...
*
where do you guys stay anyway?
klang valley, everywhere selling those..
SS2, summit usj, amcorp mall and few more place selling..

anyway i dont recommend buying those..
support ori pls notworthy.gif

This post has been edited by maskedchan: Aug 3 2010, 10:08 AM
low98944
post Aug 3 2010, 11:36 AM

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QUOTE(maskedchan @ Aug 3 2010, 10:05 AM)
anyway i dont recommend buying those..
support ori pls  notworthy.gif
*
thumbup.gif
idoblu
post Aug 3 2010, 11:45 AM

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if the data side on the disc is like black in colour - its pirated
if its 25gb only, then most likely pirated also
pirated Blu-rays are using BD-Rs

these are really blu-rays but pirated

then there are some that looks like "blu-rays" but are really dvds

you need to know what you are talking about ..... dont get the two confused

This post has been edited by idoblu: Aug 3 2010, 01:12 PM
firecracker
post Aug 3 2010, 11:55 AM

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can we buy from amazon?...will it be confiscated by the customs?
azbro
post Aug 3 2010, 12:25 PM

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QUOTE(firecracker @ Aug 3 2010, 11:55 AM)
can we buy from amazon?...will it be confiscated by the customs?
*
Why they wanna confiscate it?....many ppl buy oledi no problems...only some who bought a lot at one time got taxed for it.

But if it is Prawn Material inside of course kena confiscate.

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post Aug 3 2010, 12:44 PM

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QUOTE(azbro @ Aug 3 2010, 11:25 AM)
Why they wanna confiscate it?....many ppl buy oledi no problems...only some who bought a lot at one time got taxed for it.

But if it is Prawn Material inside of course kena confiscate.
*
herm..ok thanks..will try
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post Aug 3 2010, 12:50 PM

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QUOTE(idoblu @ Aug 3 2010, 11:45 AM)
if the data side on the disc is like black in colour - its pirated
if its 25gb only, then most likely pirated also
pirated Blu-rays are using BD-Rs

these are really blu-rays but pirated

then there are some "blu-rays" that are really dvds

you need to know what you are talking about ..... dont get the two confused
*
Agreed with u Bro biggrin.gif
Box color also different.
Audio for pirated are LPCM,correct me if my mistake.
Disc print out also different.
Some forumer also stated the security seal,this are from Region A.Asia Region don't have the security seal,can check it out at Speedy outlet.
Hope this will help those newer on BLURAY.
TQ
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post Aug 3 2010, 10:58 PM

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QUOTE(maskedchan @ Aug 3 2010, 10:05 AM)
i thought nowadays they can remix the DTS/DD and 'fool' the AVR to show DTSMA/TruHD but infact still DTS/DD sound only?


Added on August 3, 2010, 10:08 am
where do you guys stay anyway?
klang valley, everywhere selling those..
SS2, summit usj, amcorp mall and few more place selling..

anyway i dont recommend buying those..
support ori pls  notworthy.gif
*
well i got a friend who bought the "pirate BD" Iron Man shows DTS-HD.....made in china & cost RM35 only........selling like hot cakes....
shows 1080p full HD also..... sweat.gif Slowly it will take over & selling at each pasar malam around klang valley..... blush.gif

BD is "copy protected". How these guys able "crack it out"?
I support ori......... blush.gif aa
devil'z070
post Aug 3 2010, 11:52 PM

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QUOTE(August 3 @ 2010, 10:08 am)
where do you guys stay anyway?
klang valley, everywhere selling those..
SS2, summit usj, amcorp mall and few more place selling..

anyway i dont recommend buying those..
support ori pls  notworthy.gif
*
I think most of them are selling the double layer DVD's which is compressed version of BD... also i saw some shops selling Blu Ray disk for Rm25..but dunno its ori or not

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post Aug 3 2010, 11:59 PM

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QUOTE(devil'z070 @ Aug 3 2010, 11:52 PM)
I think most of them are selling the double layer DVD's which is compressed version of  BD... also i saw some shops selling Blu Ray disk for Rm25..but dunno its ori or not
*
Stop supporting pirated stuff guys, enough of DVD killed the industry. Blu-ray now! *Sigh* blush.gif doh.gif
maskedchan
post Aug 4 2010, 12:10 AM

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QUOTE(devil'z070 @ Aug 3 2010, 11:52 PM)
I think most of them are selling the double layer DVD's which is compressed version of  BD... also i saw some shops selling Blu Ray disk for Rm25..but dunno its ori or not
*
that place i mention selling pirated BD..not those double layer DVD..
check again then u know what i saying...
or u dunno how to differentiate both of them? whistling.gif
ah_chak
post Aug 4 2010, 12:34 AM

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if it's a 1 to 1 copy, then there will be no difference in terms of data and content.. if mkv is possible.. i don't see why 1 to 1 copy is impossible..

now the problem is.. it's either you want to buy ori or not.. at the end of the day, when u put the BD in your player.. it will be the exact same thing.. the only difference is your feeling..

buy ori - "nah.. see.. i buy ori.. support the movie industry.."
buy pirated - "nah.. see.. pay so much for what.. also the same.."

well.. it's just something to ponder with.. laugh.gif
devil'z070
post Aug 4 2010, 02:25 AM

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QUOTE(maskedchan @ Aug 4 2010, 12:10 AM)
that place i mention selling pirated BD..not those double layer DVD..
check again then u know what i saying...
or u dunno how to differentiate both of them? whistling.gif
*
sorry bro ..i thought u were talking abt the double layer dvd's, ...so how much is this pirated BD's ?
maskedchan
post Aug 4 2010, 03:19 AM

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QUOTE(devil'z070 @ Aug 4 2010, 02:25 AM)
sorry bro ..i thought u were talking abt the double layer dvd's, ...so how much is this pirated BD's ?
*
no idea..never ask or bother what the price..
just browse through see what titles they have..

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post Aug 4 2010, 08:04 AM

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QUOTE(maskedchan @ Aug 4 2010, 03:19 AM)
no idea..never ask or bother what the price..
just browse through see what titles they have..
*
I've seen a shop in Jaya33 in PJ selling from the range of RM30-45 blush.gif
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post Aug 4 2010, 08:24 AM

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QUOTE(sKyWiR3pT3lTd @ Aug 4 2010, 08:04 AM)
I've seen a shop in Jaya33 in PJ selling from the range of RM30-45 blush.gif
*
dont tell me..
tell to the person who want to know..

kianwee
post Aug 4 2010, 08:53 AM

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QUOTE(maskedchan @ Aug 4 2010, 08:24 AM)
dont tell me..
tell to the person who want to know..
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Like a plague, follows you everywhere whistling.gif
maskedchan
post Aug 4 2010, 09:54 AM

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QUOTE(kianwee @ Aug 4 2010, 08:53 AM)
Like a plague, follows you everywhere  whistling.gif
*
stalker...
what to do... my avatar so catchy laugh.gif
greyshadow
post Aug 4 2010, 10:08 AM

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hmm... since the BR disc already can be pirated, does it means PS3 games also can be pirated already? hmm.gif
sKyWiR3pT3lTd
post Aug 4 2010, 10:26 AM

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QUOTE(maskedchan @ Aug 4 2010, 09:54 AM)
stalker...
what to do... my avatar so catchy  laugh.gif
*
Stalking childrens ain't fun..whistling.gif
andy_lhc
post Aug 4 2010, 10:31 AM

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QUOTE(greyshadow @ Aug 4 2010, 10:08 AM)
hmm... since the BR disc already can be pirated, does it means PS3 games also can be pirated already? hmm.gif
*
i remember reading Ps3 games have higher security encoded into the disc and also the ps3 is made to read the code in the disc before you r allowed to play.......
geforce1999
post Aug 4 2010, 10:48 AM

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QUOTE(greyshadow @ Aug 4 2010, 10:08 AM)
hmm... since the BR disc already can be pirated, does it means PS3 games also can be pirated already? hmm.gif
*
It bugs me too, pirated BD can easily found but not pirated PS3 games, strange... hmm.gif
choontoy
post Aug 4 2010, 11:08 AM

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QUOTE(geforce1999 @ Aug 4 2010, 10:48 AM)
It bugs me too, pirated BD can easily found but not pirated PS3 games, strange...  hmm.gif
*
For ps3 pirated games comes out also no point.PSN will keep update version online,the pirated disc will be no longer detected. biggrin.gif Support ORI lol.
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post Aug 4 2010, 11:12 AM

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if can't afford ori games, then buy xbox / wii like every other cheapskate la.. thumbup.gif
geforce1999
post Aug 4 2010, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(choontoy @ Aug 4 2010, 11:08 AM)
For ps3 pirated games comes out also no point.PSN will keep update version online,the pirated disc will be no longer detected. biggrin.gif Support ORI lol.
*
That could be the reason. smile.gif


Added on August 4, 2010, 11:35 am
QUOTE(ronnt88 @ Aug 4 2010, 11:12 AM)
if can't afford ori games, then buy xbox / wii like every other cheapskate la.. thumbup.gif
*
I do have a couple of of PS3 games but some never been opened and most not play more than 2 hours blush.gif My PS3 is mainly for BD player biggrin.gif

Btw, I'm already one of those cheapskate that also have xbox360 & wii tongue.gif

This post has been edited by geforce1999: Aug 4 2010, 11:35 AM
ameenskywalker
post Aug 4 2010, 03:33 PM

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QUOTE(geforce1999 @ Aug 4 2010, 01:22 PM)
That could be the reason.  smile.gif


Added on August 4, 2010, 11:35 am

I do have a couple of of PS3 games but some never been opened and most not play more than 2 hours  blush.gif  My PS3 is mainly for BD player  biggrin.gif

Btw, I'm already one of those cheapskate that also have xbox360 & wii  tongue.gif
*
Same here, I only go for PS3 exclusives, for everything else there's 360.. *after twice RROD, there's no way i'm supporting them...
geforce1999
post Aug 4 2010, 04:11 PM

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QUOTE(ameenskywalker @ Aug 4 2010, 03:33 PM)
Same here, I only go for PS3 exclusives, for everything else there's 360.. *after twice RROD, there's no way i'm supporting them...
*
I was getting Xbox360 for games but too bad, no time for that so it is sitting on the table collecting dust... It was down once and I had to replace the faulty HDD... wink.gif

I have 2 Wii, one for my son and one for daughter so that they can play their own games in their rooms without fighting with each others. I never finished any game be it PC/console by myself at my early age; but I finished whole bunch of games with my son, mosly kids games, on old Xbox and Wii tongue.gif

Sorry, I know I'm OT... now back to topic
toratorabluray
post Aug 4 2010, 04:32 PM

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Original BD - the disc surface where the laser reads are clear

Pirated BD - the disc surface where the laser reads are dark/black colour


For original BD, you can see near the center hole the wording BVSS for BD25 disc and BVDL for BD50 disc

At certain angle, you can also see wavy surface for a BD50 just like DVD-9


Original BD in malaysia can be divided to mainly 3 version

US version

UK version

Local version (Speedy version)

geforce1999
post Aug 4 2010, 04:50 PM

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QUOTE(toratorabluray @ Aug 4 2010, 04:32 PM)
Original BD - the disc surface where the laser reads are clear

Pirated BD - the disc surface where the laser reads are dark/black colour
For original BD, you can see near the center hole the wording BVSS for BD25 disc and BVDL for BD50 disc

At certain angle, you can also see wavy surface for a BD50 just like DVD-9
Original BD in malaysia can be divided to mainly 3 version

US version

UK version

Local version (Speedy version)
*
Good info. Straight to the point. thumbup.gif
kobe8byrant
post Aug 4 2010, 06:14 PM

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One question regarding these imitation BDs, do they have extras? If they don't, then it's easier to identify them, innit.

Haven't bought one myself, wouldn't know.
geforce1999
post Aug 4 2010, 08:00 PM

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QUOTE(kobe8byrant @ Aug 4 2010, 06:14 PM)
One question regarding these imitation BDs, do they have extras? If they don't, then it's easier to identify them, innit.

Haven't bought one myself, wouldn't know.
*
Depend, if one to one copy then the content is identical with original including extra. Just that the media is BD-R (25G or 50G) only. So far I only know some sellers in China do that. For those selling in open market of Malaysia most like been compressed if the original is 50G as they are using 25G BD-R.
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post Aug 5 2010, 09:38 AM

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QUOTE(ronnt88 @ Aug 4 2010, 11:12 AM)
if can't afford ori games, then buy xbox / wii like every other cheapskate la.. thumbup.gif
*
Maybe you want to be more specific. I had xbox 360 and only bought original thumbup.gif
maskedchan
post Aug 5 2010, 10:58 AM

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QUOTE(refnulf @ Aug 5 2010, 09:38 AM)
Maybe you want to be more specific. I had xbox 360 and only bought original  thumbup.gif
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u minority..
see majority...all play xbox will just go pirated..
so cheapskate word is well used here whistling.gif
choontoy
post Aug 5 2010, 03:31 PM

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QUOTE(maskedchan @ Aug 5 2010, 10:58 AM)
u minority..
see majority...all play xbox will just go pirated..
so cheapskate word is well used here whistling.gif
*
cant blame him get ori games on xbox360 as he wanna play online ?
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post Aug 5 2010, 05:38 PM

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QUOTE(maskedchan @ Aug 5 2010, 10:58 AM)
u minority..
see majority...all play xbox will just go pirated..
so cheapskate word is well used here whistling.gif
*
The majority of people I know buy original. So I would be wary of using such words. Majority of the xbox player base in lyn forums also buy original.


Ngto
post Aug 5 2010, 10:09 PM

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How sure are you? Could be the majority that use pirated purposely keep silent to remain low profile tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Ngto: Aug 5 2010, 10:09 PM
refnulf
post Aug 5 2010, 11:10 PM

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QUOTE(Ngto @ Aug 5 2010, 10:09 PM)
How sure are you? Could be the majority that use pirated purposely keep silent to remain low profile  tongue.gif
*
Yeah, I'm sure that's it... they're all low profile.

doh.gif





This post has been edited by refnulf: Aug 5 2010, 11:23 PM
Sauron76
post Aug 6 2010, 11:28 AM

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QUOTE(idoblu @ Aug 3 2010, 11:45 AM)
if the data side on the disc is like black in colour - its pirated
if its 25gb only, then most likely pirated also
pirated Blu-rays are using BD-Rs

these are really blu-rays but pirated
Because of size, it's most likely pirate? doh.gif

FYI,
BD25 - 25GB
BD50 - 50GB (Dual Layer)

Note that not all movies is released in BD50. Most older movies was released in BD25. Same with PS3 Games, only few of em were released in BD50.



chrisoth80
post Aug 7 2010, 08:30 AM

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QUOTE(ronnt88 @ Aug 4 2010, 11:12 AM)
if can't afford ori games, then buy xbox / wii like every other cheapskate la.. thumbup.gif
*
I've 2 units of xbox360 and never ever buy any of those "pirated" games. All my collection are only "Original". So please be careful when using the "cheapskate" and be more specific.

FYI I bought my original games 2 copies for 1 title because I will keep 1 for display and I for playing purposes.

refnulf
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QUOTE(chrisoth80 @ Aug 7 2010, 08:30 AM)
I've 2 units of xbox360 and never ever buy any of those "pirated" games. All my collection are only "Original". So please be careful when using the "cheapskate" and be more specific.

FYI I bought my original games 2 copies for 1 title because I will keep 1 for display and I for playing purposes.
*
Wow, that's insane man.

brows.gif
geforce1999
post Aug 7 2010, 10:34 AM

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QUOTE(chrisoth80 @ Aug 7 2010, 08:30 AM)
I've 2 units of xbox360 and never ever buy any of those "pirated" games. All my collection are only "Original". So please be careful when using the "cheapskate" and be more specific.

FYI I bought my original games 2 copies for 1 title because I will keep 1 for display and I for playing purposes.
*
That's what I call collector! user posted image
chrisoth80
post Aug 7 2010, 08:35 PM

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QUOTE(refnulf @ Aug 7 2010, 09:20 AM)
Wow, that's insane man.

brows.gif
*
Actually this does not apply to xbox360 games only but also for my PS3, PSP, NDS, PC & Blu-Ray collection as well. That's why I hate when ppl just simply make justification base on "Majority".


refnulf
post Aug 7 2010, 08:42 PM

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QUOTE(chrisoth80 @ Aug 7 2010, 08:35 PM)
Actually this does not apply to xbox360 games only but also for my PS3, PSP, NDS, PC & Blu-Ray collection as well. That's why I hate when ppl just simply make justification base on "Majority".
*
I agree. Just because they know a bunch of people who don't buy original they think everyone else does the same.


echoesian
post Aug 8 2010, 12:04 AM

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Bluray CD in Shenzhen is very cheap..

Btw, how is the shipping rate work on Amazon?
piscesguy
post Aug 8 2010, 07:59 AM

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QUOTE(echoesian @ Aug 8 2010, 12:04 AM)
Btw, how is the shipping rate work on Amazon?
*
Go to BD Topic and find out.. biggrin.gif
kianwee
post Aug 8 2010, 09:41 AM

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QUOTE(chrisoth80 @ Aug 7 2010, 08:35 PM)
Actually this does not apply to xbox360 games only but also for my PS3, PSP, NDS, PC & Blu-Ray collection as well. That's why I hate when ppl just simply make justification base on "Majority".
*
Well said. rclxms.gif
choontoy
post Aug 9 2010, 05:01 PM

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Got another seller post up pirated BD for sale doh.gif Sumore stated as ORI shakehead.gif

This post has been edited by choontoy: Aug 9 2010, 05:03 PM
ameenskywalker
post Aug 9 2010, 05:13 PM

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QUOTE(choontoy @ Aug 9 2010, 07:01 PM)
Got another seller post up pirated BD for sale doh.gif Sumore stated as ORI shakehead.gif
*
How to tell which seller is selling pirated ? should this be report to Trade Zone Helpdesk ?
sKyWiR3pT3lTd
post Aug 9 2010, 05:16 PM

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QUOTE(choontoy @ Aug 9 2010, 05:01 PM)
Got another seller post up pirated BD for sale doh.gif Sumore stated as ORI shakehead.gif
*
Serious? I know there was one but he was actually removed within hours in LYN.
I suggest you report bro, if you found one.
azbro
post Aug 9 2010, 05:26 PM

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Hmm...next time post the link here...I wanna see whats the commotion about.
trapezohedron13
post Aug 9 2010, 06:07 PM

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Here's the link

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1519592
azbro
post Aug 9 2010, 06:16 PM

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QUOTE(trapezohedron13 @ Aug 9 2010, 06:07 PM)
hmm.....now I'm confused if its original or not! blush.gif

But the word original 'Copy' is giving it away laugh.gif

This post has been edited by azbro: Aug 9 2010, 06:18 PM
trapezohedron13
post Aug 9 2010, 06:19 PM

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Yeah, but c the disc also know it's not original. Izit consider pirated?
Learjet35
post Aug 9 2010, 06:21 PM

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it just the movie,no any other extra things.
azbro
post Aug 9 2010, 06:25 PM

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hmm..It could be original stuff only for China market..but then, why is cover in English.
trapezohedron13
post Aug 9 2010, 06:26 PM

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Because it's 'original' without the extras. Dunno it will spoil the bd lens anot
sKyWiR3pT3lTd
post Aug 9 2010, 06:33 PM

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QUOTE(trapezohedron13 @ Aug 9 2010, 06:26 PM)
Because it's 'original' without the extras. Dunno it will spoil the bd lens anot
*
Just look at the disc layer. Its BDRW. Its definitely pirated Blu-ray. I have one which i bought long ago.

He's right, you cant play it on DVD player. But you can see clearly the burn mark on the disc layer. What a bizarre!

How could MOD's not see this!?? blush.gif
trapezohedron13
post Aug 9 2010, 06:39 PM

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Wah lau. Not the lens spoil but the lens go burn the disc! How bout if putting into BD player? Anyway it doesn't matter. Don't wanna risk it. Support original and lyn forumer sellers!!
choontoy
post Aug 9 2010, 07:10 PM

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QUOTE(trapezohedron13 @ Aug 9 2010, 06:07 PM)
U R Smart Fellow thumbup.gif
sKyWiR3pT3lTd
post Aug 9 2010, 08:13 PM

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QUOTE(choontoy @ Aug 9 2010, 07:10 PM)
U R Smart Fellow thumbup.gif
*
The thread has been reported anyway..

user posted image
choontoy
post Aug 9 2010, 10:36 PM

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QUOTE(sKyWiR3pT3lTd @ Aug 9 2010, 08:13 PM)
The thread has been reported anyway..

user posted image
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icon_rolleyes.gif
chewkl
post Aug 9 2010, 11:19 PM

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If U go to Artist Gallery, there are a lot of China BD25 for sale. They have slipcovers and the print is in Chinese. If the original movie is BD50, these will be in BD25 and it is clearly stated on the packaging itself. Each goes for about RM50.

Now, I would be very interested to know if these are original or not.
choontoy
post Aug 9 2010, 11:51 PM

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QUOTE(chewkl @ Aug 9 2010, 11:19 PM)
If U go to Artist Gallery, there are a lot of China BD25 for sale. They have slipcovers and the print is in Chinese. If the original movie is BD50, these will be in BD25 and it is clearly stated on the packaging itself. Each goes for about RM50.

Now, I would be very interested to know if these are original or not.
*
China bd25 compress liao.
trapezohedron13
post Aug 10 2010, 07:40 AM

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QUOTE(chewkl @ Aug 9 2010, 11:19 PM)
Each goes for about RM50.

*
Add another RM10-30 and you assure yourself an original one. And save the bd lens. Original some even have DVD and digital copy and other extras. So, yeah.
sKyWiR3pT3lTd
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QUOTE(trapezohedron13 @ Aug 10 2010, 07:40 AM)
Add another RM10-30 and you assure yourself an original one. And save the bd lens. Original some even have DVD and digital copy and other extras. So, yeah.
*
Spot on, and not only about lens, also you dont get the similar feel watching the pirated ones compared to genuine disc.
Be original , buy original, worth the wait, worth the money spent..
man_evolution
post Aug 10 2010, 10:26 AM

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QUOTE(chewkl @ Aug 9 2010, 11:19 PM)
If U go to Artist Gallery, there are a lot of China BD25 for sale. They have slipcovers and the print is in Chinese. If the original movie is BD50, these will be in BD25 and it is clearly stated on the packaging itself. Each goes for about RM50.

Now, I would be very interested to know if these are original or not.
*
It's too expensive for pirated BD RM50..I can get only RM25 oni..Better buy original one lol rclxms.gif
piscesguy
post Aug 10 2010, 10:36 AM

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If u have a great hardware, buying pirated software/movie that cannot guarantee the best quality will 'downgrade' the overall AV performance..
choontoy
post Aug 10 2010, 11:49 AM

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QUOTE(piscesguy @ Aug 10 2010, 10:36 AM)
If u have a great hardware, buying pirated software/movie that cannot guarantee the best quality will 'downgrade' the overall AV performance..
*
AGREED icon_rolleyes.gif
sKyWiR3pT3lTd
post Aug 10 2010, 11:50 AM

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QUOTE(piscesguy @ Aug 10 2010, 10:36 AM)
If u have a great hardware, buying pirated software/movie that cannot guarantee the best quality will 'downgrade' the overall AV performance..
*
Well said ...
Ngto
post Aug 10 2010, 12:27 PM

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But will upgrade the Pocket biggrin.gif
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post Aug 10 2010, 01:20 PM

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Old news but something to think bout

Pirated Blu-ray Market
specuvestor
post Aug 10 2010, 01:52 PM

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QUOTE(sKyWiR3pT3lTd @ Aug 10 2010, 01:20 PM)
Old news but something to think bout

Pirated Blu-ray Market
*
Giant Hypermart selling Blu Ray US$15 from Panorama(?) distributor from HK. Anyone know if this is real? Saw Rambo and Ip Man.
geforce1999
post Aug 10 2010, 03:34 PM

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QUOTE(sKyWiR3pT3lTd @ Aug 10 2010, 01:20 PM)
Old news but something to think bout

Pirated Blu-ray Market
*
That was very old news. This is what they doing for the time being. http://www.bluehdtv.cn/

This post has been edited by geforce1999: Aug 10 2010, 03:38 PM
rx330
post Aug 10 2010, 03:37 PM

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wow, suddenly everybody is so holy

i wonder one day pirated BD 50, direct copy of ori source, selling for rm 5 per pc, what then?
trapezohedron13
post Aug 10 2010, 09:41 PM

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QUOTE(rx330 @ Aug 10 2010, 03:37 PM)
wow, suddenly everybody is so holy

i wonder one day pirated BD 50, direct copy of ori source, selling for rm 5 per pc, what then?
*
Must.... resist..... ohmy.gif
sKyWiR3pT3lTd
post Aug 10 2010, 11:12 PM

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QUOTE(rx330 @ Aug 10 2010, 03:37 PM)
wow, suddenly everybody is so holy

i wonder one day pirated BD 50, direct copy of ori source, selling for rm 5 per pc, what then?
*
Look at the response below :-

"piscesguy,Aug 10 2010, 10:36 AM"

"If u have a great hardware, buying pirated software/movie that cannot guarantee the best quality will 'downgrade' the overall AV performance.."

Ngto
post Aug 10 2010, 11:51 PM

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QUOTE(sKyWiR3pT3lTd @ Aug 10 2010, 11:12 PM)
Look at the response below :-

"piscesguy,Aug 10 2010, 10:36 AM"

"If u have a great hardware, buying pirated software/movie that cannot guarantee the best quality will 'downgrade' the overall AV performance.."
*
I take it you don't know what is "BD 50 Direct copy of original source" quoted by rx330 smile.gif

This post has been edited by Ngto: Aug 11 2010, 12:04 AM
sKyWiR3pT3lTd
post Aug 11 2010, 12:34 AM

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QUOTE(Ngto @ Aug 10 2010, 11:51 PM)
I take it you don't know what is "BD 50 Direct copy of original source"  quoted by rx330 smile.gif
*
Its called pirated , thats what it is..! Please elaborate what you understand by "BD50 direct copy of original source" ?


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post Aug 11 2010, 01:21 AM

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QUOTE(daryl.k @ Aug 2 2010, 03:35 PM)

cant say la....its still a suspicion for the time being...innocent till proven guilty  wink.gif
it's not accusing bro but just a reminder for others to be more carefully..it's no use if we already bought a Pirate BD as high as ORI price
maskedchan
post Aug 11 2010, 03:27 AM

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QUOTE(sKyWiR3pT3lTd @ Aug 11 2010, 12:34 AM)
Its called pirated , thats what it is..! Please elaborate what you understand by "BD50 direct copy of original source" ?
*
i had the disc and i turn it into BD iso whistling.gif


Added on August 11, 2010, 3:29 am
QUOTE(Ngto @ Aug 10 2010, 11:51 PM)
I take it you don't know what is "BD 50 Direct copy of original source"  quoted by rx330 smile.gif
*
dont bother him bro...
maybe he dunno what the quality of BD50..
anyway i still support ori laugh.gif

This post has been edited by maskedchan: Aug 11 2010, 03:29 AM
bad2928
post Aug 11 2010, 05:34 AM

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QUOTE(maskedchan @ Aug 11 2010, 03:27 AM)
i had the disc and i turn it into BD iso whistling.gif


Added on August 11, 2010, 3:29 am

dont bother him bro...
maybe he dunno what the quality of BD50..
anyway i still support ori laugh.gif
*
is there or anybody sell bd iso?... hmm.gif
choontoy
post Aug 11 2010, 09:46 AM

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QUOTE(rx330 @ Aug 10 2010, 03:37 PM)
wow, suddenly everybody is so holy

i wonder one day pirated BD 50, direct copy of ori source, selling for rm 5 per pc, what then?
*
True with yr statement.Pls look back on previous olden day @ dvd,when 1st times dvd9 pirated copy cames out which cost @ rm25 but now dvd9 able 2 get @ rm10.I had compare both quality and my previous dvd9(rm25),PQ/AQ much better and lasting.These dvd9(rm25),subtitle followed with region 1 without chinese subtitle but nowadays u can get dvd9(rm10) include chinese subtitle.
rx330
post Aug 11 2010, 10:15 AM

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QUOTE(sKyWiR3pT3lTd @ Aug 10 2010, 11:12 PM)
Look at the response below :-

"piscesguy,Aug 10 2010, 10:36 AM"

"If u have a great hardware, buying pirated software/movie that cannot guarantee the best quality will 'downgrade' the overall AV performance.."
*
with that signature u have below there i would presume you would know better
chewkl
post Aug 11 2010, 10:32 AM

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QUOTE(rx330 @ Aug 11 2010, 10:15 AM)
with that signature u have below there i would presume you would know better
*
Wow YB scored a head shot! rclxms.gif
vincentboleh
post Aug 11 2010, 11:13 AM

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QUOTE(piscesguy @ Aug 10 2010, 10:36 AM)
If u have a great hardware, buying pirated software/movie that cannot guarantee the best quality will 'downgrade' the overall AV performance..
*
Try compare original Avatar from Speedy with Mr Ho's DVD9; which quality better???
Try compare original Avatar Bluray with Mr Ho's Bluray Rip (BDMV 43GB); which quality better???

Old wine tastes good but the Best wine is still the wine that you like best.

Ngto
post Aug 11 2010, 11:25 AM

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QUOTE(sKyWiR3pT3lTd @ Aug 11 2010, 12:34 AM)
Its called pirated , thats what it is..! Please elaborate what you understand by "BD50 direct copy of original source" ?
*
It means 100% BD rip. From Original 50GB to BD-R 50GB or BD.ISO file, everything intact. If you still don't understand it simply means 100% the same quality.

So how can it 'downgrade' the overall AV performance.." doh.gif tongue.gif (Btw my initial comment was about your statement about the downgrade of AV performance of BD50 direct copy, not about whether it's pirated or not)


Added on August 11, 2010, 11:29 am
QUOTE(bad2928 @ Aug 11 2010, 05:34 AM)
is there or anybody sell bd iso?... hmm.gif
*
Got a lot people selling 100% BD.ISO file, just must know where to look. Some of them selling price even cheaper than fake blu-ray DVD9.

This post has been edited by Ngto: Aug 11 2010, 12:42 PM
rx330
post Aug 11 2010, 11:32 AM

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ngto, not necessary BD-r, maybe BD to BD in near future

its like someone telling me actual BD wen compare to BD iso the outcome effect lain, hahahhaha
Ngto
post Aug 11 2010, 11:38 AM

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QUOTE(rx330 @ Aug 11 2010, 11:32 AM)
ngto, not necessary BD-r, maybe BD to BD in near future

its like someone telling me actual BD wen compare to BD iso the outcome effect lain, hahahhaha
*
Just explaining to him with example smile.gif
rx330
post Aug 11 2010, 11:48 AM

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ngto, i hope wont waste a few seconds in ur life

hopefully he understands
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post Aug 11 2010, 11:54 AM

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Enough about pirate copies. Point is, I ain't gonna get involved in such purchases and many here are not either.


Ngto
post Aug 11 2010, 12:09 PM

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QUOTE(refnulf @ Aug 11 2010, 11:54 AM)
Enough about pirate copies. Point is, I ain't gonna get involved in such purchases and many here are not either.
*
But the topic title itself is about difference between pirated or original. So how can not talk about Pirate copies biggrin.gif . Anyway good for you that you don't purchase Pirated, because no one here is asking you to do that smile.gif

This post has been edited by Ngto: Aug 11 2010, 12:13 PM
rx330
post Aug 11 2010, 12:38 PM

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refnulf, good for u

wonder what abt those who purchase, n rip, hmmm
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post Aug 11 2010, 12:46 PM

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I would definitely be kinder to the wallet if I did though tongue.gif

But, I've got obsession with original blu-rays right now.

It's not considered copyright infringement if you rip from an original copy you own, as long as you don't go providing it for download on warez sites, etc.
Same goes for audio cds, etc. I guess that's why they started with the digital copy.



This post has been edited by refnulf: Aug 11 2010, 12:47 PM
rx330
post Aug 11 2010, 12:53 PM

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so me buying the ori, the rip it out, sell the ori, its fine then


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post Aug 11 2010, 12:57 PM

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You need to own the ori in order to justify the ripped copy. That's if you get caught I believe.

If not, do whatever you usually do. Download em, rip em, sell whatever.

This post has been edited by refnulf: Aug 11 2010, 01:26 PM
sKyWiR3pT3lTd
post Aug 11 2010, 01:34 PM

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QUOTE(maskedchan @ Aug 11 2010, 03:27 AM)
i had the disc and i turn it into BD iso whistling.gif


Added on August 11, 2010, 3:29 am

dont bother him bro...
maybe he dunno what the quality of BD50..
anyway i still support ori laugh.gif
*
Genius

QUOTE(Ngto @ Aug 11 2010, 11:25 AM)
It means 100% BD rip.  From Original 50GB to BD-R 50GB or BD.ISO file, everything intact. If you still don't understand it simply means 100% the same quality.

So how can it  'downgrade' the overall AV performance.."  doh.gif  tongue.gif (Btw my initial comment was about your statement about the downgrade of AV performance of BD50 direct copy, not about whether it's pirated or not)


Added on August 11, 2010, 11:29 am
Got a lot people selling 100% BD.ISO file, just must know where to look. Some of them selling price even cheaper than fake blu-ray DVD9.
*
Ingenious

QUOTE(rx330 @ Aug 11 2010, 10:15 AM)
with that signature u have below there i would presume you would know better
*
You're genius too..

This post has been edited by sKyWiR3pT3lTd: Aug 11 2010, 01:40 PM
rx330
post Aug 11 2010, 02:18 PM

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thanks for the compliments, we learn from the best
* edited for being stupidly incorrect

This post has been edited by rx330: Aug 11 2010, 02:23 PM
Ngto
post Aug 11 2010, 02:20 PM

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QUOTE(rx330 @ Aug 11 2010, 02:18 PM)
thanks for the compliments, too bad u aint one urself
but dont worry, keep it up, its never too old to learn
*
How can you say that ! He's the Greatest Genius amongst us biggrin.gif
rx330
post Aug 11 2010, 02:22 PM

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is it? sorry, my bad then

din know abt that, will edit my post later
TSdaryl.k
post Aug 11 2010, 02:57 PM

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honestly didn't expect this topic to attract so much attention and opinions...good thing...

well...i re-borrowed the pirated Hurt Locker BD from my friend..and this time compared it with those i suspected were pirated...in fact, i believe they are originals..

the pirated one has really dark surface, almost black in color...but other features is exact same as the original, even the printing was flawless...

i guess that's the only way to distinguish if the BD is a pirated or not..black surface compared to bright, silverly surface on the originals.

so it seems at times, u can get really good deals on original BDs...what's the point of getting the pirated ones then...as low as RM50 for an original copy...mere RM15 more and u get that personal satisfaction its original copies and in a way, supporting actor & actress towards their rich & famous lifestyle...

at least the next time u see a hollywood actor driving a brand new million dollar ferrari around, at least u can say, "I helped paid for that" smile.gif
refnulf
post Aug 11 2010, 03:09 PM

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QUOTE(daryl.k @ Aug 11 2010, 02:57 PM)
honestly didn't expect this topic to attract so much attention and opinions...good thing...

well...i re-borrowed the pirated Hurt Locker BD from my friend..and this time compared it with those i suspected were pirated...in fact, i believe they are originals..

the pirated one has really dark surface, almost black in color...but other features is exact same as the original, even the printing was flawless...

i guess that's the only way to distinguish if the BD is a pirated or not..black surface compared to bright, silverly surface on the originals.

so it seems at times, u can get really good deals on original BDs...what's the point of getting the pirated ones then...as low as RM50 for an original copy...mere RM15 more and u get that personal satisfaction its original copies and in a way, supporting actor & actress towards their rich & famous lifestyle...

at least the next time u see a hollywood actor driving a brand new million dollar ferrari around, at least u can say, "I helped paid for that" smile.gif
*
Good way of looking at it man sweat.gif
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post Aug 11 2010, 06:22 PM

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QUOTE(vincentboleh @ Aug 11 2010, 11:13 AM)
Try compare original Avatar from Speedy with Mr Ho's DVD9; which quality better???
Try compare original Avatar Bluray with Mr Ho's Bluray Rip (BDMV 43GB); which quality better???

Old wine tastes good but the Best wine is still the wine that you like best.
*
sometimes, but not all the time,
Mr. Ho's bluray is better than original bd from speedy or from other sources.

because some titles are released with different audio track according to region. some original title might not have dts-hdma track but uncle ho got his copy from other region and his pirate ones gets dts-hdma.

so in that sense, i bet the uncle ho will sound better.
so if you want the best possible experience, would you choose a speedy bd with it's dolby digital track or uncle ho with its dts-hdma track? biggrin.gif
blitzboy
post Aug 11 2010, 06:56 PM

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Many of us felt that the existence pirated movies or songs be it CDs, VCDs, DVDs and Blu-Rays, has an impact to the entertainment industry.
The impacts negatively on the income of artist, movie directors, producers up to those BIG BOYS who invested their money in the entire production.

But I would say, looking at the other side of the same coin, the impact is very minimal, one obvious reason is that these "players" in the entertainment industry still make the $$$$$ and living a rich and famous lifestyles from luxury cars, big house, and some can even buy a private jets.

You are making the rich become richer, and you yourself become poorer.

If you read Robert Kiyosaki's book, the rich people will always has the law on their side, no matter what, they are all out to make money from all of us(me included).
Docan
post Aug 11 2010, 07:36 PM

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Talking about Speedy.. Some discs in Speedy is marked "distributed by Speedy". Does it mean it is imported by Speedy or manufacture by Speedy??
low98944
post Aug 11 2010, 07:46 PM

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QUOTE(blitzboy @ Aug 11 2010, 06:56 PM)
Many of us felt that the existence pirated movies or songs be it CDs, VCDs, DVDs and Blu-Rays, has an impact to the entertainment industry.
The impacts negatively on the income of artist, movie directors, producers up to those BIG BOYS who invested their money in the entire production.

But I would say, looking at the other side of the same coin, the impact is very minimal, one obvious reason is that these "players" in the entertainment industry still make the $$$$$ and living a rich and famous lifestyles from luxury cars, big house, and some can even buy a private jets.

You are making the rich become richer, and you yourself become poorer.

If you read Robert Kiyosaki's book, the rich people will always has the law on their side, no matter what, they are all out to make money from all of us(me included).
*
If you want to find excuses, there is always lot of excuses. yawn.gif

You live at planet earth not mars, so follow the laws. Bad laws still better than no laws at all.

This post has been edited by low98944: Aug 11 2010, 07:48 PM
choontoy
post Aug 11 2010, 08:58 PM

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For those who wanna compare which one Ori and Pirated,here are my attachment.Both are 8g capacity dvd.

This post has been edited by choontoy: Aug 11 2010, 09:02 PM


Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image
blitzboy
post Aug 11 2010, 09:17 PM

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QUOTE(low98944 @ Aug 11 2010, 07:46 PM)
If you want to find excuses, there is always lot of excuses.  yawn.gif

You live at planet earth not mars, so follow the laws.  Bad laws still better than no laws at all.
*
Yes, you can be right to a certain extent, and we are living in Malaysia.
Most Malaysian consumers are the poor and middle income group and are very prudent in their spending, that's why you will find a mixture of pirated and original DVDs movies or game or titles PS2 or X-box in ALMOST every household in Malaysia. I am one of them, I buy original because as a consumer I want to support that actor/actress or singer to produce more movies or songs, and I also buy some pirated stuffs because I just want to listen or watch the content. Some of them, in which I find it good, I will go buy the original for collection.

RM100 for original blu-ray compared to RM25 for blu-ray copies of the same movie, which one would u buy? Not everyone of us here are as fortunate to always buy originals be it DVD or some other products.

I am sure you will agree with me, on such point that, do you want the fuel price to go up further say RM2.20 per liter or RM2.90 per liter? That's a BIG NO!! Right?

I can speculate those BIG BOYS up there has big influences to such extent whereby those producing originals and those making the imitation could possibly be the same group of people or they already knew each other, or even playing golf together, from the $$$$ they make from our spending.

The way I see it, there is a place for everyone, and therefore it should be a balance between them. Got good then sure got bad one, there is only a fine line seperates the good and bad. Got demand, then for sure got supply.

The rich will MOST of the time have the law siding them, or even the government siding them, to make $$$$$$ from the poor. They will hire the best lawyers to find a loophole in the legal system to make money, be it tax evasion or introducing a new product and using the law ensuring no one competes with them or stand in their way to take $$$$ from the poor. It's a conspiracy.


Added on August 11, 2010, 9:21 pm
QUOTE(choontoy @ Aug 11 2010, 08:58 PM)
For those who wanna compare which one Ori and Pirated,here are my attachment.Both are 8g capacity dvd.
*
I think I cannot tell much because of the lighting in the first 2 pictures, in the 3rd picture, I think the bottom one is REAL!!!

This post has been edited by blitzboy: Aug 11 2010, 09:21 PM
azbro
post Aug 11 2010, 10:03 PM

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QUOTE(blitzboy @ Aug 11 2010, 09:17 PM)
I think I cannot tell much because of the lighting in the first 2 pictures, in the 3rd picture, I think the bottom one is REAL!!!
*
I no need to think...both are pirated stuff...haha

Nolah just kidding..the widescreen one is real...special edition actually has 2 disc plus a whole lots of stuff inside
vincentboleh
post Aug 11 2010, 10:29 PM

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QUOTE(blitzboy @ Aug 11 2010, 09:17 PM)

RM100 for original blu-ray compared to RM25 for blu-ray copies of the same movie, which one would u buy? Not everyone of us here are as fortunate to always buy originals be it DVD or some other products.
Each RM spend help many less educated youths to be employed i.e. by increasing employment rate, petty crime rate decreases in tandem.

I will buy both; originals for concerts / local artists but copies to protest overpricing and excessive profiteering. Go check Amazon for answers.

choontoy
post Aug 11 2010, 10:38 PM

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QUOTE(blitzboy @ Aug 11 2010, 09:17 PM)
Yes, you can be right to a certain extent, and we are living in Malaysia.
Most Malaysian consumers are the poor and middle income group and are very prudent in their spending, that's why you will find a mixture of pirated and original DVDs movies or game or titles PS2 or X-box in ALMOST every household in Malaysia. I am one of them, I buy original because as a consumer I want to support that actor/actress or singer to produce more movies or songs, and I also buy some pirated stuffs because I just want to listen or watch the content. Some of them, in which I find it good, I will go buy the original for collection.

RM100 for original blu-ray compared to RM25 for blu-ray copies of the same movie, which one would u buy? Not everyone of us here are as fortunate to always buy originals be it DVD or some other products.

I am sure you will agree with me, on such point that, do you want the fuel price to go up further say RM2.20 per liter or RM2.90 per liter? That's a BIG NO!! Right?

I can speculate those BIG BOYS up there has big influences to such extent whereby those producing originals and those making the imitation could possibly be the same group of people or they already knew each other, or even playing golf together, from the $$$$ they make from our spending.

The way I see it, there is a place for everyone, and therefore it should be a balance between them. Got good then sure got bad one, there is only a fine line seperates the good and bad. Got demand, then for sure got supply.

The rich will MOST of the time have the law siding them, or even the government siding them, to make $$$$$$ from the poor. They will hire the best lawyers to find a loophole in the legal system to make money, be it tax evasion or introducing a new product and using the law ensuring no one competes with them or stand in their way to take $$$$ from the poor. It's a conspiracy.


Added on August 11, 2010, 9:21 pm
I think I cannot tell much because of the lighting in the first 2 pictures, in the 3rd picture, I think the bottom one is REAL!!!
*
Yep,last attachment bottom are Ori


Added on August 11, 2010, 10:41 pm
QUOTE(azbro @ Aug 11 2010, 10:03 PM)
I no need to think...both are pirated stuff...haha

Nolah just kidding..the widescreen one is real...special edition actually has 2 disc plus a whole lots of stuff inside
*
Yep,widescreen are Ori,I compare both all features are same even subtitle are non chinese.

This post has been edited by choontoy: Aug 11 2010, 10:41 PM
refnulf
post Aug 11 2010, 10:56 PM

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Pretty simple. You buy original material, you're contributing to the salary of the actors and actresses, the people working in the film industry, the peons making the disc, and the distribution as well as everything else that comes in the package.

You buy pirated, you're contributing to organised crime. Helping the pirates contribute to their syndicates and for more crime to happen. It's all a cycle;drugs, prostitute, gambling, etc. Piracy is just another money maker for them. It's better to just dload from the net to be honest.

All in all, if you feel it's too expensive. Wait for good deals. Amazon has a ton of great deals everyday. If that's too much, then you probably shouldn't be watching movies. You should be working harder to enjoy a better lifestyle. That's what most of us have to do.

It's like when you watch a movie in the cinema, you're paying for the movie. That's how the studios recoup all the money spent making the film as well as all the salaries paid to all the actors, as well as making a profit. True, they probably make alot of money per movie and that's the money used to make better movies later on. Perhaps the stars and the studios do not deserve so much of money, that's not our call. You may try to justify your actions when you buy a pirated disc and come up with a bunch of believable reasons, but it still doesn't make it right.



This post has been edited by refnulf: Aug 11 2010, 10:58 PM
chewkl
post Aug 11 2010, 11:55 PM

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QUOTE(refnulf @ Aug 11 2010, 10:56 PM)
Pretty simple. You buy original material, you're contributing to the salary of the actors and actresses, the people working in the film industry, the peons making the disc, and the distribution as well as everything else that comes in the package.

You buy pirated, you're contributing to organised crime. Helping the pirates contribute to their syndicates and for more crime to happen. It's all a cycle;drugs, prostitute, gambling, etc. Piracy is just another money maker for them. It's better to just dload from the net to be honest.

All in all, if you feel it's too expensive. Wait for good deals. Amazon has a ton of great deals everyday. If that's too much, then you probably shouldn't be watching movies. You should be working harder to enjoy a better lifestyle. That's what most of us have to do.

It's like when you watch a movie in the cinema, you're paying for the movie. That's how the studios recoup all the money spent making the film as well as all the salaries paid to all the actors, as well as making a profit. True, they probably make alot of money per movie and that's the money used to make better movies later on. Perhaps the stars and the studios do not deserve so much of money, that's not our call. You may try to justify your actions when you buy a pirated disc and come up with a bunch of believable reasons, but it still doesn't make it right.
*
This is the best reply so far, IMHO. nod.gif
sKyWiR3pT3lTd
post Aug 12 2010, 01:28 AM

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QUOTE(refnulf @ Aug 11 2010, 10:56 PM)
Pretty simple. You buy original material, you're contributing to the salary of the actors and actresses, the people working in the film industry, the peons making the disc, and the distribution as well as everything else that comes in the package.

You buy pirated, you're contributing to organised crime. Helping the pirates contribute to their syndicates and for more crime to happen. It's all a cycle;drugs, prostitute, gambling, etc. Piracy is just another money maker for them. It's better to just dload from the net to be honest.

All in all, if you feel it's too expensive. Wait for good deals. Amazon has a ton of great deals everyday. If that's too much, then you probably shouldn't be watching movies. You should be working harder to enjoy a better lifestyle. That's what most of us have to do.

It's like when you watch a movie in the cinema, you're paying for the movie. That's how the studios recoup all the money spent making the film as well as all the salaries paid to all the actors, as well as making a profit. True, they probably make alot of money per movie and that's the money used to make better movies later on. Perhaps the stars and the studios do not deserve so much of money, that's not our call. You may try to justify your actions when you buy a pirated disc and come up with a bunch of believable reasons, but it still doesn't make it right.
*
Excellent..agree with you One Hundred percent!
maskedchan
post Aug 12 2010, 02:50 AM

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QUOTE(blitzboy @ Aug 11 2010, 09:17 PM)
Yes, you can be right to a certain extent, and we are living in Malaysia.
Most Malaysian consumers are the poor and middle income group and are very prudent in their spending, that's why you will find a mixture of pirated and original DVDs movies or game or titles PS2 or X-box in ALMOST every household in Malaysia. I am one of them, I buy original because as a consumer I want to support that actor/actress or singer to produce more movies or songs, and I also buy some pirated stuffs because I just want to listen or watch the content. Some of them, in which I find it good, I will go buy the original for collection.

RM100 for original blu-ray compared to RM25 for blu-ray copies of the same movie, which one would u buy? Not everyone of us here are as fortunate to always buy originals be it DVD or some other products.

I am sure you will agree with me, on such point that, do you want the fuel price to go up further say RM2.20 per liter or RM2.90 per liter? That's a BIG NO!! Right?

I can speculate those BIG BOYS up there has big influences to such extent whereby those producing originals and those making the imitation could possibly be the same group of people or they already knew each other, or even playing golf together, from the $$$$ they make from our spending.

The way I see it, there is a place for everyone, and therefore it should be a balance between them. Got good then sure got bad one, there is only a fine line seperates the good and bad. Got demand, then for sure got supply.

The rich will MOST of the time have the law siding them, or even the government siding them, to make $$$$$$ from the poor. They will hire the best lawyers to find a loophole in the legal system to make money, be it tax evasion or introducing a new product and using the law ensuring no one competes with them or stand in their way to take $$$$ from the poor. It's a conspiracy.

i really cant wait petrol price go up to RM3 above...
by that time nobody going to drive on the road...no more traffic jam..
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post Aug 12 2010, 12:14 PM

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QUOTE(refnulf @ Aug 11 2010, 10:56 PM)
Pretty simple. You buy original material, you're contributing to the salary of the actors and actresses, the people working in the film industry, the peons making the disc, and the distribution as well as everything else that comes in the package.

You buy pirated, you're contributing to organised crime. Helping the pirates contribute to their syndicates and for more crime to happen. It's all a cycle;drugs, prostitute, gambling, etc. Piracy is just another money maker for them. It's better to just dload from the net to be honest.

All in all, if you feel it's too expensive. Wait for good deals. Amazon has a ton of great deals everyday. If that's too much, then you probably shouldn't be watching movies. You should be working harder to enjoy a better lifestyle. That's what most of us have to do.

It's like when you watch a movie in the cinema, you're paying for the movie. That's how the studios recoup all the money spent making the film as well as all the salaries paid to all the actors, as well as making a profit. True, they probably make alot of money per movie and that's the money used to make better movies later on. Perhaps the stars and the studios do not deserve so much of money, that's not our call. You may try to justify your actions when you buy a pirated disc and come up with a bunch of believable reasons, but it still doesn't make it right.
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i agreed with you 100%... smile.gif
better download from the net... at least u didnt support those underground crimes... if u said it will clogs up our net bandwidth... we all can still limit the upload/download rate rite...
as for me... i'm moving to either open source or originals already... smile.gif

i understand how those jack sparrows supporter feels... i also one of those guys before... in fact my whole family still in those groups...
but when times goes by and we are able to spend our earnings on the originals, it is better for us to change also... but it is hard to change the malaysian's mentality on this...

QUOTE(maskedchan @ Aug 12 2010, 02:50 AM)
i really cant wait petrol price go up to RM3 above...
by that time nobody going to drive on the road...no more traffic jam..
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u got points there bro... i remember last 2 years when the petrol increase a lot... not much vehicle on the road at first... but after few days... they back to road again...
i think coz we cant stand our own public transport la...
rx330
post Aug 12 2010, 12:35 PM

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so if ori bluray is selling at rm 10-20 per pc, nobody or lesser ppl will buy pirated softwares? or even dl of the net?

so if tats the case, we have only ourselves to blame for for living in msia with a puny currency rate then


Frosty-Snowman
post Aug 12 2010, 01:30 PM

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Anyone bought BR from Arori (M) Sdn Bhd before?
I saw them listed inside Stuff and T3 Malaysia magazine? Are they legit cause their website listed something else instead of BR movies but the address listed in the magazine is an abandoned house with the company name in front.
xbox360ps3
post Aug 12 2010, 03:21 PM

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QUOTE(Frosty-Snowman @ Aug 12 2010, 01:30 PM)
Anyone bought BR from Arori (M) Sdn Bhd before?
I saw them listed inside Stuff and T3 Malaysia magazine? Are they legit cause their website listed something else instead of BR movies but the address listed in the magazine is an abandoned house with the company name in front.
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they should be legit. i saw they opened a booth during maybank treats fair in mid valley. also selling in public bank website

pbbemall

i believe its a local version aka speedy
htkaki
post Aug 12 2010, 05:24 PM

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They even have a booth in the recent KLIAV. Sure legit..
Lone*Wolf
post Aug 12 2010, 06:44 PM

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QUOTE(Frosty-Snowman @ Aug 12 2010, 01:30 PM)
Anyone bought BR from Arori (M) Sdn Bhd before?
I saw them listed inside Stuff and T3 Malaysia magazine? Are they legit cause their website listed something else instead of BR movies but the address listed in the magazine is an abandoned house with the company name in front.
*
Legit and ori stuff but whether they are all imported from the US like they claim is a different issue.
TSdaryl.k
post Aug 12 2010, 06:59 PM

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anyone seen The Dark Knight? I think its a perfect example of underworld vs legitimate business. Batman tries to squeeze the underworld ppl so bad, they resorted to rebel...in a bad way...

imho, there is a need for balance between both the underworld & legitimate business. strive one side too much till they reach the breaking point, then there's no telling how bad the ripple effect is gonna be.

whether piracy actually contributes to drugs, prostitution etc etc...i feel, at least with piracy as a 'side income' the warlords wont have to resort to increase their production in terms of drugs & prostitution. If all pirated DVD sellers were to loose their current job, they might be thinking of pushing drugs, or become human traffickers or even join robbery gangs just to continue paying for his Nissan GTR or Civic Type R..which is even worse...

but it doesn't mean i'm going all out supporting piracy. we can say a whole lot here, genuine title vs pirated titles...at the end, there's no stopping public from buying pirated movies. simple...not everyone is into the holiness of buying ori DVD or BD...not everyone wants to enjoy the HD effect of a movie...some just wanna watch the movie...

so, as per the movie, there needs to be a White Knight, as well as a Dark Knight...to balance things out...just my 2 cents...

our currency is not the issue with expensive BD movies...surely Speedy is aware amazon is selling BD movies some less than RM60 each..but they still selling RM150 per title. well...along the way...tax, customs, royalty bla bla bla...buy amazon...or from LYN sellers (legitimate ones) and we won't have to sponsor for some Dato's exotic super cars & multi-storey bungalows and multiple wives....
faidzal1982
post Aug 13 2010, 08:31 AM

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QUOTE(daryl.k @ Aug 12 2010, 06:59 PM)
anyone seen The Dark Knight? I think its a perfect example of underworld vs legitimate business.  Batman tries to squeeze the underworld ppl so bad, they resorted to rebel...in a bad way...

imho, there is a need for balance between both the underworld & legitimate business.  strive one side too much till they reach the breaking point, then there's no telling how bad the ripple effect is gonna be. 

whether piracy actually contributes to drugs, prostitution etc etc...i feel, at least with piracy as a 'side income' the warlords wont have to resort to increase their production in terms of drugs & prostitution.  If all pirated DVD sellers were to loose their current job, they might be thinking of pushing drugs, or become human traffickers or even join robbery gangs just to continue paying for his Nissan GTR or Civic Type R..which is even worse...

but it doesn't mean i'm going all out supporting piracy.  we can say a whole lot here, genuine title vs pirated titles...at the end, there's no stopping public from buying pirated movies.  simple...not everyone is into the holiness of buying ori DVD or BD...not everyone wants to enjoy the HD effect of a movie...some just wanna watch the movie...

so, as per the movie, there needs to be a White Knight, as well as a Dark Knight...to balance things out...just my 2 cents...

our currency is not the issue with expensive BD movies...surely Speedy is aware amazon is selling BD movies some less than RM60 each..but they still selling RM150 per title.  well...along the way...tax, customs, royalty bla bla bla...buy amazon...or from LYN sellers (legitimate ones) and we won't have to sponsor for some Dato's exotic super cars & multi-storey bungalows and multiple wives....
*
u got a good point there bro... but if our boleh land country law and authority is clean of corruption, i think there shouldnt be problem with the underworld networks...
currently they can sell the pirated stuff even when authority is 3-5 feet away from them... (i've seen this before)
so until our bolehland clean of corruption, we going to see this scenario again and again...

im not totally agree with u bout the currency issue... if i were to work in US with my current salary in malaysia... im sure can afford to buy lots of ori Blu-ray titles a months... our bolehland gov always said dat our prices for stuff especially petrol is much more cheaper than other countries... but they didnt compare it with dat country income vs the expense of the citizen...
For example... i earn rm3000 here in malaysia... one blu-ray title if import from amazon already cost rm60 - rm120 per title... if i spend rm200 per month for blu-ray, i can only afford to buy 2-3 titles per month...
but if i were in US and earn usd3000 which is possible for me.... one blu-ray title cost usd20 - usd40 per title... if i spend usd200 per month also, i can afford to buy 5 - 10 titles per month...

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post Aug 13 2010, 08:37 AM

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QUOTE(echoesian @ Aug 8 2010, 12:04 AM)
Bluray CD in Shenzhen is very cheap..

Btw, how is the shipping rate work on Amazon?
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Amazon to Malaysia = if u really want to buy from there, I suggest u take priority mail. More expensive, less hassle to get pass custom.

Expedited or Normal = u can't track unless they use USPS.
rx330
post Aug 13 2010, 11:39 AM

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daryl, i still think currency plays a big part in dollar to dollar sense

anyway, like u say, tax issues also contributes to the high price as well as shipping cost as well
TSdaryl.k
post Aug 13 2010, 11:55 AM

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QUOTE(rx330 @ Aug 13 2010, 11:39 AM)
daryl, i still think currency plays a big part in dollar to dollar sense

anyway, like u say, tax issues also contributes to the high price as well as shipping cost as well
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when i was in UK...i worked part time in potato factory, can earn daily about GBP35-40...each music CD cost about GBP6 sometimes GBP10 for 2 CD...back in M'sia...work part time each day earn RM40...each CD is RM40 rclxub.gif

but cant do nothing about it ma...can only live with it..

DVD used to cost alot...but now can get ori DVD (new movies) for less than RM25...why ar? could it be possible in near future for BD?
starship1
post Aug 13 2010, 01:03 PM

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perhaps our taxes are too high , there are entertainment tax , leisure tax , relaxation tax and probably listening and viewing tax .

there are foot reflex and masak tax as well .

and not to forget , many retailers are profiteers due to lack of competition


low98944
post Aug 13 2010, 01:34 PM

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QUOTE(starship1 @ Aug 13 2010, 01:03 PM)
perhaps our taxes are too high , there are entertainment tax , leisure tax , relaxation tax and probably listening and viewing tax  .

there are foot reflex and masak tax as well .

and not to forget , many retailers are profiteers due to lack of competition
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US don't have tax la? laugh.gif How much is our tax and their tax at respective state?
Andrewtst
post Dec 15 2010, 04:38 PM

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I think Pirated BD already upgrade.

It seems method of checking pirated BD where more darker surface is not a way anymore.

I seen and found latest pirated BD already use similar disc as original, seems not a BD-R anymore as the surface look clear and bright like original one and the front surface is pre-printed, not like previous use sticker one.

If check the in-near circle and consuming 25GB layer is pirated also not true as some movie origin is 25GB as well.

The only can differentiate now seems is the print quality, pirated print quality on disc surface and cover is not as sharp and clear like original.

Another way is, I believe due to space issue, pirated BD extra features often halfway cut, not complete, pixel or sometimes not a correct content, example put trailer in the extra content that suppose is the making.

Support Original

This post has been edited by Andrewtst: Dec 15 2010, 04:41 PM
trapezohedron13
post Dec 15 2010, 09:24 PM

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oh noes...i come here for an answer, now even more worried :s

 

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