Hi guys/gals,

Do u ever encounter situation where u need to punch card when goin for lunch break ? If u late there will be deduction on ur salary =_=

This is the first time i working in OFFICE job that require me to punch card for going out for lunch, it make me feel like working as promoter ( last time part time job) where u need to punch in n out for lunch. That one totally understand in promoter / retail job but i working in OFFICE....

wow.. u have one control-freak employer...

nope. never experience that before..

yupz...just joined this company not more than 2 months...

2nd month they implement this kind of rules...

worst still they will deduct salary if anyone punch in late for morning and if consistent late they give u warning letter...

i was like WTF, been working around 3 years first time hear this kind of SXXX

How hard is it to bloody clock in and out for attendance? If you are dissatisfied, please take it up to your Management. You just making yourself a bloody nincompoop. If you know they are going to deduct an amount out from your punctuality, then by all means, don't be bloody late. Is it very bloody hard for you to do?

Regards, Joey

I got to agree with Joey, here.

For your information, I never heard clocking in for lunch. I seen clocking in for morning, in and out for lunch, out for the evening. Lunch only - No.

You agree with someone on an issue which you have never heard b4?

True your employer is a super control freak who doesnt "trust" his/her employee's enough to be responsible during their lunch hour. Your boss happen to be a "china-man"?

The policies which your boss mets out is a clear indication of that persons personality and ethical standing.

This post has been edited by crapp0: Jun 29 2010, 10:06 AM

Company rules are company rules. Why get so up tight about it. You think is better to stick around to rebel or challenge it or would you be better off to find another job if you are not willing to comply?

My main concern is punch out during LUNCH time not for MORNING SESSION

I hereby to seek advise/opinion from others whether they encounter this kind of situation or not

Its not hard for me to do so, I as DEGREE holder punching in n out making me feel like a blardy promoter which i worked be4 last time

I DIN SAID I DISSATISFIED, I JUST FEEL AKWARD

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Added on June 29, 2010, 10:10 amTotally Chinaman dude....if my company around 10 employee then ok la...

but in fact our number around 50-80 ppl...

u expecting everyone queuing to punch card just for break? u know the crowd? u have no idea

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Added on June 29, 2010, 10:12 amu should read the first post too...which part of the sentence i mention i not willing to stick the rules? i not happy? i goin to rebel?

I JUST ASKING DO U EVER ENCOUNTER

thats all i asked



This post has been edited by maru: Jun 29 2010, 10:12 AM

Just becoz there is a rule doesnt make it a good rule.

Only idiots follow rules and laws without thinking through the actual merit of that particular law or rule just becoz a higher authority stipulates it.

This post has been edited by crapp0: Jun 29 2010, 10:16 AM

Do you understand the saying, "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change" by Charles Darwin?

Regards, Joey

In essence, you gotta "kow tow" to your boss demands.

not like we dont obey, if many company are practicing it so i will obey since it already accepted by the community but as for my case, as far as i know this is the first time i heard such thing. So out of my curiosity i open this thread n ask around bro/sis do they ever encounter this kind of situation only.

This post has been edited by maru: Jun 29 2010, 10:24 AM

You could say i encountered this b4 but they dont deduct pay unless its an unreasonably long duration.

Coz in a semi-con factory, in order to go out for lunch from the premise, you need to tap out your card so it is sort of a punch card and they never mention specifically that you need to get back within an hour, but then again we know its an hour so we usually come back within an hours time or a little over.

I had my fair share in clocking in when I'm coming in for work in the morning. When it's lunch time, I clock out for lunch. After I finished my hearty meal, I clock in again to resume my work. When it is time to leave the office after work, I'll clock out again.

In addition, I've worked in a company whereby one has to use both card and biometric finger print just to access to certain areas/quarters of the company. Adherence to rules and regulations or policies and procedures doesn't equate to "kowtow-ing" to your boss. It is irrelevant and is utter bloody stupid to say if one to follow the red-tapes as to having bow and giving in to the Management.

If one is not nit-picking or even has any disgruntled manner towards clocking out for lunch, then one should just suit up and follow or maybe take it to the Management. It could be a good feedback to the Management in accordance to the "clocking out for lunch rituals."

Who knows you'll get promoted or being lambasted by being a dumb arse Degree holder with nothing else to do except to voice discontent with the above mentioned practice which I must say, menial and nothing worth voicing out.

Regards, Joey

This post has been edited by Joey Christensen: Jun 29 2010, 10:40 AM

Once happen during working as waiter @ Chinese restaurant

Split Shift ( 10- 2 , 6- 10) That's the time i need to punch card 4 times a day. But it's standard for operational job


Now I'm in office job, no need punch card during lunch time. What's the point for punching card just for 1 hour lunch time lol?

Other than agree with Joey, did I not tell you I never heard such thing too. I did entertain you request. So I am not allow to voice other opinion? I merely ask if it was worth you while being a trouble maker in such or company or woul it be easier to leave such work place.

The fiscal viability of the company is essential and can be limited by the amount of time an people takes off work or simply do not turn up at all. The productivity goes down and the proprietors lose a large quantity of variable and fixed resources. There are methods to control every staff is showing up to their place of work everyday or even taking an hour off for lunch. Did you know, it is one of the reasons why punctuality is fundamental for any business?

Regards, Joey

The point is the boss is worried that his workers are taking more then the allocated amount of time to have lunch, so hence the "leash" aka punch time just for lunch. I guess the boss has trust issues with his employees, if not, he/she wouldnt need to do this.

This post has been edited by crapp0: Jun 29 2010, 10:48 AM

Trust is gained, not given.

Obviously your boss may have noticed people coming in late for work, and taking >1 hr for lunch.

I am aware of an company about similiar size as yours, 80+. They use door access card, although not specified, but the HR tracks it. There is one contract worker, getting about 8k. Divide 22 days for 1 month, that's rm364 per day. He always come in late by one hour, and take lunch 1.5 hrs, and he goes back on time most of the day.

Which means every day, he is under-working 1.5 hours (after deduct 1 hr lunch). For 22 days, that's
22 x 1.5 hrs
= 33 hrs / 8 hr day
= 4.125 working day x rm364 per day
= rm1,501.50 potential loss

This is the loss for one staff only. Imagine how much he loses out if there are 20 staff like that.

On the other hand, there are pros and cons of rigid control vs flexibility. The problem is, many Asians will misuse the flexibility given, e.g. browse and reply LYN here

Ouch! Keep it hush hush...I'm just fortifying and solidifying my applied knowledge in the process of sharing my bytes and doing a fair share of communal contributions. It's a good thing, you see. But of course I would appreciate if one to keep hush hush about our good deeds that we are doing here.

This post has been edited by Joey Christensen: Jun 29 2010, 11:06 AM

I've audited lots of companies, and some do have penalties for long breaks, lateness etc. Some don't care how little time you spend in office, as long as you get your job done.

This is called company culture, is it not?

My current company has an electronic door pass system. So we have to flash our cards every time we exit the main office area ie. to go the lift lobby, pantry, toilets, fire escape etc. Every time we flash the card, the details are recorded. Our admin has exact records of how much time we spent each day in the office, what time we come in leave, how many toilet breaks, trips to pantry, smoke (fire escape!). So, if the company wants to be really uptight about the 40 hours per week, 8.30am - 5.30pm written in our employment contracts - they can. But then again, our culture is "You are free to come and go as long as you get the job done. Just don't overdo it".

I know someone in admin knows I come in at 9.30/10am each morning and leave by 4.30/5pm. But I also know someone in IS knows that I do email at night and during weekends. My boss knows that when I travel on business, I lose my nights and my weekends. So, it's all ok. The culture permits it.

At the end of the day - you should look for a company which culture you enjoy. Otherwise, you have to learn to tolerate it. If you can't tolerate, you should leave. You won't thrive there.

I guess your company is too strict. I've been working for two different company and both does not require me to punch card during lunch hour. My previous company is even more flexible. All the employees are free to come in and go back at whatever time they want as long as they get the job done. I've seen my colleague coming in at 11.30am, have more than an hour lunch and goes back exactly at 5.30pm.

Not just asians, everybody does it. Even my norwegian colleague also surf facebook which i tak layan anymore since its beginning to be a chore.

well, most chinamen company r like that....

some company even don't care if u r late in punching in bcos of traffic, lrt rosak / whatever mishap cos for them "IT IS YOUR FAULT FOR NOT COMING ON TIME"

worst still if u forgot to punch in or out for the day, cos they consider u "DIDN'T WORK ON THAT DAY"

what do u think abt this kind of company eh???

This post has been edited by willow: Jun 29 2010, 12:19 PM

Back in the 80s, this was common practise.

Rules are made to be followed, for a specific reason by the company, i.e. they may want to save 50 sen but make it hell for the staff.

Traffic is a very bad excuse. Everyone knows traffic is bad in the morning peak hours. If you know you are generally late by 10 minutes, try going out 20-30 minutes earlier. Or find another job that is flexi-hours.

LRT/Bus/other incidental lateness, I believe is subjective. Once a month is still consider acceptable to me. But if onec a week, every week, then better prepare to find your own solutions to come to work, or find another job.

LRT too full, and have to wait 5-8 trains before can board, is not an excuse either. You know it is normal to be like that in morning, so go earlier to queue. Cannot wake up ? Go find other jobs that is flexi or working afternoon/evening/night shift.

The punch clock/card is there for a reason, and I'm sure they inform the staff about it when they join. You forgot ? Then deduct $. Try it a few more times, and I believe you won't forget about it anymore. Practise makes perfect. Otherwise, find another job, if you think you are losing money in this job for not clocking in /out properly.

I think it is fine for different companies to have different level of strict or flexi rules. It is for you as an employee to fit/adapt into the environment. The environment won't change to fit you, unless you are the boss/major share holder/ CEO. If you can't fit in, come here to LYN to express yourself, then goto careers section to find other jobs.

well, believe me "certain" company still practice this

It was solely your discretion to accept the employment opportunity with the said company. What do I think about this company? Nothing. It is because you have accepted the offer in the first place. Who is the decision maker? You, yourself, right?

sure, cos i've accept this job in the 1st place but the catch is these so called rules & regulations were not explained (fully) verbally / in the contract / even given a copy of the rules & regulations....

you only "found out" abt it after u sign the d*mn things, through other colleagues & the so called copy inside the staff room....

This post has been edited by willow: Jun 29 2010, 12:45 PM

i agree that some rules and regulations were not written in the contract. but do take the time to ask abt the work culture before signing the offer letter.

but then again some of us are too happy with the job offer that we sign blindly. like me for instance...

Pioneers usually say rules are meant to be broken.

work culture.... i'm sorry if i sound cynical but how many really tell ppl the "REAL" situations whether work wise & ppl in the "office" / "management".

yup, i've learnt the hard way not 2 b so complacent abt a job offer nowadays...

If one to put in a written form of rules and regulations and all that it is to it, you would be reading a textbook of documented materials. That would be utter nonsense and bloody absurd, right? What about ad hoc assignments from time to time? Oh my...damn those Management for not telling me or didn't put forth in plain ink and paper. Holy Christ! What am I going to do about it then?

You weave and sieve through the whole wide of non-written and/or non-documented matters. That's how one learn through an organisational behaviour over a passage of time working. Oh, you could gain a few grains of informative material via grapevines too. Who says the pantry is just for coffee and snacks, eh?

Regards, Joey

Look, its not like asking the management to detail everything in the offer letter. Stating working hours and lunch hours would be sufficient. In fact my previous company does that.

my current company does not state those thing in the offer letter but we have a company website which details the rules and regulations. But its just regulations and my company practice tolerance in the work culture.

To be honest, it's just one way or the other. The end result remains the same. In the end of the rainbow, it is whom is affecting whom and whom is being effected.

Regards, Joey

... and management say salary to be deducted

If these things are a major issue, the person should note it down and ask these questions in future interviews. Don't worry, there is no right/wrong in asking questions during interview. I do have fresh grad asking questions, e.g. Does company provide in-building car park and pay full/subsidise it ?

There are just too many rules and regulations to explain during interview. Even the employee handbook itself can be very lengthy, and most staff (not all though) do not read all of it. Until dispute comes out, and the staff start finding excuse. Some simple things for you, can be very complicated and tough for other people.

Coming back to punch card and punctuality, if the staff of the organisation does not misuse the minor-allowance given on time management, the management will not be so strict on it. e.g. 5 minutes late every day is fine. But if it becomes a habit and delay to 15 minutes or more, other staff may follow and in the end a major discipline problem on attendance and time management.

My rule is simple if you want me to be punctual in and out make sure you let me leave sharp 5.15pm. If your employer is not considerate why bother working for them?! the company needs me more than i need them. I usually have to spend my time working till 7+ and onwards. lunch time slightly late and they want to come and buck me.... they gonna kena. Anyway if they want ppl to be punctual then make sure they got tempat makan either in the office or around the office. If you need to drive out for lunch how can you reach office sharp 1 hour time?

+1..

i've been with this kind of company before
lunch time only 40min..no cafe inside so need to eat lunch outside
very troublesome

Isnt it better to have your lunch outside since more variety? unless your in a campus or self sustain building.

If you cant leave your work premise, its little more then a glorified prison, heck even in the US prisoners also can earn money.

This post has been edited by crapp0: Jul 1 2010, 09:01 AM

I guess you only have previous employees to blame.

It isnt much of a problem unless you are one of those who take long lunch breaks. Or the lunch break is like 30 mins only.

If you don't like the way the company manages its staff, i.e. you, then quit and find a new job. No point complaining about fairness, equality, etc, etc, etc. Your best protest is your services. Hit them where it hurts, change job.

The root of the matter is obligation and responsibility. When you sign the contract, it states what are your working hours. You are expected to adhere to it, just like how your company is expected to adhere to the amount of salary they promised you.

Let's say the position is reversed. This month your company pay you RM50 less in your salary. Next month they pay you 1 week later than usual. Following month they don't pay your claims in full. "Aiyah.... little little things, nvm ba. Next time we pay all ok?"

In a case like that, you also won't stand for it. In my last 12 yrs of working, I notice a lot of employees want a "give and take / understanding" attitude from their employer, but only when they are "taking", not "giving"

Not saying that abusive and petty employers are right. But I believe if we commit to fixed work hours, its our responsibility to be there. Traffic jam? Then wake up earlier. No time to eat lunch? Then tapau.

when i think back and look at my current working situation, i think i prefer coming in at 9am and goes back at 5pm with 1 hour lunch. Normally i dun take lunch, starts reading my email or do work at 8am, sometimes 7am. at times work at home till late nights. then there is the working on saturday or sundays on adhoc basis..

damn.. gonna tell my boss that I'm gonna adhere to working hours..