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 V3. Swiftlet Keeping Discussion, Home of Fuciphagus Domesticus

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West Wing
post Sep 5 2011, 10:36 AM

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QUOTE(mois @ Sep 5 2011, 09:09 AM)
Does this industry still got future? Price 3.4k now. So ridicolous low sad.gif
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One buyers mentioned Rm3700 for 1/2 cups but actually, there is no quote at the moment on EBN for Indo as the authorities in China is now taking action against illegal EBN and I presume over 90% of nests in China are illigally exported from Indo into China thru HK and that's the reason that cause the so called Crisis of SN in the nests supposely from Malaysia but actually from Indonesia under water thru HK. Documents of trade like import invoice maybe fraud easily

Therefore, all retail outlets and importers are stop buying and infact trying hard to hide nests not imported legally and therefore, here we experience a time where there is no quotation for EBN and what price quoted are from local middlemen trying to speculate and even buyers for Vietnam which is buying our corner nests are lowering the price of these nests since they are offering Rm3700 for half cup and what about 1/4 cup nests which should fetch lower than the 1/2 cup ones.

The right price for 1/4 nests should be the same @ Rm3500 as the manufacturers @ Vietnam aren't affected by the crisis in China. One buyer in Malaysia even quoted everything, 1/2 or 1/4 cup and even broken ones @ Rm3100...

So, my advice is to hold back and not to sell as by selling will only cause the price to drip further downward.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Sep 5 2011, 10:40 AM
West Wing
post Sep 6 2011, 10:53 AM

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QUOTE(benchai @ Sep 5 2011, 12:15 PM)
I am just being paranoid. This may be just testing water by China and watch the reaction before forcing  the producer to sell all raw BN to china and have them process to  China 's standard.

This will then open up thousands of BN processing plant and create hundreds of thousand of jobs in china . Also imagine the saving in foreign exchange!!!

Just my paranoid mind.
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I had the honor of visiting a processing EBN factory in Shenzhen by the accompany of 2 malaysian buyers who take us to a tour of the factory which is very big by Malaysian standard and just average China factory.

He show us everything but not the processing part of the factory which he boosted more than 40 nests one day by each worker by his special method of cleansing. At the factory, I could see tour buses coming in to buy EBN in form of dry and bottled types and mostly all China tourists. See, we may produce the nests but the Chinese really know how to market them in China.

He invited us to invest in China to retail EBN and he can help to supply us with the processed nests. He even offered to help us to export the nest to China trouble free and all we need is a minimum of 50Kgs of raw nests and he will fly down to Malaysia and pick up the nests at our place and deliver to our destination at Guangzhou without a fee and all what is necessary is to allow him to process the nests. 50Kg @ Malaysia will be 50Kg delivered @ Guangzhou destination with all documents required if needed.

1. How 50K become 50K after processed......answer is dry during collection and 50K of 10% wet after cleaning. The problem is....is the same nests delivered @ destination
2. How he can just export the 50K nests so easily and yet we experiance so much difficulties? You may try to answer that cos I am Blind!
3. The sample bottled nests provided to us taste different to an experienced user of taking birdnest almost 3 times a week ( not that I can afford but I got the nests for FOC).

My curiosity pay off because after a KOK with him did I realised that like most of China Buz, fellowship is very improtant and guests he invited to the night fellowship include afew heads of Govt. Department in Guangzhou.....even the head incharged of taking samples of birdnests. This guy told me that the nests will be inspected at his plant. So, Corruption is everywhere and every type and every way so close one door will only open a few more doors someway else.

The Product of Malaysia documentations maybe printed in China for the Chinese by the Chinese and of the Chinese. Agreed?

Hope that the above is of help to those wanting to spread their wings in China.

West Wing
post Sep 6 2011, 01:21 PM

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QUOTE(tigerwui @ Sep 6 2011, 12:11 PM)
Dear WW & others expertist,

I new in this field and i got a bird house night time temperature reach 24degree. My bird house locate in the middle of jungle and cover by lot of trees. I check the external temperature at night is also 24degree. I tried to close some of the ventilation hole but not much improvement. My bird house come with 2pcs of exhaust fan, is it ok to turn the exhaust fan off? According to my Sifu, he not allow me to turn it off becoz it will affect the air flow inside. is this correct?
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To me, the air circulation are mainly for us and lesser for the birds so that we don't suffocate inside the BH during our maintenance or harvesting. BIrds really can stand the Ammonia as any visit to successful Bhs will tell. If you can't, a visit to swiftlets cave would. So, no exhaust fan necessary at all for new BHs if your BH isn't hot and even V holes need to be reduced. Air circulation is for fresh air for the health of animal mostly of human origin which is very weak compare to other wild animals

My suggestion is to save your electricity on your exhaust fan and better spend it on me over a coffee and you learn more. ...just kidding hahaha.

Best of Luck to you.

By the way, a friend asked me on which is the best type of insects eggs powder and those using maybe able to help this friend although I never encourage people using such products.

ps. I really need your Exhaust fans as the ammonia really blind me at time but the birds seem to like it..........I may go and buy the WW 2 gas mask at secondhand/reject shop for my health.
West Wing
post Sep 7 2011, 08:43 PM

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As I see it,

Why don’t we find dangerous viruses or harmful bacterial in swiftlets guano and maybe, we have been looking into the opposite of the whole ecosystem as we are trying to find fault and danger in the swiftlet and its guano .
The swiftlets guano may have the unseen activities so crucial to our ecosystem and may have benefited in the crucial cycle in food chain or neutralization of dangerous gases. There are bad germs and viruses and there are certainly good ones and maybe, in swiftlet guano, we may find unseen activities that maybe crucial to the world ecosystem.

The swiftlets guano may contain billions of good bacteria that could help us to solve our environment like the good old birdnests that prove to benefited us. We In our conservation efforts should try to understand the guano which may help us to understand why the swiftlets do not get deadly diseases like other fowls. Maybe, the reason being that they never touch the ground so they didn’t get the diseases but also maybe they are immune to these diseases due to the good bacteria in their body and also present in their guano.

West Wing
post Sep 8 2011, 05:05 PM

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QUOTE(rakyat @ Sep 8 2011, 02:25 PM)
Dear Walet Sifus,

Would appreciate it if I can get some advises and pointers on the business as I have zero knowledge. Recently I came across an opportunity to invest in a BH in my hometown (Perak); this is a scheme btw 4 childhood friends where one of us has 5 acres of agricultural land which is left dormant while another friend has just ventured into Birdnest farming and actively looking for more opportunities.

Hence a business proposal is in the making where the landowner will be a 50% stakeholder while the other 3 will need to contribute RM50k each as capital. A 30 years lease will be signed and RM125k will be used to build a 2.5 storied BH with all necessary fittings. The person with experience will run supervise the overall business.

I would like to know if it is a feasible deal and what are the anticipated pitfalls? Is RM125k a reasonable price? Besides the superstructure, what other fitting should we expect to put into the BH? I know that we will need to have timber structure on the roof, PA system, love portion? ammonia and an automated humidifier; kindly advise on other preliminary fittings.

Assuming that the land price is RM40k per acre, how would other sifus structure the agreement in order to create a win-win situation (we are small towners grown up together hence do not want any party disadvantaged)

OTOH is it a good idea to install solar cells on the roof for the tarrif feed-in from TNB i.e. to sell back electricity to TNB? (the land has electricity line and TNB meter)?

Thank you very much and appreciate the feedbacks
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I haven't done any JV before but many of friends having JV on shoplot for a 20-25 years tenancy agreement and only cost them RM30K and here you guys have invested RM125K and the actual figure may go up much more than that if you consider other expenses.

For me, at least 50 years lease on the land will be a better term and such terms and conditions like
1. The partners shall pay the land owner a monthly rental for the land if there is no dividend after 3 years. This is to prevent the other party not doing enough to lure birds.
2. The other party may sell off his share in the JV with the blessing of the land owner.
3. The land can only be use for BH purposes only and not for other Buz to prevent the land owner being cheated.
4. Total transparency of the JV so as to ensure honesty and sincerity of the JV.

The above are what I can think off and what I would do in any such JV. Remember that the owner come out only the Land (valued @ Rm100K).

This post has been edited by West Wing: Sep 8 2011, 06:03 PM
West Wing
post Sep 10 2011, 03:41 PM

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QUOTE(kohloh @ Sep 8 2011, 06:36 PM)
THE MALAYSIA HERO,,,,,,,,,,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THqWbEt6auA
MANY HERE R HIS FOLLOWS,,,,,,
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That Mr Tan!!!! He teach all to use right cleaning method and ensure that all nests are 100% pure and now, he is trying to push Rednest ????? Hope that not the truth cos I even heard of him trying to sell China investors the idea of breeding and swiftlets farming in China and one friend told me that he sold alot of eggs to him for this venture.

How true is it, I pun tak tahu lah??? So, Mr. Tan, I think maybe you also read this forum can kindly explain?
West Wing
post Sep 11 2011, 11:40 AM

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QUOTE(oneup @ Sep 11 2011, 10:05 AM)
All operators and exporters of EBN has to register at http:fosimdomestic.moh.gov.my on the news today.
Does that includes bh owners? Some say yes some say no. Any1 can confirm abt this?
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Now, everybody want a share in the big cake and slowly and obviously, sooner or later, you shall find more and more government bodies wanting a piece of the cake..........department like the health ministry, bomba and infact all govt. departments!!!!!!!!!

How come others don't attract such attention like pig, fish or fowl or anytype but just swiftlets?????? Self regulation by the Association with the support of the Government should be the best way to spearhead the healthy development of the industry without too many cooks.
West Wing
post Sep 12 2011, 10:43 AM

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QUOTE(oneup @ Sep 11 2011, 11:33 PM)
That means bh owners too?


Added on September 11, 2011, 11:34 pmIf bh owners too, there pose a huge problem...
They haven't even solve the issue of bh in city area...
If ppl have bh in city, who would register? It not legal anyways...
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Before, it was blessed by the authorities and then it become illegal. Are we now running illegal buz????

Before, it the town BHs having the problem and now, every BHs must be registered even BHs in the jungle and by the way, what was the initial reason behind the registration of BH?

In my opinion, only BHs at town need to be regulated and not those in plantation or agriland cos nobody even control chicken or duck rearing at agriland. TO ensure maximum growth in this industry, minimum interference with maximum support from the government is needed. New methods or improvement shall be provided by the govt. depts concerning the industry to ensure best results and success rate by giving free training and guidance by caring government to its raayat to ensure properties to the country.......like what they give to the other agriculture industries and not giving more and more worries and headache not to mention sleepless night every time some news leak out.

Like all investment, confidence is very important but the government and the Fed. Association isn't helping at all to ease the situation and sentiment of the industry. Providing positive directives and advices are definitely essential to the successful future of the whole industry and as always, I give better comment by giving confidence and encourage raayat to invest in the industry in win win way ......providing safe breeding places (BH) for the swiftlets and ensuring maximum output of fledged birds and in the future, there will be more and more birds and with better results for all including all that breed the young birds to share. Like the saying goes" Where got rice if we eat all the rice"

Healthy harvesting ensure better harvesting next season.........
West Wing
post Sep 12 2011, 12:08 PM

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QUOTE(mois @ Sep 12 2011, 10:51 AM)
What do u mean by healthy harvest? Only harvest when the young swiftlet start to fly?
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Healthy Harvest is harvesting the nests after the birds fledged so that there will be a continuously new generation of swiftlets and if everyone in the industry doing the same, there will certainly be an great improvement of the success rate story and hopefully instate of 20% successful and 80& failure; we shall have 80% successful BHs and 20% failure due to wrong choice of location or method used only.

IshaAllah, we all prosper
West Wing
post Sep 12 2011, 01:12 PM

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QUOTE(mois @ Sep 12 2011, 12:27 PM)
Oh i get it. Yeah it is important to harvest this way so that future swiftlet population will increase more. Do u mind answer my previous question on swiftlet life cycle?
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Do you know the reason why it sometime take me more than 3 weeks to harvest all the nests as I need to ensure the birds in the nests that I harvested have fledged. I usually go into the BH and removed only those nests used and spare those new and also those with young birds, chicks and eggs if any. By looking at the appearance of the young birds in the nests shall determine my next harvest and normally shall be 1 week,approximately. Then I shall harvest again and again until all nests can be harvested are taken down but sometime, the birds lay their egg before we can harvest and so, the duration of cycle maybe shorten in this case as the birds need not build a new nest but just add alittle more to the nest and sometime, the birds lay eggs in half completed nests so the actual time taken cannot be proven and just estimated.


Just my experience and method of harvesting to share.

West Wing
post Sep 13 2011, 12:10 PM

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Appreciate that many here to share their problems and knowledge with the rest and we truly are a lucky group.

Here, I wish to share some knowledge if your Amplifier break down or seem to be lesser in loudness.. or not sound at all; you better check for short circuit in tweeters as most of the case, it's due to the reason and most of older BHs do experience such problem as they use inferior china wire which may burn out.

Once, I went to a friend's BH and found that although all wire seem to be OK but there is a break in the middle of the wire...and that's chinese wire to you.....using all nonsense metal in the wire. Instate of searching for a needle in the haystack, better change the wire or else after repair this one, another one will break and this time, you may not be lucky cos the wire maybe shorted and thus burn your amplifier.....I have seem smoking amps and hot amps; all due to short circuit in these wire.

I may not be an electronic expert but will advice you to use condenser for the tweeters if you wish to have better output and also to protect the amp. from breakdown cos any short circuit at the tweeter will blow the condenser first and your amp will still see another day.

An experience to share with friends.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Sep 13 2011, 12:12 PM
West Wing
post Sep 14 2011, 11:33 AM

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QUOTE(ta5851 @ Sep 14 2011, 11:04 AM)
Hai, i am new in swiftlet keeping, just want to know how often should we clean the bird shit? heard some sifu said we are not suppose to clean the bird shit since bird like their smell very much.....thanks for advice
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Do visit a swiftlets cave and get your answer.

Cleaning is maintain health and better nests cos most BHs are too low and polution @ birdnests.

For those very particular on nests quality, do clean more often
For those very particular on birds increment. do less cleaning

My suggestion

Never clean up when new cos you want the aroma and not willing to pay for the smell and what better than the origin smell.
Clean occasionally when OK cos you don't want to disturb too much but want to have a healthy BH.
Clean often when very successful as then, quality is what you want and volume isn't a topic at all.
West Wing
post Sep 15 2011, 06:35 PM

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QUOTE(TinkleBell @ Sep 15 2011, 12:46 PM)
Hi WW.

<Cleaning is maintain health and better nests cos most BHs are too low and polution @ birdnests.>

When you do the cleaning, do you clean up everything or have to leave some
behind for the smell?
Ans: I don't need to leave any behind cos tomorrow, there will be plentiful.

<For those very particular on nests quality, do clean more often>

I heard that after some time, they will be mites built up in the birds' poop.  The mite will bite and suck the blood of baby birds and will also left one's skin itchy.  How to deal with this mite. Using chemical will leave a strong smell which might drive the birds away?
Ans: When you need chemical spray....you are already there and no problem with the birds; just you with the chemical. Although, we really don't know the prolong usage of chemical in the BH but then, to control pest and mites, one need to use the chemical spray but I only use it when I find that I need it but not on regular basis like many others cos I believe a bite here and there is less dangerous than the chemical inhale into our lung. Maybe, once every 6 months for successful BHs will just do.

<Never clean up when new cos you want the aroma and not willing to pay for the smell and what better than the origin smell.>

I heard one guy recommended that for new BH,for first 2 years do not do any harvesting as this method will speed up the population in the building.
Ans: As for me, it's all depend on the performance of that particular BH but never harvest all but leave some nests to tempt other new birds to build nest near confidently. That's why you use fake nests, don't you?

I do not understand as once the fledging left the nest, the nest will not be recycle again.  Birds will build new nest for fresh lay.  If so, how does not harvesting helps in the multiplication of birds???
Ans: once used, the bird will reuse the nest if not harvested but will build it thicker and so you got thicker nest which will fetch lower price but you gain on time.

<Clean occasionally when OK cos you don't want to disturb too much but want to have a healthy BH.
Clean often when very successful as then, quality is what you want andnvolume isn't a topic at all.>

Very good advice.  My appreciation. flex.gif  rclxms.gif  icon_rolleyes.gif

WW, have you heard of a big project for BH in Jerangau, somewhere near the polo club.  News or rumours that 40% harvest there is blood nest!!!  I thought West Malaysia do not have blood nest, very confuse  rclxub.gif

Ans: Don't want to talk too much on the matter but just say that you can produce a square watermelon so why cannot red nest but not the purest form of nests that I can say.

Thank you in advance for your time and effort in here.

Have a good day.
thumbup.gif
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Hope I answered you well.


West Wing
post Sep 20 2011, 11:18 AM

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enclosed swiftlets farming also called integrated swiftlets farming or something of such is obviously very dangerous.

1. It create in breeding and that's bad as we understand that most animal species die out due to in breeding. their immune abilities lessen but the germs and viruses mutate every time and therefore, cross breeding is always the best unless the species are about to extinct. This isn't happening to our domesticated swiftlets.

2.These buz should not be called " Swiftlets Sanctuary' as they do not provide sanctuary but caged free species and should be refer to factory or plant or something of such but never "Sanctuary", anything but not Sanctuary!!!!

3. By feeding them with man made food is also wrong in my opinion unless these ar fallen chicks.


West Wing
post Sep 20 2011, 12:01 PM

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QUOTE(mois @ Sep 20 2011, 11:43 AM)
That is called aeroswiftlet i heard not long time ago. Not a natural swiftlet farming. Sigh what happen to people these days. They think they are innovative, but instead it is so stupid.

BTW WW, what is your current place price for 1 kg nests? At what price should we sell? Now here rm3.4k. We dont sell any yet though.
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These guys aren't stupid but very smart and intelligent; So innovative like those guys making fake nests and make millions dollars and only those who believe in them are F****, They are fishing for "water turtles" to dump their saving into their projects....my opinion only.

I did asked a buyer why he offered such low price and his answer was that there was no official quote for the nests and so he offered his own quote. He told me that if I think that it too cheap to sell, then keep it for a better price and he will buy and also will keep the nests to speculate on it. So, to be safe, he buy low to ensure that he won't loss incase the price drop.........honest answer I would say.

To sell or not to sell is the question of the day as to sell to allow the price to drop and not to sell but then how do you prevent others from selling and so the price may drop without you selling unless all are not selling. Impossible ....... so if you need the cash, then sell cos the price may drop further but I wouldn't sell and will keep my nest for a better price.....

No one can give you an advice on the matter and you and you alone can decide on the matter concerned.

A suggestion, get a chiller to store your nests to maintain its freshness ie whiteness or otherwise it will turn brownish.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Sep 20 2011, 05:39 PM
West Wing
post Sep 22 2011, 02:57 PM

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QUOTE(swiftlailai @ Sep 21 2011, 11:26 PM)
Hi Brother West Wind how are you? I have been hibernating so quite some times already.  Hope every 1 is fine here. The correct word to use is i think SWIFTLET RANCHING. This phrase was used by Veterinary Dept Dr. Fazilah during our seminar in Kuala Terengganu/Pulau Kapas many years ago.

2. I would like to get members opinion here about nesting planks....should it be kept clean while installing, no dirt on the timbers. mine a lot on earth stain used to seal the gaps between ceiling and nesting planks and according to the person who visited my birdhouse, he asked me to change all the planks. Some are also stained due to high humidity because the previous CON-SUL-TANT used light red meranti and not dark red meranti like Meranti Bukit or Nemesu. Sad to say that mine is a failed one with only less than 200 nests after 3 years... cry.gif  cry.gif  cry.gif Please help... notworthy.gif  notworthy.gif  notworthy.gif

3. As to the tweeters cable, ya they used cheap China cable and most of the tweeters ( cheap ones too) are not working. I have changed all the wires and using good tweeters. The work was just completed 3 weeks ago. The friend now advice me to change the nesting planks.....more ringgit will fly away.....and it is getting difficult now (financially).

4. My is a stand alone in rubber/fruit plantation land of 2 acres situated in Terengganu.

Ideas and suggestions please....Thanks for your time.
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Hi, you must be well off to be able to hibernate for so long......kidding lah.

Not many BH owners use Dark Red meranti as these are expensive and more difficult to work with. Too much moisture at the planks will weaken the plank and make it very soft so soft that you practically karate chop 3 pcs of the plank without any black belt and worst fungus will grow with many colors. I have seen black and also white type of fungus that like nest base.

Dirty plank can be clean with wet cloth and if stained, just sand paper it off.

Meranti Bukit now cost over Rm3K, right?? Some guys said that light red meranti don't last but most of those old BHs that I know are over 15 years and still having the old planks up there but do add more new planks because of shortage of staying area....and not because of old planks. The only old BH that changed planks are those failed or still not satisfied owners even after having 5-6 thousands as those about the same aged BH did have over 10K do renovate and even change to new planks.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Sep 22 2011, 03:15 PM
West Wing
post Sep 27 2011, 11:47 AM

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QUOTE(mois @ Sep 26 2011, 03:18 PM)
Since the stock market take a hit, will it even worsen our bird nest price? No sign of recovering yet.
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No Quote yet and there are some trying to buy at Rm230,Rm2600 rojak and some offers at Rm3400 and to sell or not to sell is at your own discretion, but my only advice is

BE PATIENT and never use only the heart............


Like my wife, use BN for some dishes like coconut with BN which include desert like jelly with BN... living like the Emperor like a saying goes, Cannot be an Emperor, at least can eat like one.
West Wing
post Sep 27 2011, 03:01 PM

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QUOTE(mois @ Sep 27 2011, 11:47 AM)
Try wait for another week see how it goes. For your information, my bird house is using the same sound since the beginning. It is more like trial and error. I have tried so called "marvelous sound" that normally cost rm800, it turns out bad.


Added on September 27, 2011, 11:51 am
I will try be patient tongue.gif. But do share with me when u sell. I mean at what price.

Coconut bird nest? What is the recipe? Cook bird nest first then put inside coconut ah?
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BAD NEWS

Now, I have heard news that in Hongkong, there are sellers having tons of Red nests now bleaching the nest into white nests again.....and the public there have lost confidence and direction on how to buy good nest. As long as there are bad guys, we are always in trouble and in difficulties to sell our pure nest at good and reasonable price.

First, they convert dirty nests into Red nests and already make their millions and now, nobody is buying their red nests and having many tons of nests at hand, they are changing it back to white nests by bleaching. How are we the innocent ones going to survive such onslaught by greedy bad guys. If I am taking birdnest, I too will stop taking birdnest temporary until I am confident that I am buying the real thing.
West Wing
post Sep 27 2011, 06:22 PM

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QUOTE(mois @ Sep 27 2011, 03:28 PM)
For real? Do you have official news on that?
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Someone with connection in oversea distribution told me so and I have no reason not to beieve him cos where are all the Red nests in the market going to sell and they cannot just disappear in thin air. They are not going to destroy the nests or just to throw them into dustbin and the only way out to gain back the money is to recycle these nest back to sellable nests.

That's logical if you think it over.




West Wing
post Sep 27 2011, 07:43 PM

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QUOTE(mois @ Sep 27 2011, 06:21 PM)
I want to ask a question. Is that safe to put bird nests inside polystyrene box? Will they turn yellowish or so on? Because i afraid the nests will be damaged if put inside for long term.
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I have put well dry nests into even plastic container for many months and they only change color to light brown and even after many years, you still can use the nests so never worry about being damage but just lower in cash value.

That's why I recommended chiller like cold room which the wholesalers in HK keep their nests and mind you, whole room full will all kind of bird nests to keep them fresh. They pack the nest in clean plastic bag and store them in the chiller room to keep the nests from turning brown and they have done so for years.

Even in natural caves, some nests are harvested after years and still can be eaten and in my BH, sometime you may find 5 or 6 S nest over 6" high and I believe that these are about afew years accumulated nests and they taste better than the newly made nests....and last longer in boiling water.

One word to remind you is never store nest very wet in warm weather and you will end up having greenish fungus and down go your nests into the dustbin to be safe. Anyone know if greenish nests can be eaten or not?

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