Just for discussion:

Everywhere else in the world, people are trying the impossible task of eradicating fruit flies which can be found practically everywhere but here we are trying to produce fruit flies for our swiftlets...and we are paying very expensive for it, too.

Something just don't seem right.


This post has been edited by West Wing: May 5 2011, 03:34 PM

TQ and it's an honor to have afew of such friends like Cergau, TF and not many as most prefer to stay by the side line to see the action only.

As their Advisor ( In name sake only), I have tired in vain to persuade my local swiftlet association to study the guidelines and to seek redress and action before the storm arrive but the Comm. don't share my sentiment on the matter and prefer to wait for the storm to decide whether to build a ship or just to use a umbrella or raincoat ..let it be cos I have given up my one man battle here to save all their A**. If they aren't concerned, how am I alone here to decide their destiny and if I go alone, they will not thank me if everything is OK but if I make a mistake, then, it's not the authorities that will screw my A** but my friends and members @ local Association.

My hope is that it shall be just a rain and no one will get drown cos building one ship then will not save all but a few lucky ones esp. @ town. Sorry if I am getting over conscious about the whole matter as I don't see blue sky and everything nice without our interference. But I am just abide by the feeling and directive of the the local Association BOD and wait out the storm. Other areas, pls. be proactive like Cergau and the rest of the warriors and defend your rights cos your BHs @ town and even agriland may depend on how the 1GP and the Wildlife Acts that will affect you and your future in BH buz.

This post has been edited by West Wing: May 7 2011, 06:49 PM

This time, the harvest is much better than the last as there was this delay due to the weather. Most fellowmen told me of the increase of EBN and that's a very good sign.

Although, part can be harvest now and there are still many birds waiting to fly away so pls. be patient and harvest the rest after the birds fledged. This way, we get our harvest and the birds get to populate and better harvest in the future with more birds returning to breed.

My view on the matter to share. Congratulation on your 3X increment of nests.

Here??? No complain, no complain as birds are getting more by the count of the BN except the break ins seem to be daily events and nobody know what and how to handle the situation.

Any recommendation??????

1. Send the thieves to the Police only to have them release as they now have lawyers, too.
2. They aren't scare of you and infact, there was a case here where the thief told the BH owner that he will come back again to his BH.
3. They have associates that will bail them out of jail within the same day.
4. The amount is chick feed compare to the losses of the owners.

The government must take a serious view on the matter as I have advice the owners to break a leg or hand or throw them down the stairs before reporting to the police. It may seem like taking the Law in to our own hand but what to do if your properties cannot be protected and worst if anyone get kill trying to catch one thief.
( #I just told them to do it as there are no other alternative but I don't have the heart and to bring myself to break a leg or hand)

Remember that you even have to catch them red handed to hand them to the police otherwise, they will be release immediately as there is no evidence of any break in even though they are carry the tools of the trade with them.

So, all Bro, what is the best way to handle such mass B/In......and now, they even do their job during the day time like at 3 to 5 pm like the recent few cases here. So, if you ever notice that large number of birds are cycling above your BH when other BHs around aren't, go and inspect your BHs as there maybe a thief or thieves inside your BHs doing 100% harvesting for you but do remember to bring your friends with you.

Be very careful even during the day.

That's the very reason that I don't want to venture into the agriland unless force to like at the present situation.

At towns, it is already so difficult to enforce safety of our BHs and what about agriland BHs. Unless, we are all going to stay at our Agriland to protect our birds. Coming to the protection of BH @ agriland, a fellow fenced up his BH and use dogs to protect his BH and recently all dogs are found dead, murdered by thieves and how safe will you be if you are staying there.

At least, if there are many BHs around the area, we can employ security guards 24 hours to protect our property@agriland. If intending to build one @ agriland, do like me,,,,,,build one with top security in mind and birds friendly in the second place as it's shall be useless that you build the BH and some else steal the profit and God have mercy on the dead chicks. Build it high and strong, I believe.

I can feel what you feel when your BH was broken into with all fallen chicks esp the still alive ones which you don't know how to save them but Thanks GOD, all mine are still OK. Some of my friends have their BHs broken into esp. those 2S BH in town and those @ agriland. The 2S BH seem to get broken in so often like every few months once.

I will love to use TF electric 15KV neon transformer on the thieves to see them suffer and to pay for their sin. By the way, how is the circuit diagram cos I surely don't want myself to get the shock.

TQ, Tuckfook for the information and I will try this in my coming agriland BH to give it a added security and by the way, did you hear of the latest security metal door for agriland BHs that use special car nut instead of key to lock. Here, one inventive guy came up with the idea of doing so so that the thieves will need special tool to open and since there are so many version of nuts hole shapes, they will no be able to know what type is used.

Someone told me so but I haven't seen one but the idea should be great. Instead of keys, you use spanner. making it so difficult to even burn it out with gas cutter.

Well, no News should be Good News.

Coming to building BHs, my opinion is that do it only @ good location and never do just that you have a piece of vacant land or that that piece of land is cheap as good thing is never cheap and cheap thing is never good.

Provided always if you have alot of cash and don't know where to dump the cash, then by all mean, build one at no bird area and do the waiting game cos the bird may spread to your area in a few years or more. Why I said this as many BHs fail because of wrong location and wrong ways of doing BHs that cause the percentage of successful BHs in BH Buz to be only @ less than 30%. If you do your homework right, then your changes of success will be much better than the figure stated by many experts.

At good location, feed back can be as high as 80% success rate but at others bad location, 90% failure and only 10% boleh tahan sahaja. So, is the case of buying one BH @ Ecopark, and although the area must be good location to start up with but with so many BHs to feed, where to get the birds............

I just went to Nenasi, Pahang to visit a success BH only to know that the owner is building 10 new BHs next his BH for sale and nearly all have been sold after visiting his BH at the location. The asking price is very high but there are always willing buyers after the mentioned visit to the BH and observing the evening swiftlets. Buyers should remember that one BH is supporting a row of 10 new BH building lots and what your changes of getting the birds. Unless you know what you are doing and have the expertise in the buz, your chances is less that 5% I would say.

As always, above is my opinion and only wish to help and express my view on the matter.

Hi,

It's look very good , too good to be true for if it's THE truth, no reason not to invest but maybe there are other matter no telling, my friend cos better safe than be sorry later.

Buy Rm300K sell back Rm430K in 5 years, profit much better than any bank interest. Like this, Got Nests I win and No Nests I also win but need much more details before investing lah. No interest, No legal Fee, No nothing when to get and pls. forward details to me also....................wwoptic@gmail.com

This post has been edited by West Wing: May 24 2011, 06:32 PM

[quote=swiftletasia,May 24 2011, 10:01 PM]
Hi Mr West Wing,

Details will be sent to you via email, do talk and visit us for ensurity and buy back RM 432 K and not RM 430K and correction not RM 300K but RM 298 K .Profit much better then bank is correct as here go the maths, after 5 years and there are more then 200 nest inside, assuming we have buyer for RM 800 per nest ( RM 800 X 200= 160,000) + building cost RM 298,000= RM 458,000 and if they are taking loan then we just pay back the outstanding. By that time our 4 star resort as well as building appreciation already increase as surrounding land appreciation had tripple since 2009. Easy as that. We had alsready do the maths before we offer to sale. We do give ppl loan of 50 % as we are confident the success. And payment will be by progressive payment which are paid to our lawyer as stakeholder. This is semi- govt project and what we are doing here is for more job oportunity for our procesing plants as well as to build up future funds to make this kampung a bird nest attractions center.

Yes win win situation Mr west Wing and i hope this forum are here to bring swiftlet farming to greatest heights as well as to bring unity to all farmers. No nest you win, got nest you also win. We hope everyone can profit like what you had profit from selling off your kemaman swiftlet house and redo a few more swiftlet farm. This is what every member wishes and we hope get your support , advise and technics of how to be as successful as your swiftlet farm.

Do come and visit us as food, lodging and transport provided. If you are from Sibu, it took 2 hours drive to that designations. Using our boat 45 minutes subject to weather.

Mr West Wing, do invest on us as it is fully supported by our sarawak govt as well as this is only 16 units for grab as 4 of them will belong to local community.

Please check mail ya..

Thanks

Hi, Do I know you or met you before?????? You seem to know alot about me and now, I feel so naked lah!!!!hahahaha.
It's OK cos I really have nothing to hide........

As for my figures, it's just a round up as even Rm10K doesn't affect the deal at all but anyway, it sound good but need more information and assurance. By the way, many states are also going big way in this industry as there is certainly great potential in this field provided always if it's done correctly. What's interest me is the buy back policy and no interest with free maintenance and services for 10 years and many others.

If buying back is guaranteed without considering the number of nests in the BH and for a start with 20 BHs only at good location and in the state of Sarawak, why not........

Any free flight ??????

This post has been edited by West Wing: May 25 2011, 01:28 PM

[quote=swiftcurrent,May 26 2011, 12:47 PM]
Booking fee : RM 5,000
Legal fee : waived
Free maintenace : 10 years
Buy back option : 5 years ( RM 432,000)
Lisence : Yes
Cctv online : Yes
Security : Yes

* Each buyer are entitle to 6 time complimentary stay at our resorts.

Please feel free to call or email us for details:

Hp: 010 - 98188 29

Email: swiftletasia@hotmail.com

Thank you for reading

[/quote]

Your offer is worth considering and some of my friends asked me to help them to assess. The concern I have is - what do I own at the end of the day when I have fully paid up - birds or no birds at all.

In the past in Semanunjung, there were many developments whereby Loans were arranged directly with the developer, ie. buyers pay developer the installment direct and not to a financial institution. Many house owners diligently pay the developer over the years till completion of their installments. Then the owners start to chase for their titles only to find out that the main title has been charged to a bank for a loan taken by the developer. Subdivision of the title cannot be done as the bank is holding the main title until and unless the developer has fully pay up the loan. This causes a delay but this is not the problem.

The problem is when the developer defaults on the loan for whatever reasons - eg. insolvency etc. (not saying that your developer would )The bank then lelong off the main title cheap to a happy new landlord and the whole property now belong to the new landlord. The "house owners" refuse to move out when issued eviction or rental payment notice by the new land owner. So every one is in a fix. The "house owner" does not own the house eventhough they have fully paid the instalment and were being chased out. The new landlord has bought himself a property that comes with a bunch of "squatters". This is not a hypothetical scenario but has actually happened and many still on stalemate situation.

I don't mean to pour cold water here but am genuinely interested to know what would I get at the end of the day? a BH that I own and can sell to anyone ?

[/quote]


Yes, must think and double think before investing lah. Many Q's
and Sarawak is a good Swiftlets area but not friendly state lah.

Only if our Rights is assured like buying back value irrespective of nests cos no point talking about the quantity of nests in 5 years
when we still haven't got an egg yet.

Just me and others do have their views

Hi Oneup,

Let me answer your questions to the best of my abilities

1. Since there are already successful BHs near your land, there is no need to do a field test at all as the birds from your neighbor BHs will surely and certainly respond to your DURESS call test. So, you are in a safe area. Do you mean beach by the sea or river cos the difficulties differ alots.
2. I love open roof top as the opening and number of birds cannot be seem clearly and so less temptation for the thieves.
3. The very reason that I mentioned difference near Sea and river is that sea side is very difficult to manage and river side is a breeze with food source so near.
4. Since you are talking about corrosion, I presume our BH must be near sea so design must ensure protection against the sea wind, salt and the corrosion.
5. Often, starting is most difficult and once gaining strength, everything seem so easy..as you have your own birds to help you. When you have nothing, you depend on nearby BHs to populate your BH; just like a beggar and hope that these nearby BHs allow their birds to breed so will your chances of success.
6. In my opinion, success depend on where your BH located and that’s why in some areas, success rate can be as high as 80% BUT others maybe as low as 20%. All depend on locations, human greed and BH settings. We shouldn’t consider shits to be successful but rather the number of nests. Shits will only tell if you do have a change, a good chance or nothing at all; without shit, no bird where got nests.
7. Duress is only used to test out an area but never use it in the operation of BH….it also cause panic to your nearby BHs as well. Your neighbours may not feel kindly to your such action. Don’t use Duress anymore and try using so nice sound to attract the birds to go into your BH.
Hope that I could be of help to you and others may want to add their opinions . Best of Luck to you.

Dear Oneup,

Human Greed= harvesting before eggs are laid or throwing away eggs. with these method, successful owners can harvest many times more in a year and get better price for whiter nests. I have heard of a friend, normally getting Rm300K a year but now getting Rm600K a year so isn't this greed!!! without considering the live of the birds' offspring....and the newbizs that depend on his new fledged birds to populate their BHs. Total harvesting BHs will see profit now but 5 years later, will experience a reduction of nests somewhere around 20% instead of an increment of at least double the number of nests.

With human greed, newbizs will find difficulties in securing fledged birds as there are none and old birds don't migrate easily..... I always encourage newbizs to venture into the trade but with caution as these days aren't the same as before as then, we allow the birds to breed and we are all birds loving people unlike some new rich men which enter the buz for the fast cash return.

So, when your BH become successful, do share the opportunity of God's wealth with others cos without others sharing their fortune with you, you would not be successful or at least take 10 years instead of 5 years.

That's have been my way of doing BH before and still maintain even thought I may be getting lower price and lesser KG of nest per year compare to those similar BHs but my future will be brighter and I am helping the birds, my fellow newbizs and the country to prosper together.....just sold my nest for Rm4500 per KG but D above got Rm4800 but what Rm300 per KG won't make me live longer....and my old car still OK.

This post has been edited by West Wing: May 28 2011, 12:22 PM

[quote=oneup,May 28 2011, 12:59 PM]
haha very nice points indeed. I like you already.

Heard that alot of BH owners are practicing force harvest, saying that it will boost population by atleast 25%. However this method is only effective after the BH is populated to a certain level. True or not, i am not sure, but it does give raise to the issue of ethic and animal abuse.


Dear Oneup,

Once you know me better, you will see I am really a likeable person. HA HA

Force Harvesting never boost increment of nests but only apparently immediately much more birds circling over the BH because of the smell of broken eggs and baby chicks cried. These are not your birds and never will be as old birds are faithful to the BH and always returning back HOME. What we are targetingnew fledged birds. are the How and where to get increment if you have already killed off all the future yound birds. This is common sense. Harvesting after fledgling will certainly see a return of some birds but the number of returning birds will greatly increase when your BH is over 1000 nests....

Some common sense like if you spend all your money and where can you expect interest unless you save the money in the Bank and that's also common sense.

Rich men paying millions to buy up expensive BH with thousands of nests to make fast profit but these more than 10K nests BHs can afford of no increment cos their BHs are almost full with nests.

Oyes, I am doing a study on the number of BHs in Malaysia and I hope readers can give me information on the estimated BH in each states as we really don't have the information. PM me or just email me @ wwoptic@gmail.com. Appreciated and Thanks in advance.

---

Added on May 29, 2011, 6:13 pm[quote=aeiou228,May 28 2011, 12:31 PM]
Dear WW,

Can you share in this forum how many types of BN grades, cleanliness, shapes, size and current price tiers for house nests in the west malaysia east coast market ?

Thank you.

[/quote]


Dear Bro,

Types and prices will vary with time and place and if demand exceed supply, then it shall be sellers advantage.
Last week, the price is 464137,, yesterday 454036 and also depend on the buyer and its always being the buyers market and only hope that the buyers fight for the nests, then we can experience better price.

If only we the producers don't sell low, we can and will be able to get better price for our nests but alas, this is easier said than done as many will sell even if prices drop to Rm2000 per Kilo.

Grading now maybe starting with Super A, A, B and C but to different buyers, these may also mean differently because of the country that they sell to like China, Indonesia and Vietnam, they do have different requirements and prices for these products. Some don't mind a little brownish but must be super large and will give you good price but others think differently and only interested in white and also must be less feathers causing many sellers resorting to cheating by removing dirt and shit stain before selling. Now, they even can correct round cup to half cup for half cup fetch higher. price.

End now as I can talk for days on this subject itself...

This post has been edited by West Wing: May 29 2011, 06:20 PM

A Word of advice for the harvesting season as many BH swiftlets have fledged and owners are harvesting alot of nests......... buyers are coming for a cheap kill and so try to maintain the price or otherwise, just like share market, dropping is much faster than climbing up and once down, take much longer time to climb up. Remember that once, EBN dropped to less than Rm2K per K..

Beware.

What's other forum friends say? As for me, it's all depend on the situation and if wind and sun can cause problem, then, a side entrance partition is better and in dark area big room, middle entrance is better; giving better access to the bird to fly in or out ( must think big cos in near future, your room may have thousand birds trying to fly out). Normally, I would make a entrance door nearer to the side to be on the safe side but never too near to give some maneuver room for the new bird to fly out more easier.

To me, there isn't a fast and hard rule on doing BH and all depend on the area, situation and conditions of the BH. Remember where and how is also an importance matter, right??

Be there to see will be the best way to solve bird's problem and no one stone kills all. As for newbizs, see and think from the view of the birds and you will never go wrong too far. Be like a swiftlet and learn.

One reader asked again a old question," Which is the best DK, Open roof or window type?

All can work but it ready depend on where you are and what you need to take precaution for? Infact, if your really look at all the designs in details, they are all really basically the same if you get my breeze.

At town, you find more OR success BHs as there are more of these and they should be in town cos by doing others, you may end up having your BH destroyed because of too many complains from your neighbours. Why create or rather bring trouble for yourself.

At Agriland, more people choose the DK for security and natural elements factors. It's easier to manage than others types @ agiland.

OW type is the mother of all entrance as it the most direct approach to the bird and it's the cheapest form of entrance but it's rather the most difficult to make the BH conditions suitable for the birds. With all the natural forces against you and with the predators seem impossible with this method, many forgo it.

What say you, my friends?

Bro, Flight path is very important

but then, doing an entrance along and facing the flight path is definately the best and all agree to this, right?

Here, the Q is what type of entrance is the best, bro? Any view ?

Dear Friend,

This isn't a hobby; a serious investment for the future esp. retirement but if you can afford to make a habby, that will be nice. Going there every sunset and observe the birds cycling and going into the BH. It's really so enjoyable and I believe it's good for health like looking at green or fishes cos it relax the body and mind.

Good suggestion, and the birds will thank you for it as just leaving the bld. to the birds and in years to come, you shall have great great grand parent to great great grand swiftlets. You shall see birdnests that you never see before, maybe 10 layers nests and coming to birds matter, I wish to let newbizs know that in most successful BHs, during proper harvesting, you shall see so many birds at one location like you saw in the adv. for hormone or perfume. As we light up the floor, the about to fledged birds will be scared and fly to the darker area of the floor and if I am to take a picture, my solution will definitely sell like hot cake with hundred of young birds at the end of the floor. I did tried to take picture to share with my handphone even lately, Apple 4, all pictures don't come out good.

Remember, not that smell isn't important but we do get similar effect during harvesting nests so pls. no cursing for sellers.

Oyes, flying path is like if you are catching fishes and where to you place your net and it is similar to that. If your BH isn't in the path of the swiftlets, the entrance should be facing the path of the swiftlets and some swiftlets may come to examine your BH after hearing your call of love ( swiftlets sound with tweeters). Got it??

There are basically 2 serious errors in some failed BHs.

1. Too difficult for the young birds to enter or out.
2. Too big an opening that too much disturbance like wind and light.

My comment on the topic on Swiftltets management.