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Philosophy Free market is not good for world economy., So what's good?

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SUSmylife4nerzhul
post May 21 2010, 03:49 PM

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it doesn't matter what kind of economy system the world has, as long as people act like assholes toward each other, any kind of economy is flawed.

if i were a supreme leader of the world, i'd put less focus on economy and tech advancement and more focus on teaching everyone how not to be dicks first.
SUSmylife4nerzhul
post May 22 2010, 12:52 AM

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QUOTE(robertngo @ May 21 2010, 04:49 PM)
you cannot stop people for being an d***, you just need regulation to made sure they dont pull some d*** move to screw everyone for their own gain.
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how do you regulate 6 billion people?

in our capitalistic world, the top 10% of the world population holds 85% of the world's wealth. the top 2% holds 50%.

this means that if the world population is 100 people, and the total wealth of the world is 100 units, the top 10 people have 8.5 units per head, while the rest of the 90 people of the world only have 0.16 units per head. The top 10% people has 53 times more wealth than the rest of the world.

and obviously none of them deserve most of their wealth.

Bill Gates and Warren Buffett are perhaps the two richest men alive. Can you tell me what exactly it is that they do everyday that deserves them +USD40 billion in their banks, which is probably a million times more money than you and i will ever see in our lives? Does this mean that they are working a million times harder than you and me?

This post has been edited by mylife4nerzhul: May 22 2010, 01:03 AM
SUSmylife4nerzhul
post May 22 2010, 04:35 PM

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QUOTE(Beastboy @ May 22 2010, 09:40 AM)
Hi kitteh, the world's billionaires aren't working a million times more than you & I. They're just many times smarter, and braver. They use financial leverages to do heavy lifting in the same way as you'd use a pulley to lift something 100 times heavier than you. Their spend their time searching for these leverages while we work for hourly wages.

We can only say they don't deserve their wealth if they cheated others in the process. In a free market, its willing buyer willing seller. People allow themselves to be used as leverage like M'sia Boleh's infamous Ali Baba system, for a fee of course. Both sides take a risk. Maybe it isn't fair but come to think of it, is anything really fair in the world?
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So you're saying it's morally okay for the super wealthy people to deserve all their money not by contributing towards society by physically working like how it's supposed to be in the first place, but by outsmarting everyone into giving them more money? And getting returns a hundred fold compared to other people who actually physically work day by day in blood and sweat?

And difference between me using a pulley to lift heavy objects and an tradesman who overcharges his product 500% more than it's worth and underpays his workers is that one involves manipulation of machinery, while the other involves manipulation of HUMAN BEINGS.

This post has been edited by mylife4nerzhul: May 22 2010, 04:41 PM
SUSmylife4nerzhul
post May 22 2010, 09:35 PM

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QUOTE(Beastboy @ May 22 2010, 07:31 PM)
Dude, don't get me wrong. I know where you're coming from and when you put it that way, yes it sound immoral.

BUT, firstly do re-examine again if someone like Bill Gates really contributed nothing to society. Try and google up "Bill Gates charity" and see what you get. Gates and many other billionaires like him provide one important function: they provide employment and with it, salaries, benefits, taxes, and other things that ripple down to your pocket and mine. If you removed Gates & others like him, not only you won't have Windows. Tens of thousands of people who work for Microsoft will be out of work. There will be hardship for their dependents, and the merchants that provide to them, and their dependents, merchants who sell computers on Windows and so on and so forth.

So how do you propose people like Gates be compensated? Pay him $5 an hour?
So Bill Gates set up a charity foundation and suddenly it's all okay? So you're saying if i rob $1 million from a bank and give half of it to charity then it'd be okay? He can act philanthropic all he wants, but stealing is stealing.

Compensating Gates? It's HIM who should compensate everyone else, since in the early days, Microsoft bullied and drove other competitors out of business which resulted in the Windows monopoly that you see today.

QUOTE(Beastboy @ May 22 2010, 07:31 PM)
If the people who provide us employment are outsmarting us, then could you give an example of how we could get jobs and not be outsmarted?
I'm not saying that all employers are taking advantage of their employees. What I'm saying is that the employer is morally responsible in paying their employees their due, and not just giving only the top executives RM50,000 bonuses a year while their employee wages remain stagnant or even dropping.

QUOTE(Beastboy @ May 22 2010, 07:31 PM)
And I agree, the pulley system analogy and your example of overcharging is different. Its apples and oranges lah, cannot be compared. Here's how I can do a financial pulley. I use my salary, say $10, to take out a bank loan of $50,000 for a business. I use that $50k to pay a downpayment for goods worth $100,000. So from $10k on paper, I get goods worth ten times the value. That is how I leverage. Its willing buyer willing lender/seller all the way, everything's transparent, no one's forced.
If by leveraging you mean setting up a business with a loan, then there is nothing wrong with that. As long as you pay the bank, your tax collectors, your workers, and everyone else their rightful dues, there is nothing wrong. It's when you start overpaying yourself and start underpaying others and overcharging your services when things start to go wrong. Unfortunately that's is the norm among employers and corporations these days.

No one's forced? You speak as if the willing buyer/willing seller system is flawless and incorruptible. Tell me, what OS are you using right now? Windows? Are you using windows because it's a superior operating system? Or because it's the only OS that supports all your favorite programs, which is the direct result of Windows monopoly? I bet it's the latter. It doesn't seem like a choice now is it?

Back in my college days, there was a mamak restaurant nearby who overcharges their food. The thing is they are the only mamak restaurant within that area, so it's either travel 8 km away to eat or pay RM6.00 for just fried chicken and rice. Now it doesn't seem like a choice now is it?

SUSmylife4nerzhul
post May 23 2010, 12:10 AM

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QUOTE(dr2k3 @ May 22 2010, 11:59 PM)
actually i m responding to mylife4nerzhul $40billion in bank
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QUOTE(Monstar @ May 22 2010, 11:42 PM)
Like I say, I am only using USD40b in the bank to illustrate a point. That was not the crux of my previous post. How does having USD40b in the bank or networth make any difference to the spirit of original post you quoted?
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