Folks, I have been reading all your comments and let me give my point of view which is more neutral and unbiased.

I have been a CPA since 2000 and CA since 2008 and I have worked in Aust from 2004 to 2009.

On CA, the exam is more difficult & rigorous. The ICAA graduates are well known for their technical excellency, highly competent and skilled. They are always the 'hunting' targets by the employers.

On CPA, it's the other opposite. It has become worse from bad. The comment given by Grimm is very true and cannot be taken lightly. Many non accounting/finance graduates can gain the CPA Aus status easily. This is due to the intense commercialization effort to pass as many candidates as possible. This has greatly jeopardised the credibility of the CPA graduates and this problem has already existed for more than 10 years in Aust.

During my last 5 working years in Aust, most employers already "written off" the CPAs & only hire the CAs. As a result most CPAs in order to make themselves more marketable and competitive, they have to enrol for the CA exam. You can see that in their CV, they will put an additional line under the Qualification Section "Currently pursuing CA exam", without which it will make them being unattractive to the potential employers.

I can see this trend is already happening in M'sia eventhough not as bad as in Aust and the Big 4 in Msia still taking in CPA grad as long as it's recognised by MIA. However nobody knows what is going to happen to CPAs in the next 5-6 years in Msia, it could face the same situation in Aust or it might take longer to happen. Until it happens, it remains everyone's guess.

Surely if you're aiming to progress higher in your career, don't take CPA. The standard of the CPA is ridiculously low & you will loose out completely to those ACCAs.
Be bold & brave enough to take the real & tough professional exam like ACCA, ICAEW, ICAA, MICPA etc. In the end of the day, the reward is in your hand if you pass the exam.

For CPA, no doubt it's a lot easier but in the end you will find that the whole program is deficient in every area & you're considered as 2nd grade if compared to ACCA, ICAEW or ICAA.

Keelim, let me explain but please don't get offended. Only a complete fool will trade any prof qualification they have for CPA (Aus)....bcoz you think that it will increase your chances to work in Aust? I am a member of both CPA & ICAA and I have worked in 2 different Big 4 in Sydney for almost 6 years. For any accounting jobs in Aust regardless big or small companies or industries, only ICAA is preferred. For them it makes no difference whether a person has CPA or not because any Tom, d*** or Harry has one and it's completely valueless.

However I don't say that CPA is totally ignored. For those lower position like accounts clerk, account assistant or bookeeper, it's suitable for CPA grads. All these are within the context of the employment market in Aust.

In M'sia, it's a different scenario as long as it's recognised by MIA. So in Aust, CPA is something like LCCI in M'sia.

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Added on October 1, 2010, 8:36 pmThe low standard of the CPA in Aust has nothing to do with international students or immigrants. It's bcoz of the CPA exam that is not up the mark. As an Aust degree holder, students have 2 options - CPA (Aus) or ICAA. Unfortunately most M'sian or S'porean students take the easy way out by taking CPA instead of ICAA. It's ok if they choose to practice in M'sia or S'pore but if they choose to work in Aust, doing CPA is a complete waste of money & time. Sad to say many M'sian or S'porean students don't realise it until they try to seek employment in Aust.

In China, since they enjoy robust economic growth, any accountants regardless of which bodies they belong are highly respected & look up upon.

Beside Tony Fernandes, they're also other high profile personalities who're ACCA member. The CEO or Chairman of TNB, CEO of Telekom - can't remember their names. And many others.

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Added on October 1, 2010, 8:37 pmBtw, who's TS?

This post has been edited by White Knight: Oct 1 2010, 08:37 PM

I noted your comment that the same issue is being discussed in the Facebook. Ya, I went and searched through the Google and found that there're plenty of discussions concerning this issue. Thanks for highlightning it.

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Added on October 3, 2010, 6:57 pmOne issue worth noting from other discussions in the Facebook is that why most of the Audit Committee's (AC) Chairman in the PLCs are either ACCA/MICPA/ICAEW/ICAA etc members and NONE are CPA (Aus) members...not even satu ekor! terrible ah! aiyooo!. Please let me know if you can find 1 AC's chairman who's a pure CPA (Aus) member.

Why is it so? It comes back to the same issue that we're discussing. CPA (Aus) members are known for their incompetency & lack of knowledge particularly technical skill due to the low quality of the CPA Program to the extent that the PLC's Board of Directors have no confidence at all to appoint a CPA to chair the AC - AGREE !!

OR maybe all the CPA (Aus) members have the same philosophy - Don't accept the AC Chairman position because it against the ethical guidelines issued by CPA - silly !!

If I still can recall, there was a joke told by a Fellow CPA - "Passing the CPA is easier than eating kacang putih. That mamak selling roti canai also a CPA holder". Please don't blame me, this joke was told to me by a FCPA (Aus).



This post has been edited by White Knight: Oct 3 2010, 06:57 PM

There's a MRA signed between MICPA & ICAA. Check thru their website, it will give you more info.

Your comments show that you're trying to cure your broken heart.

Can you name me any MNCs' CFOs who's not an ICAEW/ACCA member?
I can conclude that tonnes of CFOs are ICAEW/ACCA members. You don't believe?...spend some time do some studies or research since you've plenty of times searching thru the Google for the same discussion topic in Facebook.

In Aust, obviously all the top finance personnel are ICAA....mana ada CPAs. Let me know if you can find one.

In M'sia, can you name me ONE, ONLY ONE MNC's CFO who's a CPA (Aus)?....it will take you ages to find because there're none of them.

However, if you go to the CPA (Aus) website very frequently, they have publicised so greatly and extensively 2 CPA members about their accomplishments. Want to know why? This is the first time in the 100 years history of CPA (Aus), they have finally managed to produce only 2 capable persons...ONLY 2 IN 100 years history of CPA!...what a pity & shame!

Other prof bodies have produced tonnes or thousands of them very regularly. For CPA....ONLY 2 IN 100 YEARS!...

I have called up my FCPA (Aus) buddy earlier & he 'cracked' another joke:
He said that in "Olympic Games, US have already produced tonnes of gold medalist & it's very normal for them. If Malaysia manage to produce their first ever Olympic gold medalist, there will be huge publication in the Malaysian media & there will be a month long celebration. In conclusion, for CPA (Aus) to produce top finance personnel is the same as Malaysia winning their 1st ever Olympic gold medal."

This can be joke of the year for all accountants.

Then can you let me know the CPAs who sits on the AC? I have been following up on this development for the past couple of years & I have done enough research, even more thorough than a Phd research. Even if there's a CPA sitting on the AC, it's only less than 1% which is close to 0%. It's proven that CPA is inferior & its members are incompetent.

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Added on October 6, 2010, 4:41 pmYou want the list of AC Chairmans who're members of ACCA/ICAEW/MICPA? I can quote few examples, look at Maybank, Genting, Berjaya, Tenaga Nasional, Telekom etc etc. Additional info, both CEOs of TNB & Telekom are ACCA. If you want all the PLCs, I need to write 20 over pages in this thread.
Now I throw back the same question to you. Can you name me the CPAs who sits in the AC? You can spend years looking for it but I can guarantee that you can hardly find one or there's none at all.

This post has been edited by White Knight: Oct 6 2010, 04:41 PM

Since you feel that using the AC Chair is not a proper yardstick, then we use another context ; if you're in Aust employment long enough, you will come to know that 65%-70% of CPA Graduates further undertake the CA exam. Want to know why? It's because CPA is not preferred by employers. 65%-70%...it's a lot man! The remaining 30% are too frustrated that CPA is not accepted in the Aust employment market & eventually they go into another career line eg marketing.
In M'sia, CPAs are very lucky because it's still recognised by MIA.

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Added on October 6, 2010, 4:52 pmEverybody knows CPA is recognised by MIA but it does not mean that it's of high quality & credibility. US CPA is known for its high standard & yet not recognised by MIA but recognised by ICPA S'pore. How do you explain it?
You're telling me that every CPAs in M'sia chooses not to become AC Chairman? Sounds silly. You mean all of them? can you prove it with evidences?

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Added on October 6, 2010, 4:57 pmIf you've done enough research, number of MIA members broken down according to their prof bodies (all % in approx) - CPA (Aus) is 42%, ACCA is 40%, both MICPA & ICAEW combined only have 15%.
So, statistic already proved it, with only combination of 15% MICPA/ICAEW members can sit on the AC whilst CPA (Aus) with 42%, not even 1% is capable enough to sit on the AC.

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Added on October 6, 2010, 5:00 pmI have already proved it with figures & facts, if you still don't get it, I can't help you. If you feel that my analysis is being concluded pre-maturely, there're plenty of evidences out there for you to explore. It's either you cannot accept the truth or you're too ignorant of what's happening in the real world.

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Added on October 6, 2010, 5:05 pmThere're even more CPAs from the baby boomers generation (born between 1946 & early 60s) if you know your facts very well. MICPA was only formed in 1958 & there are already tonnes of CPAs from the 60s until now. Todate there're only 4000 MICPA members & mostly from generation X. You cannot deny that CPA is more than 100 years old & they totally outnumbered the MICPA and yet with such a small number, MICPA totally 'outplayed' CPA in terms of recognition & reputation.
You shld do more thorough homework & get your facts & figures right.

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Added on October 6, 2010, 5:09 pmIf you talk in terms of who's the best, then ACCA, ICAEW & MICPA shld compete amongst themselves & see who comes out top.
If you talk in terms of who has the lowest quality, CPA (Aus) is "undisputed champion"...coz no prof bodies are lower than them.
You're not willing to accept the truth & is it how you carry yourself at work place?

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Added on October 6, 2010, 5:10 pmIf you talk in terms of who's the best, then ACCA, ICAEW & MICPA shld compete amongst themselves & see who comes out top.
If you talk in terms of who has the lowest quality, CPA (Aus) is "undisputed champion"...coz no prof bodies are lower than them.
You're not willing to accept the truth & is it how you carry yourself at work place?

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Added on October 6, 2010, 5:18 pmI agree, there're a lot of unqualified accountants who can perform the work as good as a qualified person or even better. These group of people are those who couldn't pass the ACCA, ICAEW or MICPA exam & subsequently they threw in the towel & gave up. Burt when comes to performance, they're marvellously good, it's bcoz they had gained the knowledge & built up a strong foundation when they did their ACCA/CIMA/ICAEW or MICPA exam. I have met up quite a lot of them.
For those who passed the CPA (Aus), yes they're the so called qualified accountants but they know nothing, not even the simple basic stuff...passing CPA is nothing to be proud of. The entire CPA Program really tak boleh pakai.

James, why don't you utilise your spare time do a research on 2 areas & share your findings with everyone:-
a) why most PLCs' BOD do not appoint a CPA (Aus) to sit in the AC? and
2) why CPA is not preferred by employers in Aust?



This post has been edited by White Knight: Oct 6 2010, 05:18 PM

Check all the pass journals or bulletins.

Seantang, until now it's either you still don't understand or you refuse to accept the truth. I leave it to you.
You want sources? I have already said you can check thru all the past accountancy journals or bulletins, plenty of them & available at the public libraries. Additionally there're various prof bodies' websites or other accountancy websites, plenty of info for you to analyse.
Btw, as requested by Def, where's the Fortune 50 link? Please don't keep us waiting....

On posting the comments on Richard Petty's blog, let me explain. As the President or past president of any organisation or prof bodies, he or she would never give a bad or 'bitter' opinion concerning their own body eventhough in reality it's really really bad. The president always has the obligation to protect the body no matter how bad the situation is. Do you think the CPA President will reveal the truth in his blog by telling everyone that CPA is inferior, no value or rubbish? I don't think so, no matter how he will always try to say something sweet & nice in the blog for public review despite the fact that it's really really bad. So in conclusion, the President's view is always bias & doesn't tell the real picture.

If you read thru again Def's earlier post, in the CPA's AGM, most members voiced their unhappiness regarding the quality & standard of CPA. As aware, AGM is the most appropriate platform for members to raise their concern but unfortunately all fell into deaf ears.

One good example, look at the current Commonwealth Games (CG) in New Delhi, India. This CG is full of problems: stadium collaspes, outbreak of dengue fever, unfinished construction works, terrorist threat, dirty accomodation villages, stadiums/arenas less than 1/4 full of audiences etc etc. Yet the Chief Organiser says that this CG is the most successful games in history....what a rubbish statement. The whole world knows that this CG is the worst in history, just look at all the unresolved problems.
The same concept will apply if someone asks the CPA President to give a comment in his blog regarding the quality of CPA Program. He will give a rubbish statement.

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Added on October 9, 2010, 7:41 pmMy advise to all fresh aust accounting graduates:-

Before I start, I just need to stress again, I am member of both CPA (Aus) & ICAA.

Choosing between which prof exam to take (CPA Aus or ICAA) is a serious matter. It will decide your career path and how successful & marketability you are. If you decide to choose the easier & MCQ based option (CPA), you're robbing yourself of a successful accountancy career. If you choose the tough & difficult option (ICAA) you're on your way towards a flourish & successful career. Def, Starbucki, Violin & me have made it loud & clear and this is the most we can do to help & explain to you.

Unfortunately, Seantang & his 'allies' are trying to ruin it and I don't understand why they want to mislead all the fresh graduates.

This is your career & the choice is in your hand to decide...choose wisely.


This post has been edited by White Knight: Oct 9 2010, 07:41 PM

Seantang,
Firstly I feel sorry for you because despite my lenghty explanation, you still refuse to accept the truth & torturing yourself in this thread. Other CPA supporters have quite down because now they realise that CPA is valueless.

Seantang, this discussion topic is not about you or me or other forumers in this thread to gain glory. This discussion is more for those fresh aust accounting grad who're entering the prof world who has to decide between CPA or ICAA....it's a 'do or die' mission for them. If they step into the wrong 'borderline' (CPA), they will be forever stay stagnant in their career & cannot move up the career ladder or not accepted by large organisations. Then it will be too late for them to realise that only ICAA can guarantee a successful career.

You can hate & hold the grudge against me or other fellow forumers like Def, Starbucki, Violin etc etc but please think about those fresh grad who're undecided between CPA or ICAA. Please don't let them fall into the aggresive advertisement 'trap' by CPA, it will damage their future career by taking the easy option now.

You still can continue with all your so called 'high profile' praising comments about CPA....nobody stops you but it will lead a naive & innocent fresh grad into a damaging career if they believe every words you said.

Seantang, my wild guess, you could be failing in your career & not able to compete with those who hold a chartered accounting qualification. This is not your fault, the finger should be pointing to the CPA (Aus) qualification that you're holding. Your anger and frustration led you to the debate in this thread & you try to console yourself by glorifying the CPA.

The CPA (Aus) fails all their graduates, not only you. You made the mistake by choosing the easy option, CPA...it's ok, everybody does make mistake. Do you want those fresh uni grads to make the same mistake as you by taking CPA so that they are in the same boat as you?

Seantang, as a friend or rival or bitter rival, anything you name it, it's still never too late for you to take up a chartered accounting qualification or MICPA if you want to compete succesfully with those ACCA/ICAEW/ICAA/MICPA holders. Again it's not your fault that CPA (Aus) is of such a low quality & standard & fails all its members.

Other aust uni fresh grad in this thread, please take my point seriously....choosing between CPA or ICAA is the determination of where you're heading....either a fail or success in your future career. Choose wisely.

Gloomberg, eh..let me explain and I don't intent to insult your cousin who's a CPA. We all know the Big 4 in M'sia take in all prof grad + local acc grad as long as it's recognised by MIA. We also know those who're holding managerial position + partners in Big 4 are from various prof bodies. The question is how many % of them are CPA Aus? Generally there's less than 5%. The bullk of them are MICPA or ACCA/ICAEW.

I also stated in my last few post, CPA only produce 2 capable persons in its 100 years history....1 guy who's the FD at Disney & 1 lady who's a CFO at Adidas...this is an isolated case for CPA. The bulk of CPAs are struggling in workplace. Generally, they don't need an accountant to sell Disney's mickey mouse and donald duck toys or Adidas shoes to any soccer fan...a person with only a Business degree can also fill that position and do a good job as well. Look at those high end industries like tele-comunication, energy, oil & gas, media, airlines etc, NONE of their top finance people are CPAs.

I know a lady partner in EY M'sia who's a CPA & also former MIA Council member (not to mention the name). She doesn't even know a simple double entry...her double entry is totally screw up.
A new M'sian migrant just joined my firm in Aust couple of months ago. She's a CPA and since the Aust Big 4 don't recognise CPA, she's required to do the ICAA exam and she's only given an intermediate position eventhough her last position was an Audit Manager at EY in KL. Guess what?...as an Audit Manager she doesn't even know the basic consolidated accounts stuff like the treatment of minority interest, unrealised profits, pre/post acquisition profits etc etc. She knows nothing at all about consolidation. I am not surprised because this is a very typical CPA Aus products. Everytime she expresses her frustration not able to cope with the difficulty of the ICAA and she's struggling like mad with her studies. She finally admitted that CPA is nothing and totally rubbish, CA is the real stuff.

A current colleague of mine who's used to work in KPMG KL, told me that a CPA Senior Audit Manager there who's technically very weak & knows nothing. She depends entirely on her subordinates who're MICPA or ACCA to do the work. If her subordinates are not around, she will panick like hell when she meets up with the partner for assignment discussion. In other words, she's hiding behind the shield of her subordinates because she's so incompetent & technically weak. This is also another typical product of CPA.

So given all the weaknesses, they still can climb to become managers or partners, why? This is because they're good in their interpersonal skills (good in sweet talking). My colleague told me as long as they can 'bodek' or 'ampu' the partners, they can climb very fast regardless whether they are good or not. Another tactic is to show you're hardworking & fully committed to your job even if you're not good in your work. Discrimination, favouritism and politicking bound to happen in M'sia Big 4.

It's a different situation in Aust, to climb up a person must be technically sound, highly competent and skillful....whether a person is hardworking or lazy is not an issue.

Poor English command and writing skill happens to everybody whether you're CPA Aus, ACCA, ICAA, CIMA, ICAEW or MICPA and regardless whether you are local grad, Aust, Uk, Canada or US grad. A person's upbringing and self initiative plays a vital role of how good their English command is.

All prof accountancy bodies that carry the Chartered title (ICAEW, CIMA, ICAA, ACCA, CICA, NZICA & others) have to set their exam at a very high standard & difficulty to preserve the Chartered status given by the Royal Queen of England.

The same also applies to US CPA & MICPA in order for them to preserve the 'Pubic' status.

In order to live up to your reputation as 'Fair Comments', you should sit for another Chartered body exam & compare it with CPA Aus. You will see there's a vast difference, it's like comparing the sky (Chartered) and land (CPA).

I am a M'sian migrant in Aust and there're are not many ACCAs around but there're plentiful of CPAs Msian migrants. I always take the opportunity to have fellowship with my countrymen during the during the Social Networking function organised by CPA. I can tell you 100% of them are currently undertaking the CA exam because no employers want to recognise CPA. Everyone has the same conclusion, CA exam is tough & rigorous & most of them are struggling and failed repeatedly for the same CA module. CPA exam is like peanut and all of them completed all the 6 CPA segments in just 1 or one and a half year without failing. However I don't know many high distinctions, distinctions, credit or pass they scored.

I can share from my past experience, I completed the 5 CPA segments (under old syllabus) in just 2 exam sittings and I obtained 3 distinctions & 2 credits. But I struggled like hell in my ICAA exam before I finally got thru all the 5 modules....honestly passing a Chartered exam (ICAA, ICAEW, ACCA, CICA etc) is like building your own space shuttle & fly to the moon. On the other hand passing the CPA Aust exam is like sitting down fishing by the lake side, relaxing and enjoying the beautiful scenery.

Since u plan to come to Aust, take ICAA.

ICAA is in equal rank with ICAEW & ACCA in M'sia. However in Aust, employers only look at ICAA & not others.

Maybe she's not an ACCA grad as what she claimed....bluffed her way thru the interview process. The company did the right thing, fired her.

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Added on December 31, 2010, 5:09 pmYou must know the difference between the 2 aust qualifications: CPA (Aus) and ICAA.

CPA (Aus)
- It's grad are called Certified Practising Accountant and NOT Chartered Accountant as what you claimed
- Exam is MCQ based and extremely easy to pass. Even a non accounting grad or a person without any accounting/finance knowledge can pass it easily.
- Very commercialised and anyone who's interested can become member easily.
- NO NEED to be full time employed whether in Aust or M'sia.
- NOT recognised by the Big 4/MNCs/listed companies or even small companies in Aust.
- In Aust, CPA grad only allowed to hold those low ranking position such as bookeeper or accounts clerk.
- However in M'sia, it's still recognised by MIA but based on past trends, most employers in M'sia have already ignored CPA (Aus) qualification.
- CPA (Aus) grad are known for their incompetencies, lack of knowledge & skills, technically weak and don't even know the basic simple accounting stuff.
- It's qualification is inferior and a laughing stock in the job market.
- salary is limited & not able to command higher pay.

ICAA
- It's grad are called Chartered Accountant and highly prestigous.
- Exam is extremely difficult and set at a very high standard.
- Very focused and produce all rounder accountants who're highly competent, skillful & knowledgeable. NOT easy to become an ICAA member.
- MUST be employed full time whether in Aust or Msia.
- Highly recognised internationally by the Big 4/MNCs/listed companies.
- Most of the high or senior ranking officers in the aust companies are member of ICAA.
- ICAA grad are highly demanded by the employers in Msia as they're in equal standard with ICAEW/ACCA.
- ICAA grad are known internationally for their superiority in terms of competencies, skills, knowledge, technical and expertise.
- It's qualification is superior and highly respected in the job market.
- Can command 6 figures annual salary whether in Msia or Aust.



This post has been edited by White Knight: Dec 31 2010, 05:09 PM

Well, ok...she's indeed an ACCA grad. Then she doesn't deserve to be given membership in the future if she doesn't take the initiative to improve herself. As I said the company did the right thing, fired her.

NZICA is recognised by MIA as equivalent to ICAA, CICA & other UK chartered bodies.

The superiority & high quality of an exam body is measured by the bodies having been granted the Royal Charter or have the exclusive right to use the 'Public' designatory letter and their exams are based on case studies that reflects the real life scenarios.

Under the MIA recognition list, CPA (Aus) is the only body that has NO Royal Charter and has NO rights to use the 'Public' designation and its exam is purely based on the straight forward MCQs. Easy MCQs...is it what we call a professional exam?

No doubt for years, CPA (Aus) is always considered as inferior and low standard.