depends...
as a toss, MMM is so easy to counter...

1. sentry heavy army with good FF to split the MMMs and then GS
2. collosus based with sentry's FF
3. DTs -> HTs transition

i find myself going to the 3rd one pretty often lol...

if u are going MMM, u dun jz stay back and go up to 150 food count...
u gotta do a timely push with steampack up...
if u wait, u are gonna get rolled so easily especially with toss's great CC (MMM is overrated)...
it gets even funnier when the zerg go infestors and /lol ur MMMballs...

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Added on May 10, 2010, 3:22 pmMMM = MarineMarauderMedivecs

protoss's long range -> collosus with thermal lance upgrade = 9 range awesomeness...
backed with sentries, it would fry any MMMs before the MMM can even touch them lol...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: May 10 2010, 03:22 PM

what is toss great CC ?

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Added on May 10, 2010, 3:24 pmooh. thanks for the protoss long range and MMM explaination.

so what is the colluss with thermal lance weakness oh?

This post has been edited by Deimos Tel`Arin: May 10 2010, 03:24 PM

so much win ler LOL

what is touhou clone? O_O

and ive already laid it out, minus the sentry part

for sentries, if you know opponent is goin for em, you need to turtle until you get medivacs. if he block you/seperate you, MED-EVACCCCCCCUAAATTEEEE lololololololololol

or. micro ur marauders, takes about 7-8 to 1-2 shot a sentry. no big deal. if you stim pack, takes less than a second too.

dark templars? oh please. comsat/scv turret proxies LOL (yes, ive faced a few toss funny enuf to DT me. i only do MULE the first 2-4 times, then rest all for comsat cuz im dead lazy to scout, and in this case, LOL DT BALL BUSTING. 1 comsat only the dt just EVAPORATE from instant concentrated FAIYAH. and when im attacking, i bring 1-2 svc to proxy turret in case i dont have enuf comsat. (lazy to raven lol)

if he plan to HT transition, id camp with tanks quite honest f***ingly and take it slow on the push. cuz with latency, 1 storm is enuf to wipe out my entire MMM/half of it. and tanks arent too bad on HT, takes bout 2-3 shots lol. considering MMM, ur tech tree is quite diversify as you can swap around tech lab/reactor and you WILL have rax > fac > port ANYWAYS

and who said about 150 food count? my medivac comes out at ~60-70 and thats when i take it REAAAALLLY aggressive lol 150 is like, god, my grandma could be quicker than that lmao

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Added on May 10, 2010, 3:33 pmgoogle/wiki touhou ;
better that way

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: May 10 2010, 03:33 PM

Hrm... I usually place Stim Packs & Concussive Shells on higher priorities (1st & 2nd respectively) if compared to Combat Shield. Need the kiting factor to give my Medivac more times to heal the army.

Yea .. stim pack and concussive missle is a must and i will get early, but as for stim packs .. i will get whn my army is build up.

i have concuss started the moment tech lab is done, shields 2nd once i got ~6-7 marines to make it worth it. i personally dont find researching stim useful without medivacs cuz they just well... die too f***ing fast lol. id want my army to last till medivacs can come out, and i prestim > heal > atk. if my enemy doesnt permit a prestim, usually id fine an opportunity to back off/kite > stim then hold my ground.

hence concuss > shield > stim

hmmm i have some unpleasant news.
just checked with Pbbseller and my friend.
impossible for me to acquire that many collectors edition of sc2.
bah. i was too naive in the first place to believe that i could fulfill all those pre-orders for ce.

its... expected lol. hence why i stuck with amazon lol.

well a fast FF chain would prevent the MMMs from even getting into range...
and toss players love sentries <3

so all i saying is that u dun really need to outnumber as long as u have the upgrades for a timely push...
there's no need to be so defensive, i'm not criticizing u lol...

i guess u haven seen high level DT play...
watch whiteRa vs TLO on one of the tournament (where whiteRa 3-0 TLO) - u can catch it on crota's shoutcast...
ur comsat would only catch 1 DT while the others are running around harassing u while u are forced to camp near ur mineral lines for possible DTs...
no1 bundle around their DTs to be spotted by a single comsat but rather spread them all out forcing u to spam it at the expanse of ur MULE...
turret proxies? it takes resources and hold u inside ur base while the toss have map control...
and seriously, wut u gonna use it to shoot? warpgate units gets free kills, collosus out ranges it, phoenixes are just too fast, and mass voidrays(ala whiteRa) jz burn through it...

again wut i've said is for 1v1...
the bigger the army u have, the harder for ur MMM ball to position especially in chokes/ sentries FF...

medivac is actually a dropship yo! lol. (does anyone actually uses them for a worker drop? 1 drop + stim pack is an instant worker wipe man lol)
and yeah, use it to overcome sentry FF blocks.

and thats WHY i had svc following my MMM push for turrets, comsat most likely will run out to scan DTs are ur front lines and/or base. and no, i dont camp at my mineral line man, only new units rallied there + turrets to spot. my main force is pushing his base + turrets

like i said though, post 2-4 mule i stop using em since i will be maxed out on workers for my main base, and expo isnt a priority to me since MMM are kinda cheap. and *typically* the reason for me to not worry bout it is also cuz of the MMM push.

btw, i am referring both 2v2 AND 1v1 considering ive been playing 1's lately to BURN my bonus pool (think of it as rested xp in WoW, damn this well thought out system ) and ive been facing situations where i have to get off my lazy bum and scout D:
had i not do my scoutings, said DT rush/mixup would DEFINITELY do me in as i wouldnt have comsat/turrets prepared
still holding my gold in 1v1 firmly XD
hopefully i dont get booted like i did in 2s and theres no excuse for shitty allies

and i dont think you're realizing this, but typical toss dont have a shit ton of mix up for medivac micros. or worse come to worse, do a med drop in the nexus :/
its DEFINITELY faster than 3x void rays for ur command center and if anything ur base rally would've enough marines stocked for an impending ray rush
the way you're describing a protoss is as if he built every single treee (lol robotics + bay + stargate) and mixing up EVERYTHING and supposedly having the upgrades for all said units. honestly, that isnt possible, and terran's MMM is still the most bread and butter all rounder.

with ALL that said, i personally am sick of it and i am looking for alternatives like the one shown on previous youtube, 1 side having a banshee/viking mixup into a marauder + med rush, while the other side, fully mechanized with thor spam + raven (gg anti-projectile drone, gg.) thats what i aim to do cept i just cant see it being all too viable in 2v2, and 1v1 you need to play it SO CAREFULLY as all those play styles require decent amount of tech time/expansions/small skirmishes. any mistakes and thats the game for you.

Damn, i guess Standard then.

Thanks deimos,by the way.

This post has been edited by Cheesenium: May 10 2010, 04:44 PM

how many copies can u get then by the way?

Cheesenium,
ah. cheers, mate.
am just trying to make a little profit and living here hahah.
standard then.

my friend told me it would probably be 20 to 1.
there are like 43 orders for standard edition in my pre-order list now.
so if i take in 60 copies of standard edition, and if it really is 20 to 1, then i can only take 3 copies of collectors edition.

so if based on 20 to 1,
if i need to take in 100 copies of CE, i need to order 2000 copies of standard.

if i need to spend like rm200 to buy each copy of standard, then i need rm400,000.00
if i need to spend like rm150 to buy each copy of standard, then i need rm300,000.00


no problem if i got that much cash on hand.
however, i dun have that much cash on hand.

u do realize
1. sentries is a gateway/warpgate unit that is used in any toss build (in 10s) that doesn't involve cheese and they shoot air very fast...
2. medivecs are soft...
3. sentries shooting the medivecs -> free kills (including wut's inside)
4. u gonna micro up all ur MMMs onto the medivec? lol

people dun use DTs for defensive or to engage ur army...
they go straight for harassment lol...
again, watch whiteRa vs TLO which i think is the best showcast of high level DTs that TLO was totally demolished...
u will get wut i'm talking about cause wutever u said is just
those 3 games would give u the perfect insight on wut i am talking about...

guess wut?
wutever u said toss dun do? whiteRa/ Nazgul/ NonY does em lol...
whiteRa uses voidrays as his lategame units and NonY has started following suit and while doing that, they have robo up for observers...
and i dun think u realize how toss's upgrade works especially with the use of chrono (toss could tech switch with ease)...

ps: toss are the best race in choke point defense using sentries

This post has been edited by evofantasy: May 10 2010, 05:08 PM

1) dmg nerfed, and air out maneuvers sentries. (in medivacs' case, they accelerate slow, but once got up to speed, they actually move faster than sentries by a ton)
2) not as much as youd think, if you wanna talk bout softness, ANYTHING LABELED TERRAN minus thor/BC are soft.
3) youd need a whole lot of sentires for that, in which, you'd sac ground momentum which marines/marauders would make swift dice outta it, and who said i cant medivac my troops backwads and let your sentries waste its energy? (or around the terrains, i mean, air always had movement superiority)
4) umm, right click to medivac then have medivac to queue command and move once its loaded? lol

well heres the toss dilemma then, he harrass me, i got rallied troops at the mineral line, he face my army, he gets raped. and DTs arent cheap mind you. the gas cost (i have to wonder, sentries AND DT? lol) would be a killer

for one, i DONT play with ' whiteRa/ Nazgul/ NonY ', in fact, do you? lol ive CLEARLY stated typical toss and thats that. and i myself play protoss and i have the best winrate using toss when i random them. so yeah.
just FYI, chrono isnt unlimited and i chrono my units too to have map control. more units = more control. tech, depending on what it is, can wait. (crucial ones like warp gate, blink or zealot charge id get em out asap for example)

also, toss DONT need sentries to be the best choke point defense. unit per unit toss reign superior, and the definition of choke points is that you limit enemy's unit count by choking them, and you are already having the upper hand. doesnt take sentries to do it AT ALL.

I see. I guess there is not enough CE to go for everyone. Are you enforcing first come first serve then?

If yes, then I'm not sure what number I will be. Put me up for CE. Any news on the price yet?

I cant find the game that you are talking about can you please look for me.

there's a reason for scoutcast/ VODs/ replays by high level players...
i think i should give up lol since u said u don't play with them ...
wonder why i even bother anyways...

everything u said is the opposite of everything i plays as a toss so if it works for u go ahead...
i do hope to have some 1v1s wit u when i'm free (from work and wow)...

http://www.youtube.com/user/BlizShouter