The other day I watched on Astro a short programme on HK talking about investing in car park lots lol... Cars may be cheap there but earning the right to park your car at the end of the day will set you back HK$200,000 or more.

In Japan and SG it's the same thing. The cost of owning cars is way beyond the means of ordinary citizens.

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Added on May 8, 2011, 1:10 amGDI can't come in for the same reasons that many other marques are reluctant to bring in their Euro V compliant cars. It's about the quality of our fuel.

This post has been edited by gregy: May 8 2011, 01:10 AM

I was at the Hyundai roadshow in 1U and one of the managers there also told me the same thing, around Oct. All they can do is take down your name and IC to indicate your interest, sort of like a booking list.

Like

Actually the difference is 12k.

Forte SX 1.6 = 85,800
Forte SX 2.0 = 97,800 (up 14% from base price)


Another comparison, Honda Civic:

1.8S = 114,980
1.8S-L = 119,980 (up 4% from base price)
2.0S = 130,980 (up 14% from base price or 16k more)

I think it's more towards the percentage difference between base and high spec that matters more than the quantum of difference.

Based roughly on the above, it sounds about right when you said the new Avante is around 9x,000 (1.6) and 11x,000 (1.8). However, at those prices buyers will think long and hard (esp for the 1.8) cos the difference between this and the Civic base model is zilch; in fact, it will have a hard time facing off against the likes of the Civic and Altis at that price level. A Hyundai is not yet a Honda, as far as Malaysian buyers are concerned.

Errr, sorry lor. Engine is smooth, 6-speed gearbox also very smooth. Smoother than my previous FD and CM5 lor. Kia's Theta II CVVT engine (2.0) is producing 156PS and 194Nm while Hyundai's Theta II Dual CVVT is pushing 165PS and 198Nm. GDI haven't come in yet.

Nothing much separates the Koreans and Japs in terms of mechanicals today, but in terms of design and equipment, you decide where to put your money.

You won't go wrong with either car You will really enjoy the Forte 2.0...

How is that possible? The Wira ranges between 950-980kg, while I'm pretty sure the Elantra would weigh at least 1.2 tonnes if not more.

Well, I've been driving cars for more than 20 yrs now. Having owned and driven a mish mash of old vehicles with no power steering (Toyota Liteace, Honda Accord 1st gen, Mazda 323 2nd and 3rd gen), to cars with hydraulic PS (P/Wira, Corolla AE101, Mazda 626 Cronos, Accord 7th gen (CM5) and Civic FD) to cars with EPS (H/City iDSI and currently Forte 2.0SX), I seriously don't understand what the fuss is all about.

Yes, there is a slight difference between EPS and hydraulics, but not to the point that causes the former to feel floaty or disjointed. To fully appreciate the difference, you'd have to compare like for like, i.e., two similar cars with the same suspension setup, but one with EPS and the other with hydraulics. More likely than not, it is the particular model's suspension and steering setup that make all the difference rather than the EPS. My gf's Myvi SE uses ol' skool hydraulics and the car feels floaty and disjointed nonetheless

You have to understand that all steering systems are mechanical in nature, i.e., there is a mechanical linkage between the steering column and front wheels. Assistance can either be hydraulic or electric (not electronic). I wouldn't drive any car that didn't have a failsafe mechanical linkage to steer my car in the case of power loss. It's all in the tuning. Many new cars have variable gearing power assistance even with hydraulic systems and those cars too, can feel un-involving. The beauty of EPS is that the engineers can program the EPS motor to respond in a more involving way whereas with hydraulic systems you're pretty much stuck with whatever it was designed to do.

I happen to have a sibling who owns a Forte 1.6SX with hydraulic power steering so I have managed to compare his car and mine. To be honest, the difference is negligible; in fact I prefer EPS (MDPS in Hyundai/Kia speak) for day to day driving as it is a bit easier to drive at low speeds and for parking.

1.3 tonnes is not a featherweight by any means, at least when compared to a 950kg Wira Crosswinds will also take lorries out, what more a passenger car. Another reason for the lack of "feel" when faced with crosswinds is simply due to the superior road handling of the car. Don't forget that this and many modern cars are equipped with electronic stability control systems which help keep you planted and going in a straight line rather than being forced off the road. The electric power steering is modulated based on vehicle speed, steering input, throttle position etc so ya, in a way, you don't have to fight the car as much as you'd have to with an older hydraulic system. The feeling of being pushed to the side is inevitable because cars are sprung to absorb lateral forces and not horizontal ones. Even Accords and Camrys will get that being pushed feeling regardless. It's what happens when you're being pushed that matters.

This whole argument would've been moot had it been that you were being pushed to the kerb and yet you didn't sense it until it was too late. The reality is, the ESC/TC/whatever and EPS helped to keep you on the road, taking away the stress of needing to fight with the car. There is a difference between "light" and "effortless"

Yup it's true, read it at a few sites too. In S.Korea itself, a slap in the face for taikor Hyundai cos the Sonata lost in sales to the K5. But TBH, both cars oso cun la.

I remember at one point during a roadshow in 1U, the sales manager told me that I should buy Hyundai because of "solid backing" from Hyumal instead of Naza with their poor track record. Hyumal is known for pussyfooting instead of striking while the iron is hot. They missed the Raya rush, let's see how they fare for the year end holidays. No offense to Hyundai owners and lovers, but I dare not put any hope on Hyundai Malaysia.

Wah, how come you're such a Civic basher lol... I don't think the new one is uglier than the current one, maybe less pretty but the current one is definitely better looking It's just like if you were walking down the street with your gf/wife and some lenglui walking past, and your gf/wife asks you who is prettier. Takkan you say, "Darling, she's uglier than you..."

If the current one was ugly, nobody would buy it, regardless whether it was less or more ugly.

Enough of the England lessons haha... Anyway you should check out the studio shots of the 2012 Civic, available on Paul Tan's blog and elsewhere. No need to rely on spy shots. It looks half decent la, but not as striking as the current one.

This post has been edited by gregy: Sep 7 2011, 10:10 AM

Don't say Altis la, even Civic 2.0S oso have to move aside liao...

If not because of the bodykit la, TRD la, Sportivo la, sure mati katak d.

Actually, if not for Forte, more ppl would have bought Vios/City. Now, every month there are 500-600 *less* Vios/City being registered. Once the new Elantra is launched (zzzzzzzzzz........), there will be even less new Vios/City on the road.

The Jetta is essentially a Golf sedan. I would be happy just to get the 1.4TSI, DSG and bi-xenons, for less than the price of a Golf.

If only they could bring in the Jetta GLI at the price of the Golf TSI Dream on!

Oh, I got my facts. Paultan.org, AW, MTM. Published figures. Learn to read between the lines. You would, if you were a marketing guy but clearly you're not. Someone looking to buy an Altis will most probably not consider a Forte as it is "beneath him/her". He/she will compare this against the likes of the Civic, Sylphy and possibly 308T (roughly same price segment). In bolehsia, ppl don't care what segment a car belongs to, as long as they can afford it.

Let's look at some hard facts:

Based on similar selling prices, the market has these choices and more:

P1 Persona : RM79-92k YTD:28,248 units
Toyota Vios : RM71-91k YTD:16,816 units
Honda City : RM82-87k YTD: 7,802 units
Naza Forte : RM81-98k YTD: 3,430 units
Nissan Latio : RM84-99k YTD: 473 units
Nissan Sentra : RM85-93k YTD: 734 units
Mazda 2 : RM75-80k YTD: 1,047 units
Ford Fiesta : RM70-83k YTD: 2,384 units
Pug 207 : RM73-77k YTD: 975 units
Suzy Swift : RM76-82k YTD: 2,953 units

IOW, how many more units of Vios do you think would have sold, if not for the launch of Inspira, Forte, M2 and Fiesta? Yes, it's too general to pinpoint, but suffice to say that had the newcomers not come in during the last two years the Jap brands would have sold even more cars. You can't look at month on month and claim status quo when the total number of new registrations has gone up. Opportunity cost. Get it now? It used to be just Vios and City trading blows at this price level, but within a few short years so many more choices have come to join the fun.

The fact that in such a short period of time, a Korean make is in the top 25 list here: http://www.motortrader.com.my/Cars/NewsHea...8Models%29.aspx

....goes to show the quantum leap of Korean cars jumping from bargain basement to being able to gnaw at the heels of the mighty Japs. You seriously think the new Elantra won't sway some customers away from the dugong, say a few thousand? Discounting the Inspira and City, a total of 11,996 unit sales went collectively to Naza, Nissan, Mazda, Ford, Pug and Suzy. Add the Elantra, and even more will be taken away from Toyota/Honda. Now that's a fact.

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Added on September 8, 2011, 3:31 amWhy don't you count this way:

200 lost opportunities x RM80,000 (average price for a Vios)

This translates to RM16m loss in sales per month. And judging from the sales of Forte, the Elantra should be able to match or exceed it. If that is the case, then we're looking at 500 x RM80,000 = RM40m additional lost revenue. Ok, to be fair, once you remove the excise duty element the figure is lower, but it's still substantial to a car manufacturer.

Better don't apply for a job as CEO of Toyota Malaysia

This post has been edited by gregy: Sep 8 2011, 03:33 AM

Oops, sorry. I meant Inspira.

Dunno if it comes with High Intensity Discharge headlamps, but its imminent launch (zzzzzz....) is causing a whole lot of High Anxiety Discharge lol...

Excellent FC report Snowfish. Quick question, which part of the States were you driving that car? Was the climate cold? I think for our typical KL traffic and weather, just add 10% to the figures you quoted, which is still a respectable figure.

Car prices drop with age. This statement is true, yet a double-edged sword.

For most people, they will trade in their old cars and take delivery of their new cars at the same time, meaning a pre-agreement with panel used cars recommended by the SAs. Here's the Catch 22. Most people who are concerned with a few thousand difference, in most probability are working class citizens who don't have the luxury of a few months waiting period between cars. He/she will need a car to get around/do business/go to office/what have you. Those who do have the luxury of time in between cars, would prolly have another car lying around to use. But for many of these people, a few thousand RM to them is like peanuts. Hence, Catch 22 lol...

Thanks to the stupid way banks use to dish out car loans, i.e., a Jan 2011 car and a Dec 2011 car are given the same weighting, the market has already wised up a long time ago. Cars bought toward the year end will tend to be offered with tantalizing discounts on interest rates, freebies etc while if you bought a new car toward the start of the year you get no such thing. So, for those who bought their cars toward the end of the year shouldn't complain much about resale value bla bla, because they actually paid less for their cars in the first place.

Not to mention, the extra savings they get for trading in or selling off their old cars end of this year instead of next year when their old cars' values would have depreciated another step.

Over the years, this has been the accepted way of buying and selling cars. So there's no need to press the panic button and try to beat the system. Everybody already knows the game. It's only a matter of you as a prospective car buyer, when would you choose to jump in.

In a nutshell, if you want to save a few k, sell now and buy this year's car. When it comes to selling your car off next time, you've already saved the money so you shouldn't complain. If you want to have a better resale value, you will end up paying more for your new car and getting less for your old car. In the end, LPPL...

You get the car in Jan also most prob you will get a Dec production car. You want to play safe, book after Jan. But with CNY around the corner, dunno when only you'll get your car woh. If can wait, good la, if kenot wait then keep bugging the SA for more freebies and lower interest loh...

Don't forget, it's not about year of registration but year of production.