Bro Pierrye and Anfieldude are u guys free this Saturday to do the shootout

I'm OK this Saturday. Let me know when you will arrive.

Fuiyoh!!! Can peasant come and kaypoh ar?

Elite Chew, you should go and poison your own. Then, reno a room for HT purpose.

Btw, using AE-4000?

i wanna join pls.....

projector is my dream

lemme know if its AE4000...

that's on my shortlist of purchase!

I'm in. Let me know the time. I'll bring my gear. But be warned I've seen the benq, its pretty good!

LOTS and LOTS of photos please...

I'm open to any suggestion of RM6-12k 1080p projectors

Waiting to TS to post official invitation and details...

waaa.. shootout ah? HD?
wanna sponsor those projector use for an event of mine in June or not?

Venue? I wanna join, can?

bros .. sorry i am just bringing my projector.. i cant invite any1 coz its not my house.. most likely can join but maybe will limit the number of ppl.. coz i dont have a clue how big is the ht... will update u guys ..

aiyo.. i hope i get invited

My HT max seat are 6 persons. So including myself, mys_terious and anfieldude, another 3 persons should be fine. It's between BENQ W6000 and AE4000 shootout. We are just curious how different between the current gen LCD projector vs DLP projector. Any particular scene you guys want to test out? Please note that anfieldude might need an hour min to tune the AE4000 (not sure if we want to do the CMS, if got time, maybe just take a quick look).

Casino Royale, Iron Man, Confucius (very good PQ)

yay... i book one of the last 3 seats ya..

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Added on April 14, 2010, 7:21 pmbtw .. wat time is the shootout this sat?

This post has been edited by ronnt88: Apr 14 2010, 07:21 PM

Must Tests:

The Dark Knight, Opening Scene
Kung Fu Panda, Any scene which shows close up of Sifu's furs
Sin City, Best Black & White PQ
Baraka, awesome colour palette

Haven't confirm the time. Depend on mys_terious.

Mys_terious, remember to bring your 25ft min HDMI cable. I'll use ATI clone mode for A/B comparison.

This post has been edited by pierreye: Apr 14 2010, 08:33 PM

Would like to book the 2nd last seat.

ok based on the 1st come 1st serve order in this thread chewkl, ront88 and yong goh are in.. if any of them pullout i will post here.. we r sorry coz of space limitation we couldnt invite more ppl.. i am sure pierreye n anfieldude will post a thorough review for those who missed out..

i dont think there will be much surprises, when i bought ae4000 i did a quick comparison between w5000 n ae4000.. sorry for the pana fans, i w5000 has the upperhand for my taste.. i chose ae4000 just becoz of price n reliability.. not saying benq has reliability problem just that i havent heard pana has much problem n its also cheaper

if anfieldude n pierreye are ok with sat 2pm saturday then 2pm it will be.

This post has been edited by mys_terious: Apr 15 2010, 12:23 AM

hi there... am just keen for the results of your discovery

i am all the way here in Sarawak so its a rather long way for me to be there in person...

TQ so much for the invite

Tentatively we confirm on 2pm this Saturday. My house is in Greenlane Heights, Penang. I'll send out my address through PM.

So confirm list are:
mys_terious
anfieldude
ront88
chewkl

since yong goh is not coming, next in the line is jimmy teng

Greenlane Heights, I can walk there.

OK, thks. I'm in.

Waitin for de rvw..

But I sense I knw de outcome..

Enjoy..
D

I'm open minded. We might have preferences but before I get the W6000, I seriously consider AE4000 as well.

so near my house too.. dang, I'm in KL this weekend... enjoy and do post up some photos and reports!!

Haha,

Me too.. but I m bound by budgets n d Benq is a lot more exp than de Panny..
at least for me..

M eyin ae4k too
D

just in case you guy has another spot do include me ya... i can be the slave to take some pic on the setup

Elite Chew, your bodyguards going to tag along since you are walking?

Btw, will you guys calibrate the AE-4000 as well as BenQ prior to the shoot out? But, it would be a very tedious and time consuming

Haha..

I tink one is de resident pj .. so shld be alrdy calibrted albeit to owners likin.. its de comparo pj tat nids calibrtn again..
watever if start sharp at 2 plus calibrtn n talk cock summore..
dinner time can finish?

Kekeke
D

Yeah, the Benq is already calibrated. So we will calibrate the AE4000. It will take time, but I have a faster meter,we just need to confirm what is best before starting

i have to leave at 4.30pm

As we need the projector bulb to warm up first before calibration, we'll do some comparison first for first 30min, then calibrate and do a second round comparison on post calibration.

bro maybe i need to drop by earlier n drop the pj to u 1st.. my wife asks me to go mothercare in gurney ... sian lo

OK. Or drop your wife at gurney and give her RM 1k to shop until 6pm.

wat is mothercare?? hahahaha....

mothercare = shop that would make u wish u haven't had kids.

Bro pierreye, thks for the invitation.
Unfortunately, I can't make it for this time. You guys enjoy yourself and do post some photos.

that means the slot is open to maniac who's our pro photographer lor

I can also shoot the photos, but not pro lah.

which body & lens u using?

Final Update:
Confirm list are:
mys_terious
anfieldude
ront88
chewkl
maniac

I'll pm you guys my address and hp no.

Since maniac is there then no need for me to bring my peasant gear liao...

Can ask some tips from Maniac on photography. Off topic as I'm looking to change my Nikon D90 to Canon 550D as I want the 1080p video.

D90 dun have 1080p video? i tot have live view also rite?

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Added on April 16, 2010, 10:13 ambut maniac not confirmed yet mah...

This post has been edited by ronnt88: Apr 16 2010, 10:13 AM

If maniac not going then I can bring my gear there and take some pics...but just a lowly D90 /w kitlens + SB-800.

What do you guys think about the Sony HW-15 projector?

D90 only max 720p with built in jello effect.

oh... then i'm quite interested in the 550D as well now

feel like upgrading my peasant D5000, regret not getting one with built-in motor

This post has been edited by ronnt88: Apr 16 2010, 10:50 AM

Wah, this is an excellent shootout. Glad you guys managed to organise it. Definitely looking forward to hearing the results and impressions after this Sat.

My personal 2 cents, U want to shoot video, get a proper videocam. I haven't used my video mode in D90 at all.

But traveling very "mah huan". Need to bring 2 equipment.

Like that bring PnS, dSLR also very mah huan cos so bulky. j/k bro...

Anyway, go go Nikon!!!

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Image...brand2%29/Nikon

This post has been edited by chewkl: Apr 16 2010, 11:25 AM

elite chew u wanna be removed from tomorrow's invitation list izzit? hahahah

anyways, canon & nikon is similar class rite? should be similar pic quality also rite? I don't think u can go wrong with either these 2 brands though I personally like the nikon name more... canon just reminds me too much of household inkjet printers...

This post has been edited by ronnt88: Apr 16 2010, 11:30 AM

Elite Ron, I sold all my Canon gear and jumped ship to Nikon. My only regret is this...































I SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT MUCH EARLIER.

oooh....... why why why??? pic quality totally diff?

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Added on April 16, 2010, 11:33 amtaukeh pierreye, how much u wanna let go ur D90? care to share details like shot counts, warranty left, wat kind of accessories included etc. Thanks ya

This post has been edited by ronnt88: Apr 16 2010, 11:33 AM

she wont be going... i have to go to mothercare myself.. sian lo!

Haha..

Sat aftrn.. frm Green Lane to Gurney not too bad la.. if d other way ard.. then u sangkut liao..

Ehhh yay!! I am in XD

See you all tmr, D90 or Nikon DMovie has limitations, but if uses accordingly still kicking ass keh...

here one taken with mainly D90 by me recently for France Taipei Bridal House...

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/vi...60873536&ref=mf


Now I do hope I survive the shoot out and don't go and buy a projector sooner than I planned LOL...

Saturday after 1pm very jam from town to Greenlane due to some working half day. You better go early at 11pm then cabut before 12:30pm or goto queensbay mall.

ok boss

wah.... 11pm. Bro, typo.

Suddenly becomes DSLR topic

eh 2 hour to go... got pop corn ah

This post has been edited by Maniac: Apr 17 2010, 12:02 PM

sorry. Only drinks. no food in theater room, afraid got ants in the room.

i sponser qnap /synology / tvix / icydock display if you all got gathering next month..
i ocming back to penang 19-25.....

Sponsor as lucky draw? Then we organize second round.

you bring your C-200 lor..

guys...what is the conclusion?...excited to know since i cannot join...

Just finish the comparison and is revealing. I had to say LCD projector had improved quite a margin compare to older gen projector such as ae900. My summary is you can't go wrong with either projector. We even cover half of each projector to project the image for comparison. I will put the recommendation as if you are sensitive to dlp rainbow, get LCD. Either technology, make sure that the projector had a good calibration menu and good tracking. Min are good gamma tracking, greyscale tuning and best with cms. Both projector had very good iris and I can't really detect iris movement unless you anaylse frame by frame.

Benq w6000 advantage:
sharpness is the main advantage. Pc desktop will give a very sharp picture compare to LCD. I think part of the issue is due to LCD 3 panel convergence. If you use pc and gaming, dlp will give you max sharpness. Movie viewing you wouldn't notice much of LCD softness unless you have a very good source or sharp picture.
Brightness - benq is brighter. Max I measure around 21 ftL. Ae4000 max around 14ftL
Both measure on 1.4 gain carada bw screen. Bright scene I'll give slight advantage to dlp.
Color uniformity - more consistence. LCD panel had slight tint in corners. Not much of a concern as you don't notice during movie, only test pattern.

Ae4000 - better black level. No question here. Darker picture had a pop to it due to lower black level plus perfect 2.2 gamma due to 9 point gamma calibration. Get this if you are black level freak.
More film like which I think due to softer image. It's more relaxing on the eye. If you like watching long session, it's less tiring.
As we didn't calibrate the cms I prefer the dlp color but I believe ae4000 could be fine tune further on the color to reduce the slight red push.
No rainbow, a must for those that are rainbow sensitive. 2 of our viewers can see rainbow. I must be the lucky bunch.

No winner here, both had strengths and weaknesses. One more note, I feel ae4000 had better pq compare to rs10. Others are welcome to put in your opinion. 1080p projector really need a good source to show its quality so don't feed DVD or 720p.

PS: rontt88, mys_terious and anfieldude, as all of you had listen to rontt88 submersive, how do you feel about DD-12, should I upgrade? Been feeling I could get more kick from better sub. So far the sub blend in to my main speaker quite good.

This post has been edited by pierreye: Apr 17 2010, 07:26 PM

TQ again for the invitation, its a informative session that benefit me alot!

So now I know what are the weird Green thingy that I always see with projected visual.
The for en lighting me on that!


After the session, for that pop factor, I still prefer the sharpness on the dlp. And that's my personal liking lah. Maybe I am too used to sharp images.

Anyway, here's a casual shot of the projected screen comparison side by side.


and OK i am sold to Windows Media Center!



This post has been edited by Maniac: Apr 17 2010, 09:44 PM

Interesting review esp the AE-4000's perfect 2.2 gamma. That's a remarkable achievement for a projector.

Thanks for sharing your opinions. Good to know the relative merits of both technologies and projectors. Seems Panny upped the ante with the AE-4000. Better PQ than RS10 eh? That's a good achievement at its price point. The perfect 2.2 gamma is a plus too.

I've got to view a good DLP pj one day to understand the sharpness it can give.

Good shootout session. For those who don't like to read long reviews...here's the short summary. Both the projectors were pretty exceptional with each a showcase of their own technology. U cannot go wrong with either.

We started by calibrating the Panny as the BenQ was already calibrated. Since there was a good turnout....., pierreye and I decided that we would just to greyscale to as close as possible and fix the Gamut to Colour 1 as it was pretty accurate on the CIE to start with. The panny behaved very well and we managed to calibrate greyscale and gamma pretty quickly in about 1hr. The 9 point gamma (actually it is almost a 100 point system as u could theoretically adjust literally from 1% to 99% if u had the time) and it doubles up as a greyscale, decent results for greyscale and fantastic results for gamma. I have only once seen gamma as flat as this on a display ever.... (PS. I can definately improve on the greyscale quite a bit more since the controls are available and respond linearly so it can be made better, however, I doubt most could tell the difference, there was not tint in dark or bright scenes as the Delta Es for greyscale are pretty low. I would probably need another 2 hrs to perfect it)

The gamut was ok but red was being pushed. The problem with Colour 1 was that u could not engage the full 3D CMS. U can see the results as attached. The colour errors are slightly above what I would be happy with, but the crowd was getting impatient...and wanted to watch content!

We did numerous movies and also compared pc images.

Out of the bat, all agreed that the BenQ was pretty much a winner in pc text area. Sharp wordings and really crystal clear still images. The Panny was softer but if u did not compare, u could have been pretty ok with it. Watching content, its trickier. Yes, the sharpness and the ability for DLP to better define edges gave it the edge but it was just a touch. Once the image moves, u could not see such a clear difference.

The BenQ calibrated brighter (21ftL) whereas the Panny came in at ~14ftL. However, this is with a 1.4 gain screen and this is the brightest LCD projector I have seen as yet. The black levels looked clearly superior on the Panny but the ability to resolve edges better and the higher peak output on the BenQ gave it the slight edge. We actually did a split screen and on that it looked closer than the numbers suggested. What it meant was that for scenes that had bright images the picture was slighly more "pop" on the BenQ but on darker scenes the Panny had more pop.

Colour performance was very close, but as we did not do a full CMS on the Panny it was pushing red. I know that can be calibrated to perfection as I have done it before on the AE3000 so it will be close. However, the picture was noisier on the BenQ due to its technology. So, it was much smoother looking on the Panny. All this was done at 60Hz refresh and I believe the Panny handled it slightly better.

I did not like the dynamic iris on both, but most others could more than tolerate it.

All in all a good session. I will write more soon to complete this.

Bottom line - I would like to have the sharpness and contrast of the DLP and the black levels of the LCD with the controls that the Panny has. Is it available yet? No...so I guess I will stick to my display


Attached File(s)
 Panny_AE4000_gamut_no_cms.pdf ( 109.05k ) Number of downloads: 13
 Panny_AE4000_quick_greyscale.pdf ( 134.4k ) Number of downloads: 11

Thanks to Pierreye for hosting the shootout, and to Anfieldude for explanation on the technical stuff. It was nice meeting everyone. Too bad Ronn had to leave early. I think what he saw was just calibration and blue, green, red images.

BTW, I think most of us here would kill to get a real HT setup like Pierreye. Very nicely done...

What I know JVC RS35 had a perfect convergence + crazy contrast so it should be the best of both worlds. The price also out of this world.

Hopefully in a few years we can get the same performance at lower price. Of course by then the latest pjs would be pushing the envelope even further

ya thanks to pierreye for the invite... love ur setup man, dream come true for me

Thanks for the compliment. The cost is average but I feel the difficult part is planning. Lots of planning. It should be part of your house renovation, not an after thought cause you will have lots of constraint to fit your ideas. Find one best room you can afford and work from there. Hack the wall if you need to fit your room specification. If I keep my toilet/bathroom in the 3rd floor, I couldn't do a 2 row seat and the false wall.

And last advice, get a fix screen. No wrinkles and distraction of uneven lines compare to pull down screen.

Note on sharpness:
Some more digging in LCOS sharpness vs DLP from below article reflect what we see in LCD vs DLP.

http://www.videovantage.com/?p=819

I would say AE4000 convergence would base on your luck. If you get a unit with 0.4-0.5 pixel misalign, you are very unlucky. Great if you can get a unit within 0.1 to 0.2 pixel. Mys_terious unit looks quite good. On the left hand side of the screen, I estimate around 0.1 pixel but on the right hand side is slightly more, around 0.3 pixel on red.

This post has been edited by pierreye: Apr 18 2010, 08:53 AM

Special thanx to pierreye for letting us enjoy his ht room and anfieldude's effort in calibrating my pj... all in all i think all of us had fun except the part where pierreye's son made me feel so stupid... <10 year old kid can calibrate displays nowadays hahha.

I think ur DD12 is doing very well in ur room. In fact, my honest opinion is that with a Submersive and without an external EQ for the sub, I believe ur sub will overpower everything else. Ur room behaves in a unique way. The build up of bass is immense yet, there is no boominess. The main thing about a ported sub is the ability to build up the bass in the port thus increasing the dBs while going low. What essentially happens is that u cannot the low rumblings. In ur room, the DD12 managed to seem to be going low enuf for me. There was a clear tactile feeling that is normally only there with ported subs. There is something abt ur room that is different. Not sure if u have the REW graphs, but my guess is the decay is slighthly slower and the DD12 is dipping way below 35Hz at high levels. Also I believe that that ur positioning of the sub is optimal as such that u r managing to deep pretty low, much lower than normal for a sealed sub.

I would not upgrade as u stand the risk of over bass. U will lose other details.

i kind of disagree:) .. i felt like the bass could be better.. where i was sitting i think it lacks the bass that i can 'feel'

will definitely look u up for more tips & pointers if & when i can afford my dream ht room

regarding ur sub, it think u have enough low end already so can safe ur money.. haha.

would lend u the subM for trial but it's too freaking heavy to move around

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Added on April 18, 2010, 12:02 pmsvs poison ? must feel the wind beneath ur feet?

This post has been edited by ronnt88: Apr 18 2010, 12:03 PM

Possible, the 2nd row, but the 1st row was pretty good and the floor was already rumbling. The danger is unless u use an AS-EQ1 that can take into account all positions (in this case a 32point calibration will help) the normal 8 point calibration that the Audyssey Multi EQ-XT cannot resolve all seating positions.

Else when u calibrate it for the 2nd row, the 1st row will lose details due to overpowering bass. Thats the danger of over bass, the dialogue and L/R will be drowned.

There was already a whack in the chest feeling for me either standing or in the 1st row. The 2nd row, slightly dimished but rememer I believe it is raised so, its a little tough unless u hv more resolution.

pierreye, if u want, I can pass u the AS-EQ1 to try out to see if u can improve bass response in the 2nd row, but it will be a compromise. The only way to fix this is to add another sub and the opposite side at the back of the room. That might be an option, but I'm not sure u hv the space.

In fact in certain position, there is a dip in different freq. If I remember correctly, first row middle seat a little bit to the right had a dip around -6db at 63hz. Back row I think where mys_terious sit the dip is at 40+hz. DD12 had built in eq similar to Velo SMS-1 but I don't think that can fix the dip due to cancellation.

Sometimes, we just want those ah beng subwoofer that give you a thump in the chest. Maybe I get another 12" sub (SVS SB12-NSD sealed sub?) at the left hand corner. Still can squeeze in a small sub there. SVS AS-EQ1 I'm interested if I get twin sub.

This post has been edited by pierreye: Apr 18 2010, 02:35 PM

ya ya.. thump in chest = very good good

i didnt try the 1st row:(... u r right abt the ahbeng part .. ahmeng=ahbeng:).. anyway your ht is very very nice liao .. who cares abt 2nd row as long as the seat u normally sit in sounds good.. i just complained for fun since i dont have to pay for the upgrade:) By the way u can also convert ht into a panic room.. since u can hide behind the screen heheh

how much is the AE4000 going for nowadays? where to buy?

Sorry to barge in, but i just saw in the Events & Gathering section where the flyers are for projectors.

You could find it there if you're in KL..


P/S : Didn't realize the Penang PC fair ended already.

This post has been edited by sKyWiR3pT3lTd: Apr 18 2010, 05:52 PM

IIRC, retails at RM13,999. However, I was informed that it's a lot cheaper down south, which is less than 10 grand

Rm 14k is too expensive. As usual, bolehland price always more expensive. Third rate pay, 1st rate price.

eh... our pro photographer failed to capture some pics of the room?

This post has been edited by ronnt88: Apr 19 2010, 09:28 AM

If you want the projector, either buy from our neighbour country or get from US. Half price.

This post has been edited by pierreye: Apr 19 2010, 09:34 AM

Only tk shots of the screen? It would have been great if we have a 'sneak peek' of pierreye's HT room



agree. Our neighbour down south is better option if it is slightly more expensive than US.

How to avoid tax?

Can i just tell custom it was for work purposes?

I headed Singapore this weekend and may just be tempted to whack that plastic card

was told by pierreye that projectors are non-taxable items