http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-9998346-47.html


http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Dolby_TrueH..._PCM?page=0%2C0


Interesting, even the sifu cant really hear the diffrent in DD and DTS Lap ( perfect condition). Maybe, in the future the mixing engineer can further utilized this HD audio format to make sure they really sound significantly diffrent.

It made me think now, I may not need a media player that could decode HD audio. The mkv movies I tested recently such as Transformer1, 2012, Iron Man, Chris Botti In Boston, Andrea Bochelli Live in Tuscani, Ninja Assasin etc are all in standard DTS or DD format only. And they sound great with my low budget setup of Yamaha AVR a Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 speakers. So the 1080p ( even some 720p) looks so good and maybe a standard DTS or DD sound is good enuf. The size also smaller.

So... do we need these HD Audio format? Do we need more high end equipment to listen to the diffrent? even the perfect setup as mention in this article said he cant tell the diffrent. But it does mentioned that, perhaps the mixing engineer have not fully utilized this HD audio format. perhaps in the coming future movies and concert........

Interesting topic for discussion.

p/s Sorry if this topic was repeated. I search and couldn't find it.

I have read some pro saying the same thing...they cannot tell much difference is sound quality.

I guess the difference is in the $$$ and if it makes you happy and you can tell the difference, then go for it.

Some people will go to the extend of repeating the scenes just to find those very subtle difference and to them it makes one hell of a difference. For me, just sit back and relax and enjoy the movies!

need != want

DTS MA is definitely much better!! So is DD THD!!

perhaps TS used the wrong keyword to search for similiar thread .

Here it goes : http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1162480

ah thanks. I used wrong words to search..

ask mpyw and htkaki, they got better ears

but we dont have a Jamo wor....

dunt pray pray..... very powderful minute lifestyle speakers.

Some say better than Bose?

I thought majority?

Those 'big potato' loudspeakers like mine will not even make it to YB's home . Btw, is it true that he has a set of Jamo in his lavish 400sq ft bathroom to enjoy HD movies / karaoke?

At least U got big potato. I got piezoelectonic buzzers niah.

erm... my 'big potato' in my small pad but your piezoelectonic buzzers in a 3 storey mansion

TrueHD is the best....DTS-MA too noisy....

I can hear a different between DD and TrueHD. TrueHD audio support up to 7.1 audio while DD just at 5.1.
DD is transmit at 1500kbps while TrueHD at 5500kbps.

Try demo TrueHD or DTS-HD demo disc and u will believe it.

This post has been edited by minimize: Apr 6 2010, 08:46 PM

but isnt it interesting that these expert who went to Dobly and DTS lab with all the perfect setting from hardware to software and they said the different isnt much? some say this article were back in 2008, so mixing eng may not take full advantage of it yet...but remember, they already in DD and DTS lab. The engineer there should already taken all the steps to mix them I think...

oh well..... things should improve going forward...


and btw... more and more 25G Bluray selling now at RM40+

Probably their sound system is so good that even DD or DTS are reproduced to perfection.


A peasant setup like me certainly could hear a difference.

including my peasant setup too.

in that case if what that DTS and DD did... then that means we dont really need the HD Audio like MA and TrueHD because standard DD and DTS can do already. ha ha ha ha


I guess it must have improved since then.. ...

hahaha! char!!

Bit rate is just numbers....what our ear hear is a totally different thing. You can have a billion kbps and if our ear cannot tell the difference, then it means nothing.

Just like digital photo....300dpi is photo realistic already. Anything above that our eyes cannot tell the difference. Just remember that Manufacturers will always come out with new things to empty our wallet. The next thing you will see is probably Superbit Bluray coming your way btu how much better is the picture quality is qeatiuonable.

Sure. If you're half-deaf or deaf, of course audio bit-rate means nothing.

Before LaserDisc/DVD, people thought VHS was good enough. Before BD/HD, people thought DVD was good enough. But most people won't know what they are missing until they are shown the difference. Read this review of the Lord Of The Rings on Blu-ray Disc.

Video on BD is using lossy compression. Audio on BD can also use lossy compression but most new studio releases use lossless compression. There is a big difference.

If you gone to see This Is It in digital cinema, what you were hearing is the best the movie could sound.


fuad

+1

Gud topic tis..

Heres my 2 cts..

Do u nid new hd odo.. in a nutshell - no.. but since it cums wif de new 1080p vdo .. which incidentally is way way better than SD, there really isnt much of a choice..

I upgrdd my avr to lossless all becos of hdmi's eqpd displays/sources .. de odo part is jus de icing..

Wil I upgrd again if its jus solely for odo? I would say NO..
But tis is me who hv 'tin' ears.. another individual would say otherwise thou'..

On de topic of de experts not hearin much of a difference .. Sound is veri subjective n tis only bolsters tat argument..

Bottom line is u hv to decide for urself whether an upgrd warrants de expenditure..

I jus enjoy de mv..
D

The difference between 56k vs 256k mp3 would probably sound very different. But as the bitrate gets higher and higher the difference become less and less obvious until to a point where any increase in bitrate cannot be differentiate by the human ears. Even a lot of pro under lab condition have acknowledge that there isn't much difference between those compress and uncompress audio.

This is It when play on the same cinema with normal DTS could have sound just as good too!!!

you know what, I got "This Is IT" in DVD.ISO format and MKV. The MKV is in 1080p and the DVD is not that clear and I think even lower than 720p. But both use the same sound quality DTS 5.1.

And you know what, he said the mkv version sound better. he he he. it might be due to the 1080p change the perception in audio as well?

for me, I cant tell the diffrent on the audio because both same format. But picture quality lots of diffrence of course. But the picture made the whole experience feel more realistic.. honestly.

The diminishing returns on lossy compression is well documented. But so too are the fidelity of lossless compression.

DTS HDMA and Dolby TrueHD don't work like MP3s. In both codecs, the compression is VBR. That means the more complex audio passages get more bitrate while the quieter ones get much less. Their file sizes would always be bigger than standard DTS (1.5Mbps) or DD (640kbps). You can see the same thing when you compress an audio file using MP3/AAC/WMA and Flac/AAC Lossless.


MPCM is uncompressed audio. DTS HDMA and Dolby TrueHD are compressed audio. All deliver master tape quality.

Don't confuse lossless and lossy compression.
It could have. But there is a big difference between sounding good enough to sound fantastic. I remember the snap of the drums that sounded true to life and hardly heard in even normal CDs (16-bit instead of 24-bit master tapes).

There are gourmand and audiophiles and there are people who just like what's in front of them. So let's agree to disagree.

The .MKV is probably from the BD. A DTS HDMA track on BD also contains a separate lossy DTS track at 1.5Mbps. The DVD might have the DTS track at 768kbps. There are audible differences.


fuad

peasant always kena pijak by elites

I second this .... this could very well be the case . The full bandwidth of plain ol' DTS available on blurays ( and some handful DVDs) easily outperforms the chopped down DTS track on most DVDs .The same can be said for DD as well.
And trust me , u don't need high fidelity equipment to hear the difference. My cousin still is shocked and delighted on how he's sony HTIB has gone from ok to awesome with blurays ...lol

Hmm.... Sony HTiB also beat Jamo Someway must have gone seriously wrong

DD thruHD & DTS MA...make my pocket koyak....

result....

No matter the DD or DTHD or DTS or DTS HD, it all depends on the good recording and mixing. I have heard and campared with the normal DTS and DTS HD, the end result is the good recording and mixing wins hands down. A very good recording and mixing normal DTS soundtrack is always better than the DTS HD with mid class recording and mixing. But if vice versa, in theory, should be the DTS HD win hands down, but it still depend on the HT set, not all HT set can fully reproduce the DTS HD. And for me, the best sound reproduction is Cinema even they using normal DD or DTS, I think this is because they are using a very good HT set.

Malaysian Cinemas? Not from what I have seen....

Haha..

I hv attended mvs tat didnt hv any surround action at all..
Thou tats prbbly due to de fact tat de operator couldnt care less wat is happening n not due to de sofware/hardware involvd..

I stil go to de cines if only becos I cant wait to catch de mv..

D

Please try the THX certified cinema.

even THX cinema also not more better than HT at home..
might be better abit compare to normal cinema

I personally feel THX cinemas is a clear step up compared to the regular ones. Even the now aging THX hall in Summit USJ beats many of the cinemas that came after that. just my 5 cent

Yes, you are right, for THX certified hall, they will do regular check-up to make sure all the THX standard can be met. So this is not a surprise to get better sound quality if comapre to normal cinema. I have been start watching movie only in THX cinema hall somewhere around 1997 when I first introduced to THX Cinema. Now I'll only watch movie in Mid Valley Hall 12, Summit THX Hall, unless I'm watching cantonese or chinese movies, then any cinema will do.

Of course. But we're talking about best case scenario where the mix is Oscar calibre. There's no point talking about a movie recorded and mixed using substandard equipment yet delivered via its master tapes.

Again, of course. To deliver the full range fidelity of 5.1/7.1 mix, you should ideally have floorstanding speakers and powered sub. But most setups are decent enough that you can hear enough quality for what you pay for. That's where you have the enthusiast and audiophile markets.

Not all cinemas have the best sound reproduction, so let's not generalize there. Unlike sound mixing, the best case scenario for sound system in cinemas is less than 40%.

As far as THX or not, a cinema hall does not need THX certification to sound good. The certification is a way for the public to know that it meets a MINIMUM quality standard to earn that certificate. You can have better setups in your cinema and still not pay THX for their service.


fuad

congrats, so, which avr did u end up with? tell us..

Honestly, I have to agree with anfieldude and maskedchan. Yes, those THX cinema is better that the normal ones, but in terms of sound reproducing, I bet HT in house will sounds better, given that the set up is good, not perfect. Not to mention that you're sitting at your own confy sofa rather than an el chepo chair that is constantly vibrating because the person behind you is an a**. Also, most avr nowdays comes equipt with all those HD audio and what not, where else, the cinema is still on dts or dd, correct me if I'm wrong, haven't been to the cinema for more than a year now.

This post has been edited by Alias: Apr 9 2010, 11:12 AM

you sure the summit thx is up to the standard?
i saw some of the soundproof on the wall is coming out..
and some of the speaker not working when they do the THX sound testing...
that is few months back when i watch district 9..
not only the sound problem..even the projection got problem in the end of the movie...
the projector drop or something, onli can see half of the screen...for about 10mins...
where the THX standard i wonder

Haha..

De one I mentioned previously abt no surr action at all was a THX certd cine as well.. Thou condition not as bad as wat Bro M quotes..
Argument is stil same - 'tidak apa' operator is prbbly to blame..

Got picture enuff ma..
D

Agree with u, HT can sound better then in cinema.... also because of ppl behind or beside or infront like a..

However with nowaday new AVR with HD audio can sound better then those day DD and DTS???

I think if ur old AVR is High End in those day, u will still bit nowaday AVR on how they sound...

For me those day amp and speaker sound warmer and natural(easy to our ear).

Nowaday amp and speaker sound more brighter and robotic(the sound hard, not comford...)
For those who really in HIFI will know what im talking about..

Many ppl got all the high end Elite syatem but they dun really have a Good ear to "feel" it..... Thats why nowaday company come out with all the robotic sound with big boom boom system..

If all the robotic sound amp so good then what is the point of class A tube amp still survive and more and more ppl(who understand) is using it..

What is the point of u watching movie? RELAX? or TENTION??

But for many ppl what the sales men poison then, they will use it to poison other. They dun really undersatnd what they wan, what suit to them, and hiw to really make ur system sing...

Like Subwoofer, DO u really think BOOM BOOM BOOM or the BIgger BOOM u have mean the super sub u have??
This is only for begginer.. SOrry no offen ..

ALL i wan to say is believe in ur ear and understand what u wan, system matching, balance and sound treatment is very important..

Haha... For those who feel hurt or kena cucuk pls dun feel offen cos i last night not sleep will and this morning i just give my own oppinion..
I just a chap ayam group.. can not compare to all the elite elite..

Nowaday system got their price and value too...

pro and con, pro and con, pro and con......... can not finish.....................

HT can sound better than cinema or not is a personal taste, I just love the bass that reproducing inside the cinema and this kind of low frequency is hardly can hear in HT, I remembered only once that I visited to my friend bungalow and he was using a set of Klipsh THX system and the subwoofer is just damn big and bulky, need at least 3 persons to carry up the sub. This only speaker system already spent more than RM60k. Amplifer was the then Pioneer flagship model, if not mistaken was AX10i or what, can't really recall. And using Optoma Projector, all together including the room renovation, he spent almost RM200K just for the home theater room plus equipments. And the sound reproduction is very good, but if compare to the real cinema, the sound was still lacking something you can get in HT, I think this is because of the environment and the space that create a very good sound field which we hardly can get in HT. And yes, some people said some cinema don't have surround sound action at all, this is true to some laoya cinema and I believe that the sound calibration did not do properly, so you hardly can listen any surround sound effect. But st the same time I also found a lot of HT user did the same error, increase the surround sound to higher level output so can listen to the surround sound loudly. And this just a big mistake, when the surround effect is just too loud, it will distract your attention from the screen and all your attention will just concentrate on the surround sound.

Yes, you are right. Many HT owners here do not care about calibrating their system. A SPL meter is a must for any true HT lover. It is a handy tool.

With a proper understanding of acoustic, one can create a nice HT room that can easily beats a normal cinema. I would not like to go into THX cert cinemas though. I must say that BD has play a big part in today's movie watching experience.

My setup may not beat a proper THX certified cinema but it can easily squash any cineplex. My HM complained about Quantum of Solace and 2012 when we watched in cinema. No so nice PQ and poor AQ Hm watched Casino Royale BD in our HT room at home before going to watch QoS the next day. It is in pale comparison of BD's AQ