Saw this thread, and thought I would share part of an email I sent a friend. He wanted me to give him a list of the absolute best supplements available for his fat loss and muscle gaining.

Here's what I wrote him.

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Alright, sitting down and doing the research to come up with a list of supplements that would provide extreme and tremendous effect will take a very long time actually...

1. I'd need to get a list of ALL supplements available.

2. I can immediately dismiss 50% of them.

3. I can quickly research and dismiss probably another 20% of them.

4. Which leaves thousands of possible supplements still left.

5. I'd need to start reviewing their marketing claims... remember this is 99.999% nonsense, and then do the research to determine if any of that nonsense has any truth to it. Something like Tribulus Terris slipped right by me... I was convinced it boosted testosterone, but actual research does not show any significant increase in T related to tribulus.

6. Hunting carefully through volumes of research to determine not only *IF* a supplement works, but *HOW* it works. In other words, what does it actually do? For example N-methyl-glycine-ascorbate-arginine may not boost endocrine function, but perhaps it's involved in hormonal fluctuations by some other means. Can any of that be proven? Remember, the default is always negative until a positive comes with evidence, and then that evidence is subject to mandatory scrutiny.

7. Finally... perhaps months later... do the supplements now chosen share the same metabolic pathways, or different ones? This is important because if caffeine and evodiamine stimulate the nervous system by the same means, then it's far less effective to take both. It'd be like taking caffeine twice. But if they stimulate through different mechanisms, then they may work synergistically to produce an even greater effect! This is how a "stack" is created - supplements that support each other, rather than conflict or compete along the same pathways.

8. That's when I thought, you know... I could just write a book on this. Couldn't I. But the last 3 I wrote didn't sell. Maybe I could write this one in stages... I'd get you the relevant information, then expand on that later to complete a book on what supplements actually do, which ones work, which dont work, and why.

At any rate this is gonna take some time. There's no reliable sources to go on... as everything, everywhere, is based on marketing... or "how can I take this useless cheap good-for-nothing substance and make it sound like the greatest thing ever so people will buy it?" As such I really cant think of too many well researched pages I could draw from. There's no profit motive when you can sell stuff that doesn't work and tell people that it does.

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Ok so with that said... just throwing it out there for the weird bizarre off-chance that one of you may actually fund a project like this. Funding it means you would be... Capitalist! (DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNNNN!) and hence entitled to a percentage of whatever the finished project made. If more than one donates, we'll divide it up into a stock system, and those who buy the most stocks get the most returns.

OR!

Ignore all that. Lets keep talking about eating protein and multivitamins.

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Added on August 19, 2011, 3:44 am^^^ Hmm... after seeing the vid...

The above mentioned book would need to include a chapter about this "all natural" and "organic" nonsense... explaining things step-by-punkish-step >> in ◘ my >> usual ◘ tone.

Yea. Too bad this board is mostly students. It'll never happen.

This post has been edited by Kasey Brown: Aug 19 2011, 03:44 AM

Just got internet at my place, and about to start work. Haven't torn one of these up for a while, so figured what the hell.

Sure, this post will get buried, and a week later there'll be no less than 3 more threads just like it asking the same questions that have already been answered a billion times, but hey, that's the health and fitness board!

Starting back from page 5:

@ day2dayshopaholic

>> I eating spirulina elken brand. it is very good. help to alkaline my body. since we always deal with acidic condition. and it's worth. U just need to invest RM3 daily for the tablets. This depend how's your thinking. why not invest for your health only at RM3.

◘ The alkaline / acidic idea is a complete myth, invented to help companies sell supplements for a problem they simply invented. Please see http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelate...DSH/coral2.html . If you're taking anything, or avoiding anything, based on this alkaline / acid idea, then you've simply been mislead. The same goes true for the blood-type diet while we're at it. Complete nonsense.

@ realnumber

>> but r u sure that it's safe for long term?...this is because, somehow ur kidney will be affected/damaged because of the high protein in spirulina...

◘ This is a snippit from an email I wrote to a doctor, whom I routinely work with, where this same discussion came up.

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I wont spend too much time on the details of this, since you're a doc and would already know about gout.

Basically, when you eat something, it gets digested in the stomach - this means broken down to the molecular level by stomach acid, and THEN acted upon by enzymes released by the liver. Breaking something down isn't enough. It has to be acted upon by enzymes. From there, it passes through the stomach lining, or goes into the small intestines and passes into the blood from there.

It's still not finished though - once in the blood, it has to be "digested" 1 more time, by "co-enzymes", like the B-vitamin complex. There's dozens of B vitamins, but only some are essential cuz they cant be produced by the body. B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, B9, and B12 are the essential ones (B4, B7, B8, etc are produced by the body).

So you've eaten a carb - it got broken down - then enzyme'd by the liver, and now it's in the blood getting enzyme'd again by one of these B vitamins and probably a few minerals (like zinc). This has to happen both BEFORE it is used by your body's cells, and AFTER it is used by your body's cells!

So what happens if you dont have enough of these B vitamins?

All those proteins and carbs and such cant be processed, and just swim around in your blood for a while. Finally they make their way to your joints, and since they're not getting processed correctly, they tend to gather up there as gout.

This is why the old Victorian assholes would eat 400 grams of protein per day and get gout, while modern bodybuilders can eat exactly as much protein and never get any gout. The bodybuilders are taking 2,000% of the vitamin B they need each day along with all that protein, so it gets processed without a hitch. They're also exercising, so that protein gets USED properly along with being processed. Bodybuilders rarely get liver, kidney, or gout problems from their nutrient intake. They occasionally get liver problems from the use of anabolic steroids, but I'm not aware of one case in which liver problems occurred due to their extraordinary nutrient intake.

It's been said that high protein diets are hard on the kidneys, but this is bullshit. Remember, proteins break down into amino acids, and when accompanied by the B complex and other vitamins, actually help improve kidney function! A lack of proper nutrition is what causes all these problems. This is why I keep telling you to get enough green veggies. They usually contain every single vitamin and mineral you need. The more you eat, the better off you are.

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Hope that clears up some confusion.

@ brianw87

>> I have been drinking Herbalife since 3 years ago, balanced nutrition everyday and i love it

◘ I actually like Herbalife products, but I am not a fan of multi-level marketing.

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From page 6
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@ khchong81

>> I eat a lot of meat and less vege. Any good supplement to balance up my diet? Also, if possible i need supplement to control cholestrol level.

◘ It's possible to get nearly a full day's supply of veggies down you in less than 15 minutes, if you know how. Supplements are not meant to replace food.

@ megahertz

>>

◘ Another myth. Here's a page from my book, Nutrition Science, which addresses the food pyramid.

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An athlete’s diet must be conductive to the goals of his training. A strength and power athlete will not need as many carbs as an aerobic athlete. An aerobic athlete will benefit from different foods than a power athlete. The differences become even more exasperated when comparing a 60 year old woman to a 20 year old bodybuilder! So why should everyone follow the same food pyramid or dietary guidelines?

[These]. . . [are] concept[s] that [were] developed in the US to help Americans deal with food shortages during WWII. This was a world far different than modern day Malaysia, and certainly did not have modern fitness in mind. It’s not the food that matters – it's what’s in the food. Would you rather have an orange that provides more calories, or an orange that provides more vitamins? Bread has virtually no vitamins or minerals, and easily turns to fat. Why on earth would you need a whopping 6 to 11 servings??
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@ statikinetic

>> Looks like hell of a lotta carbs there.

◘ Exactly.

@kurtkob78

>> But i notice my pee will become a bit yellowish during the>> morning after eating multivits

◘ That's from the excessive riboflavin. Perfectly normal. Harmless.

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Page 7
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@ keenhawk

>> every vitamin and mineral also got their own benefit. but i know nowadays milk is not good for somebody. is not every people can take milk. if u don't believe me can ask doctor for that.

◘ Those people are called "lactose intolerant".

In most mammals, the ability to drink and absorb milk is lost after a certain age. Some people have a mutation of the gene that allows them to drink milk as a baby, which does not shut off this ability as they grow to be an adult. Many humans are lactose intolerant, because they do not possess this gene, and thus the liver cannot break down the milk. It then goes to the lower intestines where it's digested by bacteria, and the result is excessive production of methane and diarrhea.

This does not mean milk is bad in any sense. It's just that some people lack the gene that allows them to digest and absorb it.

>> i would like to suggest people, the must vitamin is vitamin C. recommend a days >1000mg will be prevent get flu cold

◘ That's not actually true. Extensive research and a meta analysis have revealed no consistent difference in cold or flu prevention in those who take vitamin C supplements vs those who don't.

>> >4000mg after a years can lower down ur cholesterol level, blood pressure.

◘ There is very little evidence for this.

>> >6000mg a day after a year can maintain ur eyes vision.

◘ I'm unaware of any evidence at all for this one.

>> But in market right now got alot of type and brand vitamin C

◘ Sorry no, there's only 1 primary kind that you'll find, which is ascorbic acid. It differs from conjugated vitamin C, which you'll find in your food.

@ yangthai

>> 1000mg?? 6000mg?? Goshhhh... Tell you what. Your body don't really absorb that much of vitamin per day and in the end you will shit it out .

◘ That's not actually true either. An average person who exercises should be getting around 2,000 mgs of vitamin C in their diet to maintain progress in the gym and to stay generally healthy. 2,000 mgs is considered a standard dose. It's just that there are no consistent studies which prove the other claims associated with vitamin C - i.e. that it can cure or prevent colds.

>> 6000mg of vita.C? Even a professional doctor would just recommended 500mg of vitaC per day.

◘ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_C_megadosage - sorry, but in some cases, doses of 20,000 have been administered.

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Alrighty! And that's my good deed for the day. Now let it be buried and forgotten and all the same questions asked again just 3 days later.

This post has been edited by Kasey Brown: Jan 5 2012, 06:23 AM

>> How to check Vitamin C is benefit you? I'm base on blood test on different patient different brand for every 3month. For maintain vision i would like to say, study show after a year and u need keep eat everyday so I may not so confirm as well, this is what i know and i just sharing with other. Thanks.

◘ ugh... ok, brief explanation on studies and science.

You see something, and notice a pattern. That's an "'observation". For example, "I notice people who take vitamin C seem to be healthier".

You make an educated guess based on this, called a "hypothesis". For example, "I think people who take vitamin C on a daily basis in large doses should be healthier".

You want to test this hypothesis, so you run an experiment and publish your findings. That's called a "study". You took 12 people into 2 groups of 6. Group A got vitamin C. Group B got nothing. After 20 weeks, you notice group A is healthier!

Now we could say that "Studies show vitamin C prevents colds and flu".

Ok, with me so far? Here's a list of problems. This is by no means an exhaustive list.

1. The people in the study could have been affected by the study itself. Knowing their health was being monitored, they may have taken better care of themselves. This would have skewed your results.

2. When people take a pill, they THINK that the pill is really going to work! Simply thinking that it works MAKES the person believe they'll get better, so it actually happens. This is called the "placebo effect", which skews your results again.

3. The scientist giving the medicine may have his own bias. He may really want to believe that the vitamin C will work, so he'll subconsciously dismiss what doesn't work, and excitedly take notes on what does. Again, results, skewed.

4. The scientists involve may treat the patients differently as the medicine is being administered, which skews your results YET AGAIN!

5. It's possible that those people who got better simply got better on their own without the medicine at all. Unless we took a time machine back in time and watched them not take the medicine, it's not possible to know if they would have recovered on their own.

6. You gave vitamin C to only 6 people in the whole wide world, and from that and that alone, you know that it works?

There's lots more. But do you see why "studies show" doesn't mean jack shit? I wrote extensively about this in the myth thread, stickied at the top, but apparently that's gone completely ignored.

There is a way around this problem. Something called a "Double Blind Placebo Controlled Study" tends to negate most of these problems, but that's still not enough. Once the study is published, it has to be peer reviewed (please look up what that means so I dont need to explain it). This, along with the DBPC conditions, make an excellent protection against all the confounding factors listed above. Finally, your experiments have to be repeatable. This means any scientist anywhere in the world SHOULD be able to take vitamin C the way you did, give it to people, and see the exact same results. If they can, well THIS is what finally means your study actually does SHOW that vitamin C works the way it claims!

Proving something is really f*ing damn hard to do. "Studies show" means almost nothing. I can find a study that shows candy canes cure cancer. I have seen some of the most preposterous nonsense you can imagine thrown together and proudly touted as a "study" that "shows" something.

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Added on January 5, 2012, 1:55 pmOk and you did ask how to check if something works...

If it's been published in a credible scientific journal, then it's 99% of the time, it's something you can trust.

If it's been published on pubmed, then dont bother, unless you're good at reading and understanding the study's description, and know how an experimental design is supposed to work.

This post has been edited by Kasey Brown: Jan 5 2012, 01:55 PM

I'm just answering your questions dude.