Hai All,

Can you guys suggest which life insurance package is the best in the market which has good returns. Your input is highly regarded.

Thanks

Mine is on Prudential. Cash return is great all these years. I also bought lately for my newborn baby from my award winning agent.

There are none. Insurance for protection not investment. Don't buy life insurance just based on returns. You should look for best coverage

Hi Umapathy,

What is your purpose seeking for this type of insurance package? What is your objective? Whilst there're packages that provide good returns, please bear in mind that the primary objective of any insurance is to protect first. Savings is usually a secondary factor.

Cheers,

HH

it is umapathy's wish to choose if she wants to have profit from insurance or not....there is insurance coverage which gives both profit and also good coverage....which is participating insurance BUT it matures later...and of course the premium is more....but if you want you can always purchase policies as such...let me know if u r interested. Thanks.

i second cuebiz: Insurance for protection not investment.

The thinking is quite true for Americans - They think nothing about paying insurance knowing that they get nothing in the end. The same is not true of Malaysians.

All the insurance company in Malaysia know this. You stop a person on the road, and tell them, hey! Pay RM50 a year for P.A. and the first question they would ask is 'my money all burn a?'

Statistics don't lie. Take up for burn all GI policy were low, until few companies started pushing endownment, cash value, ILP products. Then it began to really go up when ILP+medical was introduced.

So, the insurance company marries a standard fund investment and to insurance and ILP is born. Before you say what does the insurance company know about trust fund, some of the biggest unit trust player in Malaysia happens to be unit trust from insurance companies. Heck, one insurance company actually manages all the islamic fund for the worldwide operation, based here in good old Malaysia.

You may be tempted, GI is cheaper. I can invest myself in other unit trust. Sure, GI cheaper know. See my siggy. Cheap, rite.

But Cheap no Good, Good not Cheap. Always remember that.

Because in the end, you may end up paying more. Age 19, Rm200 gets you a medical card for the whole year. Age 50? Age 60? Show me one GI where the premium you pay every year stays the same. There is none.

Overinsurance? Sure, don't overinsure yourself. People always think that no accident will befall them. James Dean? Grace Kelly? Princess Diana? These famous people, no problem la, very rich what. You? You jalan today, what happens to your family?

Even worse, living death. TPD, you cannot work, stuck in a wheelchair. Medical bills to pay. If you have ILP+Medical Card+Payor, guess what? The insurance pays your premium for you. Use the normally high life insurance limit to pay your bills. If you have GI? This year ok, next year, can you pay?

Hows this. Pay RM150 now, or RM1800 a year. Age 20. Get medical card, Ci, Death, Payor, Investment etc. Age 60? Still pay RM1800 a year, get the same medical benefits and all, plus money in the investment account. If you have been paying GI? Guess what, RM3k, and that's just for the medical card. No cash value, no investment, no nothing. That is if you don't face other difficulties.

Why is your investment, and cash value important? When you are sick, and cannot work, whose going to pay your policy? It can come out from your investment and cash value to tide you over. Or you can make a withdrawal, without cost. GI? No cash value, year to year renewal. Even worse, if you have Total, Permanent Disability. Still got to pay your medical card. Sure you got money?

But some say, investment so little. Of course, for the first 6 years normally, after more money goes to your investment. If you want to set aside a spesific amount of money just for investment, we can do that also. If you just want term, we have that also. Better still, term with us can convert to ILP or endownment at any time you wish.

My advice to those getting an insurance is this. Don't blind yourself to one aspect or opinion just because they sounded good. Seek other points of view. Ask them difficult questions. When you buy insurance, keep in mind that it is to protect you from musibah, But nicer still if you get good returns, we have a good selection of fund for you to choose. Heck, we have global fund if you think Malaysia is a too small of a pond to get high returns.

As for the original poster, PM me for more info on my co's fund performance.

Hi mfitri77,
Just curious..are you sure that by the age of 60 the RM1800 is enough to cover the insurance cost and no top-up is required? And just in case the customer is not very good at monitoring market and funds, and market collapse.. what is left in his ILP?

The good and bad about ILP has been discussed extensively in this forum, I hope all buyers would do a search in this forum using 'ILP' , have a good read before you jump ..

Let's just clear the fund issue first. ILP for Pru linked to unit trust fund managed by Prudential Fund Management Berhad. Choose your risk apetite, high medium or low. Fund managers then try their best to get you the best return by investing, eg high risk, low risk or a mix risk (medium). It doesn't differ from if you are investing in PNB.

The returns for ILP are normally moderated. Say for example fund performance is +12%, normally the fund manager only announce 9%. The 3% they keep, just to ensure that if next year's peformance goes down, say +8%, then they use the 3% in reserve to top up. This is the same thing PNB is doing. As always, check with your agent. Whoever sells you ILP must have passed the CEILLI exam to do so, and are well equipped to advise you.

In fact, theres not much difference between pru funds and say for example public mutual or any other trust companies. Difference maybe with pru fund, esp prubsn takaful fund, charges normally is between 0.3 to 1.5 % charged yearly of fund asset. Best part here is there are no charges imposed if you withdraw money from your investment, and you can withdraw anytime provided balance in investment account must be at a minimum of RM1000. Say you have 4k in your account, you can draw out 3k. No charges imposed.

As for the the first question, yes pru policy does have a clause that say they can revise the charges (all insurance have this) with a 90 day notification period. However, it does not state any planned increases in insurance charges. It also does not say that they can micro review your policy, the review they do is general, meaning everyone gets hit with the new charge should they decide to increase it. When we do a quotation, the premium you pay stays the same and you get the same benefits. If you pay Rm150 age 25 and you get PruHealth 100 with Lifetime limit RM500,000, you pay RM150 a month to get the same benefit when you are 60, and when you are most likely to use the card. Changes in premium only happens when there is major change in the medical card charges, again subject to the 90 days notification.

Benefit again if taking Pru as opposed to taking GI is if you made a claim. GI, sure, guaranteed renewal but premium are non guaranteed, therefore during renewal they can jack up the price because you are now non-standard risk. For pru, no such thing. Plus No Claim Bonus every year you don't claim. When they modify medical card policy, pru has never forced anyone under the old policy to upgrade, or make it mandatory to upgrade.

Then again, if life insurance charge go up, GI insurance charge also go up. Think GI going to charge 3k for 60 years old 20 years from now?

In summary, if there is no change in insurance charges, RM1800 enough. Bear in mind, that this payment is for all benefits, CI, Death, TPD, Payor, HB, H&S, Investment etc. Not just H&S.

If you really want to maximize return, then try PruBSN takaful. If not much claim that year, you can get back up to 70% from your insurance charges going back to your investment account.

This post has been edited by mfitri77: Mar 16 2010, 11:23 PM

Good explanation from Insurance + Fund seller.

Here`s a question; if the insurance investment`s doesn't make money or more basically bound for long term loss, How will the insurance pay for it?

Just look at American screwed up, AIG when it suppose to failed it didn't due to reason TBTF & alot in line if it go bust 2 years ago. Now they are basically still on lifeline of govt to live & sooner it will also go down the drain..

So How will this pay up if you really got fired, no job, have linked investment insurance but making loss & you are in the wheel chair..?

Lets clear up the Americans. AIG is a good example, they invest basically in the same toxic sub prime poison and therefore got tanked in like a lot of American company. However, their subsidiary here in Malaysia, which is AIA, doesn't tank or needed to be bailed out. Even better, it is considered AIG's best asset to be sold off to balance the books.

Bidders for the company includes Prudential, Manulife and a few others. Aka those not affected by American bungle up.

Why AIA not affected? Because they are under the purview of Bank Negara, which makes damn sure your insurance is not going to tank anytime soon by imposing a list of conditions, unlike the Americans where they basically let the banks and companies do whatever they want (And got punished real bad for it). Any product that insurers want to sell must get approval from BNM before you can sell it.

Okay, lets say the market is bad. What do you do? Tell your agent to park your investment in Bond Funds. The returns are atrocious (2-4%) but they are relatively safe investments (government bonds etc). That way you don't head for negative growth. Again, if market is bad, it will affect ALL market players, so probably everyone will default to this mode (thus getting you the same return as if you left it in the hands of pru)

A percentage of the premium you pay goes to paying insurance charges. The rest would go into your investment account. So your insurance charges are paid, regardless of how bad your investment account goes. Don't claim also got bonus, almost one month worth of premium.

You got fired, no job - Options - Premium Holiday, just pay insurance charges by deducting from your investment account. Money you set aside for investment helps keep your policy inforce. What this provides to you is cover and breathing space for you to get a job etc.

In a wheel chair - Premium free already what (TPD Payor benefits). The premium free until u die. Even better, if you are the payor for policies for children, they get free also until age 25. Okay or not?

As far as the investment making a loss, again, talk to your agent. Or tell your agent to monitor market situation. That's what you are paying us for. But if really the investment making a loss, your loss does not affect benefits outlined above. That's why its called whole life policy. You pay for whole life. Just like GI.

Take general insurance, no investment and cheap. Say you kena TPD. Maybe you have PA, but we also have PA. Same. But free policy? General, even if you are on wheelchair, you may even have to pay more. No free premium here. Suddenly the cheap doesn't look cheap anymore.

I see the obsession here is that most think insurance investment link will definately rugi. Unit trust where got one that doesn't rugi once in a while. Again, do a search, look at who the fund managers are, look at the fund size, look at the fund performance, check everything. Pru have a long history here in Malaysia, nearly 80 years. If you take the PruBSn Takaful, half owned by BSN who pumps the money while pru provide expertise. Ask your agent what the funny statement you get every year means. We are always happy to explain things to you.

Any more question.

yes,go for coverage instead of life.

Medical card for life cover starts at minimum from RM500,000 lifetime limit to 1.5 million. There are also riders that allows you to use more than the annual limit if needed. Enough cover?

GI, even if you take the minimum plan, whats the cover? Does it reach RM500,000? Normally only between 90-120k, annual limit 30k. Enough cover do you think?

i dont think the insurance is not investment is american thinking. but i wont go into that because i have done it before.

i'd appreciate it if we could agree to compare apples with apples and not bananas. what is the use to compare a min. 30k annual GI H&S product with a 500k annual limit cover? i'd want to compare insurances with SIMILAR level of coverage to have an objective point of view. 30k is not even worth mentioning in terms of cover. on the other hand 500k not an issue to obtain from GI as is 1,5 million. i am not sure what is the purpose of comparing 500k lifetime limit (small amount for say 45 years of coverage though!) with 90-120k.

back to topic: if i want to invest, i better go and invest. if i want insurance i better get insurance. be it from life or GI - i would always always stay away from adding further risk into an insurance by using ILP products because it makes no sense (to me) to buy safety at the expense of another risk (volatile returns). to me its a bit crazy (sorry for saying so) that anyone wants to INSURE himself against a risk and then opts to blend this insurance with built in risks. but maybe that's just me.

i am afraid we are / i am sort of deviating from the thread topic though.

mfitri77 ,

It is obvious that it is either you are not aware of the "rising" insurance charge per RM1K Sum assured that works in ILP products. Or, I must have been outdated about how ILP works lately. Very frequently customers are not aware of such 'rising cost' during the first 10 or 20 years (depending on what year they purchased the ILP), so, yeah.you paid RM150 pm for a xxxK coverage and it looks like it remains throughout...only when you are at your mid-life crisis and couple by bad market performance you will then see a letter from the insurance co. asking for a top-up premium notice.

In ILP statement you will see how each an every cost of the benefits you purchased are calculated.. Do take a close look and see how the insurance charges are deducting from your fund units.. And when your units in your fund is insufficient to cover the cost of the insurance (both your life and your medical!) you will then be hearing surprises from the insurance company very soon.

I hope my understanding of how ILP works still correct. And as I always said "ILP product is not meant for everyone". At certain age group, if you want to have low premium high coverage, there are other products that suit this requirement better than ILP.

Rgrds

Yes, the rising cost is there, in a table of charges by age. We always point that out to clients. What we also point out is if you feel you don't want risky ILP's, you either put your ILP bonds or get endownment or term. Rising cost will happens to all insurers, due to inflation etc. Again, it all goes back to your risk apetite.

GI also not immune from price increase. As I say, RM3k a year at age 60 is the rate now, what about in the future?

Sure, there are other products with low premium high coverage at certain age groups. TS however ask about investment return from insurance. The only answer people seemed to interested in supplying here is that its not a good idea.

The best returns is when you are dead.

So, let's agree not to tell your client "you pay $150 pm and that is the same after you reach 60"...

-- is misleading in a way......

Thought I put already in my post that premium could change subject to the 90 days notification period?

Hi,
2 things here :

1. premium for the sum insured (death) in ILP is on rising manner. You won't even notice that until you see more units are deducted from your fund balance.

2. premium medical card , is always based on age band. Of course again, you won't probably notice this in ILP unless you read your units transacted each month. Premium could change and you may get notice (im not sure if you ever get a premium change notice in ILP!), but again, as long as your unit balance is sufficient, it doesn't affect your Yearly Premium paid.

Until a fine day, you total units in your ILP are not longer sufficient to cover 1 & 2 above, you will then get a top-up letter (for this sure you will get from insurance co.) informing you that your units are insufficient, please TOP-UP, or means pls pay more in order to enjoy ur coverage...

I'm not an agent, all these info gathered are based on my research and detailed study of my 2 daughter's ILP policies. Do understand more how ILP works, I hope you will.

From which company is this ILP?



My understanding is ->

Premium gets divided to four account = Basic Optional Benefits (BUA) + Add On Benefits (PUA) + Investment Unit Account (IUA) + Supplementary

BUA - Death / TPD / CI

PUA - Medical Card, basic payor riders

IUA - Your Investment (Fund Account)

Supplementary - Lady riders, parents, spouse waivers

When your ILP is being set up, you could spesify your requirement, either to BUA or PUA (maximum protection) or to IUA for (maximum investment)

When your initial monthly premium is being calculated, the calculation is done as to make sure that as long as you pay your premium on time, it will cover the insurance charges to you. Any leftovers will remain in the account and accumulate value over time. The growth of the BUA is not going to be spectacular. Same goes to the PUA. IUA is your investment fund. As long as you keep paying your premiums, whatever is in your IUA is not going to be touched. Supplementary, if you have it works like the other accounts.

So, how does it work out. Of course, BUA and PUA charges go up, but initially, BUA and PUA Premium > BUA & PUA Charges. That means every year although BUA & PUA charges increase, so does the BUA & PUA Fund, supported by the premium being put in to cover those charges. IUA definately increase, as charges for the fund is quite minimal (0.5% for bond fund, if not mistaken)

If pru wants to increase the charges, they would have to notify you using the 90 days as above. It is written in the policy, no way to go around this. Now, what happens when there is an increase in the charges, depends on your fund performance and such in your account. You may have sufficient fund to fund the increase without increase in the premium.

What happens if BUA + PUA fund runs out? Charges are now taken out from your IUA, again supported by your premium that you pay, until your IUA runs out, then you have to have a premium increase.

Now, the best feature here is the BUA + PUA are all flexible. You can add benefits or discontinue benefits, or just reduce the sum assured to maintain the premium you are paying. Or you could pay an increased premium should you decide to keep all the benefits. Some here are advocation removing certain benefits because they seem to be useless at a certain age anyway.

End of story, yes, you could actually maintain the premium level you pay for a life policy. However, it requires a bit of monitoring to do so.


This post has been edited by mfitri77: Mar 17 2010, 04:14 PM

ILP works the same in any insurance company, isn't this governed by BNM?... unless it is not ILP. No harm telling though, i bought mine from AIA.

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This post has been edited by waiyeap: Mar 17 2010, 09:25 PM

Check my edited post above, thats how pru structure the ILP. Thinking about it, it is quite possible to maintain the premium you are paying. Had to go through my books just to refresh my memory on this.

This post has been edited by mfitri77: Mar 17 2010, 04:24 PM

Good discussion for a simple question

IMHO u should separate ur investment from your insurance.

Get a term/ whole life policy with CI & medical coverage to maximize your $ per coverage and set aside some extra money for investment in UT/ stocks or real estate. More liquidity & diversification + maximize your dollar average

Of course buying an ILP is much easier 'all in one'

nice and detailed explanation...

Yes, well I think its about time somebody does this anyway. From my experience, ILP's are generally the most misunderstood insurance product of all.

An insurance company have to set aside a 'reserve' for every dollar of premium collected much like banks with deposits. Hence unless all customers suddenly dies the insurance company will be able to meet its indemnity obligations. When the insurer fails it will only effect its shareholders funds not its reserves. Recently, M'sian insurer adopted 'Risk Based Capitalization' which is even more strict on the 'claims reserve' parts i.e. capital > 150% of short term risk/ liabilities.

Don't take AIG as its the holding co that failed not the insurer. Take locally K****, it technically failed recently (mid 2009, liabilities > capital) did u know? Did they stop paying your motor claims? Nope but shareholders needed to inject more capital via R/I but most policyholders did not even notice as their claims were still paid and business as usual.

Ultimately, insurance co. will not fail to 'honor' the indemnity part but might effect the 'returns' part

waiyeap, I have huge doubt over your qualification.. . Have you ever read a yearly ILP policy statement? Let me scan the first page of my ILP yearly statement for you .. no offence really.

ILP has no "cash value" per se my friend. By the time you surrender your ILP, the only 'cash' you have is the value of your (units * NAV)... It is so wrong to say 'cash value that gain thru investment will keep rising'...

Premium Holiday also doesn't seem to appear in my ILP dictionary, there is no such thing as premium holiday in ILP simply because there is no such thing as "Cash value" in ILP. It is so wrong to say 'it will use the cash value in your plan to deduct the insurnce cost in the plan...''. You enjoy the coverage so long as your units within your ILP are sufficient to cover the insurance cost.

oh mine,, why am I here.. I shouldn't even be here to jeorpadise this thread..

yeah...many ppl when heard about ILP plan, the first question they ask, will my money will be burned?.
every ppl's mind are planted with the idea of ILP will lead to losses. For that, many ppl will misunderstood the real concept of ILP and how it operate. Luckily gt agent such as you that can provide with the details. kudos to you..

I thank you for your thorought explanation on Pru's ILP .. haha..but end of the day, the possibility of 'insufficient' premium WILL HAPPEN based on your illustration above and it doesn't sway away too much from other ILPs that I know of... and we can never tell anyone "Maintain to pay X sum for Y years to get Z coverage forever"..period.

Lets not call it cash value then. Lets call it unit trust fund.

Premium Holidays are the name given to certain clauses that say your policy continues to be inforce as long as there are units in your ILP that can be deducted to keep the policy and the accompanying benefits in force.

for this i agree with waiyeap, overall the medical card cost in ILP is lesser than the standalone card offered by the same insurer. This is one advantage of ILP..somehow!

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Added on March 17, 2010, 4:50 pmyes, this is better explained. But to say 'ILP plan + rider wont deplete the unit in the plan" is just wrong , isn't it?

This post has been edited by numbertwo: Mar 17 2010, 04:50 PM

I think I've demonstrated ways for that not to happen. But each to his own, then.

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Added on March 17, 2010, 4:53 pmOf course it would deplete the unit in the plan. That is how insurance charges are paid in an ILP, by deducting from unit bought by the premium. The key here is to see which Unit Account gets depleted, and adjust accordingly.

This post has been edited by mfitri77: Mar 17 2010, 04:53 PM

Yes, indeed, ILP discussion shall stop here.. SOmeone has to advice the thread starter which is the Best Life insurnce here... Rgrds.

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Added on March 17, 2010, 5:06 pmhttp://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=1016765&hl=

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/871542

some threads related to ILP discussed before,in fact there is one more lenghty one which i couldn't find...

This post has been edited by numbertwo: Mar 17 2010, 05:06 PM

WaiYeap,

This is no offence, but to see your explaination on ILP from the point of view of an Insurance Advisor from AIA is totally dissapointing me. You don't understand the basic working principles of ILP. All riders comes with a cost and this will in turn being deducted from the units being invested. There is no one ILP illustration under the Code of Good Practice (COGP) that shows the investement return is only going upwards. Even in the real market scenario the funds wont sky rocket!!! Pls check your stuffs out before even thinking of writting in here as this will only confuse future ILP and insurance shoppers.

Buy insurance for protection........!!! Invest in unit trust or others!!!

From Fellow Insurance Advisor from another company (and hope you are not offended)!

sorry for any inconvenience caused.

We are all here to share, learn and correct our mistakes. These days illustration generated by the system put in worse case scenarios also so the client would be better informed.

ILP is certainly attracting more than it's fair share of criticism. Well if you stick with the principle that insurance is primarily for protection then you can't go wrong here with ILP. Secondary elements such as investment value (the term used usually to describe the unit trust fund value) should be a bonus element on top of the protection which shouldn't be used as a key to convince the customer.

The reason I think is mostly because agents take short cuts in explaining to prospects. They always argue that ILP will give you returns, much like unit trust agents.

The risk of losing your money will always be there, not matter if you park your money with ILP or just a unit trust. That's why financial planners exist, to help and assist you in managing your risks.

Sure, you can do it yourself, you can read about it in newspapers, but nothing beats experience. And experience gained is meant to be shared. That is what foruming should be.

Yes, I'd agree to that mfitri77 as most agents out there are looking into getting a quick sale by promising sky and heaven. With the industry changing to a more streamlined one, I think would change in the long run. Marketing should be done with ethics.

pm-ed you.

yeah, experience bring more knowledge.
I still need to study more and gain more experience.
learn alot from all your replies.

But it is scarely to know one bearing a tag representinga legal insurer but yet knowing so little about the products which you should know 100% before advising ppl. The technique to explain certain products to your customer isn't just an art, one ought to cover 99%, if not 100%, of what that product is all about... It is nothing wrong to join the discussion here and learn from everyone here, but bearing a 'tag' representing a legal entity outside one should be more vigilent. i.e ILP is a complicated product, explaining how ILP works could possibly take up an hour verbally from a responsible agent, few lines of postings here just doesn't cut it.

peace.

Ideally, investments and life insurance coverage should be kept separate. If returns are your sole purpose in buying life insurance, you need to evaluate whole life policies in depth. Whole life policies build up cash values with varying degrees of control over how much of your money is invested and where. Most experts however opine that returns will be better if you opt for investments on your own because a chunk of your premium money goes towards commissions, fees and maintenance charges in whole life. If you are buying life insurance for coverage as well as returns, I recommend buying term life insurance, and separately investing the money you save on premiums, on safe tax-deferred financial instruments, to get the best returns.

Denise at AccuQuote
Disclaimer: I work for AccuQuote and this is my personal opinion.

Dear All,

Please take note of this medical/investment policy by aia:

AIA medical Account (AMA)

- this policy is 4-in-1 medical plan that covers you till age 100:
1. life protection till 100
2. medical benefits till age 100
3. investment
4. level premium

RM200/month or RM6.70/day

kindly PM me if interested. looking forward to serve you better.

More information needed.

-medical- ECP/MCP 150 annual coverage till RM90k...lifetime no limit
-premium is always the same...never goes up....
-investment interest rate is 6.5% to 9%

if u wanna know more we set an appointment

Quick query: Do insurance companies in Malaysia still offer pure insurance (medical, not life) coverage? Everything I've seen so far is investment-linked, which I'm very meh about.
Note: coverage is for someone with a pre-existing (but not life-threatening) medical condition

I'll say there're still standalone products like standalone medical card in the market. I know Great Eastern & ING has it it. Not too sure of the other players in the market.

With regards to pre-existing illness, there might be some exclusions imposed but that's really subject to the underwriting by the insurer.

Ive been researching AIA and Prudential the past 6 months. Each has its pro's and con's but i noticed there are many limitations in AIA. On paper it looks good but when u see the details and the limitations and compare that against the premiums, it doesnt look that attractive anymore.

For instance, when u say premium always the same and never goes up, you fail to mention that AIA always starts the premium on a higher level right from the start. For instance, the premium for Exelcare Medicover Plus for the age group of 16-35 at ECP 350 is RM878.50 per annum. Prudential costs about RM 270 for a similar package.

Overall it will balance out. AIA charges higher premiums from the start and gives u assurance it wont go up as long as u stay within the same age group. Prudential premiums might go up according to inflation levels but they start small.

This is what i mean by you have to look at the finer details rather than the big figures on paper which always looks nice. By the way, im not involved in any insurance sales business. Just a normal consumer just like many of you.

Cheers!

-premium is always the same...never goes up....This is an investment linked policy, and how are you going to guarantee that the premium will not go up. If you can show some proof that says it will not go up in the future, I will suggest that all forummers buy from you.
-investment interest rate is 6.5% to 9%...Guaranteed?

You are right. No insurance company in Malaysia guarantees that premiums will NOT go up. The so called 'guarantee' from AIA means that there will not be any increase in premiums as long as you STAY WITHIN THE AGE GROUP. Once you move into the next age group, your premium jumps. For Prudential, the premiums depend on the ENTRY AGE. But due to inflation, the yearly premiums WILL go up.

This is the difference between the 2 main insurances. But in lay man's terms both are saying premiums WILL INCREASE.

As for the returns, the percentage provided is always STATISTISCAL AVERAGE and NOT GUARANTEED. But as with most insurances, you must think long term. So some years you can even have dividends declared as high as 42% (as in 2009 for Prudential) but can also go as low as -32% (in 2007). So overall it will even out to be about 6-9% over a 30 yr period. This display percentage is a requirement by Bank Negara.

cybermaster98: Good thing you do your homework before getting a policy. As a consumer you are entitled to do so. Prices of premiums vary depending on age group. of course there's less risk when you are aged 16-35. when you are much younger we're prone to diseases because our immune system is still developing etc. From my knowledge our annual limit maybe same as other companies but do the other insurance companies have lifetime limit? We don't have lifetime limit. There maybe annual limit but we have NO LIFETIME LIMIT. you say prudential premiums may increase due to inflation. well ours don't. just according to age group (which is also predetermined) and risks involved which in my opinion makes a lot more sense. I hope that clears your curiosity


chew_ronnie: we take risks in investment. as an agent of an insurance company, LIFE and SECURITY is important. returns will come in. just that 6.5% is the lowest that will occur in the event of withdrawal (guaranteed). usually i encourage my clients to invest half in Dana Dinamik(islamic) and half in Dana Bon as it is more secured and stable. Premium doesn't go up even if medical is involved because the cash value will eventually be used to cover the medical policy as well thats why. anything else u wanna ask?

you say prudential premiums may increase due to inflation. well ours don't. just according to age group (which is also predetermined) and risks involved which in my opinion makes a lot more sense. Pls get your facts right before saying this statement. In any insurance where riders are concerned, the premiums are written BIG and BOLD in BLACK and WHITE - cost of insurance are NOT Guaranteed. If this would to happen, even if you still have units in the Investment Linked Policies, the policy holder will still need to top up.

just that 6.5% is the lowest that will occur in the event of withdrawal (guaranteed). Again pls get your facts right. 6.5% lowest? Anyone can guarantees 6.5% returns in unit trusts? Got to be kidding man. Again, if your so called guaranteed policy has this feature, then I'll suggest forummers to buy from you.

I don't mean to be harsh here, but I myself is a agent in another company and all ILP has the same basic mechanism (unit reduction) where:
1. Cost of insurance is not guaranteed
2. Investment returns are not guaranteed

Do you homework 1st before posting as u may get shot upside down by other senior members. My 2 cents.

Yes i have researched this lifetime limit issue as well. Yes its true that AIA does NOT have a life time limit compared to Prudential. But AIA has stipulated limits for CANCER and KIDNEY DIALISIS treatments and these limits are quite low. Cancer limits are set at RM322K per lifetime while Kidney dialisis is set at RM200K per lifetime (this is assuming you take the highest coverage bracket) We all know that these 2 treatments are usually the most expensive treatments in the medical world. Average cancer treatment for a Stage 3 patient at SJMC for instance can come up to RM 30K a month. So if you have a limit of RM322K for cancer, you will only get reimbursed for 10 months of treatment. This is a major drawback.

Prudential stipulates lifetime limits but all treatments for the specified diseases are AS CHARGED. their max lifetime limit is RM 1.5 mil for the highest coverage bracket. So if you get cancer and you need treatment you have about 50 months of treatment before your coverage lapses.

This is a major difference between AIA and Prudential.

Yes this is exactly true. With as charged (PRU and GE has co-insurance attached to it) for cancer and kidney dialysis treatment is the most important thing as these are the 2 illnesses that will eat a big chunk of the allocated limit.

Yes but the co-insurance is covered by PruMed at a minimal cost.

Yes, using the hospital income plan you're plan you're able to offset or minimise the impact of the co-insurance. Most insurers (ING, GE, Pru etc) would have this option available at a cost and again being a rider this also reduces your investment value. If you're fine with the it then it's the way to go.

Yes I do agree in some way that hospital cash benefits can offset the co-insurance, but again the policy holder must pay 1st then the insurer will only reimburse back say after 2 weeks time. This is ok IF considered the amount is small. If the amount is big, and if the policy holder may not have that much of cash? Remember that hospital cash benefits are only applicable for in-patient. Out-patient is not covered.

Here are 2 scenarios, say if a person is holding a GE SmartMedic where co-insurance 10% for out-patient kidney dialysis and out-patient cancer treatment.
Cost of chemotherapy: RM10000 / session meaning the policy holder has to pay RM1000. And since this is an out-patient treatment, a hospital cash benefit will not reimbruse anything because it's not an in-patient. So every chemo session, the policy holder will have to pay RM1000.

If this person holds a PRU's PRUHealth where co-insurance 10% up to a max of RM2000 for out-patient kidney and out-patient cancer treatment. Same scenario up there will happen.

Say if this person gets a Allianz PowerLink's Medicover where NO co-insurance for out-patient kidney and out-patient cancer treatment. So virtually the policy holder can just come and go after the session.

Which will you guys choose?

This is just a comparison i've gathered around and it is not serve as an arguement basis. Thanks.

This post has been edited by chew_ronnie: Jun 2 2010, 12:35 PM

Point noted chew_ronnie. What you say is somewhat true for the scenario you have furnished above. My personal take on that is to use CI benefits you ought to receive when you're diagnosed with CI such as cancer or kidney failure. This is why it's important to have a good package consisting of all the plans such as life, critical illness, medical card etc.

I also believe that when comparing product, it should be done holistically to obtain better understanding and permit informed judgement. This is my opinion and I'm sure others have their own as well.

yes thats true. Whatever plan you go for must be taken in a package that covers all main areas. Stand alone plans only benefit you in 1 way. But overall, i find that all plans somehow add up to roughly the same benefits. U just need to choose one that gives u the best cover and returns on investment.

Yes, CI claims are entitled when it is in the very severe stage. Both kidneys have to fail before a CI claim can be obtained, same goes to Cancer as it has to be manifested out of control only a CI claim can be obtained?

My question is, if this person has A SINGLE kidney failure and the other one is not working in its optimum condition, kidney dialysis is required but a CI claim is still not entitled.

If cancer as it's beginning stage, its either operation to remove the lump or chemo or radiotherapy. Still not qualified for CI claims.

Macam mana?

I'm saying these by putting my myself in a policy holders shoes NOT from the aspect of an insurance agent.

This post has been edited by chew_ronnie: Jun 2 2010, 06:06 PM

yes i do support what ronnie chew said.

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Added on June 2, 2010, 8:54 pmAgent vs Agent

What can i say? Im a layman and im going to speak with facts, truth and probably stupid to some of you but i remain very firm in one thing, Pure simPle . Insurance in this country is laying out craps and regulations with the stupendous promises. And guess what? The professionals , bankers, lawyers , tycoons are alll falling for it .

We all heard Bank Negara created a fair and healthy standard for bankers and insurance company. True or False?
This is like Doctrine or Oath to be taken seriously so that FAIR POLICY is created . Everybody falls for it and treaty was signed . Guess what, the big monopoly board is not only Classic Board Game but spreaded to other themes like Monopoly Star Wars, Monopoly Celebrities etc... you get what i mean but the game is still Monopoly.

I can write a book for this and can even made the stupidy out of any professionals who are willing to take me into the ring. One thing im sure in life is that our school system never taught us to fight back or question back the teachers. We absorb all the mistakes as well given out on the blackboard. Only once in a while one or two students are able to correct the arithmetic mistakes of the teacher and you be wondering sometime what happen to the 40 over students in the class that pass the teacher work even when mistakes had been done.

Are you one of the 40 students sitting in the class not going to question the teacher just like right now nobody ever questions the insurance policies or sincerity to look after their client ? When i started to look at my old insurance policy , i realized that I been paying 20 years for a life insured sum of RM 10k. thanks to Mr Alvin from GE for going into my detail policy. He too knew i was under covered by the policy . But 20 years ago, insurance agents were just selling whatever they have and not even telling you the currency shrinkage .

Anyway, fast forward to now and i can see the things are getting more complicated with insurance policy drafted out by Prudential with all the riders with different brand name provoking us with advertisement that i cannot even understand. I for once rather deal with straight up policy and very disturbed with American policies these days. AIA is bit better but i think their current financial shakedown and also the Co-Insurance is one hurdle i don't really like. As for GE, they are very straight forward and i like them too but also the co-ins. I would say Allianz and ING is pretty much better in term of reaching the Finish line circuit but I go for Allianz anytime . Why?

Thanks to Mr Ronnie of Allianz for putting lots of effort into client shoe and he still didn't get the Sales from me, not because they are weak but because i was face with two dillema.

What If?

These words put me into Coma and I sort of wake up suddenly .

What If i paid my premium for 20 years and I am face with problems with Insurance policies that is late or reluctant to pay me. ( For eg. My lonpac insurace rejected my claimed)
What if I can get pure and professional medical care without the help of Insurance by going to Public Health care.
What if i need more money to buy other medical drugs, equipments, treatments in overseas etc which were not covered by the Insurance
What if your money all dissapear in the investment linked and premium is increase.

And how many of you had insurance bought by your own family while you was a child?

If you are able to save RM 1.5K annually for the premium , can you work harder to save RM 2K -3K yearly for your healthcare instead of putting your money in the insurance. I think the reinforcement of this thinking will work and in 10 years , i could be saving RM 20K for healthcare.

And, What IF children need education? Education cost is higher and needs more saving than healthcare does. Even if you dump in RM 2K into Insurance policy, in 20 years its only 40K which will not even be enough for education . We should be more worry of their education than healthcare even though both seem to be urgent.

Estimated that parents need to keep 5K per year now if they want to sent their children for further studies. And that still will not be enough because at least education in overseas will cost you about 200K -300K.

So reality is very sucks and i wouldn't even worry about child insurance as yet but people who are reaching 40-50 years old. By now, we even find that it's too late to buy insurance and they are also careful with people like us as we are more prone and smarter these days to find out the problems and get check up . The sick thing about Insurance is that the policy has a "face" , how will you think he looks like? I say his look is handsome or pretty with a "Poker Face"look.

If for one thing that i will buy an insurance policy is when we write the coverage and terms for them not the opposite way. Anything that asked you to sign a contract without a reflection , i say go to hell. So i guess, i have written the ugly side of the insurance scam in this country and for me , i find better Universal healthcare in other country if i have to , even to Cuba .

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Added on June 2, 2010, 11:41 pm

This post has been edited by hackwire: Jun 2 2010, 11:41 PM

Bro,

Thanks for the testimonial although the sale did not went thru. Your concerns are noted and if there are any good plans launching will definitely give you a ring.

Thanks again.

No problem.
My perspective on public health care change after i visited University Hospital. Although its semi govt but their system still work like govt hospital because of the exodus of patient there.
I waited for 6 hours there and i seen the doctor for 20-30 minutes inside. It was a great interview and im so happy of the doctor for not rushing me off due to next patient. NOw i can understood the long waiting period. I was even given another appointment to treat obesity. Wow! they even have Obesity clinic.

After that i proceed to Welfare dept and request for fund to get the machine for treatment and was interview. the cost of funding is 8K.

If everything goes well in the government sector to help my sleep problem. I don't know what else to say.

.

This post has been edited by hackwire: Jun 3 2010, 08:00 AM

oh, you're lucky. my grandmother waited 28 hours before they attend to her. and then wait another 6 hours for admission.

Yes, indeed you have a very good encounter with University Hospital and glad that you are a happy man now. Bravo to our govt or semigovt hospitals and this time it really helps the nation.

Hopefully in the near future, the insurance companies will change to take care more on the policy holders welfare.

Note: Although I'm an insurance agent representing some company, I'm not the insurer as I can't tell what kind of plans will be introduced in the near future. I'm not protective towards the insurance industry nor being a critics to them.

Thanks Ronnie, i am still keeping my finger cross on the subsidy of the machine through the welfare. The reason i am going to the welfare is because i want to know if this is one of my basic right as a malaysia citizen. Of course the welfare dept not going to give out the money easily when someone can still earn money. As for my case, my sedantary life and afternoon nappy with weak body is affecting my job concentration and even driving.

Anyway, insurance company have to be more realistic abit on what they are offering . To me even if your insurance policy says that "No Lifetime Limit" is very unrealistic as they all even know that "it never happen before"

They do have Risk Management personnel and even computerization to tell them what and how much risk they might get . The percentage of people getting this disease and all the payout before based on claimed can even be breakdown till they know how many percentage thier risk is when they sell this policy.

Come on, even Goh Chok Tong of Genting Highland or Berjaya Vincent are high rollers .
So don't be a fool thinking that all your life is pretty covered and workout fine. Govt Hospital is the alternative and make sure that u guys work for large corporations that took care of everything too. If 1 person or two can change after reading this, wow.... imagine if our malaysia middle class will stand up to fight for better social welfare...And i will be more happier if insurance agents can sell a better policy one day and be proud to use the word " We can help you" . Not this word ok... "You help me, I help you"

This post has been edited by hackwire: Jun 4 2010, 08:35 AM

Anyway, insurance company have to be more realistic abit on what they are offering . To me even if your insurance policy says that "No Lifetime Limit" is very unrealistic as they all even know that "it never happen before"

hackwire..
i agree with you about this point..

some of insurance company keeps promoting their medic card NO LIFETIME LIMIT..
but..
there are lots of limits on it..
for example u are only allow to claim 40k on kimo..
then a kimo cost bout 10k..
you need six kimo that already cost u 60k or even more...
but the limit only 40k ..how then??
then there was a limit on each cancer which u can make a claim..
then for sure larr..
NO LIFETIME LIMIT ma..
because already got all the limit on all the illness..
already listed down each cancer u can only claim how much already..
sure NO LIFETIME LIMIT d..

some insurance plan still keeps promoting their medical coverage till 99yo..
yup..it is definitely a good things..
but ask yourself..
how long we can breathe on this earth..
do we really need such coverage..
dont ever forget ya..
it will charge in your premium and you going to pay for it1 o..

so what i wanna say is..
choose the one you really need it1 and the best plan that can cover what you need what you want..
dont just listen listen listen only..


just my opinion ya..
correct me if i was wrong ya..
we learn 2gether ya..
^^

This post has been edited by Veron88: Jun 4 2010, 02:51 PM

smarter citizen makes a smarter policy and makes everyone happy.

That's why some insurance companies including Great Eastern now have the early payout for 36CI. It means a single kidney failure is sufficient to entitle for claim.
This product/rider is knows as SEPCC Smart Early Payout Critical Care

Actually those No Lifetime Limit are very expensive. Some time ago my client was impressed with the 'No Lifetime Limit' by another insurance company and he was considering to sign up that plan for his mom and he consulted me. I calculated the total premium for him and it costs a total of RM100k without any cash value (coz it is a standalone medical card) if want to pay for his mom from the age of 60 till 80 years old. That put him off.