Okay, let's start with a 3D primer.

1) The codec to be used is MVC - Multiview Video Codec. It's a variant of H.264. Left eye video is encoded first and then the right eye video is compared to the left eye. The difference between the two is the differential data. The final data for that frame = Left Eye + Differential Data. That's why it's possible to deliver high quality digital 3D data, due to the processing speed of the decoder and other related equipment. The fact that the Cell can already decode 3 simultaneous H.264 1080p stream is what makes the PS3 capable of handling 3D BD. And because DVB-S2 uses H.264 for its HD signals means that Astro in the future can enable 3D HD.

3D HD is true HD full color format. It is not an anaglyph format!

2) 3D HD is format agnostic. That means it's not tied to any one TV manufacturer or 3D technology. Once decoded, it can work on ANY 3D HD TV or projector.

3) 3D HD being delivered is 1080p for BD. No word yet on how it will be for satellite/cable. It is NOT standard definition.

4) There are many types of 3D HDTV/projector that are being developed. The one's that is coming out soon by Panasonic, Sony and Samsung is the active shutter glasses. The active LCD glasses works by shutting one lens then shutting the other in rapid succession; this works because the TV will transmit the sync data needed.

The passive glasses works similar to the RealD and Dolby 3D digital cinema systems. The video is transmitted rapidly and using special polarized lens, the 3D effect is achieved. No word if anybody coming out with 3D HDTVs this way. In the movies, digital 3D is achieved using 3-chip DLP projectors.

Finally, 3D with no glasses. This is achieved using special coatings on the screen and rapid video switch by the TV. The only drawback so far is that it doesn't deliver as crisp a video as the two above methods. Another method uses single-user active head tracking. It tracks your head and layers the video according to the position of the viewer. Then there's the multi-user active head tracking, similar like the above but more complicated.


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From HDGuru:



For the full story, click here.

We don't have RealD installation in Malaysian cinemas primarily because the screen has to be changed to a silver screen. GSC and TGV don't feel they need to invest in 3D fully. So they use Dolby 3D instead because the Infitec technology does not necessitate the change of screens. However if their screen is not optimized, the 3D movie will look dark.

I prefer the RealD system which uses circular polarization of the glasses and the Z-screen. The same circular polarization is used for LG's CF3D projector (RM60,000) for home theaters. The projector is getting good reviews.

Incidentally those of you who have AXN HD and happen to catch the Sony Style TV show, the latest episode shows the amount of work that has to get done for 3D movies. It's very interesting how 3D adds two more technicians in the crew.

From the set to post, the 3D is being evaluated using circular polarized glasses. On the set, the 3D monitors used are JVC professional monitors using Xpol micro-polarizers; Hyundai/Arisawa is already making Xpol 3D LCDs for computer monitors. The Xpol tech divides the vertical resolution in half - from 1080 to 540) to deliver the alternating 3D pixels to the left and right eye. For post, the technicians are using digital projectors with RealD's Z-screen to get the full 4K resolution.


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This post has been edited by writesimply: Sep 22 2010, 12:19 PM

From Optoma Europe:

What the 3D-XL adapter does is enable 3D-ready 720p Optoma projectors to be used with active-glasses IR systems. It has a connector for an IR transmitter. It will cost USD399 when it is released on January 2010 according to Big Picture Big Sound.

Another feature of the adapter is that it can separate the L-R video signals to individual L and R video signals. This will enable users to use passive 3D system instead of active-shutter system.

To do this, you need to split the 3D signal into two using a HDMI splitter. Then two 1080p 3D signals goes into TWO 3D-XL adapters. Using a MANUAL switch at the back of each adapter, the signal from each adapter will be dedicated to either L image or R signal. The 1080p L/R signal will then be fed into TWO 1080p projectors that MUST HAVE a polarizer over their lenses. The separated L/R signals are projected to a silver screen and by using passive 3D glasses, users can experience 3D HD.

The important thing to note about using this passive 3D approach (HDMI spliter, 2 adapters, 2 projectors and 2 polarizers) is that users can USE ANY 1080p PROJECTOR as the light engine.
One HDMI splitter = RM200.
Two 3D-XL adapters = RM2500.
Two PT-AE 4000 projector =RM16,000.
Two polarizers = RM200.
Total = RM18,900.

While it is not a plug-n-play solution (careful video calibration is needed), the cheapest passive 3D system available now costs RM60,000 (LG CF3D). So depending on the projector you choose, you can go as low as RM8900 (2 Optoma HD20s for RM6,200) for a passive 3D system or as high as RM18,900.


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This post has been edited by writesimply: Sep 28 2010, 03:56 PM

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Added on September 30, 2010, 6:04 am
Here are the images for the Optoma 3D-XL 3D processor.

That's probably under RM2000 if you DIY it, based on a user who experimented his own DIY silver screen using the LG CF3D. The 3D-projection-on-the-cheap system definitely need a user who knows what s/he is getting into. Unlike the LG CF3D or the active shutter systems by JVC/Sony, you need to turn off one of the projectors and possibly enable economy mode when you are watching 2D sources. The silver screen would be too bright to play 2D movies.

But for about RM10,000 getting a 3D projection system that can go 100" minimum is an incredible feat of DIY. Imagine watching Tron 3D on BD next year and then playing Killzone 3-3D at home.


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This post has been edited by writesimply: Sep 30 2010, 06:05 AM

Like what? Bionic eyes? Every product you see in the market have been invented and then vetted through the cost of production and marketing. Don't simply suggest people invent a "new technology" when you can't even begun thinking what it could be.


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Yes there is. It'll be launched in December. Price is around RM9000. The size is 20". Yes, it's meant for the rich who have no use for money.


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Of course there are a few ideas being tossed around. But that is not the point.

The point is that YOU didn't even put an idea forward and instead demanded that somebody else come up with one. So lets hear your great idea on how to make a glassless 3D system work.


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It's useful if you have multiple 3D projectors, HDTVs and monitors of different brands. Or if you just like to watch 3D content at stores all the time. Other than that, not very useful.

Meanwhile, Philips is launching the 3D version of its 2.35 HDTVs. That actually makes more sense than standard HDTVs since the screen is bigger, which means it will be more immersive. Hopefully the graphics processor that handles the upconversion is up to the task for 3D decoding.


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Only if you're watching 3D movies in the US, UK, Canada, some European countries and Indonesia.

The glasses you mentioned work with RealD 3D only, which is a circular polarized 3D system. The ones we have in Malaysia are Dolby 3D Digital, which uses color frequency interference system.


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This post has been edited by writesimply: Nov 7 2010, 01:48 PM

Physically, what you suggest can work. The problem is the cost. Instead of costing RM10-20,000 for the 3D HDTV, it's going to cost 1.5 to 2.0 times that for your approach. The reason is that now the HDTV has TWO LCD panels - one acts as the imager while the other as the circular/linear polarizer. The LCD polarizer must not only match the size of the imager, both panels must also work together to create the right L-R image for each eye.

This approach is currently being explored by RealD Digital. They announced it at the last 3D Entertainment Summit where their Z-screen circular polarizer technology will be licensed to CE manufacturers.

The CK glasses won't work at home and neither would the Dolby 3D ones as they are not active glasses. If you buy the LG CF3D 3D projector, you can use the CK glasses.


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Regular HDTV + PS3 + 3D BD = 2D HD video. Right now, there is no 3D Extended Edition of Avatar. There's not even a 3D version of Avatar.


Besides a 3D HDTV or projector? High speed HDMI cable from the player/receiver to the 3D HDTV/projector.

And how might that work?


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You don't say.

Would you extend the lack of common sense to people who watch 3D in the cinema who wears 3D GLASSES?

What exactly about wearing 3D glasses that creates this lack of sense?
3D HDTVs is not a failure nor a failed product. It works as advertised, just as 3D films in the cinema works as advertised. The fact that you have to use 3D active glasses to experience 3D does not make it a failed product or an overpriced product. Your logic is flawed.


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There is no way to watch color-correct 3D.

20th Century Fox wants to wait until more 3D HDTVs and 3D BD players are being used by consumers.


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You might wanna have your eyes looked at. Especially before Tron Legacy, since most of that film will be light and dark.

It's not about the contrast between light and dark scenes. Each 3D installation has its own convergence setting. The projectionist can set it by himself but usually it's best not to meddle with it since it would have been calibrated beforehand. While I do notice the lack of depth is more prevalent in the morning show times than afternoons and evenings (the digital projector could be slow to warming up), each 3D film will ALWAYS have a sense of depth in any given scene. you just have to know where to look.

In the case of Sammy's Adventures, it's everywhere!


You only use silver screen with RealD 3D systems. You don't need it with Dolby 3D Digital. RealD polarizes light for the left and right images; therefore it needs a silver screen that can maintain the polarization before it gets to your eyes. Dolby separates each RGB color into their own frequencies which is why it doesn't need a silver screen; in fact, a silver screen may make a Dolby installation look horrible.

If our cinemas want to maintain the screen but increase the lumens, they need to install TWO Dolby 3D Digital projectors per hall. RealD installation has to balance between the projector and the silver screen to increase lumens but avoiding hot spots.


Technicolor has also introduced their method of showing 3D but using regular 35mm. The hall MUST have a silver screen but not a digital projector. The 35mm frame is divided into left and right eye images, stacked on top of each other. Using a Technicolor special split lens - which polarizes the light for left and right images, the projector will be able to show 3D. Technicolor does not deem this as a 3D digital replacement but more like a buffer for cinema chains that already have silver screens but are on waiting lists for digital projectors or can't afford one.




I definitely think that upgrading the equipment would be advisable. Maybe the Technicolor solution would work well in Malaysia, seeing how cheap-skate theater chains are.

At. Home. Die. Does. The. Why. It. Selling. Slowly. Delete. Delete. Delete.

It's not selling well because Americans, who are still wary about the economy, are not ready to pay its premium price. If the price is high but they can still afford it, they'd buy it. That's why the retailers are cutting down prices like mad over there for Black Friday. Content is also lacking. But it is hoped that next year more content will come to homes in terms of 3D channels, 3D games (the potential is enormous) and non-exclusive 3D BDs.


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3D TV was adopted "long time history ago and failed in marketing segment"? Really?

First, I need some clarification: When you say 3D, is it for home or cinema? How long was "long time history ago"? Which "marketing" segment?

People don't need things they can live without. You can live without your cell phone, internet, car, TV, golf club, watch, iron and underwear.

People want what they can afford to have. Similarly, people don't need to view Avatar on a 60" 1080p 3D LED screen, a 23" LCD monitor or even a 14" laptop. They can just watch it on an 8" black and white CRT TV. But it is not the same, is it?

I agree there. There's no point for average Malaysians to go buy 3D HDTVs since content is limited to 3D BDs and games. But if 3D BDs and games are what they're into and they can afford one, why not?

They like it. However, that is a rather silly thing to ask me to do since in ANY forum, there are opinions for or against any one thing. That's why it's called a FORUM, not a FANBOY SITE.

By the way, I've been reading AVSF since before DVD was launched.


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Next time give credit where credit is due. We KNOW you didn't write that. At the very least learn how to apply links and [ Quote ] [ /Quote ] in your post before you attempt a cut 'n' paste job in the future.

As for the actual article you DIDN'T quote, OF COURSE you can quote somebody who agrees completely with you. If you quote somebody who didn't, it wouldn't further your argument, would it? Regardless, if you don't believe that 3D will take off, then please don't piss on this thread. You do know that in the past, some people in AVSF believed that DVD could never replace Laserdisc or that HD-DVD would be the standard for HD video, right? RIGHT?

Again, this is about 3D tech. Not about if you like or dislike 3D. Of course if you dislike 3D, then you wouldn't like to discuss 3D tech.

Actually that's not my point. And sounds like you didn't see THAT movie. Sammy's Adventure, while having a decent story, suffered from a bad case of stereography. The director of photography should have guided the audience into seeing what we should be concentrating on instead of having our eyes wander everywhere in the frame. That movie is the first 3D movie that gave me a buzz.

Still somewhere around RM10,000 I believe.

Obviously, you thought wrong.

If you live alone and you like to game in 3D, get a 720p 3D DLP projector with active glasses. DIY your own silver screen. You can watch 3D BDs but only at 720p. Console games are only in 720p as well.


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It depends on what you mean by "animated". Technically speaking, Avatar is mostly live action performances; the CGI was used to replace the actors but the face and their body movement is theirs.

I thought G-Force was a good, mostly non-animated, movie. And it was a 3D conversion.

EDIT: Forgot that I saw 20-minutes of Tron Legacy. The best 3D non-animated (mostly) movie for now. Best 3D animated is Tangled.


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This post has been edited by writesimply: Nov 16 2010, 02:51 PM

Magik.


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Yes, it is normal for current gen 3DTVs. I think the occurrence of ghosting depends on the content (encoding) as well as the 3DTV you play. It is not related to 3D BD players, if the player's firmware is up to date.

It must be said that ghosting may not appear with 3D projectors with circular passive systems.
But they're not the size you're looking for?

I've seen ghosting in different spots across all the units I've seen so far. I'm also unfortunate enough to notice the shuttering effect of LCD glasses.

On a separate topic, the Imax theater in Berjaya TS has been converted to a 3D digital theater. Still no word yet which 3D system they are going with.


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Actually, buying a 3D monitor and glasses for the PC is the best option since PC has more content in terms of 3D games. If you equip the PC with a BD drive, then you can watch 3D BD.

No, not really. Some 3DTVs can do 3D conversion but that's usually not a good idea.

Yeah, something like that.


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