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 The Official Subwoofer Thread v3, Everything you need to know about bass!

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paskal
post Jul 14 2010, 12:17 AM

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QUOTE(mys_terious @ Jul 13 2010, 11:46 PM)
will post some pics but really a laubeh ht.. as for opening ceremony i do welcome any1 who is interested but i doubt any1 would come to my kampung except anfieldude
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where exactly your kampung bro?
in penang issit? me and some friends going to penang this weekend. maybe can drop by your place and share the experience hehe
paskal
post Jul 14 2010, 11:37 AM

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QUOTE(ronnt88 @ Jul 14 2010, 11:03 AM)
if u r from kedah, his kampung is rite in the middle of ur state tongue.gif
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right smack in the middle? somewhere in sungai petani issit? because alor setar is near to the north already. i reckon gurun should be somewhere in the middle of the state biggrin.gif
paskal
post Aug 26 2010, 08:15 PM

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QUOTE(lightning69 @ Jul 17 2010, 06:04 PM)
Paradigm DSP-3400 vs SVS PC12Plus

Ok.  I have tested both sub side by side on the 14th July 2010 in my friend's house.  My opinion on both sub is base on real life listening with only one calibration done on both the Paradigm DSP-3400 vs SVS PC12Plus i.e. setting the volume level to equal loudness using SPL meter.  No room adjustment or calibration is done during the test.  For the same SPL measured, my SVS volume level is set at half way at 12 while the DSP-3400 is set at only slightly above 10. 

Listening material used:

1. Eagles Farewell Tour 1
2. Finding Nemo - Darla Taps Tank (1:18:16) & Whale Spouting (1:12:04) 20Hz
3. Kung fu Panda: Fight between Po and Tai-lung & Po escape
4. Transformers: Ironhide Sweep
5. Golden Compass  during the Polar Bear fight & Airship entering city.
6. DTS Demo DVD - Omar Hakim - Listen Up

We tested by playing above with one sub and then replay it imediately with another sub so there are a lot of sub switching during the test.

For music, both subs gave very similar performance.  Its good to hear that the Paradigm DSP-3400 is not boomy just like the SVS PC12-Plus and both produce clean and tight bass.  It really very hard to tell any difference between the 2 subs.

For movies, most of the test materials I use really push the subs to its limit and both sub can handle what we throw at it.  Most of the people present prefer the SVS more as its seems to give more kick than the Paradigm.  However the Paradigm DSP-3400 is great sub too as it can handle all the above with room shaking bass too.  It just feel that the SVS dig slightly lower(maybe) therefore giving the feeling of more punch.

Overall I highly recommend the Paradigm DSP-3400 for its price and its performance.  The one we tested cost RM3800 vs the SVS PC12+ which retail for RM5400 in Malaysia.  Without a side by side comparison, you can hardly tell any difference in performance from the 2 sub so for those budget concious people, please do check out the Paradigm DSP-3400.  You won't be disappointed.
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quoting the previous impression made by lightning69.

user posted imageuser posted image
a good friend of mine have just bought a new Paradigm DSP3400 for RM3300. yes you read that right, RM450 cheaper than SVS PB12-NSD which are selling from official Malaysian distributor reseller for RM3750.

i (we) have audited the PB12-NSD last 2 weeks at a friend's house in penang for 2 hours listening to his PB12 playing various scenes from Terminator Salvation, Cloverfield, David Foster & Friends, Die Hard 4.0 and some music tracks.
this DSP3400 beats the PB12-NSD sounds better than the PB12-NSD. it goes deeper, have more weight to it, better slam and more pronounced.

the PB12-NSD is rated to go until 18Hz. this DSP3400 is rated to go until 19Hz. but FWIW, this DSP3400 sounds like it goes deeper than the SVS. lightning69 say it holds ground to PC12+ (RM5550 from official reseller) which are rated to go till 16Hz.
considering that the new PB12NSD fitted with the newer DSP amp might increase in price for another 5-15% (source), might as well go for this DSP3400 for at least RM450 cheaper.

and owh, you guessed correctly; this DSP3400 does come with a DSP amp. that's why the 'DSP' moniker is in the DSP3400 model number.
so for RM450 less, you get 2" larger woofer than the PB12-NSD and a DSP amp. and not forgetting better weight, better slam and more pronounced bass.
paskal
post Aug 27 2010, 04:36 AM

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QUOTE(jchong @ Aug 26 2010, 09:25 PM)
Wow, sounds like the DSP3400 is the sub to beat in the 3K+ range.
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i'm gonna let it run it for a couple of weeks then make a freq response graph for it. if indeed it goes lower than 19Hz, then IMO it's a better buy than the SVS PB12-NSD.

QUOTE(anfieldude @ Aug 26 2010, 09:30 PM)
Cool. I hv not heard the DSP3400 before, but I hv seen it in the shop. If it works for ur friend and u, thats the most important. Sound is very subjective as there are no real standards defined. I hv heard some Paradigm subs before and was not impressed, but the DSP3400 seems to be well regarded.
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hearing how people are dissing the DSP3400 previously (when lightning69 posted his impressions) and making fun of it, i really think people should hear a different opinion.
i do agree sound is a very subjective issue, but thoughts about a competing product can't be dissed-up (if the word even exists) entirely just because it is a different product compared to those which we are familiar with.

i think forumers should be (more) free in sharing their opinions and should not be scared to post and telling others about it.
if people are still shooting blindly like how lightning69's impressions are being shot at, we won't hear any other opinions about any competing products because fear of being shot down.

bro if you have seen then sub, then i reckon maybe this time you will ask the shopowner to power it up and hear how it performs. you won't regret that few minutes of your time.
paskal
post Aug 27 2010, 10:27 AM

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QUOTE(pierreye @ Aug 27 2010, 07:44 AM)
I think one of the reason is traditionally most of us will think a branded sub performance will never surpassed a ID sub at the same price range. In fact, base on the review, Paradigm DSP3400 looks like a very good bargain below RM 5k range. I'm interested in DSP3400 now as if I were to DIY a ported 13Av.2 single sub, I estimate at least RM 500 for cabinet and another RM 2.5k for a 1kw amp plate. Might as well get a DSP3400 and call it a day. Anyone had a chart of the freq response of DSP3400? Max SPL before major distortion kick in?

We are here to share information. Not that we worship a single brand. If you ask me, Am I happy with A7s-650? Yes. Is there any other brand I'm interested? Definitely... especially the Submersive HP... if only Mark is responsive.
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freq response graph for the DSP3400 are somewhat hard to get. tried searching highs and lows for it, but never found any. maybe i'm just bad at using google. biggrin.gif

the DSP3400 retails for USD899 in the US, similar price bracket as the PC12+ which are going for USD949. the PB12-NSD retails for USD599.
at USD899, i might be calling it overpriced compared to the 16Hz PC12+. but at RM3.3k which is cheaper than even the PB12NSD, it's a bargain. after all, it was intended to compete with the PC12+, but over here we're pitting it against a lower price bracket PB12NSD.

QUOTE(htkaki @ Aug 27 2010, 09:35 AM)
paskal, the PB12-NSD and DSP-3400 belongs to the same owner?
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not the same owner. not even the same test environment. but i've listened to the DSP3400 at 3 different places. first at the shop's auditon room, second at my house, and third time at the owner's house. in all 3 instances it sounds better than the PB12NSD.

kindda hard to get an owner to loan me his precious sub just to do a comparison right? the PB12NSD is in penang island, 2 hours drive from here.
and after listening to the DSP3400 at 3 different places and coming the same conclusion each time, don't think i'll be buying a PB12NSD anywhere in the near future.
paskal
post Aug 27 2010, 02:17 PM

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QUOTE(HornyAngMoh @ Aug 27 2010, 12:59 PM)
Yes! It is hard to get a PB12NSD vs DSP 3400. However here is a PC12NSD vs DSP3400. I believed PC12NSD is similar to PB12NSD.

Here is the 'review' http://hornyangmoh.blogspot.com/2009/09/12-vs-14.html

Oh! Please don't shoot me............very poor peasant here. blush.gif
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now we have 3 people posting similar finding about the dsp3400.

excerpts from your review:
QUOTE
And the finding is Paradigm DSP 3400 is a better sub when compare to the SVS PC-12NSD. The SVS PC-12NSD just can’t go as low as the Paradigm DSP 3400 & also it power output is not as powerful or as loud as the Paradigm DSP 3400 even though the SVS has a more powerful amp.


people should really look into this dsp3400 if they're looking for a new sub with around RM3k budget.

QUOTE(jchong @ Aug 27 2010, 12:58 PM)
Seems that Paradigm is good value in MY like what htkaki mentioned. For DSP3400 US$899 RRP over there vs RM3.3k here (3.67x). Or the Sub 25, US$4000 RRP there vs RM14.5k here (3.63x).

Paradigm must have a very efficient int'l distribution system.
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maybe the tax and shipping for the dsp3400 is lower. after all, it is smaller than the svs yet it weights roughly the same (29.5kg)
paskal
post Aug 27 2010, 06:43 PM

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QUOTE(klimal @ Aug 27 2010, 04:39 PM)
Pray tell where can one buy the dsp3400 for RM3.3K?
Can pm me the place if it's not proper to disclose that here.
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been reading the forums for quite a while now (check my date of registration) and there's been more than a couple of times where forumers share the contact information for C.T. Seong, kevin the tv seller, addresses for tv shop in ampang and etc etc. if should it's against policy then by all means it's been happening more than one time.

[edited: pm me if you want contact info]

i'm not in any way associated to the shop. i'm not being paid to give good reviews for it.
but i do think people should know about it as it's in my honest opinion the sub to beat at around RM3k

QUOTE(ycs @ Aug 27 2010, 05:13 PM)
look forward to see your FR chart.

below is my PB12-NSD chart

user posted image
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i'm gonna let it run-in for a few weeks first before taking any measurement. the driver must be loosen up first.

This post has been edited by paskal: Sep 4 2010, 06:32 PM
paskal
post Sep 18 2010, 09:51 PM

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QUOTE(geforce1999 @ Sep 18 2010, 08:38 PM)
Wow... declaring war again...  sweat.gif
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if it's war, guess some of us already knew which is at the losing end biggrin.gif

war isn't the right word. more like pointing the facts and going against popular belief smile.gif
paskal
post Sep 18 2010, 11:45 PM

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QUOTE(htkaki @ Sep 18 2010, 10:35 PM)
logit85 don't believe in 400W  sad.gif  Someone must convince him that it is indeed ULTRA powerful and that he doesn't nee kW of power.
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need a sifu to convince. ask the sub sifu to come talk to him
paskal
post Sep 18 2010, 11:59 PM

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QUOTE(geforce1999 @ Sep 18 2010, 11:51 PM)
Don't think Singapore will give better price, else I would have got my speaker from them already...
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singapore up there is selling svs cheaper. don't even have to ask for best price; even retail price there is already cheaper.
but have to pay import duty and tax manually lah. and the last time i check, RM is going up. could possibly mean even cheaper now.
paskal
post Sep 19 2010, 11:05 AM

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QUOTE(htkaki @ Sep 19 2010, 02:31 AM)
Pls convince him  smile.gif  I've given up  doh.gif
In a sense, it is indeed true. GST is 7% as oppose to our 15% import duty and 10% sales tax sweat.gif Drive down and get an Ultra back. Settle with Ketam. Viola....save few hundreds buck to upgrade other things.

Btw, have you got your avr? It is very cheap there for a new unit  smile.gif
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i'm quite happy with my current modified one. we've tried a marantz sr6003 and compared it with my modified avr and sr6003 loses out. both when handling movies and music. even after the sr6003 are power amped.

early next week a friend will be bringing his denon 2310 over and hopefully that will sound better. will be inviting a few other forumers to come over and listen to the hype that internal modification could do. nonetheless, end of this week will be flying to JB.
paskal
post Sep 20 2010, 09:59 PM

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QUOTE(jchong @ Sep 19 2010, 11:09 AM)
Who did the internal mods for you?
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a friend. he's keeping a low profile. he reads lowyat forum, but won't register a nickname. a silent reader

QUOTE(htkaki @ Sep 19 2010, 11:11 AM)
Good to hear that. 2310 might be better for movies playback if compare to stock SR6003. When it comes to music, SR6003 should smoke it with ease as its sounds quite thin and flat.

Do let me know the result smile.gif
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we'll see how it goes. if it's significant i'll be carrying home a new avr this weekend.
paskal
post Sep 28 2011, 01:57 PM

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QUOTE(jchong @ Sep 28 2011, 01:25 PM)
Some other AVRs might have dual sub output, but they cannot correct for the two subs properly. To do this you need an AVR with XT32 like the Denon 4311 or Onkyo 3008/5008.
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onkyo processor is selling at the same price as the denon 4311 in singapore.around rm6k.also comes with xt32
paskal
post Sep 28 2011, 09:10 PM

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QUOTE(anfieldude @ Sep 28 2011, 02:57 PM)
paskal,

Which model?

BTW: I checked the refresh rate of the C6500 plasma and its 60Hz.
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it is indeed the onkyo 5508.selling for sgd2.4k which i do think is a great price for a processor.a lot of u guys are running poweramp these days so the poweramp section in an avr would be unused anyway.might as well go for a pre-power if the price is the same.

 

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