Biofuels (Biodiesel and bioethanol) are renewable fuels to substitute petroleum in our vehicles. Currently the European Union has mandated 10% of biofuel in their vehicles in the next 10 years. It is claimed that biofuel can help to reduce emission of green house gases and mitigate the effects of global warming. Do you agree with that?

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This post has been edited by phantom1985: Dec 5 2009, 05:01 PM

yes, there's a lot of advantage in biodiesel. but, since the source of biodiesel is from agricultural produce, there'll be a serious impact on human food basket as the land used for food crops also need to accomodate a crops grown for biofuel. as human populations grow, the need for food and fuel will grow and many countries will resort to deforestation to provide needed land.

This issue remains controversial. But the scientists are looking for non-edible source as feedstock. Such as algae and woody biomass.

algae will be a good idea... but like palm oil, i dont think it will be sustainable.. 1st of all is pricing, if oil drops below palm oil like now, d whole industry dies... also taking interms of energy to manufacture d fetilizer, fuel for machines to harvest d buah, d food to feed d indon workers.. i dont think it is a good idea

UM is also carrying out research in this field. Some of my friends are doing their thesis topics on biodiesel and envodiesel

So what is their conclusion? is it feasible or not feasible?

i believe it is in d same field but not the same topic... not many unis research on that... because it is understood it is not feasible, even if it is feasible it is not sustainable/financially viable

may i know yor friends who are currently doing this research topics are actually hailing from which faculty?
are they under their master study?

Does the machine/engine need to be modified/changed to use this biofuel?

E10 is widely used in Australia and i use it to fuel up any dingbat car that isn't mine or doesn't need a higher octane, the only thing is that you will need to change the fuel injector piping because rubber and ethanol are an odd couple. This is only required for older cars, new cars run fine without any modifications.

E85 is a very high percentage blend of ethanol and is used in some rural communities, its octane is extremely high BUT an ECU remap is required to run it. A member of SAU tested E85 on his high boost Skyline without much issues after the mappings were edited.

This post has been edited by empire23: Dec 15 2009, 09:19 PM

we have a large supply of biofuel possibilities.

one of them is palm oil.

but considering the malaysian gov stand on this matter is mute and seeing that diesel engine and fuel is always on the back bench of the goverment there is no feasibility to pursue this route since it is not supported by them.

if we ever ventured into a full scale biodiesel production, petronas will suffer the most.

Why? I think Petronas derived most of its income by selling oil to foreigners as our Tapis Crude is of high quality. It will not affect Petronas. Even if we venture into bio diesel, it is still a blend of palm oil and diesel, so, you still need diesel. If we ever wanted to create a biofuel industry, I think Petronas would be the government vehicle to promote such venture as they are in the energy business. Other foreign oil company such as Shell and BP do invest in renewable energy,so, Petronas involvement in non-renewable fossil fuel does not mean that they cannot involve in renewable energy.

But I think the prospect for palm oil based bio diesel is rather dim due to the outcry from Europe and US about us clearing our forest for palm oil. So, they will be highly unlikely to purchase from us. Leaving them out would take away two major market and leave us with China. As for China, why would they want to use Bio Fuel? We can't rely on Malaysian market alone as it is way too small.

I think a lot of people miss out the cost wise.

1 barrel of crude oil - USD 70 = RM238
1 barrel = 159 litres

Crude oil cost you 238/159 = RM1.50/litres

1 tan of crude palm oil = RM2400
1 tan approximate 1000 litre

Crude palm oil cost = Rm2.40/litres.

How can bio-fuel fight with fossil fuel if cost wise already high at starting point, not to mention the technical difficulty for bio-fuel engine.

Unless legislation required, purely on commercial wise that everything talk about $$ and cost, there is no way bio-fuel can outmuscled fossil fuel.

Ask ourself, do you willing to pump Rm2.40/litres one instead of Rm1.50/litres if both are the same (in actual fact, bio-fuel still lose out to fossil fuel until now in term of technical wise)

you havent add in the refining part of d crude oil... crude oil can produce a lot of other stuff besides petroleum.... and d refining process requires a lot of energy in terms of electricity.... so cannot use crude oil price... must use petrol n diesel price..

crude oil also have to go through refining but in a diff way... not all palm oil is used, certain part is sold more exp to pharmacys and cosmetic companies... after all d exp part is gone, d lousiest part is used for fuel.. and to produce fuel from this crude is just by adding ethanol and some mixing...

however i still think palm oil is not viable because d fertilizer is crazy exp... our workers now are all indons n indians.. how many can we hire?

Errr... I just highlight the feedstock or raw material price. When your raw material price is high, nothing you can do about it.

Both are (crude oil and CPO) are in raw form. CPO needs to be refined as well.

Petrol vs diesel price?

The topic here is about bio-fuel not petrol vs diesel.
It is 100% fossil fuel diesel vs bio-diesel.

Diesel and petrol come from the same feedstock aka crude oil.

Bio-diesel is just adding refined palm oil 10% into 90% fossil fuel diesel. So with cost wise CPO already higher in the first place, adding 10% will make it more expensive which is not an economical viable solution, nor will be well received by consumers.

Palm oil in not viable or feasible for replacing fossil fuel diesel because of cost wise, which is the major reason, why bio-diesel cannot move ahead.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Dec 17 2009, 12:44 AM

I think biofuel will be feasible for commercial scale production in another 4-5 years if oil prices start to rise again to about US $ 140-150 per barrel. The main incentive of having biofuel capabilities for palm oil is that it acts as a safety net in the event that the demand for it as an edible oil drops preventing a sudden crash in demand and price because excess supply can be converted to fuel.

Last time crude oil US 120 per barrel, CPO also shoot up to RM4k/tonne.

So ur biodiesel purpose now is just for to ensure palm oil industry has high profit and not a as a substitute for petrol?

Palm oil is definitely not it. A lot of effort has been put into researching the jatropha plant as a source of biofuel - it obviates the whole food vs fuel issue for palm oil plus gives relatively better yields thanks to genetic engineering.

Comparing jathropa and palm oil. What is the yield per area for both?

You got the point. Jatropha is water-crazy and the yield largely depends on climate. A thirsty jatropha gives little oil. Oil palm definitely dominates in average yield/ha.

i must say jathropa isnt as efficient as palm oil. It requires a lot space and one tree of jathropa wont produce so many oil. The current solution now is green algae. Try to google for "petro-algae". This method only require a pond to grow this algae and it can be harvest for further treatment to convert lipid into ethanol

it is feasible. First of all oil price will not drop below palm oil prices. Energy consumption is expected to double in the next few decades. If supply is running low and demand is doubled.. how can they prices rise?

Therefore, yes biofuel is the next step.

Well, do note that a lot of fertiliser is sourced from petroleum - it will also raise most biofuel prices, if they depend heavily on fertiliser.

biodiesel if produce on farm land will not be feasible, the world is also running out of farm land to produce enough food, algae will be a good choice if mass production can be perfected.

heh? CPO is 800usd/ton wor

As I remembered Badawi had included it in one of his Budget but I see no Biofeul stations being set up as plan. Shortly after Najib took over the reins and it did not seem like his agenda. He likely will persue anything to do with 1Malaysia. Likely Malaysia will implement it when it become a trend in developed countries. I think it wise too. It better to do nothing. We had no idea what will replace petrol as the alternate fuel. Why spend so much to lay the infrastructure when it may not be the future fuel.