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Discussion 2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa

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verx
post Jul 13 2010, 05:13 PM

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QUOTE(air_mood @ Jul 13 2010, 04:56 PM)
Which was why I was surprised when he didn't go down  after Puyol fouled him. The Robben we all knew would have and it was a clear foul anyway as Puyol has his hands across Robben.
Might have been harsh. but the rules states that Ramos prevented him from a goalscoring opportunity did he?? It was barge into Ozil's leg. Irregardless, it should have been a peno at the very least, that is definite. A sending off, well it can go either way.

You can't say that Ramos could only avoid it if he had completely stopped. Just because he didn't mean it, doesn't mean it wasn't a foul. Let's take for an example the fleet footed wingers. Robben at his best for Chelski had a very bad injury because he got caught by Aaron Mokoena. Mokoena of course apologised afterwards saying that he mistimed as Robben was too quick for him. Mokoena's fault not Robben for being too quick. Same case for Ramos here. Because Ozil made a sudden turn which collided with Ramos' current momentum, it's still a foul as he was denying Ozil a goalscoring opportunity. He probably didn't mean it but just because he had good intentions and didn't mean it, doesn't mean it was a non foul.
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Firstly it was not a clear cut goal scoring opportunity. Ozil wasn't even in a position to pull the trigger yet and there was another defender there.
Secondly Ozil's turn did not collide with Ramos' momentum. Ozil actually turned away from Ramos who was running alongside him initially. By turning away his left foot sort of stuck out and Ramos sort of tripped over it. You can watch replays of it over again.
First time I saw it I thought the ref made the right call cause Ramos didn't stick a leg out to tackle. Replays showed there was contact but as I said it's understandable why the ref dismissed it.

We can argue over 50-50 incidents over and over again without ever coming to a conclusion. So might as well just let it go.
verx
post Jul 13 2010, 08:30 PM

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QUOTE(air_mood @ Jul 13 2010, 05:23 PM)
It doesn't have to be a clear cut goal scoring opportunity though, just a goal scoring opportunity, which that was, hence foul.
You get a dozen physical contacts in the penalty box every game. If a pen was to be given for every one of them it would be ridiculous. If Ramos stuck his foot out I would put up my hand and say it's a surefire pen. But he didn't and the ref let it go. Doesn't mean the ref got it wrong. It's a 50-50 call.

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Anyways, why I mentioned the incident was because there was some talk on ho if De jong was sent off, which he should have been btw, the game's outcome would have been sown up much earlier which of course, I argued against, citing the Barca-Inter game this season as a reference.
How can that game be a reference? Inter brought a 3-1 lead from the first leg. Totally different circumstances when compared to a 1-off game tied at 0-0 still. Mourinho could just set up not to concede and still win the tie. Holland needed to win unless they were willing to try their luck on penalties.

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For the record, I'm glad for players like Casillas and Pique to have won it whom I happen to see as OK guys. Hell, even Alonso who was probably the only Liverpool player I can stand. Thought Xavi was admirable at one point what with being very low key and all, very Scholes like if you will, just goes on with his business on the field not bothered about what happens off it but the finals change my opinion a bit though. The likes of Iniesta, Busquets, Capdevila, Silva can f off though.

Oh..and I have also always maintained that Sergio Busquets, the play-acting prick should be sent off and banned from football for being Sergio Busquets, so make what you will of that.

Added on July 13, 2010, 5:26 pmCrap, why does my post has to have the same tone as lilredridinghood...now people will start to think that I copied her post off. Hahaha.

Ohh by the way. I didn't just point fingers at the Spanish's playacting did I?? I repeatedly pointed out the Dutch's cynical fouling. Why did you think I said that neither deserved to win the WC?? Well, morally at least.
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Well it's easy to take the moral high ground but to claim they are undeserving winners is a little rich even for you. Since when was it whoever dived the least gets to win the WC?
And it isn't like Spain were the only team engaging in a little playacting throughout the WC. Busquets is someone I despise as well but he's kept his diving to a minimum in this tournament. To be singled out like that when there have been far worse examples, you just come off as someone extremely bitter. And let's not pretend that United players have never dived before in their lifetime. I hate playacting as much as anyone but players will continue to do it. You might as well quit watching football now if it irks you so much laugh.gif
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post Jul 13 2010, 09:29 PM

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QUOTE(odieseven @ Jul 13 2010, 09:19 PM)
People who are acknowledging the matter of diving as something normal in football is in fact condoning it..that's why it keeps happening. If FIFA is strict on diving or even on the imaginary card waving antics, it would never be problem again would it?
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I never said it should be normal in football nor am I condoning it. But I agree FIFA needs to take a stricter stance on it.
But neither should it be the reason for you not to enjoy a good game of football.
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post Jul 14 2010, 10:41 AM

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QUOTE(air_mood @ Jul 14 2010, 02:12 AM)
Where oh where in my posts did I mention United players did not dive?? I blasted Nani when he pretended as if he got hit after he headbutted Lucas Neill 3 years back. I blasted Ronaldo when he went down all to easily in the early stages of his career here. Hell. I even blasted Giggsy when he was in a stage of his career where he liked to put his hand on his hips and go "Eh, eh...ref??". So don't go mentioning that I play the holier than thou attitude when it comes to United players playacting.
So were United deserving winners then when Ronaldo was throwing himself to the ground whenever a defender got close to him?

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As for the pen, my view was which as the replay shows is that Ramos barged into Ozil, denied him a goalscoring opportunity and which according to the letter of the law is a foul, hence a peno. That is my view. You have yours, fine. but in my book it's a stonewall penalty and possibly a sending off what with him being the last man and all.
Agree to disagree then wink.gif

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As for the dives and playacting I can on and mention Torres against Chile or Capdevila against Portugal but don't really give a crap about those. It's the amount of diving and playacting in the final which bothered me the most since it was the game that mattered most.
So just because of this one game in which the opposition were overzealous and almost criminal going into their tackles, you judge that the other team doesn't deserve to win because they dived? Ok I get it now rolleyes.gif

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And the Barca-Inter game mentioned, my point is that just because is down a man or two, doesn't really mean they have to roll over and die?? It's not a foregone conclusion. Hence the argument that even if De Jong had been sent off, it's no certainty that Spain would have won. I could state other games, ours against Spurs away when Scholesy got sent off would probably be one. Another one which I think would be best is Chelski's few years back where Maniche got sent off, against West Ham I think. They managed to win 4-0 and Maniche got sent off fairly early. Hence, not a foregone conclusion.
And I can probably come up with another dozen examples of instances where teams took advantage of having an extra man. As you said it's not a foregone conclusion but knowing Spain's ability to keep possession it would have made it even harder for Holland to press as they did.

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Ehh?? Just because I don't acknowledge diving I should stop watching the game?? Roughly 90% of my friends smokes, around 75% or so drinks and about 30 or 40% does recreational drugs. I don't do either of the things mentioned and don't agree with it. So should I stop befriending them?? I don't agree with them doing it nor can they force me to agree with them doing it. Ditto the diving thing. Just because a lot of people are starting to accept as it being part of the game, doesn't mean I have to. It's still wrong anyways otherwise there wouldn't be rules and punishments put into place to prevent simulations.
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Exactly. You're tolerating your friends when they do all that. You don't go over your head bashing them saying they don't deserve to be your friends rolleyes.gif
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