Hello folks,

This is my very first post on jobs&careers. Straight to the point, I'm studying in the UK and I'm a penultimate year student, next year will be my placement year (if i'm lucky enough to get a job) else will be proceeded to my final year.
I have so many questions to ask. I hope some of you with related experience can help me out.

I'm thinking which of the professional certificate should i get? ACCA, ACA (ICAEW) or CFA. I wanted to go for ACCA because it is internationally recognized. But after attended some placement fair in Manchester ( I'm studying in manchester) I realised that ACA is preferred by almost all companies in the UK. So I have a 2nd thought since then.
I've talked to my friend regarding this matter and she told me if I were to work in the UK, I need to get ACA, if i'm going to malaysia after graduate then do ACCA because ACCA is very well known in Malaysia. And 1 more thing, after she googled to find out how popular is ICAEW in malaysia, she found out that many people in Malaysia dont even know what ACA is. So I rang my friend who is studying in Rahman university and ask him the same thing. He said " what ICAEW and what ACA is). So what? I'm pretty clear that ACCA would be the one for me.

Few days later, one of my friend came all the way down from Lancaster to Manchester. We met up and talk about ACCA and ICAEW. He told me that he is going to do ACA and I was shocked when I know that his parents from malaysia asked him to do so. His mum is a HR manager and one of her resposibility is to recruit ppl. That means ACA is pretty important for me now.

So what you guys think?

And 1 more thing, I might be going back to malaysia in summer and will be looking for a placement in malaysia if i dont get 1 in the UK. Is there any chance that the company will offer me a full time job after I graduate? And where to apply and which company to apply?

Or it is better for me to finish my final year then go back to find a job in malaysia rather then doing placement first? Work experience before you graduate is really important in the UK. Most company require applicants to have work experience prior graduate.

I hope it's not confusing and I'm sorry for my poor english. Thanks for looking

This post has been edited by Chuanmok: Nov 22 2009, 03:32 AM

If you dont mind the bond (4 years) and pretty sure that you'll be an accountant for some time, ACA (ICAEW) is nevertheless more prestigous. Anyways, ACA is only offered to first/second upper class of graduates, whereas ACCA is open to everyone including SPM leavers.

On the other hand, if you are keen to pursue a banking career, then CFA will be the answer.

You can apply to any Big 4 or banks for internship during your summer break. gLUCK.

ACCA..

Hmmm, tough choice. LOL. Not really.

As far as I am concerned, I would go for ACA.
1. It is more prestigious
2. ICAEW exams are one of the toughest examinations in the world.
3. You were saying that UK companies prefer ACA, while Malaysians prefer ACCA. It says alot about how ACA is in the international world.
4. For me, any Tom d*** and Harry can take ACCA nowadays. I have friends who is a science stream grad, working in science related field, taking ACCA. So yeah, it is not unique anymore, and sooner or later, EVERYONE will have ACCA.

However, ACA is not a programme that you can just sign up for like ACCA. The ACA programme is meant to groom you to be a future CEO, and not CFO (like what other professional qualifications do). It works as a mentorship programme, means you need to get yourself into one of ICAEW's certified tuition organizations (CTO) and apply from within. So yeah, the first step to ACA will be to secure yourself into an organization first. The full list can be obtained from ICAEW Malaysia's website.

*Based on my own opinion and knowledge. I do not represent ICAEW.

Can non-accounting grads take ACA then? Since its CEO grooming. Or only 'Arts stream' ppl can become CEO and 'Science stream' ppl are doomed to work for them all their lives? Cos a lot of intelligent people took 'Science stream' under the impression its more difficult thus rewards more later in life.

I agree with your other points. Not this one though.

The ACA program is widely accepted as the most public accounting / auditing focused of all the professional programs. Finance people in commercial widely regard the ACA as being too narrow to be a benefit in a commercial environment where business acumen and macroeconomic awareness is much more important than memorising accounting standards.

But if you intend to pursue a career in public accounting, nothing beats the ACA.

Having said that, NONE of the accounting qualifications groom you to be a CFO, much much less a CEO. All of them are too accounting standards and protocol heavy. A finance qualification with an emphasis on financial analysis and treasury plus commercial experience working directly with the commercial managers & decision-making (eg. business analyst, credit manager, risk manager, financial analyst, corporate funding and loans) will be the way any early 'grooming' will take place.

ACA is better, like Arse said ACCA is becoming chapalang.

As said fact that ACA is better known is UK is a telling fact in itself.

Won't be long before every employer in town knows this.

Hey Arse,

want to ask you - do you think ACCA is getting easier to pass?

I will say ICAEW for the ultimate choice (they have these statistics in europe that ICAEW holder likelihood to become CEO & CFO is 5 times higher than all the qualifications & degrees combined, not sure how accurate though).

My recommendation is ACCA-ICAEW route.
Reason being is the "exemption" part.
Degree is not really recognised in the eyes of ICAEW compared to degree so you will only have only 3 or 4 papers exemption. ACCA has more than 13 to 14 paper exemption.
Period is roughly the same : 4 years but the latter route you may end up with 2 professional title.
If you only take ICAEW and not pass all then you are stuck with degree & part ICAEW. If follow acca-icaew route then you may have acca if cannot finish aca.

The most important is go ICAEW website now & check their exemption structure.

CFA applies only if you want to stick with banking, if not then its usefulness in commercial sector is quite limited. Commercial companies (or MNC) will require jack of all trades rather than bank which requires speciallist. Thats why acca serves as the most solid platform for you to launch your career. Notice my word, its platform to launch not the ultimate goal. If you can get promoted or recognised very quickly then you don't need any paper to proof your credentials. But banking is the only line that can rob your life but they will seriously rewarding in terms of $$$.

Its only when your talent is not recognised then you will need all sorts of paper to back your claim. Sometimes less is more, just read the Abe Lincoln Gettysberg address speech, short & crispy.

I say this as someone who was exactly in the same shoes as the TS about 2 years ago.

For a UK university accounting graduate, the most natural route is to apply to a Big 4 firm under its Graduate Scheme. By doing so, you would have to do ICAEW's ACA or ICAS's CA (both are equally prestigious qualifications). Typically they wouldn't make you do the ACCA.

It is true that the ACA is engineered in a way to groom public accountants, but if you look at its structure it has a paper which focuses on Business & Finance and another one on Business Strategy; as well as a Case Study paper at the end which is based on a business scenario.

My advice would be to go for a summer internship at the Big 4, do your best and if you get the job, do take it because the amount of focus they put on the training and support for your ACA studies is immense.

Topace111, What do u mean by taking acca-icaew route? Do you mean to first finish ACCA and get some exemptions then continue to do ACA? I'm studying accounting and finance, I dont really know which career suit me best. Sometimes I just think that being an accountant in the future and dealing with numbers and all documents will end up no live. But again... Every job has its pros&cons. I wish someone could give me the insight of each of the career (eg, Accountant, CFA).

Cyclonova, is big4 giving support to its employer to pursue ACA studies? I would say my choice would depends on company if what you say is true. Is there any chance that I will get support from the company after graduation without taking ACCA, ACA or equivalent qualification? MAny people would say "dont pay for the fee yourself, go work in a company and they will send you for training or pay for your tuition fee of professional qualification.

Oh, one important thing. What would be the salary of a fresh graduate like me? Thanks

* Cyclonova, are you saying that you were facing the same problem 2 years ago? Do you mind telling me which qualification did you end up with and which field are you in now?

This post has been edited by Chuanmok: Nov 21 2009, 01:06 AM

Almost everyone in the end will one way or another takes up ICAEW (for those ambitious ones). So its ICAEW will need to draft an exemption system for students to refer to. ACCA will have the highest and easiest no of exemptions since both are quite related. You can go to their website and check (Ie : putting your degree and university's name or professional qualification possessed).

Big 4 will sposor you albeit reluctantly unless you expressed a very clear desire to stay until partner level. Its bcos you will spend roughly 4 months out of 1 year for study (including study leave & exams). So firms will not really enjoy that, but the offer to bond for ICAEW attracts certain graduates at the first place.

To launch you career, starting off in large MNC or Ltd firms will be quite risky being :
1) They will consolidate all their financial & accounting operations under a single entity like (Shell : Shell Shared Services Centre).
2) They will separate their divisions by classifications of a/cs like revenue, cost, interco, GL, treasury,....
3) So if you are selected into revenue, then you will stuck at revenue for the rest of your life (or it may not)
4) If your boss is there for good, then your promotion or increment will be lesser compared to others.

Being working in Big4 but I am not being bonded (I already possessed one) the bonding thing is actually a very subjective issue :
- if you fail in exam, then your promotion will stuck at junior level until you passed those exams.
- if you are extremely unhappy you cannot just simply choose to leave since you need to repay them (normally 4 years)
- they rarely give full bonds, since ICAEW is quite expensive they normally have a ceiling range and you will bond the rest.
- however if you performed well they may scrapped partially of that bond.

Well if you can get a job in UK that is quite good since I known some UK grads colleagues that UK have some domestic bias especially towards asians and they do have their own financial difficulties and unemployment problems. Not to mention the visa application issue....

Salary should be around RM2450 which is standard in MYS for Big4. RM2600 if you are an acca affiliate.

Thank you very much for your precious info. I have a clearer view now =)

Below are the exemptions based on the uni and the course im studying.
I dont know what do they mean because I dont know in which paper (1,2,3) they are in. And also how many units in a paper. Can someone explain them to me? Thanks


Accounting

A pass mark of 50% is required in all of the modules listed below, with at least 40% in all assessed elements

5B1010 Financial Accounting

5B2010 Accounting Theory and Practice

Assurance

A pass mark of 50% is required in all of the modules listed below, with at least 40% in all assessed elements

5B3030 Audit and Assurance

Business and Finance

Upper Second or first degree award or 50% is required in all of the modules listed below, with at least 40% in all assessed elements

5B1010 Financial Accounting

5C1030 Management Accounting 1

5B1020 Economics and Law

5C2020 Corporate Finance

5B2010 Accounting Theory and Practice

5B3020 Advanced Accounting Theory and Practice

Law

A pass mark of 50% is required in all of the modules listed below, with at least 40% in all assessed elements

5B1020 Economics and Law

5B2040 Business and Law

Management Information

A pass mark of 50% is required in all of the modules listed below, with at least 40% in all assessed elements

5C1030 Management Accounting 1

5C2030 Management Accounting 2

5C3040 Management Accounting 3

Principles of Taxation

A pass mark of 50% is required in all of the modules listed below, with at least 40% in all assessed elements

5B3040 Theory and Practice of Taxation

Business Strategy

A pass mark of 50% is required in all of the modules listed below, with at least 40% in all assessed elements

5J3080 Strategic Management

(Credit only available to students graduating in 2009 or earlier)

Financial Management

A pass mark of 50% is required in all of the modules listed below, with at least 40% in all assessed elements

5C2020 Corporate Finance

5C3060 Advanced Corporate Finance

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Added on November 21, 2009, 4:27 amTopace111, do you mind to tell me which of the big 4 are you working for? (Plz PM me if you dont wanna disclose it). And based on your experience which is the best in terms of employer benefits, company policy, pay, workload wise? And which pose is better? Honestly I dont know what I want to be in the future. I only know I can choose to become an auditor and financial advisor(if i were to take CFA)

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Added on November 21, 2009, 7:16 amUnbelievable.. I accidentally click on internship advertising and it links me to PwC. Can anyone tell me which line of service(assurance, tax, advisory, firm services) is the best or benefits me most after i graduate?? My speaking and writing in english is just average so it is better not to get into a line of service which requires good communication and excellent writing skills. Is fluency in english language an essential element in getting a job(internship) in big4 in malaysia?

This post has been edited by Chuanmok: Nov 21 2009, 07:29 AM

I think CFA is more towards investment banking and corporate finance like M&As. Most of the CFAs work as financial analysts or research analysts or brokers.

I don't think its a P&C thing, I am with EY MYS.
Audit is also not my first choice since I am not really looking forward to the the "job" itself. But its a great stepping stone and a great shortcut to jump to other career. Most of other professions requires the juniors to perform tedious works for their first 2 or 3 years. After joining audit you can join those company without experiencing those few years (but you have to suffer your own audit work as well).

If you are unsure about where to go or what to be then my suggestion is to stick with Big4 first for exposure. You may be exposed to audit work which involves analytical skills which is applicable in a lot of industries. Next you may be also exposed to accounting and many other sides of the company itself depending on your audit scope & engagement (and allocation by seniors or managers).

I am not promoting for Big4 but its quite essential for new grads to get these kind of experience while they are still young. I have received far better offers in terms of prestige and pay but those are only for short term. By the way advisory or consultancy position is not really recommended to join as fresh grads being you won't learn much compared to joining as experienced hires. You need to experience the operations itself before advising people. But if you see your future in it why not apply, interview session is really illuminating for me.

Starting pay : BDO is the highest I think, RM2800 to Rm3000 (but their increment is very little compared to others)
Training : PwC is very famous for their high tech and complete system.
Workload wise : Everywhere is the same.
Culture : EY has been noted to have friendly working environment (but got a few bad eggs as well)

PwC dealing with large conglomerates so you will have chances to audit them (and join them in later years), however being the client is too large : auditor are mostly stick within the same division or part of operations. Hence the general view of its "specialization".

EY is quite contrast with PwC, EY deals with more companies than any other Big4 (have big,medium and small). So as an auditor you may have a lot of different exposure. For small and medium (you may in charge of the whole company or most of it). For large company you will be in charge of one or two subsidiary.

KPMG is like a mixture of both Ey & PWC. Generally they will handle all sorts of clients in their respective depts. Their structure is very much like PwC as well.

Deloitte is rarely discussed so I hardly knew much about them. But they have the best tax dept.

Quite a bit of generalisation there about MNCs.

Service centers are not the only finance structure in MNCs. Like the banks, they are are mostly backroom operations only like AP, AR, invoicing, inventory costing, expense & claims, assets etc. But there are also lots of jobs which are business aligned or biz facing like biz unit finance, biz analysis, profit planning, customer financial services and corporate level finance like funding & cash, risk management, internal audit, investor relations, strategic planning etc. And depending on how the MNC wants to manage their local accounting book (according to local GAAP), some may centralise it to a service center, but most have local controllers organisations in each country as it's simply easier having locals deal with the local requirements & authorities rather than some foreigner in a far off service center somewhere.

I spent 3 years in PW (no C yet at that time) and then the last 10 years in a MNC. I've had multiple functional rotations from biz analysis, mfg & inventory costing, controller, internal audit to biz unit finance now. The scope has grown over time from one country, to ASEAN, to Asia (excluding China), to Asia (including China) + ANZ and later next year, I'll get the Indian subcontinent as well. I've moved from biz aligned (biz analysis) to service center (costing & controller) to corporate (audit) and back to biz aligned (biz unit). And the fact that bigger MNCs have many biz units of different sizes, simply moving from one biz to another can be a promotion or demotion (with no change in function or geography). So no, it's far from being "stuck in revenue" for the rest of my life.

Thinking back, if I had the chance to restart my career all over again, would I have started at PW again? No, I would go straight to a MNC. But it will have to be a big one and a global one to provide the length and breadth. Something Top 100 or maybe Top 200 in the world. Fortune 50 US or Fortune 50 Europe is okay as well. Top 5 in each major global industry is good too (global! ie. something like palm oil will not be a global industry). But you have to be mobile and willing to move wherever the company wants you to go. I reckon that after 13 years working, I would be at least 2 promotions ahead of where I am now if I started Day 1 in this MNC, rather than coming in at Year 4 from PW. I wouldn't need to waste a year or two building my network, my credibility and accumulating support amongst the bosses.

The accounting firms are different how?

How about others?
Sorry the line of service including Assurance, tax(not audit, my mistake), advisory and firm services. I have to choose from one of them.

Seantang, we have the same name just that you have an extra "g" lol.
Btw.. I do really appreciate your advice too..
Is MNC = multinational corporate?
I'm even indecisive now. Good to know that you have both experience in Big4 and MNC. Are you working in a MNC as an accountant when you first join them? It's more than ten years ago when you join PW©, would you think that it might be different today? Or you still think that starting off in MNC is far better than in big4?
Could you tell me your preference MNC and do they offer placement or internship? Thanks

Thats a really good insight and I really appreciate that. Really large MNC's are hard to come by not to mention very few openings. And jumping straight to those companies without any idea or exposure can be quite daunting.

In accounting firms, promotion is automatic every year until managerial level which is slower but promotion is still there until partner level. I am not too sure about how the system goes in the past but generally it is right now.
There will be a point in 3 to 4 years time that the staff will leave, so the dilemma is why they should stay at the firm.
I heard pay increment in Big4 for am or mgr is quite high (if reach that stage quite early). I think earning around RM6 to 7k p.m around age 25 or 26 will be very attractive for some. Since its always understaffed at Big4 I think its safe to say those that leave is more than those who stayed to be promoted.

For MNC, I think job hopping will be less compared to others. So its quite unfeasible to have so many managers or directors just bcos they are due for it. In accounting firms, they have no restriction on numbers of managers or partners (depending on number of clients). If they fufilled the minimum standards for KPI then they will get promotion or they stuck on their professional papers.

Do you join the MNC that is being audited by your firm ?

Let me put it this way. If you can make it in the top 4 accounting firms in the world, you can probably make it in a top 100 MNC.

I can safely tell you that salaries in top MNCs are better than accounting firms. Most of our executives get around 6-12K and these salaries are not as uncommon as you would think. Half the 50 staff in our accounting service center are in that range. New managers start at around 14K. That's more than what senior managers get at Big 4 firms.

As for the speed of promotions, MNCs can be quite fast if you do well. Up until a few years ago, we even had automatic promotions for the first 5 levels (as long as you are rated average and above). Other than that, there's all sorts of fast track programs like future leader, high potential, subject matter expert etc.

Besides salary. there's also the quality of life and working environment. I used to hate the compulsory car/taxi pooling, sharing cheap hotel rooms, low claims, buying your own stationery etc to save cost in PW. In MNCs, you can fly business class (for flights > 3hrs), corporate hotels are 5 star (safety thing), company credit card, 100% claims when you travel etc. You just feel so much less exploited.

Some of the partners and managers were rubbish as well. Throwing files, mouthing off, being arseholes. In MNCs, there are 1800-ETHICSLINEs you can call to report any abuse or discrimination. So, everyone's generally respectful and courteous. Environment's better.

Nope. I just answered a job ad in the newspaper.

But you know, would you be where you are if you did not have that 3 year accounting qualification from your experience with PW i.e did it help you with your post-PW career? Your comment about how you would go straight off to MNCs after grad really intrigued me - adding fuel to the recent most-probably-confirmed rumour in PwC regarding promotions but to put it bluntly, there's no room for me to distinguish myself anymore.

Seantang, do you mind to tell us which MNC do you work for? And what sort of qualification do I need to help me to join in a MNC? I just need a placement/internship not a graduate job for now.

P.S: I've talked about placement/internship so many times, and now I wonder if it's an important element(in Malaysia or in a MNC) for a student before graduation? Or it is better to finish my degree and get a real job rather than wasting a year in placement?

This post has been edited by Chuanmok: Nov 22 2009, 04:24 AM

Coming from PW made the job interviews really easy. Once they confirmed that I was a S2 in PW, there were really no doubts about my accounting skills or my ability to deal with pressure.

The company had a really good fast track program. However I was hired to fill a specific job vacancy (as an experienced hire), expected to hit the ground running and had to do a specific job. It took me several years to stabilise the job & dept I was hired into (get a succession plan in place) before I could convince the bosses to fast track me into other areas. Fresh graduates with good results & interviews don't have this problem as they are fast tracked initially and rotated (the lower performers drop out of the program gradually each year). So coming in as an experienced hire set me back a couple of years compared to my peers who are at a similar performance level. Having said that, if I were to compare myself with my non-fast track peers only, coming in from PW would have put me at 1 promotion higher than those starting as fresh graduates.

So I guess if you're good, go straight into the big MNCs' development programs. If you're more like average, get into the Big4 to get a little boost.

Do you mean the PWC is not promoting people fast enough?

I made S1 in my first year. I went to S2 in my 2nd year but when I was not promoted to AM in my 3rd year, I left for more money. I have very little patience when I'm being exploited.

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Added on November 22, 2009, 9:54 amI'm in a chemical MNC. One of these: Top 10 Chemical companies

What do you mean what qualification? Graduate and get yourself a degree.

If you're talking professional qualifications, it's not really necessary. My last 4 bosses all didn't have professional accounting qualifications. A couple of them even had broad finance degrees rather than accounting degrees.

But again, having more qualifications doesn't hurt. It may not help but it doesn't hurt. CPA is the one to get for US MNCs, For European ones, anyone will do.

In my opinion, internships are a waste of time.

If you have 4 years to spend... why not spend 3 years getting a degree and 1 year in a real job? You can put 1 year of full time fully qualified work experience into your resume.

No point spending 2 years working, 1 year as an intern, and 1 year studying. If I see a resume like this, I regard it as a 4 year degree program with no work experience.

This post has been edited by seantang: Nov 22 2009, 09:54 AM

can malaysia local grads in accountancy take professional cert like CPA Aus, ACCA or CFA in singapore?? Any restriction??

Accounting graduates from some specified local universities can get MIA membership (CA) directly without needing to obtain a professional qualification.

CPA Aust - not directly, but there is a reciprocal agreement between MIA and CPA Aust.

CFA? CPA Singapore (ICPAS you mean?) - not directly, but there is also a reciprocal agreement with MIA.

ACCA - anyone can get in as long as you didn't flunk secondary school. If I'm not mistaken, even if you happen to drop out of secondary school, you can take an accounting clerk course first (like CAT or LCCI) and then still get into ACCA. If I have a degree, ACCA will be the very last choice for me as there's no exclusivity at all.

Sean, if that is the case then UK is really different from Malaysia. All employers in the UK really expect student to have work experience before graduation. I was like.. what the heck? They really think that 4-year-course(2 year+1year placement+ final year) is better than (3 years studying and 1 year real work experience). But 1 thing for real is, placement in UK has no difference compared to real job. You will be given same workload, same responsibilities and you will be given real project to do.
And you said if you have a degree, ACCA will be the very last choice? What is your first choice then?

Does anyone know about PSW(Post-Study work)? I'm thinking whether I should apply this visa which allows me to stay in the UK after graduation for 2 years. In my opinion, working 2 years in UK can earn alot of $$, but after 2 years when i return to malaysia I have to start from 0 again. If the 2 years were spent in malaysia, I might be promoted already. It might depends on the situation.. If they still want you after 2 years they will apply visa for you, but this rarely happens as far as i know.

From the employer's perspective, they are choosing someone who has 2 years of study + 1 year of internship + 1 final year vs someone who has only 3 years of study. Of course they will choose someone who has some work experience. This of course assumes that the internship was full fledged work, unlike Malaysia where interns basically waste time each day to collect their travel allowance.

From an employee's perspective however, 2+1+1 is a real disadvantage vs 3+1. You start post graduation work 1 year later, earn a year of partial wage instead of full wage, and if your freshly graduated peers joined the company without an internship, you'd be 1 year older than them.

If I have a US degree, CPA. UK degree, CA. Australian degree, CA if I want to stay long in an audit firm, CPA if I want to go elsewhere. If I only have secondary school and absolutely no possibility of going to university, then ACCA.

Thanks Seantang , but heard that nowadays even you get MIA is nothing . Every grads from msia local uni can get MIA after work for 3 yrs, thats why I plan go for professional qualification. But I doubt MIA member can entitle for CPA title or ICPAS title. Mayb only CPA or ICPAS can enjoy MIA title only....

Because now working in singapore with msia local uni degree, so bit worried whether I can take CPA Aus exam in singapore or not, because I'm not grads from singapore uni. If need to take in Msia mayb quite troublesome for me...

After going through all your posts, my advice would be this:

- Don't do the 1 year placement

- Instead, try for a summer internship (application window should be open now). The interview and assessment process is far less rigorous than for a graduate position within the same company. The internship would typically be 8 weeks during your summer vacation (usually July-August). Perform well over the course of the internship and ace the interview at the end of it and you're guaranteed a graduate position right after you graduate! All you need to worry about is your academics in your third year.

Also, as an accounting grad it would be best for you to hone your skills in a Big4 firm as the client experience (soft skills) that you will get in the UK is invaluable. And you would be one of the lucky ones to be able to experience the tremendous support and training that the big4 in UK will provide. You can use time with the firm to decide what sort of client base you would like to have, which can help you determine the type of industry you could potentially specialise in in the future.

This post has been edited by cyclonova: Nov 24 2009, 07:19 AM

Cyclonova, after reading your advice I can tell you that you are 100% right as big companies including IBM, rolls royce etc in UK really provide very good support and guidance. You even assigned to a mentor(supervisor or manager) who will take care of you and guide you through the internship. The experience you get during the internship is really valuable. But.. the problem is.. it's hard to get one. 1 internship/placement application comprises of not less than 4 essays. My girlfriend put in alot of time on the application process(3-5 hours each) and the next day she got rejected due to not having a driving license. So I've made up my mind not to waste my time to get an internship in UK and i'll apply intern in M'sia instead. But in m'sia, interns/placement = do general work like photoshat, mix tea, do this do that, not learning anything. My friend experienced it and i believe that is happening in m'sia.

Sorry, I have no idea how to use the quote thing.

Txi: Personally...I dont think that it is easier or not. Since they surely have a standardized answer sheet, but I feel nowadays EVERYONE has ACCA, which will render it useless soon. Just like what a degree used to be the last time.

Seantang: The CEO, CFO debate, I was merely quoting what I was informed by the ICAEW reps when I spoke to them. What I meant was, ACCA is grooming you more on the financial side, while the ACA by ICAEW does not solely focus on the financial side only.

My suggestion is that, speak to the persons in charge personally. That will be better. Get the course outline and all. You will definitely get a better outlook.

And btw, ACCA / ACA cannot be compared to CFA. Both applies to different industries.

It's just a matter of what the professional associations think of themselves vs what the market thinks of them. To me, it depends on who's paying your salary. The professional association or the employer.

The market perception is that the reverse is true.

Depends on which market you're speaking of.

But then again, no professional qualifications can groom you to be a CEO or CFO anyway. It's all up to you yourself. Mindless discussion we have here. Haha.

The one that pays the bills.

An internship with the Big4 in the UK usually comprises of the following application steps:

1) Online application form
2) Online numerical/verbal reasoning test
3) Assessment centre (group discussion, report-writing)
4) Senior manager / partner interview

Personally I went through all of the above and still managed to juggle it with my studies simultaneously - along with many others before me. So it's not as hard as it sounds. As long as you do your research and keep your commercial awareness up-to-date you should be fine. You do not have to spend 5 hours a day on preparing for applications. What you have to do is:

- Enhance commercial awareness (be aware of the news in the marketplace, and how your employer firm is involved in the market)
- Do research on the firm you are being interviewed with (newspaper, internet, firm website, annual report are good sources of info)
- Practise online tests

Also, you do not need to apply for a work permit for an 2-month internship position. If you get a graduate position with the firm should you do well over the course of your internship and ace the final interview, your visa (Tier 2 General Migrant) fees will be sponsored by the firm via a Certificate of Sponsorship.

Cyclonova, can I know which year did you do your internship in the UK and with what company with what pose? I'm just curios maybe want to trt the one you've tried before =)
Thanks for your advice i'll bear them in mind and will follow them, if i fail to get one then you have to get me one ( haha.. just joking)

Yesterday after lectures I walked around the building(university) and I accidentally found that my university is promoting a diploma called AAT(Association of Accounting Technicians). Without putting time to read in details, I went home just like normal. On my way home, I feel like something I just missed out(I saw that on ICAEW website) and that might be the opportunity to enhance my qualification and to help me with my future career. So I googled it and I found that this AAT is actually the route to ACA. They call it AAT-ACA route. I was very excited when I saw that i'll get more exemption(apart from my degree). So I need to ask some of you who know about AAT and i wonder it is adviceable to take it together with my degree. This is because someone claimed that it is not really benificial to me since i'm doing accounting and finance degree.

I was working in EY London in the summer of 2008 (July-August) within Assurance. PM me if you want.

As for the AAT, consider how much time you need to take to study it. In the UK, the most natural route for grads is to graduate with a degree (some even with non accounting-related ones) and do the ACA thereafter. You sound a bit reluctant to go straight into the ACA after graduation. Trust me, many people before you and before me have done it so it's not impossible. Everything requires a bit of effort, really.

Thanks for your help but i'm in manchester dont really want to go to london. Did they offer you a graduate position? From what you just said I guess you are fresh graduate right? Did you stay in uk or malaysia after graduated?

Erm.. not to say i'm reluctant to get ACA straight away, i'm just looking for a more secure way because I know I lacked of so many things when compared to others. With AAT-ACA route, I will be having AAT diploma before I get an ACA.

hi there.

hope some one can help me.


need advice from seantang too. after reading your post about your stint at pwc and a chem mnc, would you suggest that i study for the ACCA or ICAEW?

i have just finished my SPM and A level. i scored straight A1 for spm and 3 A's for A level in biology (600/600), chemistry(595/600) and maths (593/600).

i am interested in accounting and i was actually planning to study ACCA at sunway. when they saw my results, they suggest that i try out their ICAEW ACA course.

they gave me a list of employers that are ACA approved and some of them are MNC. not sure which ones but they mention that it includes mnc.


for acca, i will study full time. but for ICAEW ACA, i will have to work for an employer. part of ACA's requirement.

will I be able to work without any accounting background? sunway said that they had few students from A levels doing it. but will i be able to work at MNC's?

what would you suggest me to do? i need some advice and hope you can help.

thanks.

I thought you need at least a first class or second upper degree to begin with?

Can you apply with only A-Level result?

And you need to be employed by the approved trainee provider such as Big 4 and MNC companies (With qualified CA) in order to join this prog.

My suggesstion:
1. Get the facts right, is it compulsory to have a degree to join the ICAEW prog?
2. Can you get an employment with the Big 4/MNC using A-Level qualification?
3. Thirdly, you may try to apply to Sunway Group or Genting as they have ICAEW prog as well.

1)yes. it is possible to do it straight after A levels in UK.it is only in malaysia that they usually require a degree. sunway said that because my A level result was good, they suggest that i join ICAEW directly.

2) that is the problem. sunway said that they can help forward my cv to employers that are affiliated with sunway. but ultimately it is up to me coz i have to first go through their interview etc. that is why i am asking if i should study ACCA coz i dont have to work or should i go through all the trouble of securinh a job and then study for ICAEW

3) they do offer but i still have to secure a job with them under this programe first.


so should i study acca or icaew?

Dude... where did you get the information from? I'm in the UK now and I'm 100% sure that ACA has to be begun with a degree of 2:1 and above. It is such a waste for you not to study abroad. If I had the same result as you, I would have applied any famous UK university like LSC for the scholarship and then finish a degree and begin my ACA in any ACA approved company. Yes, this is the best way for you rather than joining sunway because they are ****. Believe me, spend some time to apply for good UK university, you can easily get any with your result. Really such a waste for you to begin with sunway, or in malaysia

it's stated in the ICAEW web. you can start straight from A levels. It is common over there in UK.

The problem with UK university is that they only offer partial scholarship in the form of tuition fee waivers. even if I am lucky enough to secure myself a scholarship, they do not provide scholarships for living expenses.

I am not interested in loans coz right now I am already in debt to the government. I was actually under JPA studying pharmacy in nottingham, UK( not my choice ). I was suckered into the whole idea that pharmacy was a good career choice. I was young and naive when i took it. I did not even research about the career possibility of becoming a pharmacist.

I know, silly me. Now I have to carry the burden of that 1 f***ing mistake i made years ago. eventually i left after studying 1 semester. I went backpacking straight after that to discover what i'm interested in. and by some wierd f***ing encounter during my trip, i got interested in the business side of education. it's a long story and you might doze of if i continue babbling about it.

so yeah, I can't afford the luxury of a loan. n i am basically blacklisted from the government list for any future scholarship application. I know, i'm f***ed thoroughly (front, back, mouth, ear, anywhere they can stuff their fat f***ing cock, you get the point).

instead of crying over spilt guinness, i decided to pull my self together and start all over again. that is how i ended up in sunway.

Btw, i'm currently studying acca here in sunway. As you said, it's a shitty shit place to get an education. but it's the best i could get considering my circumstances.

i hope that i can get a full scholarship to study in UK. but until i can find one, i'd just have to suck it up and go through with the whole course.

Anyway, thanks for the update. Sometimes i just wish i was born rich and dun have to f***ing worry about money. oh well, life sucks n there's nothing we can do about it.

peace!

This post has been edited by 88XAVIERX88: Feb 19 2010, 06:24 PM

I think you are mistaken, usually to start ACA you need a upper second degree (but some medium/smaller firms in the UK will allow you with a lower second). But to start AAT you can do so after A Levels.

But a degree is so much better than AAT, if you comparing like for like, and with a good degree you can get up to 8 excemptions from ACA (i only got 7). And a degree is a better foundation for any career, compared to AAT which is very accountancy/audit/finance based.

Not too sure about the standard of Sunway when it comes to ACA but i have seen students from Malaysia in London studying for their final 3 papers, sent by their respective firms of course, which in turn implies Sunway has the lack of tutors who can teach the case study papers or the pass rates are awful.

This post has been edited by KillMeNow: Feb 19 2010, 09:36 PM

I have 9 exemptions for ACCA upon completion of degree =)

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Added on November 12, 2011, 3:02 amOh ya, forgot to update. I have got a placement offer 6 months after I posted this thread. Now I have finished my placement and am doing my final year =)

This post has been edited by Chuanmok: Nov 12 2011, 03:02 AM

Dear all folks

Listen to me very carefully
If you are planning to do aca or acca or cima or cfa there will be oppartunity everywhere
If you want to do acca than do it, don't wait for somebody, same way if you want to do aca than do it don't wait for some1 reply

Now let me tell you about my side as i am holding bachler and appearing in ACCA final and i am opting this time p1 and p3 rest are cleared,
I am also planning to do CFA to get broader prespective added in my resume and also appearing here in india master's in accounting

While this year if i complete both of them so nextt year planning to start CFA because no one still know that CFA is tougher than ACCA but as i have completed i read the books of CFA level 1
which means i don't take coaching for ACCA and i won't take coaching for CFA level 1.

Now let me tell you more than if you can work and study part time anywhere than 1 year of practice or study will make you pass in CFA level 2.
Which means you can gain experience and study part time according to your convinience but take a year to complete CFA level2

Now let say CFA level 3 which is very hard compared to any other qualification but after 1 or 2 years of experience in job and study will make you pass in CFA level 3

I can now provide you difference between ACA and ACCA and CIMA

[B]If you complete ACCA and have 2 years of experience in field than you GET CLEAR EXEMPTIONS IN ACA DEGREE WHICH MEANS YOU DON'T HAVE TO APPEAR FOR ACA AND GET DEGREE

So, who is better ACA or ACCA
[SIZE=14][COLOR=green][FONT=Arial]
[/B]

Now let me tell you something about UK in UK if you have done ACCA than also you get better prospectus dhan ACA so my advise is to do ACCA and CFA it will give you edge in Accounting. because i have concern my tutor who is ACCA and currently appering in CFA level 2. He is having vast knowledge in Accounting.

also let me know on my email address if you have any concern regarding courses.

s_acharya2003@yahoo.co.in

then what is your point about cima??

it's then..not than
it's convenience....not convinience.

Btw, we shouldn't compare CFA with other prof acc exam (ACCA, ACA, CIMA).
Prof acc exam is to produce accountants whilst CFA exam is not to produce accountants but to equip people who wants to venture into investment/financial or other related fields.

Both ACCA & ACA or CIMA are the same but can you explain the one highlighted in orange? I don't really understand what you meant.


This post has been edited by White Knight: Jan 26 2012, 09:53 PM

As u said ACCA likes so easy, why dont u go and try out taking the papers?

Take ICAEW. Even if you obtained ACCA and want to work in UK you are way back in the line. UK companies prefer ICAEW. If you want to stand out in the crowd and have a career goal of reaching management level in accounting firm go for ICAEW. ACCA is just too common and examination is not as hard as ICAEW.

Based on my experience and networking advice. Going to left out my last 5 ACCA paper and pursue ICAEW. =D

ACCA & ICAEW have the same syllabus content & exam difficulty. Both are equally acceptable in the UK employment market including CIMA. Some Big 4 & other large medium firms in UK have already shunned ICAEW & prefer ACCA instead. To have somebody says ICAEW > ACCA is an old boys thought....15 years ago maybe it was true but time & job market development have changed everything. It has turned in favour of ACCA instead. That's why in the last 7 years, ICAEW has tried in vain to forge a merger with CIMA & CIPFA but failed. ICAEW will still continue to do so to regain back the lost 'crown'. The Pathway Membership offered by ICAEW to ACCA, CIMA plus other bodies is a clear evidence that they want to regain back their lost 'crown'.

If you look at the accounting job advertisements in UK, all the 3 bodies ie ICAEW/ACCA/CIMA are equally preferred. There're only a small number of job advertisements that specifically mention only prefer ACCA or ICAEW or CIMA.

There're 3 exam sittings for ICAEW in a year & it's a open book exam.

There're only 2 exam sittings for ACCA in a year & it's a closed book exam. Every knowledge, theories, principles, applications etc must be at finger tips. If you bring a book into the ACCA exam, you will be barred from the exam & be considered cheating.

ICA Scotland is the most prestigious in UK & in the world as well. It has the same passing rate with ACCA approx 30% - 35% for the final few papers. I also agree that there're more & more new students or fresh uni grads go for ACCA but they don't realise that casualties & disasters are waiting for them in the final level. By the time they realise it, they will completely give up by saying 'I should had gone for a uni degree instead' or 'I should had gone for a master degree instead & shouldn't stress myself with acca' or 'failing the acca exam repeatedly is very demoralised' . Sometimes I find that the final 4 acca optional papers can dampen any chances of passing....meaning to say that if a student fails 1 opt paper, then he/she will try out the luck at other opt papers. If it goes on & on, in the end the student will be completely lost & confused with no solution.

ICAEW has a much higher passing rate approx 75% - 80%.

Btw, I don't belong to UK bodies. I belong to Australian bodies, ICA Aust & CPA Aust. (Fyi, CPA Aust is not wanted by any employers in Aust.)

Really the same syllabus? If is true then I'm going for ICAEW.
Top accounting firm in UK prefer ICAEW though. Cant be 100% sure but that is what my friend said. (EY UK).
Acca is so common these days. Want to take something different. =D

ICAEW has a higher pass rate because the average quality of the students doing it are higher.

I cannot prove the top UK firms do not discriminate in favour of an ACA, but I'm an ACCA and had no problems securing interviews with the Big 4 here. Although I couldn't get through their selection process, I don't think its because I'm an ACCA.

Corrected

Whether ACCA or ICAEW, you will make it. All the best in your study. Commitment is the key to pass & not how intelligent a person is.

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Added on April 27, 2012, 9:01 amThis is the old boys thought.

ICA Scotland is the most prestigious, not ICAEW nor ACCA.
ICA Scotland has the same passing rate with ACCA....does it mean that students doing ICA Scotland are of lower quality?

The reason for high passing rate for ICAEW is because they set a high passing quota. You can see their passing rate is very consistent in every sitting ard 75% - 80% or sometimes higher.

Recent research conducted for both acca & icaew students requiring them to sit for both acca & icaew final exams for analysis purposes. The result shows that both acca & icaew students do equally well & bad in the exam papers tested. ICAEW students do slightly better in Financial acctg & auditing papers. ACCA students do slightly better in management accounting & financial strategy papers. Both do equally good & bad in taxation paper. Conclusion is all students are equal, the passing quota set is the determinant factor.

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Added on April 27, 2012, 9:21 amRegardless which bodies you belong, everyone has equal chance. Try again, don't give up.



This post has been edited by White Knight: Apr 27 2012, 09:21 AM

Hi Im about to finish my university at a rather tough university and I manage to secure only a 2.2 . Is it still possible to take the ACA route? Will companies take self sponsorship candidate while giving the training?

This post has been edited by minde: May 2 2012, 12:44 AM

Hi all, I would need some advise on whether to take up ACA or ACCA. I am afraid that firms in Malaysia do not know ACA as ACCA are more well known in this region.

I plan to be an accountant in Malaysia and also an economist at the same. I have obtained an economic degree and is currently employed in the financial sector as an account exec and will stay in the financial sector until I leave the corporate world.

My employer is one of the ATEs for ACA and this would be an advantage for me to do the training. After obtaining my professional qualification I will move on with a master degree in economics.

However, I plan to stay in the corporate world only until my mid-40s and go on with a career in lecturing in the future. Considering all this, which of these two qualification will be more suitable for me?

Both ACA/ACCA are the same.

Why don't you consider CPA?

Hi there,

Lots of advice going around here - some more accurate than others

1. You don't need a 2:1 to do ACA. Heck, you don't even need a degree. I have a 3rd class degree from a top 5 UK university (yeah I sucked at degree) but did the ICAEW with a Big 4 (but wasn't sponsored). You just have to work very hard. I had a classmate who didn't even have a degree - he went in straight after A-levels. He passed a lot quicker than the ones with degrees.

2. You don't need an accounting degree to do ACA. My group started with about 20 people. Only 1 person finished without having to retake any papers. He was an IT graduate from UPM.

3. ACA vs ACCA - this is my PERSONAL opinion (so try to hold off the guns). If you are looking for technical drilling and strong technical accounting skills, do the ACCA. If you're looking for minimum accounting skills, more management type skills (this would be relevant for those who are in mgmt more than in Accounting practice), do CIMA. If you're looking for a balance, do ICAEW.

Having friends who have done ICAEW, then failed, then did ACCA, and also failed, I think, as much as ACA is more prestigious, it isnt really that much harder. It's just different. The emphasis is on applied knowledge more than technical skills.

One of the ICAEW papers is famous for the following mantra - the more you study the text book, the more you will fail, because its about using that knowledge to get higher skills.

The real reason why I think ICAEW is perceived to be difficult is because its a paper you have to do while you work (at least you did when I took it a few years ago). The challenge is balancing time and study. And also because you have worked, you have better application of that knowledge you learn.

At the end of the day, I would also like to say (given that I'm now in human capital development - I used to do Audit, Corporate Finance and Investment Banking) don't rush too much, unless you have huge financial commitments. Don't always go for the paper with the most exemptions. There is a reason why sometimes those people with exemptions dont do well at the higher level papers.

Knowledge needs time to take root. If you take shortcuts, you might move faster in the early stages, but you will find gaps as you progress further along your career. I have had staff who were ACCA graduates at 20, working under me in Audit, but ohmygod, they had no common sense, no work ethics, no maturity. I almost strangled them! I found that, compared to those who came out at 23, having done a degree, then started their professional qualifications, the super-fast young ones struggled greatly while working, and somehow fell short as they progressed up the corporate ladder.

In any case, if anyone wants to ask questions, I'm quite happy to answer questions. Email is nikyazmin at gmail dot com.

Have a great day!

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Added on June 5, 2012, 4:15 pmI'd like to clarify - not all exams in ICAEW are open book. And ironically, for the open book exams, the mantra is that if you have time to open the book, you'll very likely fail haha.

I don't think one is better than the other. Its just different emphasis.

And yes, ICAS is the hardest exam in the world for professional qualifications. Mostly because you have to take all the papers (at the final stage, I think) at one go, and must pass all at one go. Which is a little insane.

This post has been edited by nikyazmin: Jun 5 2012, 04:15 PM

pee weet....agree, it makes sense.

Cima is the hardest. U cannot spot question

Hi there

I am a new joiner in this forum.

I am a local uni student with degree in accounting who have just graduated. I have just been offered a job as an auditor at one of the malaysia's Big 4. The firm also asked me which professional qualification that i would like to pursue as they are willing to sponsor my study. Initially, I just thought of taking ACCA as few of my sibling are also currently taking the papers, hence it's gonna be easier for me to get references.

However, the firm also asked me whether I would like to consider taking ICAEW, given my good results in degree, as they told me it has more holistic approach compared to ACCA since it involves training in addition to paper exams.

I did some researches on those two professional qualifications and found out that from the local university degree that I have, I am eligible up to 10 papers exemption for ACCA. However I am not sure of how many papers that I will be exempted for ICAEW. Since this firm is also one of the ICAEW's authorised training employers (ATE), is it better for me if I just take ICAEW?

Can any one give me suggestion or advice?

Thanks=)

Hi, to me anyhow also the ACCA would be the step stone for us to go higher.

Is there anyone know how many times can we re-register to ACCA to continue? Coz I have stop it half way many times already, then re-register also many time already.

The last time I re-register at 2010, my student card stated that my final exam must finish at year 2017??? Now already end 2012, I only pass 5 paper, still have balance of 9 paper.