There is no way of sugar coating it really. It was a pathetic result. Almost losing to a team in the bottom 5, at home? Sure we have injuries but in reina, agger, skrtel, johnson, benayoun, kuyt, mascherano n riera we have 8 internationals. We should still be expected to win should we not? One win in nine?

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Added on November 10, 2009, 8:03 amFor those coming in here wondering why that **** got reported... No harm in coming in and talking about the dive. A fact is indeed a fact but when u come in with the clear intent of stirring up something, you cross the line, its that simple really. Geeze mancs in particular would know right? Even if I wrote a post with content, I'd still get violent objections if I said ronaldo dived.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Nov 10 2009, 08:03 AM

I know it's already been discussed but I couldn't find an opportunity to post until now. I think the overreaction to N'Gog's dive is a farce! Heaps of players dive but when N'Gog did, he made the sports headlines on all local dailies. I never saw Ronaldo get this much press! What about Drogba??? Suddenly there's a call for a review on diving??? It's victimisation, nothing more.

Not much to add. I just have to echo that the way we defended against the Adebayor goal was criminal. No one picked him up from even before the corner was taken. I know we're meant to mark spaces but you can't at the same time leave an aerial threat alone can you?

The first half was an absolute borefest and although we may have been unluckly with injuries early on, we never really gave Shay Given a lot to do. Not enough to justify us deserving to win the game anyway. While we were unlucky when Ireland scored, we were also somewhat fortuitous with our goal when the ball managed to find it's way through to Benayoun after it was deflected.

I'm guessing you aren't a Liverpool supporter since you refer to us as "they".

You're completely missing the point though. That statement wasn't meant to be a fact. It's meant to suggest that the reason we've stood by our team despite not having won the league for 20 years, is that we will always have hope in our hearts.

I have to ask. What is your loyalty to whichever club you support based on then?

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Nov 23 2009, 03:37 PM

Dude, all I have to say is that you've made some comments without providing much insight. Now, everyone knows I have my grouses with Rafa but the points you've raised leads me to believe you've not really looked into the situation hard enough.

Why hasn't Benayoun started every match this season? Well to my recollection he has started whenever he's fit with the exception of one or two games.

Why is Babel shite after coming here? Maybe he'll be shite when he leaves, who knows?

Carra too old or plays without a brain? I'm not sure where you're coming from. Carra is 33 which isn't exactly old for a centreback. Plays without a brain? I think you forget the number of times he's covered his partner at the back by anticipating balls played into the area. I've lost count the number of times I've seen him sprint across the box to make a timely intervention.

Not saying I don't agree were playing like crap but your points are a little inaccurate if you ask me.

Despite the arguments that have been put forth in support of Skrtel, it's hard to deny that he's been a pale shadow of himself after twice being turned over by England while representing his native country. I personally expect him to be a little more dominant in the air given his frame. His positional sense has also been suspect this season. Maybe it's a temporary loss in form, or maybe it's the way the game has changed but I think that in general, many centrebacks are beginning to make an increasing number of mistakes as forwards get quicker and faster.

That all being said, we have become really suspect in the air.

I think this is an astute observation. I'm not surprised it didn't come from a Liverpool fan because sometimes we need to look at situations from a neutral perspective to pick up on these things. Some of you may already have seen Ryan Babel's outburst in the media. If this is all true, it is a cause of real concern indeed. Let's look at what I think it the main point.

Cliques amongst players
He has basically said that the lads have pocket groups. The Spanish lads along with Dirk Kuyt hang out together. Babel hangs out with Lucas and Benayoun. This isn't healthy. It affects how the team plays on the pitch. Players are reluctant to pass to another who isn't a buddy of theirs. It's why Babel says he think of shooting first most of the time because he doesn't receive the ball as often as he would like to especially when in scoring positions.

Why is this disturbing you ask? If you look at the England setup, it all fell apart when players stopped communicating during training sessions, and had their own cliques. Not only did communication off the pitch cease, it stopped on the pitch as well and there was no cohesion in the team. Is it a wonder they aren't the power house they used to be? Is the same thing happening at Liverpool now?

We all know that Rafa isn't one to focus on one's emotional state of mind but perhaps it's time he does?

I disagree. McMahon's comments reinforces my perception of him, that he is thick. Also, he doesn't mince his words if he has something negative to say about the team or Rafa.

Are you deprived of attention?

I'd settle for defenders who are good in the air at the moment.

Speaking of the media, didya read the writeup on today's Star? There was a picture from the game but no review of the game. Fine so Arsenal vs Chelsea is a bigger game but heck, this is the Merseyside derby!

Well we certainly made the headlines when N'Gog dived! This was Liverpool winning 2-0 at Goodison! Forget that Everton are shite at the moment, this was the Merseyside Derby,. the longest running top flight derby! Couldn't even give us a, "oh and incidentally, Liverpool beat some team in blue in an all Merseyside affair". Freaking manc loving journos there intentionally source articles from the S*N if you ask me. Is it a myth that they are mancs? No! Friend of ours is a journalist from the Star.

To be honest, I don't think Gerrard is that good a dribbler either. He is at his best when he is in full stride, knocking the ball into space away from defenders and chasing it down. Benayoun has the best close control by a country mile.

I've no doubt that Torres has settled in at the club and wants to win things with us. I'm just afraid that the at some point, our business minded owners will succumb to the lure of the green.

Well that's why some Liverpool fans didn't want to sell Heskey. He holds the ball up well and thus provides a good outlet when we need to boot the ball up the park. In the end though he went on a 32 game +/- scoreless streak because if you think about it, not conceding goals will ensure you don't lose games, but scoring goals help you win.

Hmm so Babel gave an interview to the s*n. We going to give him the Souness treatment now?

On the Lucas issue, the way I see it is everyone agrees he isn't good enough for the first team, if we are to compete at the highest level. He may be one day, but he ain't right now. The only difference is that some sympathise with his predicament while others could not give a rats arse.

Back in the day we once went through and entire season using only 14 players. Sure we play more games today, but still... 40 odd games is a tough ask when you only used 3 subs the whole time. Ask Phil Neal how many consecutive games he played for us and this was back then players boozed, two footed tackles were allowed, elbow went flying all the time, and challenges from behind were encouraged. Even then he played 365 consecutive games for the club, playing in EVERY league game during his tenure! I think that players today are somewhat spoilt.

Which is the reason Carra gets a lot of praise. He shuns the limelight and watches football videos in his spare time when everyone else is out shooting an underwear commercial, or attending parties with an entourage of bimbos in tow.

Are we talking about the same Xabi Alonso here? You don't get lucky over the course of an entire season. Hmm your comments are kind of suspect especially after you claimed that Alonso dribbles a lot. Does the name Jan Molby ring a bell? Alonso sprays passes just like the Dane did, only he has better mobility. As they say, why run when you can let the ball do the running for you? I guess I have to respect your opinion, but I strongly feel you must be watching someone else because the Alonso I know and have watched all this time, is worth all the hype. I'm wondering if you're even watching the right sport.

On a seperate note, I was just watching KopTV on channel 816 earlier this morning. I just missed the 15 min segment on top 10 keepers to have played for us. The second 15 min segment was on the top 10 English players to have played for us as voted by the fans. My memories not what it used to be, but I think the sequence is as follows:-

10) Tommy Smith - The Anfield Iron! England's answer to Greame Souness.
9) Phil Neal - Nice chap some of us got to meet a couple of years ago over beer. Check out his medal tally. 365 consecutive games!
8) Ian Callaghan
7) Phil Thompson - Liverpool through and through. Stand up and be counted Pinnochio!
6) Emelyn Hughes - Crazy horse! Jamie Carragher part v.1
5) Robbie Fowler - God, enuff said. To me, our most natural finisher of all time.
4) Roger Hunt - Goalscoring supreme
3) John Barnes - seriously, those of you who think we never had a quality left winger, please youtube him, especially his goal against Brazil. My first favourite player.
2) Kevin Keegan - Mighty Mouse!
1) Steven Gerrard - who else?

I may have screwed up the order a little but that's the gist of it.

A couple of days ago, we were talking about how footballers these days are pampered and how very few are willing to play through the pain barrier. On that note, I think special mention deserves to be given to Gerry Byrne:-