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 Need Help - Speaker Power Handling, Need Help - Speaker Power Handling

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SiriuslyCold
post Oct 23 2009, 09:48 AM

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let's work backwards for a bit...

you want your system to do 85db SPL (that is reference level, normal listening is usually some way below that, like 75db SPL)

so 85db SPL output, and you are sitting what, 3m away from the front.

now, JBL Northridges are fairly efficient, about 90db/w/m

then we plug these figures into this calculator (http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/designt...ect-pwr-req.htm) and give it 3db headroom,

it turns out you only need about 6W steady output, really.

Even if you up the headroom to 9db (meaning when there's a explosion or something, it goes to 94db SPL) you will only need 23W per channel.

So the Onkyo, rating at 185 W (6Ω, 1 kHz, 1 channel driven, JEITA) probably translates to max 60W 6Ω 20Hz - 20kHz all channels driven has more than enough power.

This post has been edited by SiriuslyCold: Oct 23 2009, 09:50 AM
anfieldude
post Oct 23 2009, 09:50 AM

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QUOTE(SiriuslyCold @ Oct 23 2009, 09:48 AM)
let's work backwards for a bit...

you want your system to do 85db SPL (that is reference level, normal listening is usually some way below that, like 75db SPL)

so 85db SPL outout, and you are sitting what, 3m away from the front.

now, JBL Northridges are fairly efficient, about 90db/w/m

then we plug these figures into this calculator (http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/designtools/elect-pwr-req.htm) and give it 3db headroom,

it turns out you only need about 6W steady output, really.

Even if you up the headroom to 9db (meaning when there's a explosion or something, it goes to 85+9 = 94db SPL) you will only need 23W per channel.

So the Onkyo, rating at 185 W (6 Ω, 1 kHz, 1 channel driven, JEITA) probably translates to max 60W 6 Ω 20Hz - 20kHz all channels driven has more than enough power.
*
Excellent explanation...Most speakers that are of high efficiency are easy to drive...

Actually, a lot of japanese AVRs overstate their power quite a bit.
SiriuslyCold
post Oct 23 2009, 09:56 AM

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Its more like testing with limited parameters and publishing the results of that. I'm sure Onkyo and JEITA can verify 185W per channel but the fine print says its 1kHz one channel driven.

so, feed a 1kHz signal to one channel of the amp and test output, sure can get 185W. But a video / music programme is never a steady 1kHz, and never 1 channel only.

So its 20Hz - 20kHz to 8 channels ... nobody publishes those results.

Vinceyang
post Oct 23 2009, 12:16 PM

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Sirius and anfiel, thanks for the explanation.

YOu sure had brighten up my doubt.

Yup, I had search high and low thru the web, never found anyone publish the power rating of 8ohm impedence with all channel driven for Onkyo older model...

Onkyo seems likes to play trick with their rating figure to the novice user biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Vinceyang: Oct 23 2009, 12:17 PM
SiriuslyCold
post Oct 23 2009, 12:59 PM

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QUOTE(Vinceyang @ Oct 23 2009, 12:16 PM)

Onkyo seems likes to play trick with their rating figure to the novice user biggrin.gif
*
to be fair, all manufacturers do this with the AV receivers. Partly because consumers WHAT to see a lot of power output even when they don't really need it. For example, people have had good sound from stereo integrated amplifiers putting out only 20W or 40W maciimum

(I also forgot to mention that into 8Ω the output will be even lower.. biggrin.gif
jchong
post Oct 23 2009, 01:26 PM

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QUOTE(SiriuslyCold @ Oct 23 2009, 09:48 AM)
let's work backwards for a bit...

you want your system to do 85db SPL (that is reference level, normal listening is usually some way below that, like 75db SPL)

so 85db SPL output, and you are sitting what, 3m away from the front.

now, JBL Northridges are fairly efficient, about 90db/w/m

then we plug these figures into this calculator (http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/designt...ect-pwr-req.htm) and give it 3db headroom,

it turns out you only need about 6W steady output, really.

Even if you up the headroom to 9db (meaning when there's a explosion or something, it goes to 94db SPL) you will only need 23W per channel.

So the Onkyo, rating at 185 W (6Ω, 1 kHz, 1 channel driven, JEITA) probably translates to max 60W 6Ω 20Hz - 20kHz all channels driven has more than enough power.
*
That's a useful tool you found. Thanks.

Just one note about what you wrote on reference level. The 75 dB level for reference is just average volume. U need to also factor in the power requirements for the peaks, which can reach +30 dB above the average volume (up to 105 dB per Dolby standards).

So using the same calculator, you will need 285W for peaks (assuming you listen at reference level).

SiriuslyCold
post Oct 23 2009, 02:02 PM

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105db is for the LFE channel, IIRC so you need a sub with >300W (if all other things remain the same)
anfieldude
post Oct 23 2009, 02:20 PM

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QUOTE(SiriuslyCold @ Oct 23 2009, 02:02 PM)
105db is for the LFE channel, IIRC so you need a sub with >300W (if all other things remain the same)
*
The subwoofer normally has its out power amp to cater for this. So 85dB calculation for front speakers are more than loud enuf.

For music, the recordings do not need the +30dB headroom. Its mainly a movie thingy (Dolby IIRC)
jchong
post Oct 23 2009, 07:57 PM

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QUOTE(SiriuslyCold @ Oct 23 2009, 02:02 PM)
105db is for the LFE channel, IIRC so you need a sub with >300W (if all other things remain the same)
*
Actually LFE channel peak is 115dB (+10 more than the mains).


Added on October 23, 2009, 7:58 pm
QUOTE(anfieldude @ Oct 23 2009, 02:20 PM)
The subwoofer normally has its out power amp to cater for this. So 85dB calculation for front speakers are more than loud enuf.

For music, the recordings do not need the +30dB headroom. Its mainly a movie thingy (Dolby IIRC)
*
Yeah, the +30dB headroom is more for movies.

This post has been edited by jchong: Oct 23 2009, 07:58 PM
naughtyz
post Oct 28 2010, 03:58 PM

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to all sifu...i have a noobie question :-

Me now using Pioneer A400x amplifier with this spec

Power Rating : 60 Watts per channel (8 Ohms)
Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.03% at 20Hz-20kHz
Frequency Response: 5Hz-100 kHz (CD, Tuner, Aux, Tape)
Signal to Noise: 88 db
Power Consumption: 520 watts
Dimensions (WxDxH) : 42 x 35.2 x 12.6 cm
Weight: 8.0 kg
and i would like to match with the speaker that TS using right now
B&W DM602, Is it should be ok? I try to understand the meaning of all discussion but i seriously i not understand still..
arremie
post Oct 28 2010, 04:36 PM

hmm...
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I use to worry about this then but now my tube amp is only 15wpc and driving my 125w rms speaker without any problem but I usually never listen past 10 o'clock on the dial.

Basic rule is if you only listen at normal to moderate volume you dont have to worry about this stuff smile.gif
naughtyz
post Oct 28 2010, 04:54 PM

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QUOTE(arremie @ Oct 28 2010, 05:36 PM)
I use to worry about this then but now my tube amp is only 15wpc and driving my 125w rms speaker without any problem but I usually never listen past 10 o'clock on the dial.

Basic rule is if you only listen at normal to moderate volume you dont have to worry about this stuff smile.gif
*
yup...that is so truth but the problem is i using mixer tu turn the volume up n down because i am mixing song. should be no problem?
arremie
post Oct 28 2010, 05:24 PM

hmm...
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no idea bro. im a simple guy. i dont use blender biggrin.gif
htkaki
post Oct 28 2010, 05:29 PM

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QUOTE(arremie @ Oct 28 2010, 05:24 PM)
no idea bro. im a simple guy. i dont use blender biggrin.gif
*
LOL laugh.gif

On another note, our friend Saprozeldo MIA. Kiam also hilang. Wonder what system that they are using now hmm.gif
arremie
post Oct 28 2010, 06:47 PM

hmm...
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talked to sapro a while back. still using same stuff smile.gif
car_o_scope
post Oct 28 2010, 10:52 PM

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What should be the appropriate headroom value for music?

 

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