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Science Can ghost be scientifically measured?

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Awakened_Angel
post Oct 5 2009, 09:22 PM

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QUOTE(slasherbaven @ Oct 5 2009, 09:40 PM)
Alright to stick with the topic...

Okay, so to measure something, you obviously need that something existing in order to be measured, right?

Now before we go into question whether ghosts exist or not, I'm sure we all have heard traditional ways we could do in order to "see" these elusive creatures. I only know of two:

1) Visit graveyards/place of known haunting late at night.
2) Rub dog/horse tears in your eyes.
3) Ouija board

Frankly, I've tried all three, and the result is null. I've asked a few friends, and one of them told me this:

If you want to see them, you can't. If you don't want to see them, you can. Why? Humans have an invisible (something I forgot what he said) on their head and shoulders, that disappears when they are scared. Obviously you can't see la...

Scientifically, that is artfully absurd but I didn't want to offend him.
So before we go into MEASURING, maybe someone would like to find a way to be able to see, or at least get into a presence with the ghosts and hope they are kind enough to lend a hand in some tests to gain a measuring method.

I mean what have they got to be afraid of? They're dead.
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at this rate, its useless to debate as all I can say is our technology is not advance enough to measure something that our 5 senses cant detect

Awakened_Angel
post Oct 6 2009, 03:32 PM

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QUOTE(slasherbaven @ Oct 6 2009, 01:27 AM)
It's not technology. It's simple logic.

I mean, look at aliens. We can't prove Roswell concretely without hard evidence, but if suddenly an alien comes to you and says "Operate me!",  you'll definitely find methods of operations.
No aliens, no method of operation.

Same here: no ghosts, no method of operation.
Hell yeah.
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don`t you know that TECHNOLOGY is just ONE of many ways that thing operate??

take warcraft for example... you have undead, elf, human and org.. all operate in different ways.... some interate with things around them...

it is foolish to take what we human comprehend aboutthe world as ruler to measure the universe... though we always say look back, we`re advance.. but how?? not much

Added on October 6, 2009, 3:34 pm
QUOTE(sp@wn @ Oct 6 2009, 02:32 PM)
how does one measure things that dont exist?
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change method of measurement.. simple as that...

IF your eye cant detect infra red, it doesn`t mean it does not exist.. just that you need to change the mode of measurement.. for this case, human have no IDEA at all on what to pin point wink.gif

This post has been edited by Awakened_Angel: Oct 6 2009, 03:34 PM
Awakened_Angel
post Oct 6 2009, 04:31 PM

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QUOTE(~lynn~ @ Oct 6 2009, 05:14 PM)
The burden of prove needed is still yet to be answered: Is there exists ghost?
This thread made an assumption that ghosts exist, hence they're measurable.

I believe the discussion would be somewhat more fruitful, if we're to firstly discuss the existence of ghost.
Only then proceed to whether or not they're measurable.
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agreed.... but this ghost might be being like us living in other dimensiong... you can watch the documentary by physicist in the thread i posted in massive black hole

ghost are not voodoo things... it might be science break through
Awakened_Angel
post Oct 6 2009, 09:07 PM

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before that, let us define ghost... most of peoples definition of ghost is that there are being who passed away from human and remain in earth realm..

some might call them ghost, spirits, zombie, jin, orang minyak, guardian of things, demon etc etc.. every culture has their own name and looks and characteristics...

however, I used to have a friend who claimed that he has the ability so see ghost... from our conversation, they looked like shadow.. blurred... like human, some are good, some are bad...

the question here... how come some people are able to see them while other are not able to?


Awakened_Angel
post Oct 7 2009, 08:49 AM

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QUOTE(~lynn~ @ Oct 6 2009, 10:35 PM)
Few questions you've posed there my friend, I'd respond to the first one, so that we can have a direction smile.gif

So therefore, ghosts are beings of which does not belong to the living world, which is neither living nor dead, but somewhere in between.
That they are incapable of physical contact/detection/communication/reproduction, but yet they have some form of qualities of which can define their existence.

Is this statement agreeable? Pardon me I'm expressing my opinion. I'm not exerting my beliefs unto any of you smile.gif
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before we say ghost is dead, I think till today, scientist still haven find the correct definition for ALIVE.....

1) Homeostasis: Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, electrolyte concentration or sweating to reduce temperature.

2) Organization: Being structurally composed of one or more cells, which are the basic units of life.

3)Metabolism: Transformation of energy by converting chemicals and energy into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.

4)Growth: Maintenance of a higher rate of anabolism than catabolism. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter.

5)Adaptation: The ability to change over a period of time in response to the environment. This ability is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism's heredity as well as the composition of metabolized substances, and external factors present.

6)Response to stimuli: A response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism to external chemicals, to complex reactions involving all the senses of multicellular organisms. A response is often expressed by motion, for example, the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun (phototropism) and by chemotaxis.

7)Reproduction: The ability to produce new individual organisms, either asexually from a single parent organism, or sexually from two parent organisms


this world mean what? this earth? this dimension? out time frame? universe? soalr systems??

I really hope you`d watch this vid

http://www.tom365.com/movie_2004/html/7152.html

it explain how our universe interact with other dimension and universe thumbup.gif

Added on October 7, 2009, 8:51 am
QUOTE(hazairi @ Oct 7 2009, 07:29 AM)
I do believe that ghost can be scientifically proven.
Bare in mind that in my understanding, ghost isn't the spirit of the dead.
Ghost = Jinns.
Made of fire.
With the correct technology, scientists can detect their presence..
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according to Islam....

i don think FIRE is the correct word.... but light...


This post has been edited by Awakened_Angel: Oct 7 2009, 08:51 AM
Awakened_Angel
post Oct 7 2009, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(slasherbaven @ Oct 7 2009, 01:01 PM)
I'm sorry, but I don't really understand what you mean.
Are you saying the possibility of measuring ghosts, or at the very least, determining their existence without the use of technology but by some other means?

take medicine for example.... the WEST determine sickness base on stetescope, symtoms, CAD scan.. all means by technology...
while china use the pulse to detect sickness... and herbs to cure
while some use stings of bee to cure some sickness....

Ghost = Jinns is just one of the many beliefs of how we define ghosts.
I believe, as Awakened Angel, that this is mainly the belief of Islam.
The Western world believes that ghosts are transparent creatures of the dead.
The Chinese believe that ghosts come in many shapes and sizes, but you have to be gifted (or "unlucky") to be able to see them.

Interesting. What might your definition of ghost be then if not dead?
Your answer would lead to the clarification of you stating the fact of an unknown definition for alive, hopefully.

arent we always looking for the age long question?
who we are, why we are here and what is LIFE... and science and religion is just one of many many explanation....

If I may ask, why light?
that is what my muslim fren told me la...
once, a guy asked allah.. can I see you... allah said no.. I am brighter than light.. before you see me, you will vanish into thin air..

I know a person who -claims- to be able to see ghosts, and I got interested so I began asking a lot.
In the end, found out it was a farce. Ugh.

In all seriousness though, I really do want to see them, if they exist.
If they exist, they're around us, I bet? Wouldn't it be cool to be able to interact with them?


________________

Like I said before, instead of finding ways of measuring as of yet, we have to know how to initiate their presence.

that would start to believe in their existence.... why scientist cant believe in their existance?? but can believe in existance of cosmological object?
i believe the answer does not link with science but with religion... IF they prooven existance of ghost, many many religion will meet dead end... hmm.gif 

Another thing to think about is that ghosts have existed for hundreds of years. I find it really strange that no one bothered to clarify and prove their existence.

Also, why are we living creatures doing all the bother? If they can see us, I'm sure at least one of the thousands would somehow or rather make an appearance. And if an agreement is made somehow, it can go public and the world gains another important knowledge.

Think about it.
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Awakened_Angel
post Oct 7 2009, 04:05 PM

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you read on stephen hawking ang you`ll LUAO as he link ship and other object that fulfill the 7 criteria
Awakened_Angel
post Oct 7 2009, 05:36 PM

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QUOTE(darkskies @ Oct 7 2009, 06:29 PM)
When u tend to term it scientifically measurable you are already tryin to do the impossible.
What type of units your gonna categorize it under in first place? ^.^
My first statement wasnt off topic but juz to remind u that u are hitting on something impossible.
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that`a the problem of modern science now.... what ever does not exist now is IMPOSSIBLE..

did NEWTON knew what unit he is going to use before he discover gravity??

did Watt knew that he will discover power??

did Joule knew he was going to discover work??

many past scientist took the chance and venture into impossible...

NOW is the age of add on... never again on discovery... in media people always boast on discovery.. invention... those are not inventions...

adding on features on HP is not invention... but add on...
Awakened_Angel
post Oct 8 2009, 09:17 AM

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QUOTE(slasherbaven @ Oct 7 2009, 10:57 PM)
Ah alright, I understand your direction now. One disease, two ways of curing.
It's true, technology isn't the answer for everything, but there has to be an explanation, an answer somewhere. Even so, why has there not been an answer to as to the existence of ghosts? You might repeat there hasn't been any methods found, but it has already been hundreds of years. Ghosts can be a wonderful discovery, yet the discovery is never taken seriously. Why.

Yes I understand, but.. alright, if you're questioning if ghosts are not dead creatures, what else could they be?
People living in the same space as us but in alternate dimension?

Are you calling Allah a ghost? tongue.gif
no.. Allah is mega super light.. ghost is puny light...  thumbup.gif

Because the existence of cosmological object is the production of a string of scientifically logic assumptions. At least, I think so.

Ghosts, though, the idea of ghosts is very vague.
What are ghosts? They are the spirits of the dead. Why can some see them and some can't? It's possible the some who sees them lie. What are the attributes of ghosts? They are only available in certain place and/or with certain conditions. How do we go to the places, or achieve the conditions? We do so and so.
Like I said before, I've tried three popular "so and so" methods to see ghosts, but alas, to no avail. sad.gif
still, many scientist believe that ghost or spirit (if they exist) are just form of energy...

An end is always a new beginning. wink.gif

yes... that is the cycle of LIFE... end of winter marks the begining of spring...


=EDIT=
nice.rider, I love your posts.
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Awakened_Angel
post Oct 9 2009, 08:50 PM

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QUOTE(darkskies @ Oct 9 2009, 08:25 PM)

If it can be experiment or measured, it could already be done thousand years ago. Let alone  someone like us tryin to discuss the posibility of it now.

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I once read this... a scientist once take a dying man and put him on a super accurate emasuring device... say 0.0000001g accuracy..

after the dude gave his last breath, his weight drops instantly.. not much... but it do drops...
Awakened_Angel
post Oct 10 2009, 08:38 AM

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Ooh my.. another kopitiam dude... this is a place where people gather, share information, discuss and debabte...

concrete evidence?? where on earth can you find concrete evidence for ghost?? now you tell me from your research wise guy doh.gif

This post has been edited by Awakened_Angel: Oct 10 2009, 08:39 AM
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