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Science Can ghost be scientifically measured?

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SUS4Atulan
post Oct 2 2009, 04:40 PM

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It is clear that skeptics will forever be skeptics until the time it hits them

Like me

Used to be same as you guys, there is no ghost, it's just an imagination of people's whose mental states are unstable

Until that very fateful night laugh.gif

I won't go on that since it has nothing to do with this section, suffice to say, yes, ghosts exist
SUS4Atulan
post Oct 3 2009, 03:28 PM

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QUOTE(aspire2oo6 @ Oct 3 2009, 01:01 PM)
These are call believes. In malaysia certain race are force to follow without obligation.
Honestly i do believe in ghost before i felt it before at least 4 times all my life. Its something unexplainable. For no reason in a quiet place suddenly u feel chill. Then suddenly you have this feeling keep telling yourself Pls get out of the room.

Another one was a room i always entered a TV ROOM. I didnt think anything bad or scary but when i sleep there i have nightmare tat something is in the room. I woke up with chills and sweating. If someone tell you that room is haunted and u still sleep there its call scaring yourself but
I also have a friend that can see these things. When she all of a sudden just keep quiet i immediately understand
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When you yourself have switched off the light, and you are the only one in the building, and then the light is switched on by itself

Then you go switch it off again, thinking to yourself that "Stupid me, I forgot to switch off the light", but as you step out of the place, the light is on again

And this repeated enough times to get the message through your thick skull "I am here and I want the light on"

"No, it has nothing to do with ghost", those skeptics would said

But if it isn't ghost, what is it?
SUS4Atulan
post Oct 3 2009, 06:00 PM

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QUOTE(aspire2oo6 @ Oct 3 2009, 04:50 PM)
Its not 100% ghost but its just something that cant be explain yet in scientific yet or havent have the technology to do so.
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Contradictory statement

If it is something that can't be explained yet, how do you know it is not a ghost?
SUS4Atulan
post Oct 3 2009, 07:12 PM

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QUOTE(aspire2oo6 @ Oct 3 2009, 07:42 PM)
How do you know its a ghost? The word ghost is created by u? Its something unexplainable.

The word god created by who? Also human. Suddenly everyone born then suddenly in their mind have a word call ghost and god?

Its a believes. When our parents are growing up they guide us a method. Then everyone follow it that creates a believes.
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If you are interested in true science, you would know that things has yet to be proven can not be unproven
SUS4Atulan
post Oct 3 2009, 09:32 PM

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QUOTE(marsalee @ Oct 3 2009, 10:03 PM)
It's kinda true, you have to accept that some diseases science (still) does not have the cure.
But the truth is, every disease has its' cure.
Just because it has not been proven scientifically,
does not mean it does not exist.
Just how many percent of our brain are we using, man? Do you think we will and can know it all?

"Nothing exists until or unless it is observed. An artist is making something exist by observing it. And his hope for other people is that they will also make it exist by observing it. I call it 'creative observation.' Creative viewing." -William S. Burroughs

I think the same principle also applies to Scientist.

Now, you can try to explain the taste of kiwi juice to people who never taste kiwi juice, but do you think he will understand? huhu~
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Not all diseases are supposed to be cured

Some diseases are supposed to be embedded in the hosts, like the chlorophyll in plants, chlorophyll was not in the plants in the beginning, it "infected" plants and one way or another it co-exists with the plants, and they become one
SUS4Atulan
post Oct 4 2009, 08:08 AM

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QUOTE(tjinn @ Oct 4 2009, 06:25 AM)
those "nerds" aren't trying to prove something.
experiments are going on to discover new knowledge, cures and remedies, ways to enhance our lifestyle.
imagine a world without scientist and doctors? those "nerds" are the very foundation of mankind.
if every1 chose not to believe in science and the "nerds", this world would still be in the stone age.
if it takes science 500 years to prove , your descendants and the rest of mankind will have the benefit, so its not a total lost.

if science could heal every disease then wouldn't mankind be playing god?
there are many incurable diseases in these world, most of them are congenital..  and some lay dormant and manifest at a later stage of life.
these things are out of our control...

in addition to that, i don't think there is anything called as a "non science" method, even in alternative medicine.
its a stepwise process, first comes observation, next comes hypothesis, experiment, reproducibility, inference.
every person has a choice, if they opt for alternative medicine they are free to do so.. "they don't have to wait for science to proof it could be healed"

finally, to believe in the advancement science and to believe in a different kind of existence (ghosts) differs from people to people.
skeptics tend to look for a scientific explanation.. (though there isn't really 1)
while believers think otherwise.. but it isn't fair to disregard the other fields of science.
science is such a general and broad term. it covers, medicine, mechanics, aviation, ai , etc..etc..
i myself think that paranormal science and studies hold very little significance.. however, i do believe that the other fields of science has benefitted mankind in many ways.
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Excellent reply, with just a very minor flaw: You seems to think that Science and Ghosts are mutually exclusive, and totally discounted the idea that maybe in the future Science really can explain the unexplainable matters such as "Ghost", and may even be able to take accurate measurement, and in the exploration in this matter, may even make more discovery of how matter changes into energy and how "groups of energy" can be manifested in the form of "Ghost" (and even "intelligence" associate with such things)
SUS4Atulan
post Oct 7 2009, 06:49 PM

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QUOTE(nice.rider @ Oct 6 2009, 02:29 PM)
When one believes, he acts according to what he believes.
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When that apple fell on Issac Newton, he believed that something must have caused the apple to fall down, instead of flying up, so he acted according to what he believed and many years later he introduced the law of gravity to the world.

Just because one assumes something does not necessarily make that assumption false.
SUS4Atulan
post Oct 8 2009, 07:00 AM

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QUOTE(~lynn~ @ Oct 8 2009, 12:22 AM)
Sorry, but I've always felt answering a question with another question isn't the best way to justify oneself.
Let us view the fallacy of your viewpoint, and hence compare here:

1. Newton realises there's cause for things to fall. (So far, realisations of ghost only occurs to a minority group of people)
2. He then conducts experiment as to why things fall. (There've been experiments trying to detect ghosts as well)
3. Results of his experimentation concluded there exists a gravitational force. (Still no results from here).

The main difference here is item no.1, the realisation of the subject. Things fall, it's imminent/obvious/real.
Ghosts, on the other hand, is not.
Thus there're still difficulty in trying to gauge something which might/might not exist. Which is why I propose that we'd firstly discuss whether or not ghost exists.
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Whichever way I read your message, an image still comes across vividly, that you are looking from a different viewpoint.

"Realises" is a word.

"Believes" is another word.

One looks at an incident and see it as a realisation.

Another looks at the same incident and believes.

The only difference is perspective, as the incident, and what taken place next, are all the same.
SUS4Atulan
post Oct 9 2009, 06:53 PM

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QUOTE(~lynn~ @ Oct 8 2009, 09:10 PM)
Erm, what I meant in realisation is that the process/experiment can be repeated and certain observations can be made.
Perhaps this also falls under the category of 'Seeing is believing.'

One can observe the effect of gravity pretty clearly; Object falls. Period.
But the effect of ghost is not very much observable.

Hope you get what I meant smile.gif

@nice.rider: Rather interesting ideas, but perhaps I'll discuss it later. Brain's still asleep; just woke up from nap *yawn*
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This is getting rather deep, I will try to take it from the beginning:

When that apple fell on Newton, what happened first?

Did Newton instantly realise that there is something that pulled the apple downwards, or did Newton arrive at the realisation later?

My personal view is that when that apple fell on Newton, he started a whole series of questions, and then he proceeded to search for answers for his questions, and in the process, he came to believe "something" is there, and the more he worked on finding that "something", the more he realised that that "something" might have to do much more than it had done to that apple, and ended up with the gravitation force in between the moon and the earth, between the Sun and earth and between the planets in the solar system.

Realisation does relate to believe, but if one has to choose in between those two, I think the "believe" stage comes first, and only after repeated positive results from the experiments, realisation follows.

Such as the topic of this thread. Can ghost be scientifically measured.

To talk about ghost in all seriousness takes belief. One has to believe that ghosts exist before one can think of "measuring" ghosts scientifically. Perhaps after repeated positive results, such as ghostly image captured on pictures, then one realise that, yes, indeed ghosts exist and might somehow be measurable and/or quantifiable.

This post has been edited by 4Atulan: Oct 9 2009, 07:00 PM

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