Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Property Talk Announcement

New section (Property Q&A) added - catered to all general discussions except project-specific topics ► https://forum.lowyat.net/PropertyQ&A

Bump TopicReply to this topicRSS feed Start new topic Start Poll

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

> Sound Proofing (double glazing windows), Are sliding windows effective? (Renovations)

LightningRevenant
post Sep 25 2009, 12:03 AM, updated 6 years ago


New Member
*
Group: Junior Member
Posts: 25

Joined: Nov 2008
Hi,

I'm about to make some decisions to replace all windows of my house for sound proofing purposes, the problem is the my contractor told me it's always best to replace with double glazing windows that is push out type, however, I do have a serious problem with this, my house grills, all of them are fixed outside, so I can't install the push-out type double glazing windows, the only option is sliding windows.

So would I inquire your experience whether does double glazing sliding windows make a lot of difference on sound proofing?

Any comments are appreciated.

Thanks!
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
dvinez
post Sep 25 2009, 10:31 AM


Limited Edition
******
Group: Senior Member
Posts: 1,359

Joined: Dec 2006
From: Paradise



sliding then tell them u want sliding.
i also faced the same problem, contractor said push out is better.
i'll said it is easy to install and cheaper ! biggrin.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Tohsan
post Sep 25 2009, 10:44 AM


Regular
******
Group: Senior Member
Posts: 1,131

Joined: Jan 2005
From: Bandar Puteri Puchong


QUOTE(LightningRevenant @ Sep 25 2009, 12:03 AM)
Hi,

I'm about to make some decisions to replace all windows of my house for sound proofing purposes, the problem is the my contractor told me it's always best to replace with double glazing windows that is push out type, however, I do have a serious problem with this, my house grills, all of them are fixed outside, so I can't install the push-out type double glazing windows, the only option is sliding windows.

So would I inquire your experience whether does double glazing sliding windows make a lot of difference on sound proofing?

Any comments are appreciated.

Thanks!
*
if u install ur window grill outside instead of inside, thief will find it easy to dismantle them, combined with a sliding window, thats make up for a much easy job to break-in. Sliding window and sliding door does not require much effort to remove it, u just need a screw driver the sliding window can be taken out. Its one of the worst security you could have install for yourself.

This post has been edited by Tohsan: Sep 25 2009, 10:45 AM
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
LightningRevenant
post Sep 25 2009, 02:06 PM


New Member
*
Group: Junior Member
Posts: 25

Joined: Nov 2008
thanks guys, but I am more concerned on the sound proofing, whether a sliding window's sound proofing is as good or nearly close to a push out type window?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
BTSW
post Sep 25 2009, 06:03 PM


New Member
*
Group: Junior Member
Posts: 6

Joined: Sep 2009
QUOTE(LightningRevenant @ Sep 25 2009, 02:06 PM)
thanks guys, but I am more concerned on the sound proofing, whether a sliding window's sound proofing is as good or nearly close to a push out type window?
*
i am facing the same dilemma, not as lucky as you though, i can't choose to do push out as mine is a serviced apartment and i don't think i can touch the existing window.. i've been contemplating on building a sliding double glazed window..

the contractor told me that sliding window sound proofing is not as good as the push out as the gaps are wider between the windows.. and the push out may have better sound proofing by adding rubber/silicone at the frame.. my greatest concern however is when he told me to expect nothing more than 50% noise reduction shocking.gif

there are many articles online that claim glazed window is only effective to reduce noise up to 30% since the primary function of double glazing is to reduce heat, not noise sad.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
LightningRevenant
post Sep 25 2009, 07:16 PM


New Member
*
Group: Junior Member
Posts: 25

Joined: Nov 2008
Well, I would reckon double glazing windows not only reduce heat and act as insulator, but it's as good as reducing noise too. I used to stay in UK for a year, and just outside of my UK apartment, is a big highway, the double glazing windows however, acts superbly to block any incoming noise when u shut it.

Perhaps, you might wanna look out for other contractors, sometimes contractors are afraid that after installation and we still can't accept the noise level we won't pay the money. Thus, they might have come out with some disclaimers upfront.

I've done some research into this subject too, I find that many glass or windows installers at least in my Penang area, are not so knowledgeable in acoustics. To have a good noise insulation for double glazing, the installers must understand that any glass thickness is prone to certain range of noise frequency and it will bypass that noise, so the installers nees to install two different thickness of glass (one outer the other inner), so that when certain frequency of sound waves attenuates the first layer of glass and penetrates, the sound wave will be blocked by inner glass of different thickness due to different character of attenuation proneness.

Unfortunately, they do not have a degree in acoustic engineering.

Anyway, I can understand that the gaps of sliding windows are bigger than the push out windows, that's due to the rollers beneath (aka the sliders), recently I met one windows installer, he told me that he can get hold of some furniture frame structures and modify it to hold glass, and when the windows shuts up completely, there is basically no gap at all, the downside to this is that, you need to have one either left or right window to be permanently fixed and not slide-able at all. I'm yet to see any truth to this, but this modification requires big investment, initial quote was already more than RM 750 for a standard window.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
BTSW
post Sep 25 2009, 11:01 PM


New Member
*
Group: Junior Member
Posts: 6

Joined: Sep 2009
yeah.. the noise insulation double glazing.. i think they call it assymetric double glazing.. mentioned this to a couple of contractor and they don't seems to have it..

so.. the 750/window quote you have there.. are they using assymetric double glaze? what is the size for the standard window? most contractors are quoting me by /sq ft .. perhaps we should share contractors contacts smile.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
LightningRevenant
post Sep 26 2009, 04:51 AM


New Member
*
Group: Junior Member
Posts: 25

Joined: Nov 2008
BTSW,

Looks like I found a partner to this lonely deserted topic...

By lacking any sound knowledge of acoustics, I don't think our "Malaysian contractors" are gonna comprehend the word, "asymmetric". So it's actually pretty simple, of course it's not the right way of answering a text book thesis or dissertation paper answers in acoustic terms. You might just have to tell the contractors in pretty layman term that instead of using the same thickness glass on the outer and the inner, they'd just have to use a different one. E.g. 5-12-5, means 5 mm then separated by 12 mm air space (or vacuumed or argon-ed) then another layer of 5 mm, so instead of the conventional "symmetric" values used on the twin 5 mm, just order one at the outer as 5mm and the inner at 4 mm, that to me, completely changes the attenuation property.

There are still some fancy ideas on doing this, you could have gotten a laminated glass specially made to improve sound proofing and make use for all of them on the two different thickness double glazing. But not sure bout the costs though.

The windows installer I met that day told me he would do a vacuum central on the large air space, not sure how good he can do that though, coz I wouldn't wanna see condensation built-up in there as some mind-twisting tormented artistic displays or some mini aquariums showing up after several years of use. Nevertheless, whether vacuum or argon, they're almost as good for noise insulation, the differences in actual value using either vac or arg lie on the thermal insulation qualities, this I assume.

Conclusively, the installer told me the RM 750 is the price for standard, I assume standard means 4ft x 5ft? But of course my windows are bigger than this measurement, so he'd yet to come back to me for a real quote, and... it's been three days already... Oh and yes, asymmetric or not depends on your call on glass thickness so long as the thickness does not run out of the provided profile. And how much is yours / sqft? Not sure my contractor can go down to KL I presume just to check out or to install your unit though.

QUOTE(BTSW @ Sep 25 2009, 11:01 PM)
yeah.. the noise insulation double glazing.. i think they call it assymetric double glazing.. mentioned this to a couple of contractor and they don't seems to have it..

so.. the 750/window quote you have there.. are they using assymetric double glaze? what is the size for the standard window? most contractors are quoting me by /sq ft .. perhaps we should share contractors contacts  smile.gif
*
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
DOMinKL
post Apr 21 2011, 12:37 PM


New Member
*
Group: New Member
Posts: 1

Joined: Apr 2011
QUOTE(LightningRevenant @ Sep 26 2009, 04:51 AM)
BTSW,

Looks like I found a partner to this lonely deserted topic...

By lacking any sound knowledge of acoustics, I don't think our "Malaysian contractors" are gonna comprehend the word, "asymmetric". So it's actually pretty simple, of course it's not the right way of answering a text book thesis or dissertation paper answers in acoustic terms. You might just have to tell the contractors in pretty layman term that instead of using the same thickness glass on the outer and the inner, they'd just have to use a different one. E.g. 5-12-5, means 5 mm then separated by 12 mm air space (or vacuumed or argon-ed) then another layer of 5 mm, so instead of the conventional "symmetric" values used on the twin 5 mm, just order one at the outer as 5mm and the inner at 4 mm, that to me, completely changes the attenuation property.

There are still some fancy ideas on doing this, you could have gotten a laminated glass specially made to improve sound proofing and make use for all of them on the two different thickness double glazing. But not sure bout the costs though.

The windows installer I met that day told me he would do a vacuum central on the large air space, not sure how good he can do that though, coz I wouldn't wanna see condensation built-up in there as some mind-twisting tormented artistic displays or some mini aquariums showing up after several years of use. Nevertheless, whether vacuum or argon, they're almost as good for noise insulation, the differences in actual value using either vac or arg lie on the thermal insulation qualities, this I assume.

Conclusively, the installer told me the RM 750 is the price for standard, I assume standard means 4ft x 5ft? But of course my windows are bigger than this measurement, so he'd yet to come back to me for a real quote, and... it's been three days already... Oh and yes, asymmetric or not depends on your call on glass thickness so long as the thickness does not run out of the provided profile. And how much is yours / sqft? Not sure my contractor can go down to KL I presume just to check out or to install your unit though.
*
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
PJusa
post Apr 21 2011, 06:33 PM


Regular
******
Group: Senior Member
Posts: 1,474

Joined: Jan 2003
From: PJ
hi,

sliding will not be as good. get push type. you can get european push type and just opt for opening inside (just make sure they dont just turn the window around otherwise the weatherseal is inside and the dust/noise seal is outside). double glaze is good, double glaze with gas filled is better. buy a very good noise canceling frame too. UPVC is actually your friend but you will be hardpressed to find a good installer for them. might have to settle for alluminum. try upwards solution for AUBI or veka.com.my for good quality VEKA system (from Germany). but beware: prices will be steep.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
r32speedrb25
post Apr 28 2011, 11:05 AM


New Member
*
Group: Junior Member
Posts: 31

Joined: May 2008
i thikn for ur info,,, push out or sliding window,,, i reckon they are both same. of coz, da thicker da material da better insulation and sound proof...

as for double glazing,,, u have to find matching extrusion to fit the glass size, as it varies accordingly to your need.

i did double glazing for wine room, gud stuff as it doesnt condensed the glass ...

normall for soundproofing material, they dont just use silicone, n gaskets, there are also a material used called "woolpile" which compress da inner frame of the window against the outer. this gud quality wool pile actually waterproof and sound proof material too.

cost of doing this varies, it goes to above 55psf to 80psf...

there are many combinations you should look into.

as for apartment changing their windows, i dont think your allow to change the exterior windows, as management wont allow it.

hope it helps smile.gif cheers


User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
limch
post Apr 30 2011, 08:39 PM


Getting Started
**
Group: Junior Member
Posts: 133

Joined: Jul 2006
Double glazing was used in KLIA project. Do you hear the noise of aircraft?

DG is great for noise insulation. The rule of physics always applied, less movement, less wear. Make sure the DG window is tightly sealed cos noise travel by air. Condensation will come in too.

I'm not sure about the gas filled DG. What gas do they use?

Hope it helps.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
wynners22
post Apr 30 2011, 09:26 PM


New Member
*
Group: Junior Member
Posts: 20

Joined: Jun 2009


QUOTE(limch @ Apr 30 2011, 09:39 PM)
Double glazing was used in KLIA project. Do you hear the noise of aircraft?

DG is great for noise insulation. The rule of physics always applied, less movement, less wear. Make sure the DG window is tightly sealed cos noise travel by air. Condensation will come in too.

I'm not sure about the gas filled DG. What gas do they use?

Hope it helps.
*
Argon Gas...the gas ppl used in flying ballon... biggrin.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Smurving
post May 4 2011, 10:25 AM


New Member
*
Group: New Member
Posts: 1

Joined: May 2011
Can someone pass me the contact details of a good contractor that can sound proof my bedroom windows.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
kk131
post Jun 4 2011, 08:48 PM


Getting Started
**
Group: Junior Member
Posts: 113

Joined: Jun 2005
From: Somewhere over the rainbow


Besides double glazing, the problem with Malaysian manufactured frames is that they do not seal properly, so the sound passes through the gaps between the frame and the casement/door leaf. Better to look for windows from Western European manufacturers where they have to meet performance standards for their products.

Frankly speaking most windows in Malaysian houses are only fit for cattle sheds.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
DannyMc
post Nov 14 2011, 02:12 PM


Getting Started
**
Group: Junior Member
Posts: 156

Joined: Jun 2007



I faced similar issue, recently moved to a unit facing main road. I can even count the number of motor, bus , car pass by even with my curtain and windows closed.

Do you think that the acoustic foam for can help in this case? i will try to stick it to the windows. anyone has any comment?

attached my windows(traditional)




Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
zeese
post Nov 14 2011, 02:43 PM


Warning Level
******
Group: Senior Member
Posts: 1,249

Joined: Jan 2005
From: Kuala Lumpur
sliding window/door has bigger gaps because it it either hanged or stands on a roller. If it hangs, there has to be a gap at the bottom to allow it to move freely. If it stands on a roller, there as to be a gap at the top for the same reason (to allow it to move freely).

For push out type, when the window is closed, there won't be any visible gap between the window and the frame.

So, it is easily understood why push out type is better in terms of noise insulation..
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
wdarke
post Nov 14 2011, 02:51 PM


Casual
***
Group: Junior Member
Posts: 319

Joined: Jan 2003
QUOTE(DannyMc @ Nov 14 2011, 02:12 PM)
I faced similar issue, recently moved to a unit facing main road. I can even count the number of motor, bus , car pass by even with my curtain and windows closed.

Do you think that the acoustic foam for can help in this case? i will try to stick it to the windows. anyone has any comment?

attached my windows(traditional)
*
You have traditional louvre windows. I doubt acoustic foam would help. It's very difficult to seal it completely. Isn't it very dusty also? I too am staying next to a road, even with push-out windows I find it incredibly dusty.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
DannyMc
post Nov 15 2011, 12:44 PM


Getting Started
**
Group: Junior Member
Posts: 156

Joined: Jun 2007



I doubt that too, i wanted to reduce the noise & aware that it is impossible to completely seal it.

Was thinking of having the foam at the windows when i wanted to listen to my music or watch my movie.

Found 1 Penang music shop is selling the acoustic foam cost me RM55, 2inches thick though. still considering....
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Caesar7
post Jan 18 2012, 07:45 AM


New Member
*
Group: New Member
Posts: 3

Joined: Nov 2011
Back in Europe we had mostly double glazed windows, triple ones were not that popular, but very power efficient.

As for the noise cancelling properties - not only the glass thickness makes difference, but the quality of materials used for window frame itself.

Usually it wasn't an issue to sound proof, but looks like here, in Malaysia, not only the windows are single glazed, but the walls are muuuuuch thinner, which of course makes some sense climate-wise.

Hope that helps.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Becabal
post Jan 18 2012, 10:14 AM


Getting Started
**
Group: Junior Member
Posts: 192

Joined: Jun 2011
From: MY oh MY
QUOTE(Caesar7 @ Jan 18 2012, 07:45 AM)
Back in Europe we had mostly double glazed windows, triple ones were not that popular, but very power efficient.

As for the noise cancelling properties - not only the glass thickness makes difference, but the quality of materials used for window frame itself.

Usually it wasn't an issue to sound proof, but looks like here, in Malaysia, not only the windows are single glazed, but the walls are muuuuuch thinner, which of course makes some sense climate-wise.

Hope that helps.
*
Yup totally agree...Even if you change the entire window to DG glass,superb quality type of sliding or push out window its will help reduce noise abit might be around 20 to 30% the most?but those noise still coming thru ceiling,from kitchen,from door and etc etc.Do consider all the aspect before make decision as DG glass type window aint cheap here.Will cost a bomb.

Just my 2 cent no offense
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
andycapp
post Mar 3 2012, 10:18 AM


New Member
*
Group: New Member
Posts: 1

Joined: Mar 2012
Double glazed units don't help sound reduction because the gap between the sheets of glass is 3/4" to maximise thermal performance.

For max acoustic performance the gap needs to be more than 2.3/4" and the larger the better.

Also laminated glass will help but it costs. Try 4 + PVB (0.76mm) + 4mm glass.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
pdk
post Mar 26 2012, 02:26 PM


New Member
*
Group: New Member
Posts: 1

Joined: Mar 2012
I am sitting on double storey terrace house and facing surau, just 40 meter away from my door step. I have been struggle for year, every early morning awaken by the prayer sound from speaker.
I have been looking for a sound proof solution a year, but can't find any contrator/services/solution locally here in Penang.
I would be very much appreciate if anyone can share with me the contrator or service provider name here in Penang. smile.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
PJusa
post Mar 26 2012, 04:30 PM


Regular
******
Group: Senior Member
Posts: 1,474

Joined: Jan 2003
From: PJ
get in touch with aubi malaysia or VEKA malaysia. they can hook you up withsome to install great soundproofing windows. dont forget to soundproof the ceilingf too.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
lolly8968
post Jul 26 2012, 06:15 PM


New Member
*
Group: Junior Member
Posts: 12

Joined: Jul 2012
QUOTE(LightningRevenant @ Sep 25 2009, 12:03 AM)
Hi,

I'm about to make some decisions to replace all windows of my house for sound proofing purposes, the problem is the my contractor told me it's always best to replace with double glazing windows that is push out type, however, I do have a serious problem with this, my house grills, all of them are fixed outside, so I can't install the push-out type double glazing windows, the only option is sliding windows.

So would I inquire your experience whether does double glazing sliding windows make a lot of difference on sound proofing?

Any comments are appreciated.

Thanks!
*
Old thread, but in case someone is looking for the answer:

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...&#entry53342763

The comments above in this post are correct, the glass thickness must be asymmetrical to prevent sound waves from amplifying each other.

Sliding windows in theory can be done (my balcony sliding door is soundproof) but my guess is that you get a much tighter seal with push-out windows. It seems to be such in my unit.

Don't go cheapo on quality of frame and seal, both are as crucial as the glass. Ask the contractor exactly what he's going to use and how[U] he plans to make the frame soundproof.

Acoustic foam strips - seriously, will make a minimal difference by themselves. cool.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Bump TopicReply to this topicTopic OptionsStart new topic
 

Switch to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0738sec    2.03    6 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 5th July 2015 - 08:11 AM