Hi guy,

Just want to share some info that i have found regarding the new samsung led tv B8500 series which was recently showcase and u can refer to below detail that i have taken from the net.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thre...podcast-samsung - Video showing the new samsung b8500 series led tv

After walking around the Cedia show for a couple days and going back and forth between all the TV manufacturers to see who's hot and who's not this year the Samsung 8500 series was by far the best TV! I am not sure which Blu-ray disk was playing or even what player they were using mainly because I was too blown away by the picture quality to look. The black bars that show in a typical 16:9 movie were more black than the TV's bezel which was the 1st thing I noticed. The color and depth of the picture was amazing. I remember thinking that I needed to get one myself and I rarely do that. None of the other manufacturers gave me that "gotta have it NOW" feeling this year like the Pioneer KURO sets did when they 1st came out. This is the kind of TV that makes you pop in Blu-ray movies you hate just to see how awesome it looks. When I 1st saw the 8500 I noticed that it was still very thin even though it was fully LED back-lit as opposed to the edge lit LED on the 8000 series. The styling was subtle and expensive looking and I am glad they did not incorporate the red touch of color bezel (as some people hate it)

I can not stress how much better this TV is from the other LED models that Samsung offers with edge LED or a traditional cold cathode LCD panel such as the B650 series (although I'm excited about the 65" B650 because of it's size). The local dimming allows for amazing....amazing black reproduction. Toshiba for example had a section in their booth that was very dark with two TV's inside. The TV on the left was their full LED back-lit SV series and on the right they had their ZV series non LED lit set (equivalent to the B650 Sammy for the most part). the color reproduction on both were great and about equal, but the non LED set had so much light leaking out of the supposed "black" scene areas that I couldn't believe the difference.

I went over to the Sony booth next to look at the XBR10 and honestly I was a bit disappointed with the picture quality compared to the 8500 Samsung. It didn't give me a feeling of "wow" at all and the fact that it's edge lit well... don't get me started. I also heard a rumor that Sony purchased their LED's from Samsung this year...If I was Sony I would be a bit scared since Samsung is out selling them by a ton this year.

With all the TV tech floating around from the various manufacturers I was confident that the 8500 was the one...although I do have to say that I was impressed with the LG SL90 set. If I am not mistaken the contrast ratio on the Samsung 8500 series is 7 million to 1 and the LG SL90 is only 3 million to 1 so the Sammy comes out way on top in that respect...granted a lot of other factors play in to the TV beyond contrast as we all know, but I do think that the 8500 may officially be the best TV of 09!

I do have to give some credit where credit is due though to Toshiba who has a nice LED set with local dimming (the SV670) and it is at a great price point.

Lastly...In another forum we were trying to figure out the actual contrast ratio that the human eye can truly see at any given time and compare it to the new TV's. (Maybe some of the calibrators could chime in on this) I was in a Runco training last year and the person doing the training said that the human eye will optimize to a 400 to 1 contrast at any given time even though its overall spectrum is in the millions. I have another person in the Toshiba forum that heard 20,000 to 1 was the max at any given time. With this being said Contrast #'s from the manufacturers seem ridiculous without some frame of reference

Anyone know?

This post has been edited by squall_12: Sep 16 2009, 11:20 AM

Actually, I went around to find out how my old HD ready panny performed against the current ones...result, new ones perform not by much even though its FullHD.

But those Samsung LED ones are just marvelous! But of course expensive.

I believe Samsungs R&D division in display technologies is very well backed. Their breakthru last year for the LED backligthing with local dimming was pretty impressive. This year their edge lit LED backligthing was pretty darned good as well. Black levels are pretty good. I am really looking forward to see this years implementation of the LED backlit local dimming capability sets. I have seen some reports that say the black levels are phenomenal and would possibly match if not trump Kuro black levels. The only issues that remain are viewing angles and blooming due to the fact that there are less LEDs for backlight than pixels.

I believe that LED backlighting technology and improved local dimming algorithms is the future of LCD TVs. The sad thing is if Panasonic does not buck up, plasma technology might find it difficult to catch up.

I wonder if they still using the cheaper white LED solution or the RGB ones on this new TV?

if i am not wrong samsung always had use white LED solution as is cheaper and performance wise compare to RGB ones different not light day and night...

Actually, if u know what to look there is a difference. Colour accuracy and more stable greyscale reproduction is the benefits of RGB vs white LED. It is also supposed to improve the blooming but I don't have proof of this but I do know that the Sony Series which uses the RGB solution has less effect that the Sammy.

This is the one reason why Sony's LED backlighting last year was a touch better than the Sammy A950 series.

Edit: Since I have seen the 2 implementations before I don't really think it is a fair comparison since the dimming algorithms are different, so this is speculation that the difference is due to RGB vs White LEDs.

This post has been edited by anfieldude: Sep 17 2009, 11:21 AM

cheaper yes...

performance, RGB is better..

also white LEDs are not as stable over time.. they age faster and the color changes..

of coz, if got local dimming that might prolong the LEDS since not every white LED is seeing 100% duty factor when TV turned on..

samsung is good and will continue so because it has the support of the korean government , the korean banks and the korean people as well.

its R&D budget is so high , it put other brand and make to shame

it has since 3 years ago overtook the jap on sales , design and innovative-ness and i'm betting , very soon, it may overtake the reliability and brand image against the big one , SONY .

just look at LGs new models and you know , like the jap , the koreans are a very dynamic breed

their LCD monitor is everywhere and sammy will take the lead in producing bigger screen size OLED tv soon.you can count on it

This post has been edited by sunnyK: Sep 17 2009, 05:19 PM

Deleted to avoid IP concerns...

This post has been edited by de_lasoul: Sep 18 2009, 10:17 AM

halo.. I sell LEDs la..

the fact you mention in bold means you don't know how they make white LED.. LOL..

Deleted to avoid IP concerns..

This post has been edited by de_lasoul: Sep 18 2009, 10:34 AM

Thanks guys for making and selling all these items.

You are the fellas who make our pockets koyak but still IMHO it is worth every cent of it. This life dont want to enjoy it then dont know when only can get to enjoy it.

I am loving mine now but do not have much time to enjoy.

Wish I could just have more free time.

This post has been edited by braveheart: Sep 17 2009, 06:15 PM

well the white LEDs are based on Blue Dice usually made of InGaN with yellow phosphor coating above it.. over time, due to aging/degradation of the phospor, the white light emitted would shift is hue due to this..

what has that got to do with the lens???

deleted to avoid IP concerns....

This post has been edited by de_lasoul: Sep 18 2009, 10:16 AM

both u guys just show go pee next to each other & see who's is bigger ma settled d lor...

Both engineering sifus showing koli, whoever wins, i also lespect ...

well maybe you are more privileged to some manufacturing trade secrets so thanks for the input on these, but that don't change the fact that RGB is still the better way to produce white color albeit at higher costs.. which was what the initial comments was about..
not to mention, blue+yellow = white doesn't fill up the whole Color gamut very well.. RGBs are better.

as for the comment in bold, the initial bin sorting will not be able to solve aging/time dependent factors on yellow phosphor aging characteristic due to usage over time.. the fact that phosphor ages unevenly across the LCD panel at different LED locations due to different operating times, means there is no way of controlling the aging evenly.....

also as for ultra bright LEDs in both these categories, the other half of the equation is the electronic drive circuits.. that's very important in preserving/prolonging the life and performance of the LEds.. so each TV manufacturer probably have their solutions for these..

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Added on September 17, 2009, 6:56 pmnothing to argue or win la..

having technical discusson ma..

me more on the final end product application of LED side, taiko de_lasoul is manufacturing of LEDS side.. just different viewpoints to share..

This post has been edited by ar188: Sep 17 2009, 06:56 PM

Yeah, yeah, sharing is caring, we all also can main forum sambil belajar, memang value added

alternatively, can see how far is the pee's travel distanse or how high is the pee's altitude

eh? thought u on the island side?? balik d ka? so not dropping by anymore i guess ...

In Island la... my HP can online one ma....

dun end up touching each other like Milk..

R we still comparing about the LCD or something else..?

you tell me.. suddenly ot topic to seeing who can pancut further..

Deleted to avoid IP concern..........

This post has been edited by de_lasoul: Sep 18 2009, 10:15 AM

i heard now sony new ledtv no longer used RGB LED so to me samsung new LEDTV which is B8500 should surpass sony and ppl that visit Cedia Show 2009 has confirm that the new samsung LEDTV B8500 crush all his competitor...

squall12,

The reason why the sammy crushed the competition was due to the fact that it had local dimming while the Sony was only edge lit LED. While I believe that Samsung will crush competition it is wise to note that Sony has in the past always delivered well made LCD products. I believe they are not ready to display their highest end model that will use local dimming and improved algorithms. The belief is that Sony will not release local dimming this year and will announce a better model next year. I have seen the implementation of the older RGB LED and in my opinion it was superior to Samsung A950 model, but then it again it is double the price as well. If you are looking at performance per price ratio, I believe Sammy will deliver, but just looking at performance, I believe that Toshiba, Sharp (yes I said Sharp) and Sony will be definately close the gap next year.

am selling several brands depend on customer request for their project, mostly taiwanese/HK/china..
but as you mention, due to patent issues, some of them are using dies from cree/toyoda gosei etc.. internal details are defined by the manufacturer, so we just follow their P/N as per customer's request in the BOM list of the project.

anyway as for as high brightness LEDs are concern, one thing I learn is that the drive circuits with superior voltage regulation are equally as important as the LEDs them self.. due to the fragile state of these InGaN devices it's important to keep the junction temperature down and also avoid over driving them/over current, longevity depends on the drive circuits other than internal LED chip construction..



This post has been edited by ar188: Sep 18 2009, 10:27 AM

bro.. it's spelled as dies, not dice..

dice used for casino wans... cabutzzzz

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Added on September 18, 2009, 10:17 ambro anfieldude... i'm not defending Sammy 950 coz i'm using it

it's RM12k for 55" vs Sony's RM26k for 50" .... apples & oranges, but the fact that you even compared it to the RM26k tv already says much about the Sammy tv.. damn freaking good for it's price. Thanks Is the difference or advantage of Sony worth the additional RM14k n not to mention it's 5" smaller?? I guess it's up to the buyer to decide

This post has been edited by ronnt88: Sep 18 2009, 10:38 AM

ops.. die!

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Added on September 18, 2009, 10:25 amif it's 26k price here, as per your recommendation, you can always buy from USA..


This post has been edited by ar188: Sep 18 2009, 10:25 AM

Sony was the first LCD to use LED lighting... however, it was a failure because of their price strategy.. nobody would pay that price at that time..

Now Samsung has made it affordable (even though it is still expensive to us MYS) compared to Sony.

Samsung & LG made an agreement to promote their LED edge/backlighting TVs in a manner that Sammy will aggresively advertise it for the 1st 6mths, after that followed by LG for the following 2nd half. This will keep the momentum and frenzy of edge/backlit LED going...

Samsung continues to be very confidence in their LED edge/backlit display (including monitors & notebook displays) sales, that they have forecasted another approx 40% increment in their LED production output in 2010.

Meaning if buy PS50B650 today, tomorrow it will be obsolete because of these LED TVs...

ron,

As I mentioned earlier, if you are looking at price/performance ratio comparison, Samsung LCDs whack the competition out of the orbit! No question abt that at all. What I was referring to was the performance aspect. I have calibrated ur A950 and I stick to what I have said before, it is miles above any LCD in its price range, period. The one thing to note would be the blooming. The Sony LED backlight w/local dimming that cost 2X has a better implementation of the local dimming algorithm and I suspect more LEDs in the backlight as well as RGB LEDs. That is what is improving the performance and hence the price difference. To 99% of the people, the price is the primary concern. The 1% though almost always will go for the better implementation of the technology, that always involves more costs.

Samsung/LG has another edge compared to the the Japanese LCD makers, they have given a host of calibration controls to the user. Thats why we are seeing the Sonys, Sharps and Toshibas now providing 3D CMS, greyscale and gamma adjustments in the user menu, those of which was hidden in the service menu before.

I believe the korean LCD/plasma manufacturers are really waht is driving this display technology forward.

I have also recently seen the Samsung projector and it is pretty awesome as well!

To me, I really don't care who makes the product as long as it has superior performance and good reliability, I will back it.

haha... i don't think so... but likely in the end.. LCD will replace plasma completely..at least that is what everyone thinks.. or like to think so..

don't worry, I am still with B650 as it is cheaper and bigger...

anyways, if i were to spend RM26k, i'd go for 600M, better size

urs landed yet?

This post has been edited by ronnt88: Sep 18 2009, 10:46 AM

Yea, drive cicuits or some might like to call it controllers are equally important.. many ppl think when it comes to LED, they market the lifespan at approx 50K hrs and some up to 100K hrs.. so even the LED last that long, their drivers may not last that long.. so the whole package is very important.

Even if LEDs and the driver can last up to 50K hrs, your LCD might not too.. heheh

This post has been edited by de_lasoul: Sep 18 2009, 10:48 AM

landed also no use, the place to set it in is not ready...but yes it already landed and at the shop.

is it hooked up in the shop? can go demo d...

still at the shop? u can keep it at my place first, and i can help u with the run-in....

by the time u collect, wah lah... ready for calibration...

'wah lah' is the latest malaysian french fusion?

This post has been edited by ronnt88: Sep 18 2009, 10:55 AM

What is the elite 600m that U guys are talking about?

Agreed that sony RGB LED TV is better than samsung but price point is a no no for me...so i glad we buyer have more selection like samsung to give user enjoy new technology with cheap price...

On another perspective, people are now comparing Samsungs with Sonys. Less than a decade ago, Samsung was a pauper's Sony. Which shows how much improvement Samsung made over the relatively short years. I know their LCD monitors are regularly ranked No. 1, but to make it into the AV industry AND joustling for the top position, thats quite an achievement for a Korean brand.

As Samsung wants to be the new Sony, so does LG the new Samsung.

oh it's just a lau yah pioneer panel



This post has been edited by ronnt88: Sep 18 2009, 11:10 AM

Not hooked up. In the box.

Actually, in TBM Bangsar Village, the 600M, 500A are all on display.

But this is OT.

i don't really care how the LED TV will further evolve or improve in performance or other enhancement from now till next year , the fact is , it will still remain expensive

good quality/performance of plasma models from panny and sammy and even from LG are becoming very affordable for BIG screen sizes.( 50" to 63" )

infact there had been reports stating that sales for plasma this year have improve from previous years.

i am all for plasma and long may it live and prosper

How is this OT when Kuro is involved ? Anyways, how much is the listed sell price at TBM?

Fuiyoh!!! Lau yah 60" KURO!!!

If I am not mistaken it is almost 55kgs, not sure if u want to put it up and remove it again.

these r entry level or midrange plasmas u r referring to

RM29.9k with a free Pio 320 player.

I believe they were willing to bring it down to RM28.5k...

damn elite

HN quoted me at RM28k

can buy 2 submersive there

This post has been edited by mpyw: Sep 18 2009, 11:18 AM

ooookkk.... back to work & reality...

c u guys.. & Selamat Hari Raya, maaf zahir & batin

This post has been edited by ronnt88: Sep 18 2009, 11:20 AM

mid range to high end lah. LG PS80 60" retail at RM 14,999 bundle with expensive free gifts b4 discount . samsung 50 B650 also very affordable.

why care about LED or whatever panels

This post has been edited by sunnyK: Sep 18 2009, 11:26 AM

Some short story of Samsung. Those days, when they were still climbing, they tried to enter DELL. DELL did not bother to consider them. Many sales rep of Samsung continued to try but failed.

Then the CEO (yes, CEO) of Samsung that time manage to obtain Michael Dell's itineraries of a visit to certain country. Hence the CEO flew to the country and waited at the lobby personally (yes, the CEO waited personally) for many hours. Once he found Michael Dell at the lobby, he immediately stood up to see and pass him a display LCD with no obligation. He only ask Michael Dell to do him a favour by trying it. Michael Dell was moved by Samsung CEO's personal visit and then he agreed to try. Now Dell uses all Samsung monitors and laptop displays... at least most of them.

This is how aggresive Samsung is, at the point where even a CEO can degrade himself to wait at a lobby for long hours to obtain new business. Respect to them.... Not many big bosses of companies would succumb themselves in humiliation to sit at hotel lobbies and wait for long hours.

No doubt that they have come a long way. Next on their agenda shd be reliability improvements and overall brand confidence boosting to the general public.

la_soul,

Have you gone to KL already or still here?

Have some good news for you but cannot tell openly.Only in your PM.

strange hor... last time (2-3years ago) many people know plasma looks better but the ones in the market has low resolution and those fullHD version costs 30-40% more than LCD equivalent..

now tables are turned, plasma FHD is cheaper than LED backlight LCD TVs (non local dimming ones summore) and some people still want the more expensive model..

so I think just human nature.. we want the more expensive version (which ever that may be) but hope somehow to get it cheaper than the market price..

hope it is already improved rather than improving.. hehe..

hope my TV will last me at least min 8~10 years.. hehe

what's french fusion meaning?

take kawan's things and use first?

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Added on September 18, 2009, 11:48 amI think it'll be obsolete by their own new plasma range in 9-12months time..

(I mean look at the A950 flagship)

This post has been edited by ar188: Sep 18 2009, 11:48 AM

wah so secret, i so jealous ....

why you want to join 3some?

But the A950 can still pretty much stand up against the competition even now, no?

Its still pretty darned good. Most if not all of the electronics seem to be obsoleted in a year nowadays, we cannot chase the technology jet.

Buy now, enjoy it while u can, but don't believe that it will last forever. If u r one who suffers buyers remorse each time a new model comes up, then don't buy high end electronics and always go for the low end ones.

u want to make it foursome?

yes, it's still pretty good (have to put agreeing words, cos ronn watching )

what I meant , cos at the moment, it's not flagship anymore mah..

as for your 2nd statement, it's not about just buying high end electronics , it's about optimizing.. things like SVS or submersive, worth to shell out.. they don't go outdated in 1years time.. the specs alone can remain high end for several years (look at elemental designs's sub which is out for 2+ years already still top end)... or even power amps like XPA-5 etc.. some rotel power amps after 5years still good value to be used in current multichannel AV system setups..
so see what kind of electronics lor.. if BDP, I would stick to low-mid end.. why pay 3k or LX what ever pioneer.. (for me la, just my 2sen..)

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Added on September 18, 2009, 12:00 pmdon't you like to do it alone?

This post has been edited by ar188: Sep 18 2009, 12:00 PM

I am still in Penang...

You got mail

By the way, does anyone know who would like to buy used plasma for spare parts? or to repair?

Mine is currently intermittenly booting up (have to switch on/off current couple of times before manage to boot up). I doubt anyone might wan to repair it, may cost up to RM1.5K

what model plasma?

the koreans are very very dynamic people .

i remember a local technician from samsung telling me , at samsung they use SONY as their benchmark and only see SONY as their competitor .

japanese brand , don't say you are not pre-warned

i love japanese products all my life , but for flat panel TV , solli it has to be sammy

This post has been edited by sunnyK: Sep 18 2009, 12:40 PM

Yep, they are very action orientated.

My recent xperience with them was they really went down to the root level and made sure everything was settled properly and called up to reconfirm if everything was OK since I brought up the problem with them. They were humble enough to accept complaints and acted accordingly. Now I am a happy customer.

Definately gotta give props to them. They caught up very fast in a variety of consumer oriented product manufacturing. Not only in flat tvs, but also in handphones, home appliances, and as of late, even in digital cameras. They been splurging alot of money into extending their product variety with the goal of making the Samsung brand a house hold name (before this, their specialty industry is the heavy industry. they are THE company to go to if u want your ship to be built, or if talking logistics).

But reliability wise, they are still quite far ahead from their Japanese counterpart. Though they might close the gap in the future, but as of late, they still put cosmetic design ahead of reliability. And if you realise, most Korean flat TV companies, their cosmetic design philosophy is more towards flashy and eye catching, while the japanese design philosophy is more towards simple and clean. You can say that the Korean design is 'youthful', while the Japanese design is 'professional'.

Philips... old plasma... forgot the model dee... low resolution wan ler..

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Added on September 18, 2009, 2:26 pmu know that Samsung even built a car (looks like BMW), but the government did not want them to proceed in the automobile industry. They are being told to concentrate on electronics at the moment....

This post has been edited by de_lasoul: Sep 18 2009, 02:26 PM

Their gomen pandai, no in-fighting among themselves, with the Hyundai/Kia giants around, better they stick to what they do best and whack the world.

wow this the next sonata..

Steering wheel like inspired by Star Trek!

got stop start button also..

I;m getting the white accord soon.. but this is way better.. die..

Look at it this way la - Hyundai - No. Second. Hand. Value.

Alamak, ni dah jagi Fast and Furious Thread ....

koreans + design + technology mah.. still on topic..

but you rite la.. this part I dem scared.. want to sell also 1/2 price in 2-3years..

y get accord? Volkswagen Passat CC just launched.. damn good car, keyless, highend electronics, frameless windows, 200hp some more

if same price range, I dun mind.. alas it's not..

well elite ronn with 5 figure subwoofer should consider the CC then... more suit your profile!

where got 5 figure sub? only canton 9.5" only la.. can come take a look if u dun believe

i wan CC ... but not enuff $$...

I tot yr avatar is a pic of yr car? ...

kekeke... pic of my daydream car only

wonder whats yr night and wet dreams then ...

jpop/kpop/JAV idol maybe?