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 Kuro is defeated by samsung new LEDTV?

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ar188
post Sep 17 2009, 09:34 AM

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QUOTE(anfieldude @ Sep 17 2009, 09:31 AM)
I believe Samsungs R&D division in display technologies is very well backed. Their breakthru last year for the LED backligthing with local dimming was pretty impressive. This year their edge lit LED backligthing was pretty darned good as well. Black levels are pretty good. I am really looking forward to see this years implementation of the LED backlit local dimming capability sets. I have seen some reports that say the black levels are phenomenal and would possibly match if not trump Kuro black levels. The only issues that remain are viewing angles and blooming due to the fact that there are less LEDs for backlight than pixels.

I believe that LED backlighting technology and improved local dimming algorithms is the future of LCD TVs. The sad thing is if Panasonic does not buck up, plasma technology might find it difficult to catch up.
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I wonder if they still using the cheaper white LED solution or the RGB ones on this new TV?
ar188
post Sep 17 2009, 11:23 AM

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QUOTE(squall_12 @ Sep 17 2009, 10:17 AM)
if i am not wrong samsung always had use white LED solution as is cheaper and performance wise compare to RGB ones different not light day and night...
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cheaper yes...

performance, RGB is better..

also white LEDs are not as stable over time.. they age faster and the color changes..

of coz, if got local dimming that might prolong the LEDS since not every white LED is seeing 100% duty factor when TV turned on..
ar188
post Sep 17 2009, 06:09 PM

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QUOTE(de_lasoul @ Sep 17 2009, 05:43 PM)
White LEDs quality depends on the chip, design & packaging. Aging also depends on these conditions as well. LEDs may look like a simple product, but there are a lot of consideration when it is design. Considerations like cost, chip supplier, thermal managements, etc.....

As for the colour change, it is merely because of the lens the LED are packaged with. Nowadays, top LED makers such and Philips, Osram & Cree use silicone mold as lens. These silicones will not change the colour or fade.

In summary, it depends on the TV manufacturer whether which LEDs supplier they use. Samsung uses their own manufactured LED but the chip comes from another supplier. Same as LG.

Sony uses Philips and Osram as of now. Prices from Philips and Osram may be a bit premium at the moment.
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halo.. I sell LEDs la..

the fact you mention in bold means you don't know how they make white LED.. biggrin.gif LOL..
ar188
post Sep 17 2009, 06:16 PM

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QUOTE(de_lasoul @ Sep 17 2009, 06:10 PM)
Bro, I am selling the machine and process that makes LEDs

We have the full solution as well..... OS, Philips, CREE, u name it.. we have our systems there.....
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well the white LEDs are based on Blue Dice usually made of InGaN with yellow phosphor coating above it.. over time, due to aging/degradation of the phospor, the white light emitted would shift is hue due to this..

what has that got to do with the lens???
ar188
post Sep 17 2009, 06:54 PM

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QUOTE(de_lasoul @ Sep 17 2009, 06:29 PM)
what u are saying is true indeed, that is why there is a new technology of attaching special yellow phosphor (hardened condition) on the premium LEDs. This process is still kept within certain manufacturer to compete and is patented.

2 key objective of the above -

1. Hardened yellow phosphor can also sorted now to ensure the colour bining matches with the chips to place into the display with similar output bins. Again these are only for premium products due to premium price.

2. Hardened yellow phosphor are only done by certain subsidiary of the particular LED manufacturer, this is to ensure this process remains a internal proprietary. Hence the formula will also improve aging and degradation of the formula.....Only 2x companies does this now.

Over the time, LED manufacturers will strive to improve their weaknesses. Many new process had been discussed about, execution is the bottleneck.
Primitive lens attached process will cause the colour change of the package (or even fade)  as well after some time. So the silicone mold technology comes in supposingly to solve this.
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well maybe you are more privileged to some manufacturing trade secrets so thanks for the input on these, but that don't change the fact that RGB is still the better way to produce white color albeit at higher costs.. which was what the initial comments was about..
not to mention, blue+yellow = white doesn't fill up the whole Color gamut very well.. RGBs are better.

as for the comment in bold, the initial bin sorting will not be able to solve aging/time dependent factors on yellow phosphor aging characteristic due to usage over time.. the fact that phosphor ages unevenly across the LCD panel at different LED locations due to different operating times, means there is no way of controlling the aging evenly.....

also as for ultra bright LEDs in both these categories, the other half of the equation is the electronic drive circuits.. that's very important in preserving/prolonging the life and performance of the LEds.. so each TV manufacturer probably have their solutions for these..


Added on September 17, 2009, 6:56 pm
QUOTE(Lone*Wolf @ Sep 17 2009, 06:43 PM)
Both engineering sifus showing koli, whoever wins, i also lespect ...  notworthy.gif  notworthy.gif
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nothing to argue or win la..

having technical discusson ma..

me more on the final end product application of LED side, taiko de_lasoul is manufacturing of LEDS side.. just different viewpoints to share.. smile.gif

This post has been edited by ar188: Sep 17 2009, 06:56 PM
ar188
post Sep 17 2009, 07:57 PM

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QUOTE(Vinceyang @ Sep 17 2009, 07:31 PM)
alternatively, can see how far is the pee's travel distanse or how high is the pee's altitude  tongue.gif  tongue.gif
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dun end up touching each other like Milk.. biggrin.gif
ar188
post Sep 17 2009, 08:39 PM

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QUOTE(Vinceyang @ Sep 17 2009, 08:33 PM)
R we still comparing about the LCD or something else..?  tongue.gif  tongue.gif  tongue.gif
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you tell me.. laugh.gif suddenly ot topic to seeing who can pancut further..
ar188
post Sep 18 2009, 10:02 AM

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QUOTE(de_lasoul @ Sep 17 2009, 11:48 PM)

Back to main topic, it is true RGB provides better colour gamut.... but may be a bit pricey compared to While LEDs

BTW, what kind of LEDs u are selling? brands?
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am selling several brands depend on customer request for their project, mostly taiwanese/HK/china..
but as you mention, due to patent issues, some of them are using dies from cree/toyoda gosei etc.. internal details are defined by the manufacturer, so we just follow their P/N as per customer's request in the BOM list of the project.

anyway as for as high brightness LEDs are concern, one thing I learn is that the drive circuits with superior voltage regulation are equally as important as the LEDs them self.. due to the fragile state of these InGaN devices it's important to keep the junction temperature down and also avoid over driving them/over current, longevity depends on the drive circuits other than internal LED chip construction..



This post has been edited by ar188: Sep 18 2009, 10:27 AM
ar188
post Sep 18 2009, 10:23 AM

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ops.. die!


Added on September 18, 2009, 10:25 am
QUOTE(ronnt88 @ Sep 18 2009, 10:05 AM)

it's RM12k for 55" vs Sony's RM26k for 50" .... apples & oranges, but the fact that you even compared it to the RM26k tv already says much about the Sammy tv.. damn freaking good for it's price. Thanks tongue.gif
if it's 26k price here, as per your recommendation, you can always buy from USA.. biggrin.gif laugh.gif


This post has been edited by ar188: Sep 18 2009, 10:25 AM
ar188
post Sep 18 2009, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(sunnyK @ Sep 18 2009, 11:09 AM)
i don't really care how the LED TV will further evolve or improve in performance or other enhancement  from now till next year , the fact is , it will still remain expensive

good quality/performance of plasma models from panny and sammy and even from LG are becoming very affordable  for BIG screen sizes.( 50" to 63" )

infact there had been reports stating that sales for plasma this year have improve from previous years.

i am all for plasma and long may it live and prosper
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strange hor... last time (2-3years ago) many people know plasma looks better but the ones in the market has low resolution and those fullHD version costs 30-40% more than LCD equivalent..

now tables are turned, plasma FHD is cheaper than LED backlight LCD TVs (non local dimming ones summore) and some people still want the more expensive model..

so I think just human nature.. we want the more expensive version (which ever that may be) but hope somehow to get it cheaper than the market price.. biggrin.gif
ar188
post Sep 18 2009, 11:47 AM

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QUOTE(ronnt88 @ Sep 18 2009, 10:54 AM)
'wah lah' is the latest malaysian french fusion? whistling.gif
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what's french fusion meaning?

take kawan's things and use first? biggrin.gif


Added on September 18, 2009, 11:48 am
QUOTE(chewkl @ Sep 18 2009, 10:36 AM)
Meaning if buy PS50B650 today, tomorrow it will be obsolete because of these LED TVs... sweat.gif
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I think it'll be obsolete by their own new plasma range in 9-12months time.. biggrin.gif

(I mean look at the A950 flagship)

This post has been edited by ar188: Sep 18 2009, 11:48 AM
ar188
post Sep 18 2009, 11:51 AM

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QUOTE(Lone*Wolf @ Sep 18 2009, 11:51 AM)
wah so secret, i so jealous ....
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why you want to join 3some? tongue.gif
ar188
post Sep 18 2009, 11:59 AM

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QUOTE(anfieldude @ Sep 18 2009, 11:52 AM)
But the A950 can still pretty much stand up against the competition even now, no?

Its still pretty darned good. Most if not all of the electronics seem to be obsoleted in a year nowadays, we cannot chase the technology jet.

Buy now, enjoy it while u can, but don't believe that it will last forever. If u r one who suffers buyers remorse each time a new model comes up, then don't buy high end electronics and always go for the low end ones.
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yes, it's still pretty good (have to put agreeing words, cos ronn watching laugh.gif )

what I meant , cos at the moment, it's not flagship anymore mah..

as for your 2nd statement, it's not about just buying high end electronics , it's about optimizing.. things like SVS or submersive, worth to shell out.. they don't go outdated in 1years time.. the specs alone can remain high end for several years (look at elemental designs's sub which is out for 2+ years already still top end)... or even power amps like XPA-5 etc.. some rotel power amps after 5years still good value to be used in current multichannel AV system setups..
so see what kind of electronics lor.. if BDP, I would stick to low-mid end.. why pay 3k or LX what ever pioneer.. biggrin.gif (for me la, just my 2sen..)


Added on September 18, 2009, 12:00 pm
QUOTE(Lone*Wolf @ Sep 18 2009, 11:53 AM)
u want to make it foursome?  brows.gif
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don't you like to do it alone? biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by ar188: Sep 18 2009, 12:00 PM
ar188
post Sep 18 2009, 12:23 PM

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what model plasma?
ar188
post Sep 18 2009, 07:42 PM

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user posted image

wow this the next sonata..
ar188
post Sep 18 2009, 07:51 PM

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QUOTE(Lone*Wolf @ Sep 18 2009, 07:46 PM)
Steering wheel like inspired by Star Trek!
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got stop start button also..

I;m getting the white accord soon.. but this is way better.. die.. cry.gif
ar188
post Sep 18 2009, 07:56 PM

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QUOTE(Lone*Wolf @ Sep 18 2009, 07:54 PM)
Look at it this way la - Hyundai - No. Second. Hand. Value.

Alamak, ni dah jagi Fast and Furious Thread ....  sweat.gif
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koreans + design + technology mah.. still on topic.. biggrin.gif

but you rite la.. this part I dem scared.. want to sell also 1/2 price in 2-3years.. biggrin.gif
ar188
post Sep 18 2009, 08:00 PM

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QUOTE(ronnt88 @ Sep 18 2009, 07:58 PM)
y get accord? Volkswagen Passat CC just launched.. damn good car, keyless, highend electronics, frameless windows, 200hp some more brows.gif
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if same price range, I dun mind.. biggrin.gif alas it's not..

well elite ronn with 5 figure subwoofer should consider the CC then... more suit your profile! thumbup.gif
ar188
post Sep 18 2009, 11:15 PM

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QUOTE(Lone*Wolf @ Sep 18 2009, 10:34 PM)
wonder whats yr night and wet dreams then ...  hmm.gif
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jpop/kpop/JAV idol maybe? biggrin.gif

 

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